--- Log opened Thu Jul 04 00:00:03 2002
--- Day changed Thu Jul 04 2002
00:00 < fake> th: yes.
00:00 < th> great
00:00 < fake> they have some documents on that issue on their site.
00:00 < th> at what cost?
00:00 < fake> cost? o_O?
00:00 < th> price
00:01 < fake> th: you get a prize if you get it working - 200.000 $ (!)
00:01 < fake> th: they still have problems cheating with MS's signed-code-only thing
00:01 < th> i mean what do i have to pay for a xbox?
00:02 < fake> 199 USD
00:02 < th> ouhm
00:02 < th> that's too low-end
00:02 < fake> eh?
00:02 < th> must be a bad nvidia GPU
00:02 < th> inside
00:02 < fake> th: yes.
00:03 < fake> th: M$ pays about 350 USD / unit for production.
00:04 < th> i don't need that GPU if < $600
00:04 < huebi> (a Xbox Linux cluster in the Top 500...)
00:04 < th> could be cheap hardware...
00:04 < th> cause of the MS marketing, hmm?
00:05 < Ge0rG> yeah, they want to get rich with selling games
00:05 < Ge0rG> reason enough to buy an xbox and run linux on it ;)
00:05 < th> yea
00:05 < fake> Ge0rG: better to _not_ buy an XBox.
00:05 < fake> hurts them even more ;-)
00:06 < fake> buy a ps2 ;-)
00:06 < fake> fsck intel.
00:06 < th> what about ps2 rendering engine?
00:06 < th> it's not nvidia is it?
00:07 < Ge0rG> fake: if I buy an xbox and run linux on it, MS loses 150USD, if some windows user moron buys it with some games, MS might get profit out of it ;)
00:07 < Ge0rG> and the krups CPU+GPU isn't fast enough to display divx...
00:07 < huebi> Ge0rG: ACK
00:08 < Ge0rG> but the xbox fan is told to be very loud
00:08 < fake> Ge0rG: the windows-user-moron will buy it even if you do so, too.
00:09 < fake> milchmaedchenrechnung
00:09 < fake> th: it's even better than nvidia.
00:09 < fake> Ge0rG: i am working on that divx issue ;-)
00:09 < Ge0rG> fake: if the production capacity of MS is limited, and all boxes are sold out, I can harm them by buying it.
00:10 < Ge0rG> in every other case they'd be glad to get at least 199$.
00:10 < fake> Ge0rG: you can always hamr them more by not giving them money at all.
00:11 < Ge0rG> fake: if I get the last box, they get less money from me than frome joe average game console buyer.
00:11 < fake> Ge0rG: if someone buys it, maybe they produce another one?
00:12 < fake> the only right step if you take it that way is to _always_ buy _all_ xboxes.
00:12 < Ge0rG> fake: I'm not as rich as bill gates ,)
00:12 < fake> Ge0rG: oh. i forgot ;-)
00:14 < Ge0rG> anyway, the xbox is a cheap piece of computer hardware... it would perfectly fit in any geek's weird hardware collection ,)
00:15 < fake> Ge0rG: if you like intel, ACK.
00:15 < Ge0rG> you mean the company or x86?
00:17 < th> fake: but i'm afraid i wouldn't find glx support for ps2 hardware
00:18 < fake> Ge0rG: x86
00:18 < fake> th: maybe.... ;-)
00:19 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB42527.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
00:19 < Ge0rG> fake: at least I have more x86 boxes than all the others added
00:21 -!- chrisime [~chrisime@pD9E50145.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
00:22 < huebi> 3x Intel, 2x AMD, 2x Sparc64, 4 xSparc, 1x Alpha ;-)
00:22 < huebi> 1 of the 3 Intel is only used.
00:23 < Ge0rG> 2x intel, 2x amd, 2x ppc, 1x sparc
00:24 < chrisime> hoi
00:24 < huebi> hi chrisime 
00:27 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
00:27 < Mike1> re
00:27 < huebi> hi Mike1 
00:27 < Mike1> hi andreas
00:28 * huebi is fixing the kernel build in 1.5 ;-))
00:29 < fake> 4xMIPS, 1xPA-RISC, 4xINTEL, 2xSPARC, 1xDRAGON ;-) 
00:30 < Ge0rG> oh.. I forgot 1xmips in my pocket ,)
00:31 < fake> i am missing ppc, sparc64, mips64, alpha, s390 and m86k :(
00:32 < fake> and arm.
00:34 < Ge0rG> anyone measured how much electrical power the krups needs?
00:34 < huebi> I forgot the the Strong ARM in the mobile phone..
00:35 < huebi> Ge0rG: No, but at the most 30W
00:35 < Ge0rG> is the mobile phone running an open operating system? ;)
00:35 < huebi> Ge0rG: No.
00:35 < Ge0rG> huebi: then it doesn't count ;)
00:36 < huebi> s390 <- doesn't count, too then
00:36 < Mike1> esden you here?
00:40 < fake> Mike1: he is asleep.
00:40 < fake> (i assume ;)
00:41 * fake is doing one more final-test-for-today
00:42 < Mike1> fake: thank you
00:43 < Ge0rG> theres a win95 driver for iga 1682 ;)
00:47 < fake> ugh.
00:47 < fake> the igafb is even more fsckd up than i thought
00:48 < fake> aw well. i'll dig deeper tomorrow.
00:48 < Ge0rG> there are qnx drivers for the iga..
00:48 < fake> Ge0rG: it's a VGA compatible card
00:49 < Ge0rG> it was listed under "supported chipsets" in the phroton info... http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:rSKsey9vOK0C:www.qnx.com/products/photon/photon.html+iga+1682+qnx&hl=de&ie=UTF-8
00:51 < fake> Ge0rG: is there QNX for Sparc?
00:51 < huebi> th: How can we get the Changelog of the cvs online?
00:52 < Ge0rG> fake: the correct question should be: is there a way to get qnx sources? ;)
00:52 < fake> Ge0rG: The answer is yes, but expensive ;-))
00:52 * fake is going to bed
00:52 < fake> school tomorrow *argh*
00:52 < Ge0rG> wasn't there some open source issue with qnx?
00:52 < Ge0rG> ok, bye fake :)
00:52 < fake> s,tomorrow,today,
00:53 < fake> good thing about school: i'll have enough time for igafb.c tomorrow afternoon ;-)
00:53 < fake> sleep well *
00:53 < huebi> gute nacht fake 
00:55 < Ge0rG> maybe xfree has support for the iga?
00:55 < Mike1> n8 fake
00:55 < Mike1> see you
00:56 * owl is leaving you right now.
00:56 < owl> bye. g8
00:56 < huebi> cu owl 
00:56 -!- owl [~mail-spam@B51cd.pppool.de] has quit ("almost dead and started compiling kernel.")
00:58 < Ge0rG> mhm... iga1682 is said to be supported by the xfree 3.3.6 svga server
01:00 < huebi> esden: Please test your patches ;>
01:01 < huebi> esden: In linux.conf ROCKCFG_ARCH was allways 'alpha'
01:02 < huebi> esden: if [ $ROCKCFG_ARCH = "alpha" ]; then is different from if [ $ROCKCFG_ARCH="alpha" ]; then
01:28 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB42527.ipt.aol.com] has quit ()
01:37 < th> huebi: i'll do that if you wish
01:37 < huebi> th: That would be great. 
01:38 < huebi> th: I often work with it to see what did happen in the last time.
01:38 < huebi> the time line of the Changelog is very usefull.
01:39 < huebi> th: let the changelog start at 2002-03-01 00:00 please
01:39 < th> should it be called ChangeLog or changelog or Changelog?
01:40 < huebi> changelog is what I prefere.
01:41 < th> ouhm
01:41 < th> that is not a good idea...
01:42 < huebi> why?
01:42 < th> i wanted to commit changelog after each commit
01:42 < th> got it?
01:42 < huebi> jo ;-)))
01:42 < th> grmpf
01:43 < huebi> world:~$ uptime
01:43 < huebi>   1:43am  up 49 days,  8:06,  8 users,  load average: 1.39, 0.43, 0.15
01:43 < th> changelog is being created
01:43 < th> well. we do not need a revision history of changelog, do we?
01:44 < huebi> th: no, we don't. That would be redundand
01:44 < th> and almost recursive ;)
01:48 < huebi> hmmm.
01:49 < huebi> echo "Make clean... "
01:49 < huebi>         echo "MAKE is $MAKE"
01:49 < huebi>         $MAKE -j1 clean
01:49 < huebi> I get:
01:49 < huebi> Make clean... 
01:49 < huebi> MAKE is make -j16
01:49 < huebi> [...]
