--- Log opened Fri Aug 02 00:00:34 2002
--- Day changed Fri Aug 02 2002
00:06 < huebi> I found the error in qt. I need to compile it again ;(
00:06 < chrisime> takes ages
00:06 < chrisime> i hate qt
00:07 < chrisime> it took me about 1.5 hours to compile
00:07 < huebi> ~20min for one compile.
00:07 < chrisime> heh
00:08 < chrisime> 2000Ghz?
00:08 < chrisime> Mhz
00:08 < huebi> make -j4 on a dual Athlon XP1800+
00:08 < chrisime> ok
00:08 < huebi> 3066MHz *g*
00:08 < chrisime> dann wundert mich nix
00:08 < chrisime> naja
00:08 < chrisime> eher so 2.8 ghz in etwa
00:09 < huebi> chrisime: sonst wuerde ich das auch nicht machen.
00:09 < chrisime> qt bloat einfach mehr sag ich net ;-)
00:09 < chrisime> da brauch ich schon std um ueberhaupt damit arbeiten zu koennen ;-)
00:09 < chrisime> s/std/stunden
00:10 < huebi> ist schon weniger geworden. Vor ein paar wochen musste es noch 4x durchkopiliert werden.
00:10 < huebi> +m
00:11 < chrisime> naja
00:11 < chrisime> ich kriegs kotzen bei so grossen libs
00:12 < chrisime> das ding ist so ueberladen mit allem
00:12 < huebi> Das build system von qt ist fast so uebel, wie das von OpenOffice.
00:12 < chrisime> kein wunder
00:12 < chrisime> qt ist von ner firma
00:12 < chrisime> und openoffice auch
00:13 < chrisime> da lob ich mir die 'nichtkommerzielle' software
00:13 < huebi> apache *g*
00:13 < huebi> ?
00:13 < huebi> ACK
00:13 < chrisime> apache geht doch einfach
00:13 < chrisime> und v.a. sehr schnell
00:14 < huebi> c++ ist noch ausreichend schnell, java ist dann aber so richtiger Muell
00:15 < huebi> Javawebserver auf SUN SparcStation IPC: <400Byte/s
00:17 < chrisime> hm
00:18 < huebi> Java sucks
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00:21 < chrisime> naja
00:21 < chrisime> ich mags
00:22 < huebi> Fuer Pilepallekram geht das schon. Aber nicht wenn das Programm richtig viel Rechenleistung braucht.
00:23 < Mike1> huebi: i realized that you didnt aply the patches i sent
00:23 < Mike1> guess there weren't usefull
00:23 < chrisime> dafuer isses ja au net gedacht
00:23 < huebi> Mike1: They are for Gnome2. Don't they break anything in Gnome1?
00:23 < chrisime> da schreibs ich lieber in C++
00:24 < Mike1> huebi: not sure but anyways [anders] and i will be working around gnome2 on our private tree :)
00:26 < huebi> Mike1: I think it's better to leave Gnome1 as it is now in the official tree. When you and [anders] get Gnome2 to work fine then I switch to Gnome2 in the official tree.
00:26 < Mike1> huebi: yes i understand
00:28 * Mike1 leaving
00:28 < Mike1> see you tomorrow
00:28 < huebi> Mike1: after the hack meeting in Vienna, 1.5 should be stable enough to become 1.6.0. I still need very much error handling and documentation in it to get it from usable to stable.
00:29 < Mike1> huebi: i see
00:29 < Mike1> huebi: anyways we will do the best we can with gnome2 case you get stable first we will use it for 1.6.1 or so
00:29 < Mike1> anyways i need to go pick up my girl to go to the movies so i will talk to you later
00:30 < Mike1> bye
00:30 < huebi> Mike1: by
00:30 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has left #rocklinux ("Client Exiting")
00:30 < huebi> have fun
00:32 < huebi> chrisime: Es gibt leider sehr viele Programmierer, die von den Systemanforderungen ihrer Software nicht genug wissen. Und dann kommt halt oft Java zum einsatz, wo C++ noch zu langsam ist.
00:35 < chrisime> ?
00:36 < huebi> chrisime: Wenig Speicher und laangsaame CPU ;-) Also alte Hardware.
00:37 < huebi> oder Datenbankauswertungen im Javaprogramm anstatt in der Datenbanksoftware.
00:38 < chrisime> wo waere C++ zu langsam
00:38 < huebi> wenn geswaped wird
00:39 < chrisime> erm
00:39 < huebi> C++ Binaries sind IMHO oft groesser, als C bins.
00:42 < chrisime> jo
00:42 < chrisime> weiss
00:42 < chrisime> ich mach grad n C++ app
00:43 < chrisime> gfx package manager fuer debian
00:43 < chrisime> in C++
00:53 < h0h0> anyone here ever registered a domain with gandi.net?
00:54 < huebi> no
00:59 < th> huebi: you can't say that
00:59 < th> huebi: you can't know
00:59 < huebi> th: Why?
01:00 < th> huebi: you could just say "not me"
01:00 < huebi> th: ACK. I wanted to express that.
01:00 < th> huebi: i know ;)
01:04 * owl leaves you ...
01:04 < huebi> cu owl
01:04 * th follows.
01:04 < th> later folks
01:04 < huebi> cu th
01:04 < owl> cu. gn8
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01:29 < esden> re hi all
01:29 < esden> puhh
01:29 < esden> back home
01:39 < huebi> re hi esden
01:43 < esden> ahh still someone alife ... cool
01:43 < huebi> ;)
01:46 < chrisime> maaaa
01:46 < chrisime> n8 MaedelZ!
01:46 < huebi> cu chrisime
01:46 < chrisime> >:P
01:47 < esden> n8 chrisime 
01:48 < esden> humba humba
02:05 < huebi> esden: ?
02:06 < huebi> esden: how do I delete a line in afile containing this: 'strip "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/doc/html/"' ?
02:06 < huebi> with sed in a script?
02:07 < esden> hmm ... 
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02:07 < esden> let me see
02:07 < esden> you could make it with negative grep ...
02:08 < esden> this would be grep -v
02:08 < huebi> yes. Ok. But how can I do it with sed?
02:08 < esden> hmm ... 
02:09 < esden> i have to investigate that .. I do not know it by hard
02:10 < huebi> grep -v strip |grep -vgrep strip src/Makefile.orig |grep html
02:10 < huebi>         strip "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/usr/doc/html/"
02:10 < huebi>         strip "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/usr/doc/html/"
02:11 < huebi> that works...
02:12 < esden> hmm ... is it ok ... or do you need sed ?
02:12 < esden> should I search ... or you want leave it like that ... ?
02:13 < huebi> it's the src/Makefile after 'make' I have to change with qt.conf in /rock-linux/dist/rock-linux/src/qt-x11-free-3.0.5
02:14 < huebi> esden: please search.
02:14 < huebi> I must delete only these 2 lines. Then it compiles.
02:15 < huebi> The src/Makefile is generated by 'make'
02:28 < praenti> hi
02:28 < praenti> anybody here at the moment?
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02:35 < huebi> n8
02:37 < praenti> n8
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03:28 < esden> argh bin ich bloed
03:28 < esden> grr
03:41 < esden> n8 @ all
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07:38 < owl> hi
07:46 < [