01:49 < huebi> make -j16 -C Documentation/DocBook clean
01:49 < huebi> [...]
01:50 < huebi> Why do I not get: 'make -j16 -j1 -C Documentation/DocBook clean' ?
01:51 < huebi> Any ideas?
01:51 < th> hmm
01:51 < th> well i think you really get make -j16 -j1
01:52 < th> hmm
01:52 < th> no
01:52 < th> strange
01:52 < th> all:
01:52 < th>         make -j5 -j6 nothing
01:52 < th> nothing:
01:52 < th>         echo nop
01:52 < th> this just prints make -j5 -j6 nothing
01:53 < huebi> th: make -j16 -C Documentation/DocBook clean <- is from the log file...
01:54 < th> shouldn't it be $(MAKE) instead of $MAKE?
01:54 < SMP> you are looking at the wrong lines
01:54 < huebi> testing...
01:55 < huebi> SMP: Which are the right ones?
01:55 < SMP> what does $MAKE look like in Documentation/DocBook/Makefiles ?
01:55 < SMP>  Documentation/DocBook/Makefile 
01:56 < huebi> $(MAKE)
01:57 < huebi> hmm.
01:59 < SMP> which package is this from?
02:00 < huebi> linux
02:01 < huebi> it's in linux.conf.
02:02 < huebi> $MAKE clean ; $MAKE ARCH=$lx_cpu oldconfig <- both must be make -j1
02:03 < huebi> The easiest woulde be 'make -j1'
02:03 < SMP> I see
02:04 < huebi> But my question is how to get 'make -j16 -j1' when $MAKE is 'make -j16'
02:04 < SMP> try $MAKE MAKE="$MAKE -j1" clean
02:06 < huebi> testing...
02:07 < huebi> make -j16 -j1 -C Documentation/DocBook clean <- it works ;-))
02:07 < huebi> make[1]: warning: -jN forced in submake: disabling jobserver mode. <- This starts too many jobs
02:07 < huebi> erm
02:08 < SMP> huh?
02:08 < huebi> If I get this message then every submake must be a make -jn and with N=16 load goes up to ~350 and 8192 filehandles are not enough...
02:09 < huebi> s/jn/jN/
02:09 < SMP> so did this fix the problem you were having?
02:09 < th> huebi: beim 1.5.16 stoert immer noch ein CVS dir beim install
02:10 < SMP> *SEUFZ*
02:10 < huebi> th: Jo wurde vorhin gefixed..
02:10 < huebi> SMP: testing
02:10 < th> ok. ich hoffe ich kann das ignorieren, oder fehlt mir irgendwas?
02:10 < huebi> th: kannst du ruhig ignorieren.
02:11 < th> huebi: werden die dirs in zukunft geloescht?
02:11 < huebi> base-config/install-disks/install-disks.conf:
02:11 < huebi> echo -n "Delete all the CVS directories...\n"
02:11 < huebi>         rm -rvf $root/usr/lib/install-disk/CVS
02:11 < huebi>         rm -rvf $root/usr/lib/install-disk/*/CVS
02:11 * SMP haelt sich Augen und Ohren zu
02:12 < huebi> SMP: So schlimm? ;-)
02:18 < SMP> just to explain the make problem a bit; the variable MAKE is exported from the shell's environment to the environment of its child process 'make'. make takes this variable to substitute the $MAKE references it sees in the Makefiles. what we need to do is override this value for one make invocation, but for all child make processes. make takes variables from the environment and from the commandline; and those from the commandline override the ones from  en
02:23 < Ge0rG> mhm... having three versions of tar with three different chars for piping through bzip2 in the lan is confusing and depressing
02:24 -!- chrisime [~chrisime@pD9E50145.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("sleep")
02:24 < SMP> Ge0rG: take it as a chance to get used to using bzcat ;>
02:25 < Ge0rG> SMP: which is another syntax to do the same thing.
02:26 < SMP> but it works everywhere ;)
02:26 < Ge0rG> will I get into big trouble if I build the vanilla kernel on the krups for the krups?
02:26 < SMP> no.
02:26 < SMP> but don't hold your breath :>
02:29 < huebi> Ge0rG: should need 1 - 2h
02:29 < Ge0rG> huebi: over 100mbit nfs?
02:30 < Ge0rG> thats pretty ok, I'll start it tomorrow before going away ;)
02:30 < SMP> NFSv3 I'd hope..
02:30 < huebi> nfs is not that interesting. The CPU is the bottle neck
02:31 < SMP> and make sure to use tmpfs on /tmp ..
02:31 < SMP> 64MB RAM should be enough to spare some for that
02:32 < Ge0rG> I've got pretty everything (kernel, proll, rootfs) from th, which seems to work pretty good
02:32 * SMP thinks if it might be faster without -pipe
02:34 < Ge0rG> is tmpfs an alias for ramfs?
02:34 < SMP> no.
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02:36 < Ge0rG> whoops.
02:37 < Ge0rG> yet another irssi crash.
02:52 < th> huebi: warum kommen die CVS dirs ueberhaupt erst zustande? die gehoeren doch spaetestens nach dem austaren durch find -type d -name CVS -exec rm -rf {} \; geloesct
02:54 < huebi> th: Weil ich direkt im cvs tree baue, damit ich meine aenderungen nur an einer Stelle, naemlich meinem build tree, machen muss. Sonst vergesse ich immer wieder mal eine Aenderung und loesche die dannn.
02:54 < th> ahja
02:54 < th> dann solltest du vorm taren aber alles kopieren und CVS loeschen
02:58 < huebi>  find -type d -name CVS -exec rm -rf {} \; <- hat nicht einwandfrei funktioniert. 
02:58 < huebi> http://www.cvs.rocklinux.de/cvs/viewcvs.cgi/rock-1.5/base-config/install-disks/install-disks.conf
03:00 < th> du solltest vllt dein find irgendwo starten... find $root ....
03:00 * SMP faellt in Ohnmacht
03:03 < huebi> th: Das war schon ok: find $root/usr/lib/install-disk -type d -name CVS -exec rm -rf {} \;
03:04 < huebi> hat gemeint es koenne irgendwelche directories nicht finden...
03:04 < huebi> rm -rvf $root/usr/lib/install-disk/CVS
03:04 < huebi> rm -rvf $root/usr/lib/install-disk/*/CVS
03:05 < huebi> sind dann der Ersatz dafuer geworden.
03:06 < th> hmm
03:07 < huebi> cp -av `/bin/ls -d $base/misc/install-disk/* | grep -v CVS` $root/usr/lib/install-disk <- kopiert natuerlich bis auf $root/usr/lib/install-disk/CVS alle tiefer liegenden CVs mit.
03:07 < th> das seh ich auch grad
03:07 < th> in welcher version war find noch drin?
03:08 < SMP> find $where -depth usw.
03:09 < th> ich glaube cvs export ist fuer sowas da ;)
03:09 < huebi> th: garnicht. Ich habe nach den Versuchen einfach direkt rm genommen. Das ist auch viel einfacher zu verstehen
03:09 < SMP> th: mein Reden :-|
03:10 < huebi> th: cvs ex geht nicht, da ich direckt aus dem tree meine commits mache.
03:11 < huebi> So von wegen nur einem gueltige Datensatz und einfachster Handhabung.
03:12 < th> ja ich versteh das ja schon
03:12 < th> frage mich nur gerade ob das nicht auch geht ohne, dass die CVS dinger mit ins tar muessen
03:12 < th> kannst du nicht beim tar machen einfach alle CVS ignorieren?
03:13 < SMP> um ein srctar zu machen kann man ohne Probleme einen export tree machen
03:13 < huebi> th: Jo, da bin ich noch am suchen und Anpassen, das _alle_ CVS nicht in der fertigen Distribution (source und ISO) sind.
03:13 < huebi> SMP: ACK
03:13 < SMP> mehr wollen wir ja gar nicht :-O
03:14 < huebi> SMP: aber nur wenn der cvs tree garantiert synchron mit dem aktuellen buid ist.
03:14 < th> oehm doch
03:14 < huebi> +l
03:15 < th> kaum zu glauben dieser PC hat doch tatsaechlich nur doppeltsoviel ram wie videoram
03:16 < huebi> th: Was stellst du dir denn noch vor.
03:16 < huebi> ?
03:16 < th> huebi: entweder bin ich verwirrt...
03:17 < th> oehm ja
03:17 < th> schon ok ;)
03:17 < th> sorry
03:17 -!- hoho [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:18 < th> ich geh besser schlafen
03:18 < huebi> Ich benutze cvs um meine Aenderungen zu verwalten. Der build ist dann meine einzige gueltige Datenquelle, die zwar meistens, aber halt nicht immer mit dem cvs uebereinstimmt. 
03:20 < th> huebi: changelog is jetz drin
03:20 < huebi> Ich habe am Anfang meiner cvs Benutzung einen vom build tree (ohne CVS Verzeichnisse) separaten cvs tree gehabt. Da war mir der Datenverlust einfach zu hoch.
03:20 < huebi> th wo denn? ;-)) *freu*
03:20 < th> huebi: rock-1.5/changelog
03:21 < huebi> jo habs schon, klasse
03:21 < th> huebi: wodurch kamen die datenverluste?
03:22 < th> huebi: du musst einfach alles nur in deinem cvs-tree aendern. und brauchst ein script was diesen tree ohne CVS dirs in deinen build-tree kopiert
03:23 < th> huebi: die changelog kannst du uebrigens nicht mittagggen
03:23 < th> huebi: bzw. du kannst das tun. aber das tag verschwindet beim naechsten com
03:30 < th> ich move mich mal ins bett
03:30 < th> n8 dann
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03:44 -!- Ge0rG [georg@op-co.de] has quit ("Irssi - the client of smart and beautiful people")
03:54 < huebi> re
03:54 < huebi> Die Teledummies haben mal wieder an der Leitung rumgespielt.
04:10 < huebi> good night.
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06:52 < fake> mornin!
06:52 * fake swinging himself awake to "Walk like an egyptan" (on the radio) ;)
06:57 < fake> i need a ppc binary of rock... anyone?
06:57 < fake> s,binary,binary iso,
07:07 < SMP> I have a 1.3.11 CD
07:09 < fake> SMP: somewhere reachable?
07:09 < fake> (must be pretty outdated?)
07:11 * fake taking the notebook with kernel sources along to school (igafb.c waiting ;-)
07:13 * fake is off to school.
07:13 < fake> cya
07:46 < huebi> moin
08:56 < [anders]> moin
08:56 < [anders]> wie gehts?
08:56 < huebi> hi [anders] 
08:56 < huebi> fine, thank you.
08:56 < huebi> and you?
08:56 < [anders]> hi there huebi.. :)
08:57 < [anders]> Not bad thanks.. Trying to get dRock 1.6.0 to download all its source tar-balls..
08:57 < [anders]> I am about to give up on it..
08:57 < [anders]> Might as well go for a 1.7 snap the way things are looking..
09:00 < [anders]> surely not _that_ many things could have changed from when rxr released dRock 1.6.0 until today..
09:02 < huebi> [anders]: allmost nothing, I suppose ;-)
09:02 < [anders]> huebi: so why does half the stuff return a 404 ? :)
09:03 < huebi> The download locations are changing to often to have all the links working.
09:03 < [anders]> ah well, going to try 1.5.16 instead then.. :)
09:03 < huebi> I work on a new mirrorlocation for the whole rocklinux.
09:03 < [anders]> huebi: yeah, but 50% breaking in two days?
09:04 < huebi> [anders]: No, the links are then not testet directly before the release.
09:05 < huebi> It needs at least 2 days to get all broken links working.
09:05 < [anders]> . o O (I really didn't want to hear that....)
09:05 < huebi> And rene now has a girlfriend. So please expect too much ;-)
09:05 < [anders]> Okay, I might have a look at dRock 1.6.0 later (much later) and get the broken links working again..
09:06 < huebi> If you need some packages, all of 1.5 are here:
09:06 * SMP has 1.7.0-DEV sources all complete ;-}
09:06 < huebi> ftp://rocklinux.dyndns.org/rock-pkg-1.5/
09:07 < huebi> moin SMP ;-)
09:07 < SMP> jo Moin
09:08 < [anders]> huebi: /me fired off ./scripts/Download -all
09:08 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
09:08 < [anders]> re SMP
09:08 < [anders]> re bluefire 
09:08 < huebi> moin bluefire 
09:08 < [anders]> SMP: do you mean you have a 1.7.0-snap that downloads everything and everything compiles?
09:08 < [anders]> (without errors..)
09:08 < bluefire> Moin
09:09 < SMP> no, I am mirroring all source packages that a current 1.7.0-DEV requires
09:09 < [anders]> SMP: ah.. okay.. :)
09:09 < SMP> and 1.5, too. but not up to date
09:10 * SMP also has a 'make build' running in prep. for 'make release' on OpenBSD
09:10 < huebi> SMP: I can update that all
09:10 < SMP> no hunting for sources there ;->
09:11 < [anders]> SMP/huebi: I might do that if I start building things on a more regular basis...
09:11 < [anders]> I got the disk-space, so... why not? :)
09:12 < SMP> yeah and I got the bandwidth ;-]
09:12 < SMP> huebi: I'm moving things to a cvs co tree at sources.rocklinux.de/rock-1.5/ - still need to finish that
09:13 < [anders]> SMP: you got a T1 or something?
09:13 < huebi> SMP: My idea is to get all on world and then get all mirrored to ftp://linux.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de
09:13 -!- hackbard [~hackbard@faim.Physik.Uni-Augsburg.DE] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:13 < SMP> [anders]: actually 22 times the bandwidth of a T1 ;-}
09:14 < SMP> huebi: go ahead :)
09:14 < huebi> SMP: ok
09:15 < [anders]> SMP: that makes it a T2 or a T3 then.. :)~~~
09:16 < [anders]> SMP: you are not paying for that out of your own pocket are you?
09:16 < SMP> [anders]: it's called an E3
09:16 < SMP> [anders]: well, sort of. just that I run a business with it ;)
09:17 < [anders]> E3 ? not heard about that one before.. I assume it is an european thing?
09:17 < [anders]> SMP: hehehe
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09:29 < huebi> *LOOL* 6h ago I started to install SUNs recommended patch cluster for Slooowwwlaris 7 on the IPX. It's still running.
09:29 < [anders]> SMP: does your src repository house the tbz2's required for dRock as well?
09:29 < [anders]> huebi: ouch!
09:31 < huebi> [anders]: Yes, hardware from 1992.. It was used as CAD-Workstation till late 1998
09:32 < huebi> SMP: Did you do anything on an anonymous cvspserver for 1.5?
09:33 < huebi> Ripclaw asked me for that yesterday.
09:35 < SMP> no, unfortunately not.
09:36 < SMP> I'd rather use anoncvs with ssh than pserver
09:36 < huebi> That's also a good idea. 
09:37 < SMP> I should be able to dig up some docs on that and look into it on the weekend
09:38 < SMP> [anders]: I don't explicitly mirror dRock sources. but I guess there's quite some overlap between 1.5 / 1.7 and dRock
09:38 < SMP> the IPX is from '92. yuck..
09:39 < SMP> quite a beast for '92 ;>
09:42 < huebi> SMP: ugly and stinking...
09:43 < huebi> and now with OBP update in the nvram ;-)
09:43 < SMP> well..
09:44 < SMP> '92.. PCs were stuck with 80386 then IIRC?
09:45 < huebi> jo, and in 1993 you got 13MB RAM for 500 EUR
09:45 < [anders]> SMP: ok.. I am downloading for 1.5.16 right this minute.. (saturating my poor DSL link..)
09:46 < huebi> [anders]: Why don't you use the line at work? ;-)
09:46 < SMP> oh. no.
09:46 < SMP> Intel introduced the Pentium in '93
09:47 < SMP> so an IPX must have been slow even at its own time
09:48 < huebi> Yes, but i was told when I begun to get interested in UNIX hardware SUN is fast.
09:49 < SMP> well.. 'Sun is fast' makes about as much sense as 'Volkswagen are fast'
09:50 < huebi> The only thing about SUN where I was not disapointed at all was the the sentense "SUN is expencive." *g*
09:51 < huebi> SMP: The old VW BUS Type2 was very fast if you needed a very good handling in 1993 *g*
09:52 < [anders]> huebi: and that isn't necessarily a good thing.. (re: Sun is expensive)
09:52 < huebi> only the Corrado was better in handling at that time at VW
09:55 * SMP trying to figure out when he got his first PC
09:55 < huebi> [anders]: ACK. There are only a very view areas where a SUN could be the chaepest solution. But I really found none.
09:55 < SMP> hmm, must have been in '93
09:56 < SMP> (I was 15 then)
09:58 < SMP> my first paid-for software development started '95.
09:59 < SMP> (I know that exactly, because I still maintain that code and this year is in a comment at the top ;) )
09:59 < SMP> only two years..? *shrug*
09:59 < SMP> my memory doesn't serve me well ;-|
10:00 < huebi> SMP: Could it be that you learn very fast? ;-)
10:00 < SMP> well I had a C=64 before
10:00 < SMP> but still... yes ;)
10:00 < huebi> I dreamed about a C64
10:01 < SMP> I still dream about a C=64!
10:02 < SMP> I had at least as much fun with it as with todays PlayStations
10:02 < SMP> (I don't own a Console, though)
10:03 < huebi> I started 2 generations before C=64 with a Commodore 4016 at school in 1980 when I was 14
10:03 < SMP> yeah! you have a advantage there..
10:03 < huebi> No one year before with a Z80
10:03 < SMP> you're older..
10:04 < SMP> and so you started with all that uberleet hardware
10:04 < huebi> SMP: But I didnot stick close to the computer stuff ;-)
10:05 < huebi> with 17 I switched to IBM and Amdahl mainframes.
10:05 * SMP wished he'd been on the Internet 10 years earlier
10:05 < SMP> huebi! uebercool hardware again ;)
10:06 < huebi> (Attention. This punchcard reader will be disabled next year...) Nice sign I saw ;-))
10:07 < huebi> But the 400Hz noise was not very nice. Old but fast TTL technologie..
10:07 < huebi> next year = 1988 or 1989
10:07 < SMP> one day I'll get myself a DecMate III. PDP-8 compatible! ;)
10:16 < huebi> In Novembre 1998 I suddently stoped everything with computers when I recogniced that I stuck in front of a terminal for 13h without any pause and without noticing the 13h. I just mentioned it's dark and had to mention that there must been a light day between the dark morning and the dark evening. The room had windows.
10:16 < huebi> In 1990 I started to work as a mechanic in the race area
10:18 < huebi> in 1995 I got my first own PC
10:19 < huebi> in 1997 I learned in only 2 weeks to program a CNC-Milling machine. 1 week later my former boss went for 3 weeks to the USA and I built the first long lasting aluminum conrods.
10:25 < SMP> 13 hours? then you're a hell of a lot more geeky than me ;>
10:35 < [anders]> I started off with a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k when I was 12.. so that was in 1985..
10:36 < [anders]> I bought an Amiga 500 in 1989...
10:37 < [anders]> That Amiga lasted me well, updated with HDD and a 68030 VXL accelerator card..
10:37 < [anders]> My first PC was bought in 1997 and fairly soon Linux went on to it..
10:37 < [anders]> That was in May, 1997.. And it was RedHat 4.1 that I installed..
10:39 < SMP> ohh!
10:40 < SMP> I bought myself a used Sinclair ZX when I visited GB
10:40 < SMP> but it's broken now :-{
10:41 < huebi> I got an Acorn A3000 in I think 1993.
10:41 < huebi> The first time I used a GUI
10:42 < [anders]> SMP: what is it that is broken? Is it just a few keys that doesn't work?
10:43 < SMP> hmm, let me think
10:44 < SMP> I had a problem with some keys not working, yes
10:44 < SMP> but I think it doesn't even "boot" anymore now
10:49 < esden> morning @ all
10:49 < esden> huebi: ich habe den patch getestet
10:52 < esden> huebi: naechstes mal werde ich versuchen die patches auch auf intel zu testen ... 
10:53 < esden> even more work >_<
10:53 < huebi> esden: Moin ;-))
10:54 < huebi> esden: der Patch hat auf alpha garantiert immer funktioniert *g*
10:54 < esden> huebi: ja stimmt
10:54 < esden> deshalb sage ich ja ... 
10:54 < esden> aber ich weiss nicht wie ich es am vernuenftigsten machen soll
10:55 < huebi> esden: Es ist halb so schlimm. ich habe jetzt einfach mal noch ein paar debugausgaben eingebaut.
10:55 < huebi> export LANG=en_GB :-)
10:55 < esden> huebi: ok ... that is good
10:55 < esden> huebi: perhups we should include a configuration variable debug mode or so
10:56 < huebi> in a few minutes I test linux again...
10:57 < [anders]> SMP: if it is just the keys, then there is a thin 'film' under the rubber keys, that needs replacing..
10:57 < [anders]> re esden 
10:59 < SMP> [anders]: yeah I remember that thing. where does one get one of those still?
11:13 < huebi> 7h30 for the patch cluster... hehe
11:20 < [anders]> SMP: I have no idea.. I'd google it and see if there is anyone still holding spares for it..
11:27 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB67E55.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
11:33 -!- Ge0rG [georg@op-co.de] has joined #rocklinux
11:33 < Ge0rG> hi
11:33 < huebi> hi Ge0rG 
11:35 < esden> hi Ge0rG 
11:35 < Ge0rG> mal kernel-compile auf der krups anschmeissen :)
11:36 < huebi> Ge0rG: 11:13 < huebi> 7h30 for the patch cluster... hehe
11:36 < huebi> Ge0rG: Menthale Geduldsuebung ;-))
11:36 < Ge0rG> huebi: ich hab den ganzen tag zeit ;)
11:37 < huebi> Die Krups bis ihr der Strom abgeschaltet wird..
11:37 < huebi> Ge0rG: So lange durfte es trotzdem nicht dauern.
11:37 * Ge0rG hat seit 565 tagen keinen stromausfall gehabt :)
11:43 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit ("leaving")
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11:48 < SMP> phew, ok..
11:49 < SMP> anyone need a freshly buit OPENBSD_3_1 with some pf updates? ;)
11:49 < SMP> built even
11:50 < huebi> SMP: as ISO?
11:50 < SMP> hehehe
11:50 < SMP> -rw-------   1 stefanp  ftp      67921920 Jul  4 11:45 openbsd-3.1.tar
11:51 < SMP> ok, no xfree and no src.tar.gz or srcsys.tar.gz
11:51 < SMP> but otherwise complete
12:03 -!- reutter [reutter@athalle12.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:03 < reutter> Hi Esden!
12:15 -!- reutter [reutter@athalle12.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ("reutter has no reason")
12:35 < huebi> now I've got a xinerama mousepad. 42x19cm *g*
12:36 < Ge0rG> hehe
12:36 < [anders]> riiight... isn't there an option to Download -all to pull the source archives from a selected server?
12:36 < huebi> [anders]: jo
12:37 < [anders]> Didn't see it in the BUILD documentation though.. :-/
12:37 < huebi> -mirror ftp://bla/foo/rocklinux/...
12:37 < [anders]> huebi: cheers.. :)
12:38 < huebi> invoke Download w/o any args.
12:38 < [anders]> SMP got the ftp:// path to your repository for ROCK 1.5.16 source balls? :)
12:38 < [anders]> huebi: ah, ok. :)
12:39 < [anders]> SMP: *poke*
12:48 < fake> re.
12:48 < huebi> fake: hi
12:48 < huebi> fake: how was your coding?
12:48 < [anders]> re fake
12:49 < Ge0rG> heya fake... already coded a new igafb? ;)
12:49 * [anders] waves a cattleprod in SMP's direction...
12:53 < fake> i had a look at the modedb
12:54 < fake> it's an interface for fb-drivers to automagically select resolution
12:54 < fake> i will now try something else (hardwiring the mode first)
12:54 < fake> and then i'll patch igafb.c to use modedb
12:55 < fake> then you can choose just about any video mode on the append line ala video=igafb:1280x1024-8@80
12:55 < fake> (which is not possible now)
12:55 < huebi> fake: sounds good.
12:56 < fake> huebi: if i really get it to work yes. but i'm lame, so i'll need some time ;-)
12:58 < huebi> fake: Did you enable the kernel lamer mode (CONFIG_I_AM_LAME) though?
12:58 < fake> huebi: *DOUH*! Now i know why it doesn't work!
12:58 < huebi> hihihihihihi
12:58 < fake> i need CONFIG_I_AM_EVEN_MORE_LAME
13:00 < huebi> fake: Sorry, not supported on 32 Bit platforms
13:01 < fake> damn it...
13:02 < fake> CONFIG_I_AM_A_LAME_SUNNYBOY?
13:02 < fake> it's SMP. 2x32 = 64 ;)
13:02 < huebi> "Windows kann alles wegen der 32 Bit" - "Wenn ich 32 Bit getrunken habe, denke ich auch immer ich kann alles."
13:02 * fake will auf die LinuxWorld Expo am M$ stand randale machen
13:03 < fake> huebi: kannst du application an LinuxKongress schreiben?
13:03 * fake is in lack of a browser
13:04 < huebi> fake: Willst du wirklich ins Kloster *grins*
13:04 < fake> huebi: Ganz bestimmt! ;-)
13:05 * fake brb - test...
13:05 < th> moin
13:06 < Ge0rG> hi th
13:06 < huebi> hi th 
13:06 < [anders]> re th
13:08 < SMP> [anders]: uhm, it's not on the ftp server. but you can browse through http://sources.rocklinux.de/
13:09 < [anders]> SMP: can I pass that as an arg to ./scripts/Download ?
13:09 < SMP> but it's only up to 1.5.13
13:09 < [anders]> ah..
13:09 < fake> hm.. still no got :-/
13:10 < SMP> [anders]: you can pass the correct path on that server as the mirror to Download, yes
13:12 < [anders]> is there a mirror for 1.5.16 somewhere/
13:12 < [anders]> s;/;?;
13:12 < huebi> SMP: can you mount ftp://download.rocklinux.de/1.5/1.5.16/rock-src-1.5.16.iso somewhere loopback?
13:12 < SMP> sure
13:13 < [anders]> huebi: good idea! :)
13:13 < [anders]> huebi: Or I can just get the ISO myself..
13:13 < [anders]> *bop*
13:13 * [anders] is stooopid...
13:14 < SMP> it's mounted anyway
13:14 < fake> hm...
13:14 < fake> what does a simple "{ \n code\n }" in C mean? simply nothing?
13:14 < fake> code-block surrdongis without further meaning?
13:15 < fake> surroundings
13:15 < th> fake: new name-space ;)
13:15 < Ge0rG> heya, make vmlinux in something about 1h 30m
13:15 < SMP> name-space? in C?
13:15 < huebi> Ge0rG: kool.
13:15 < fake> th: oh.
13:15 < th> SMP: yea ;)
13:15 < huebi> I expected 1-2h yesterday
13:15 < th> SMP: you can declare variables in there...
13:16 < SMP> amazing. I only know scoping with { } from PERL ;>
13:16 < th> hehe
13:16 < [anders]> right.. 58kB/s and ETA on the ISO is 2h45min...
13:16 < th> SMP: btw, biste morgen im noc? den ganzen tag?
13:16 < Ge0rG> ok, now making modules.. *:)
13:16 < huebi> [anders]: ftp://download.rocklinux.de/1.5/1.5.16/rock-src-1.5.16/ <- your mirror ;-)
13:17 < [anders]> huebi: hmm.. in two minds now.. do I get the ISO or do I download the packages first?
13:18 * [anders] flips a coin...
13:18 < [anders]> download packages it is..
13:19 < SMP> th: ich geh bald ins Bett und werd irgendwann morgen wahnsinnig frueh wieder hier sein. also werde ich morgen eher nur bis Nachmittag da sein. ich kann es aber im Zweifel einrichten, dass auf jeden Fall jemand anderer da ist
13:19 < th> SMP: ich weiss noch nicht wann ich auftauche, aber wohl auf keinen fall vor 1300h
13:20 < huebi> [anders]: yOU CAN CREATE VERY EASY an ISO with the sources if you got them all.
13:21 < huebi> ./scripts/Create-CD
13:21 < [anders]> huebi: da.. and since I had some of the packages already...
13:22 < SMP> th: ja, kein Problem. falls ich nicht da bin, ist jemand anderer da und weiss bescheid
13:24 < SMP> hmm. off, bed.
13:24 < huebi> sleep well SMP ;-)
13:25 < [anders]> SMP: nighty nighty..
13:28 < th> gn8 smp
13:36 < fake> *argh* now i deleted igafb.c instead of igafb.o
13:36 < fake> *arghl
13:37 -!- huebi is now known as Oberlehrer_huebi
13:37 < Ge0rG> make modules: real    19m32.747s
13:37 < Oberlehrer_huebi> fake: get back your well proven backup ;>
13:37 < Oberlehrer_huebi> nick huebi
13:38 -!- Oberlehrer_huebi is now known as huebi
13:38 < Ge0rG> how can I convert the elf kernel to a.out?
13:38 < huebi> with elf2aout
13:39 < Ge0rG> freshmeat doesn't know it, my boxes neither
13:40 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@IP-213157009221.dialin.heagmedianet.de] has joined #rocklinux
13:40 < dreamind> hi
13:40 < dreamind> hi huebi
13:40 < dreamind> ;)
13:41 < hackbard> georg, i have written an extension, mom
13:42 * Ge0rG isn't using rock on his boxes (yet).
13:42 < hackbard> http://www.hackdaworld.dyndns.org/download/projects/rock/ext/elftoaout/
13:42 < hackbard> oh, isee
13:42 < huebi> so erst mal wieder wech.. einkaufen.
13:42 < th> Ge0rG: gimme that kernel
13:42 < hackbard> but u can get the download location and build instrictions from the .ext :-)
13:43 < Ge0rG> th: as soon as I've proved that it boots
13:43 < Ge0rG> hackbard: already working on it :)
13:44 < th> hackbard: could you contribute that extension to rock-1.5 repository?
13:45 < th> == 13:45:00 =[e]=> Building ext package elftoaout [2.2 20011017].
13:45 < Ge0rG> make: warning:  Clock skew detected.  Your build may be incomplete.
13:45 < Ge0rG> mhm
13:45 < th> == 13:45:06 07/04/02 =[e]=> Finished building package elftoaout.
13:45 < Ge0rG> and cs4231.o still has unresolved deps to ebus_chain
13:48 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
13:49 < snyke> huh
13:49 < Ge0rG> extern struct linux_ebus                *ebus_chain;
13:51 < Ge0rG> mhm... doing a full grep over the source would be better on the nfs server
13:51 < th> hehe
13:52 < Ge0rG> ok, now the strange things start..
13:52 < Ge0rG> ./include/asm-sparc/ebus.h:extern struct linux_ebus             *ebus_chain;
13:53 < Ge0rG> oh.. stop.
13:53 < Ge0rG> its defined in arch/sparc/kernel/ebus.c
13:54 < Ge0rG> if I compile cs4231 into kernel the problem might just go away ;)
13:58 < th> perhaps it's just not in the EXPORT_SYMBOL list...
13:58 < Ge0rG> yeah
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14:08 -!- thalerim [~tobrit@p50812981.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:08 < Ge0rG> mhm... 10mins for make dep... that hurts
14:08 < thalerim> moin.
14:09 < fake> hi thalerim 
14:09 < thalerim> hi fake
14:11 < thalerim> huebi: i did some snapshots of how your console will look if you apply the framebuffer patch: http://freebits.de/trash/ {manpage,vim,prompt}.png
14:35 < fake> hm :-/
14:37 < th> man man man gibts denn keine haendler, die mir innerhalb von 60 minuten ein angebot fuer nen PC zukommen lassen koennen?
14:37 < th> "spaetestens morgen, mit glueck noch heute..." wo leben die denn.
14:37 < thalerim> "Ich sah dich vorübergehen und bevor ich etwas sagen konnte, wurdest du vor meinen Augen vom Lastwagen ÜBERFAHREN!" 
14:37 < Ge0rG> th: www.dell.de zum zusammenklicken ;)
14:38 < Ge0rG> bei gericom geht das auch
14:38 < th> Ge0rG: naja teste ich die mal noch... ich hoffe ich finde meinen ansprechpartner
14:40 < fake> th: was haettens denn gern?
14:41 < thalerim> die seite im Topic, ist das jetzt ne verarsche oder wo sind die flash's ??
14:42 < fake> thalerim: gestern warn sie noch da
14:42 < thalerim> :-(
14:43 < thalerim> die werden doch clientmäßig abgespielt, kannst du mal gucken ob du'se im Cache hast?
14:43 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:44 < fake> thalerim: nope. aber google vielleicht ;)
14:45 < thalerim> und nach was soll ich suchen? Ich kenn den Dateinamen doch gar nicht
14:46 < fake> thalerim: nach der seite ?
14:46 < thalerim> mh?
14:48 < thalerim> fake: wie meinst du das?
14:50 < fake> thalerim +"IBM" +"eserver" +"linux" +"fun"
14:50 < fake> und dann auf "Im Cache" oder so gehen
14:52 < Ge0rG> Wrong use of 'disable_irq' in '.text.exit' section. It can be only used in .text, .text.init, .fixup and __ksymtab
14:52 < Ge0rG> make[1]: *** [btfix.s] Error 1
14:52 < Ge0rG> make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/boot'
14:52 < Ge0rG> mhm... strange
14:52 < Ge0rG> last time I compiled the kernel there was no such error
14:54 < fake> Ge0rG: did you use -j > 1 ?
14:54 < Ge0rG> no
14:54 < fake> hm :-/
14:54 < fake> just try again.
14:55 < Ge0rG> it was my second attempt already
14:55 < fake> Ge0rG: what linux do you build on? debian?
14:55 < Ge0rG> I could make clean and wait several hours for the compile to finish
14:55 < Ge0rG> fake: I'm building on the krups-rock I got from th
14:55 < fake> hm...
14:56 < fake> which kernel version?
14:56 < Ge0rG> 2.4.18 vanilla
14:56 < fake> (why don't you cross build??)
14:56 < fake> simply get the binutils and gcc sources
14:57 < fake> and configure with --host=i586-pc-linux-gnu --target=sparc-unknown-linux-gnu
14:58 < fake> should increase the try/error speed
14:58 < fake> ;-)
14:59 < Ge0rG> crossbuilding leads to the dark side of the force... it is faster, easier and very tempting...
14:59 < Ge0rG> ok, the real reason is: I wanted to get it running with minimal effort, and letting the krups build in the background doesn't need much time 
15:01 -!- thalerim [~tobrit@p50812981.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sphos")
15:02 < fake> oh, SMP, th: gmp -m /dev/misc/ps2aux -t ps2 -> works
15:02 < fake> *LOL* @Ge0rG
15:02 < fake> the dark side... ;-)))
15:03 < th> fake: s,gmp,gpm, ?
15:03 < fake> th: yes.
15:03 < th> cool
15:03 < fake> *waves_around_with_mousecursor*
15:03 < th> BUT I WANT 75HZ FB!
15:03 < fake> th: i'm at it... i'm at it...
15:03 < th> fake: thanks *calming*
15:09 < fake> why is there no crti.o in my build dir? *grml*
15:10 < hackbard> Ge0rG: lol :)
15:10 < hackbard> does krups have ide?
15:11 < th> hackbard: it is diskless
15:11 < hackbard> okay
15:11 < hackbard> then you have to comment the paranoia swap partition check
15:12 < hackbard> or the better way, find out how to use a swap partiton via NBD
15:13 < hackbard> that would interest me too. i never get a kernel compiled on my java supporting NBD :(
15:13 < th> how do i configure a nbd?
15:13 < [anders]> afaik yes..
15:13 < [anders]> erk, wrong server/window
15:13 < hackbard> well, i dont know that! thats why i said you could find it out :-))
15:14 < Ge0rG>      NBD                                              Nucleotide Binding Domain
15:14 < fake> aaaah... coffee is ready.
15:14 < fake> Network Block Device Ge0rG 
15:14 < [anders]> fake: an excellent idea.. espresso time I think..
15:15 < hackbard>  /usr/src/linux/Documentation/nbd.txt
15:15 < hackbard> maybe there is some usefull stuff in it ...
15:16 < Ge0rG> last time I've put coffeepowder and water into the krups the power supply dropped out *:)
15:18 -!- capchaos [~capchaos@p50809C89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:18 < th>    over TCP. It turned out not to be true - swapping over TCP now works
15:18 < th>    and seems to be deadlock-free, but it requires heavy patches into
15:18 < th>    Linux's network layer.
15:20 < Ge0rG> there is a nfs-swap patch for 2.4.18
15:42 * fake noticed today that school is absolute nonsense....
15:42 -!- rxr [~rene@port-212-202-170-222.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:42 < fake> we wrote a test, and a friend of mine wrote "Sorry, i have no clue about this." as an answer and got all points possible.
15:44 -!- rxr [~rene@port-213-20-128-37.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has joined #rocklinux
15:44 < fake> re rxr
15:55 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
16:00 < huebi> re
16:01 < fake> reee huebi
16:01 * fake building alsa cs4231 driver
16:02 < huebi> fake: koool!
16:03 < fake> huebi: gpm -m /dev/misc/ps2aux -t ps2 works, btw ;-)
16:04 < huebi> fake: even kooler ;-))
16:04 < fake> huebi: but igafb is still going nuts with 16bit
16:07 < fake> ../alsa-kernel/core/sound_oss.c:28: #error "Enable the OSS soundcore multiplexer (CONFIG_SOUND) in the kernel."
16:07 < fake> *urgh*
16:09 < th> fake: 8bit would be enough for me ;) but 60Hz is terrible
16:12 < fake> th: i could achieve that easier. i'll try as soon as my crosscompiler works...
16:13 < th> fake: great. thanks
16:13 < fake> #if defined(CONFIG_PCI) && defined(CONFIG_SPARC64)
16:13 < fake> #define EB4231_SUPPORT
16:13 < fake> #include <asm/ebus.h>
16:13 < fake> #include <asm/pbm.h>
16:13 < fake> #endif
16:13 < fake> no wonder the driver has an unresolved symbol...
16:15 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB67E55.ipt.aol.com] has quit ()
16:16 < fake> an employee of Sony Corp. just mailed to linux-mips...
16:17 < fake> nice. they're not like M$ after all. They _help_ ;-)
16:17 < huebi> fake: because only their boss does not know what they do.
16:18 < fake> huebi: i don't think so...
16:19 < fake> sony is cool, M$ sucks ;-)
16:20 < huebi> Sony produces these new iBook killer CDs...
16:20 -!- Ge0rG is now known as ge0rg
16:22 -!- hoho [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
16:23 < fake> huebi: i saw an iPod today... it is _so_ _damn_ sw33t!
16:23 -!- hoho is now known as _hoho_
16:24 < huebi> fake: jo, there is some nice hardware outside...
16:26 < th> ipod?
16:27 < th> http://www.ipod.com/?
16:27 < fake> th: the small portable harddisk /firwire) with integraded mp3-player in ultra-noble design
16:28 < th> ok
16:28 < th> $$?
16:29 < th> tuxable?
16:29 < fake> th: i don't know
16:31 < huebi> ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.0.2/src/ - mal wieder die Saugung machen...
16:31 < th> fake: ppc?
16:31 < fake> th: i have no clue what is inside
16:31 < th> 5GB at $399  10GB at $499
16:31 < fake> that scales!
16:31 < fake> ;-)
16:32 < th> ;>
16:33 < th> i've absolutely no experience with apple
16:33 < fake> me neither
16:34 < huebi> dreamind who was here some hours ago is iBook fan and runs debian on it.
16:34 < th> cool
16:34 < th> so it's tuxable
16:35 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:35 < th> well they all look sexy.
16:35 < fake> th: iBook != iPod
16:35 < th> fake: yea i know. i'm thinking of apple in general
16:35 -!- reutter [reutter@athalle13.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:35 < fake> yeah, apple is tuxable ;-)
16:36 < th> but i would lack a few mouse-buttons.
16:36 < fake> hi DHR
16:36 < reutter> hi
16:36 < th> hi reutter
16:36 -!- hoho [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
16:41 -!- _hoho_ [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:41 -!- hoho is now known as h0h0
16:58 < fake> hm... my machine is too sloooow.... *yawns*
17:05 < fake> ...
17:08 -!- reutter [reutter@athalle13.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ("reutter has no reason")
17:18 < fake> *ARGH*
17:18 < fake> i am tooo lame to compile a cross toolchain!
17:27 < huebi> wech... meeting holyolli
17:27 < fake> have fun!
17:29 < huebi> fake: thank you. ;-)
17:34 -!- Freak [freak@pD9530560.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:49 -!- Freak [freak@pD9530EC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
17:56 < [anders]> igen
17:56 < [anders]> oops
17:58 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has quit ("I don't care. I don't give a shit. Now Shut up.")
18:05 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
18:09 < fake> na endlich.... crosscompile laeuft
18:19 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
18:23 -!- owl [~mail-spam@B53a7.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
18:23 < owl> hi
18:36 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB7E4E8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
19:04 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:04 -!- h0h0 [~hoho@dhcp024-210-222-139.woh.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
19:09 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #rocklinux
19:09 < bluefire> re
19:10 < fake> damn.. i really shouldn't run my kitchen as an idle task >_<
19:11 < th> perhaps you should just be more idle?
19:18 < fake> th: idle_time/day = ( overall_time/day - time_working/day ) = ~- 2h
19:18 < th> hmm
19:33 < snyke> hm
19:33 < snyke> esden?
19:34 < fake> ugh... this is _ugly_
19:34 < fake> whenever i try to boot a cross-compiled kernel my Krups just resets
19:35 < fake> *cries* what should i do?
19:37 < snyke> shut down and drink jolt.
19:37 < snyke> :)
19:37 < fake> E_NOJOLT
19:37 < snyke> hm. drink coffee?
19:38 < fake> snyke: i have already
19:38 < snyke> k
19:38 < snyke> hm
19:38 < fake> snyke: some _real_ advice would be great, as this is _really_ getting on my nerves
19:39 < snyke> hm, or drink WaterJoe.
19:39 < snyke> I don't know how to fix your prob <--- too stupid
19:41 < fake> anyone else, maybe?
19:42 < snyke> yep-
19:42 < snyke> maybe.
19:54 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@pc19.rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:05 < fake> hm... i can't create executables with my cross cc
20:05 < fake> because it wants crt1.so
20:33 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB7E4E8.ipt.aol.com] has quit (K-lined)
20:47 -!- netcrow [netcrow@apollo.bingo-ev.de] has joined #rocklinux
20:47 < netcrow> hi
20:47 < owl> hi
20:56 -!- MrKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB403B3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
20:56 -!- MrKaibigan is now known as WKaibigan
20:57 -!- tsa [~tsa@p5082BECF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:57 < tsa> moin.
20:58 < owl> tach tsa
20:58 < tsa> hi owl
20:59 < fake> hi tsa
21:00 < tsa> hi fake
21:03 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ("°ShowDowN v12 PrO° since 1996: http://www.sci.fi/~showdown/")
21:06 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
21:06 < Mike1> Hi all
21:08 < tsa> hi Mike1
21:16 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACB403B3.ipt.aol.com] has quit ()
21:16 -!- netcrow [netcrow@apollo.bingo-ev.de] has quit ("Lost terminal")
21:25 * fake demand the --enable-gcj --yes-i-like-java --i-really-mean-it switches for gcc.
21:25 < fake> s,demand,demands,
21:26 < fake> who the hell needs gcj in a standard build?
21:27 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:31 * [anders] is getting ready to build ROCK 1.5.16
21:31 < Mike1> [anders]: have fun!!
21:35 < [anders]> Mike1: I will.. :)
21:36 < [anders]> Just found I had forgotten to make sure /usr/src/linux is the kernel in the rock build..
21:41 < [anders]> err.. getting an error...
21:45 < [anders]> ok.. fix for ROCK 1.5.16..
21:45 -!- uninvited [~uninvited@pD959043B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:45 < uninvited> Hi !
21:45 < Mike1> Hi uninvited
21:45 < uninvited> Hello !
21:45 < uninvited> Hell !
21:45 < Mike1> o
21:45 < [anders]> in base-archive, make a symlink from linux to linux-src
21:45 < [anders]> re uninvited 
21:46 < Mike1> [anders]: maybe you would like to contribute with a patch :)
21:46 < [anders]> Mike1: hehehe.. Once I get this thing to build, I will..
21:47 < [anders]> I have to get all the ext's to DL first..
21:47 < Mike1> [anders]: i am starting download in a few minutes
21:47 < Mike1> [anders]: some urls are broken thought did you fix them ? or how did you get the base sources?
21:48 < fake> hi uninvited !
21:49 < [anders]> Mike1: SMP loop-mounted the CD somewhere and I downloaded that way.. ;-)
21:50 < fake>  /lib/libc.so.6: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
21:50 < fake> who the hell told it to use /lib/libc6.so.6 ???
21:50 < Mike1> [anders]: http://download.rocklinux.de/1.5/1.5.16/rock-src-1.5.16.iso
21:50 < Mike1> that one?
21:51 < [anders]> Mike1: yeah..
21:51 < Mike1> hehe good 
21:51 < Mike1> i am going to fetch then now :)
21:52 < [anders]> ok.. bed-time... I'll leave this building.. Will check tomorrow how long it takes to build base+opt ROCK 1.5.16 on an XP1900+ with 512MB RAM.. :)
21:52 < Mike1> n8 [anders]
21:53 < uninvited> perl -MCPAN -e shell
21:54 < uninvited> argh
21:54 < fake> *ARGH**
21:55 < fake> *crying_again*
21:55 < fake> why must it be /lib/libc.so.6?
21:55 < fake> :_:
21:55 < Mike1> fake: what are you doing?
21:56 < fake> Mike1: trying to build a cross compiler....
21:56 < Mike1> oh i see
21:56 < uninvited> can someone help me with my locale settings ?
21:56 < fake> what does gcc do with .o files? it calls ld, right?
21:57 < uninvited> do i have to export LANGUAGE=de or LANGUAGE=german ?
21:57 < fake> uninvited: export LANG=de_DE
21:58 < fake> or export LC_ALL=de_DE
22:03 < uninvited> why =de_DE ?
22:05 < tsa> because de_CH exists, too..
22:05 < tsa> among others..
22:05 < fake> can't anybody give me a small hint?
22:05 < fake> i read about 5 cross-building howtos by now
22:06 < huebi> re
22:06 < huebi> fake: rxr should be able to help you.
22:06 < tsa> huhu huebi
22:06 < fake> rxr: ping URG
22:06 < uninvited> tsa> so i guess there is a de_AT too, but i don t get the explanation of de_DE ?!
22:06 < huebi> I'm too unexperienced for that.
22:06 < huebi> hi tsa ;-))
22:07 < tsa> hmm...
22:09 < fake> uninvited: German Language, German accent (ie. not swiss, not austrian)
22:09 < fake> uninvited: the second de, for exmplae, sets EUR as currency, whilst ch sets SFR
22:09 < uninvited> so there is a de_BY too ???
22:09 < uninvited> *G*
22:10 < fake> uninvited: as soon as you write one, yes ;-P
22:10 < uninvited> gries di, fehk ! *G*
22:10 < snyke> lol
22:10 < fake> log eini:
22:10 < fake> ruad
22:10 < fake> posswoad:
22:10 < fake> sterndalsterndalsterndalsternadel...
22:10 < uninvited> woiperdinger
22:11 < uninvited> fixluja
22:11 < fake> Servas! Geh shaug, do host a neie poscht!
22:11 < uninvited> mei san mir guad
22:13 < fake> libc.so: ASCII C program text
22:13 < fake> *DOUH*
22:14 < tsa> hehe
22:15 < huebi> uninvited: http://www.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/dalug/mailingliste/2002/4/msg00126.shtml
22:15 < huebi> uninvited: ist es das, was du suchst?
22:16 < fake> bringt auch nix... SO NE SCHEISSE HIAAA
22:17 < huebi> fake: willst du auf meiner Ultra 30 compilen?
22:18 < fake> sparc-unknown-linux-gnu-ranlib: libc-2.2.5.so: File format not recognized
22:18 < fake> huebi: nein. ich will das jetzt hinkriegen ;-)
22:18 < huebi> fake: Ok. Wie lange brauchst du?
22:19 < fake> ah... ok... .so files + ranlib = schwachsinn...
22:19 < fake> huebi: ? fuer was?
22:19 < huebi> 22:18 < fake> huebi: nein. ich will das jetzt hinkriegen ;-)
22:19 < fake> huebi: ich bin schon den ganzen tag dabei mir nen crosscompiler zu basteln.
22:19 < fake> wenn ich jetzt aufgebe war das alles umsonst
22:19 < fake> det seh isch ja net ein
22:20 < huebi> fake: du koenntest es verschieben.. ;-)
22:20 < fake> huebi: wozu?
22:20 < fake> liegt irgendwas wichtigeres an?
22:21 < huebi> Vielleicht ein schnelleres Ergebnis. Um zu sehen ob du nicht auf dem Woodway bist.
22:23 < fake> huebi: ich bekomme erst weitere ergebnisse wenn ich den cc fertig hab
22:23 < fake> hm... also -shared klappt
22:23 < fake> laesst sich aber auf der sparc nicht ausfuehren >_<
22:24 < uninvited> huebi> danke fuer den Link
22:24 < huebi> fake: deshalb die u30...
22:24 < huebi> uninvited: gern geschehen.
22:25 < fake> YIPPIEEEE!
22:25 < fake> DIE SCHEISSE FUNKTIONIERT!
22:26 < huebi> fake: glueckwunsch!!
22:26 < snyke> <-- glück wünscht
22:32 < huebi> th: Ping...
22:33 < huebi> th: Kannst du das changelog 2002-03-01 00h00 anfangen lassen. Dashalbiert die Groesse, denn es fallen die urspruenglichen ersten commits weg.
22:33 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACBA11C6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
22:34 -!- thalerim [~tobrit@pD9E49BCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:34 < huebi> hi thalerim ;-)
22:35 < thalerim> hi
22:35 < uninvited> huebi> bist du auch bei mathematik.tu-darmstadt ?
22:35 < huebi> nee, aber viel mit den Leuten aus der Dalug zu tun..
22:36 < thalerim> moin huebi 
22:36 < thalerim> Hattest mal hochgescrollt und bilder gesehen?
22:36 < huebi> thalerim: Jo, sieht klasse aus.
22:36 < thalerim> yup!
22:37 < thalerim> besonders cool bei ncurses programmen...
22:37 < uninvited> huebi> jetzt weiss ich zwar wo debian und suse ihr exports speichern, aber wo macht rock rein ?
22:37 < uninvited> /etc/profile ?
22:38 < thalerim> was sind exports?
22:38 < uninvited> naja ich meine Umgebungsvariablen.
22:39 < thalerim> nunja, /etc/profile iwird ausgewertet von ksh, (t)csh, bash und zsh
22:39 < thalerim> und ist damit der standardplatz
22:39 < uninvited> danke thalerim !
22:40 * uninvited is linux-beginner
22:40 < huebi> uninvited: wenn du gerade dabei bist:
22:40 < huebi> export HISTCONTROL=ignoredups
22:40 < huebi> export HISTFILESIZE=10000000
22:40 < huebi> export HISTSIZE=10000000
22:40 < huebi> ;-)
22:40 < huebi> man bash - so fuer die genaue Erklaerung
22:41 < uninvited> huebi> ist das fuer den Stapel bereits eingetippter Befehle ?
22:41 * fake testing new cross-built kernel...
22:41 < huebi> uninvited: exact.
22:41 < uninvited> kuhl. ich wusste es trotz beginner status :-)
22:42 < uninvited> Wenn ich nur nich so faul für "man"s wäre ;-)
22:42 -!- Basileus [~basileus@v90line197.dialup.kirov.ru] has joined #rocklinux
22:42 < uninvited> Dobr dan, Basileus
22:42 < huebi> uninvited: Welcome to the profi lamer liga ;-)))
22:42 < uninvited> Na gut... ;-)
22:43 < Basileus> Hi, you know russian?
22:44 < huebi> uninvited: But to be really lame you need to activate the "CONFIG_I_AM_LAME" option in your kernel.
22:44 < uninvited> Not very good but i can shout out a loud "VODKA, MY SWEET COMPANION!" when we re out for some drinks in a club or local bar !
22:44 < uninvited> huebi> looking forward it ;-)))
22:44 < Basileus> Same here
22:44 < uninvited> So lets keep up english language
22:45 < Basileus> What's your native language?
22:46 < uninvited> Oh i m speaking a few native languages: german, english, romanian...
22:46 < uninvited> ...currently doing hard word on bavarian ;-)
22:46 < Basileus> :-)
22:46 < huebi> uninvited: hehe
22:46 < Basileus> Linuxoid?
22:47 < huebi> uninvited: unlearnable.
22:48 < uninvited> linuxoid ? Hmmm, you re asking me this question and i m just living through a deja vu.
22:48 < fake> w00t! it works ;-)))
22:49 < uninvited> congrats, fake !
22:49 < Basileus> What do you mean?
22:49 < capchaos> Basileus: dobri den, kak dila? ;-)
22:49 < uninvited> basileus> i guess these rocklinux developers are 100% more linuxoid than me.
22:50 < fake> what is linux?
22:50 < uninvited> basileus> i just thought i lived through this situation (and your question) earlier in my life...
22:50 < Basileus> capchaos>Spasibo,horosho
22:50 < uninvited> fake> its an annagram to inuxl
22:50 < capchaos> Basileus: prikrasno *g
22:51 * uninvited just works out on some TOSCANELLO ROSSO
22:51 < uninvited> *hicks*
22:51 < Basileus> It's interesting. All the time some one greets me in russian
22:52 < fake> that remindes me of.... beer!
22:52 < uninvited> fake> get some...beer!
22:52 < fake> ph34r n0 b33r!
22:52 < uninvited> "Two beer or not two beer !" --- William Shakesbeer, Beermuda Islands
22:53 < fake> ph34r m4 l4ck 0f b33r!
22:53 < Basileus> Sorry need to go...
22:53 < uninvited> <l33t mode off>
22:53 < fake> cu Basileus 
22:54 < huebi> cu Basileus 
22:54 < capchaos> bye Basileus 
22:57 < uninvited> ciao Basileus
22:57 < tsa> cu Basileus
22:58 -!- Basileus [~basileus@v90line197.dialup.kirov.ru] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58 * fake now extracting 2.5.24...
23:06 < thalerim> 2.5.24 works fine here.. didn't make any trouble during and after compilation
23:06 < owl> and after reboot?
23:08 < thalerim> actually i meant this with ``after compilation´´ ;0)
23:08 < owl> i see ;) 
23:11 < thalerim> brb (getting something to drink)
23:13 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has left #rocklinux ("Client Exiting")
23:14 < thalerim> re
23:16 < freed> hi all
23:16 < fake> hm... i am really lame.... why can't i simply call make dep ?
23:18 < thalerim> 'cause you 're lame?
23:18 < uninvited> Okay, have a go. Farewell all !
23:18 < fake> bye uninvited !
23:18 < huebi> cu uninvited 
23:18 < thalerim> get a life!
23:18 * uninvited : BAILOUT !
23:18 -!- uninvited [~uninvited@pD959043B.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #rocklinux ()
23:19 < thalerim> apropos "Get a Life" - Zum Abschied sag ich hier eigentlich nur noch "'n schönes Lebensabend noch" - das kommt immer saugeil an *g*
23:19 < thalerim> s,schönes,schönen,
23:19 -!- ge0rg is now known as Ge0rG
23:26 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
23:26 < Mike1> re
23:26 < huebi> re Mike1 
23:26 < Ge0rG> re
23:26 < Mike1> Hi Andreas :)
23:28 < Ge0rG> hmmm... after 'make clean' on the krups kernel it still doesn't compile through... seems to depend on the cs4231 driver
23:29 < Ge0rG> objdump -x vmlinux.o | ./btfixupprep > btfix.s
23:29 < Ge0rG> Wrong use of 'disable_irq' in '.text.exit' section. It can be only used in .text, .text.init, .fixup and __ksymtab
23:29 < Ge0rG> make[1]: *** [btfix.s] Error 1
23:29 < fake> Ge0rG: vanilla-2.4.18?
23:30 < Ge0rG> yeah
23:30 < fake> IIRC that's fixed in 2.4.19-rc1
23:30 < fake> it at least worked for me.
23:34 < thalerim> Does anyone know about majordomo? Is there a possiblity to mark you being away/in vacation, so you won't get any mails from the mailinglist until you are unmarked.
23:34 < thalerim> s,\.,?
23:35 < Ge0rG> unsubscribe and resubscribe?
23:35 < thalerim> that's too trivial :P
23:35 < fake> thalerim: .procmailrc all mail into /dev/null ?
23:36 < thalerim> a) owning only windows supporting modem, so using windows
23:37 < thalerim> b) that would receive alle the traffic anyway
23:37 < fake> a) buy a usual modem, b) unplug the modem when you leave
23:38 < fake> aw. you don't want your mailbox to fill up?
23:38 < thalerim> yes
23:38 < fake> use IMAP (if your ISP has it)
23:39 < thalerim> btw. it's a special modem there is no alternatives
23:39 < thalerim> there are
23:39 < thalerim> no telephone plug here and dsl splitter is too far away from this room
23:39 -!- snyke [~snyke@pD9502A77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ("°ShowDowN v12 PrO° since 1996: http://www.sci.fi/~showdown/")
23:40 < fake> aw... yeah i remember
23:40 < fake> go write a driver then ;-)
23:40 < thalerim> why should IMAP solve my problem?
23:40 < thalerim> yea, that's my personally aim :-)
23:40 < thalerim> the messages will be remain on the server
23:41 < thalerim> -be
23:41 < thalerim> if i don't get them
23:41 < fake> IMAP will let you choose which messages to download before actually downloading them
23:41 < thalerim> yes, i know
23:42 < fake> so your traffic is minimized to what is important
23:42 < thalerim> but the space on the server is limited and so it will probably fill up
23:42 < thalerim> i am talking about the lkml, ~200mails each day
23:43 < thalerim> i thought there coul be a possibility
23:43 < thalerim> could
23:43 < fake> aw. you have access to the server?
23:43 < thalerim> define access
23:43 < fake> shell/can install/use procmail?
23:44 < thalerim> it's a simple public POP and SMTP server as gmx...
23:44 < thalerim> nope
23:44 < thalerim> well i think i will unsubscribe
23:46 < fake> hm, if it has a web interface, maybe it allows you to define filters...
23:46 < fake> web.de has that ability IIRC
23:46 < thalerim> huh?
23:47 < thalerim> how can the pop server manage that?
23:47 < thalerim> brb
23:49 < thalerim> re
23:50 < fake> thalerim: i suppose they use procmail internally.
23:53 < thalerim> I know only about the possibility to mark you away, in meaning of automatically sending an answer to each mail sent to you
23:56 < fake> thalerim: would ne odd to answer every lkml-mail.... ;-)
23:56 < thalerim> 8-O
23:57 < thalerim> i presume I will be kicked ass by linus himself :P
23:57 < fake> that's an honor ;-)))
23:58 < thalerim> maybe for you :-P
--- Log closed Fri Jul 05 00:00:48 2002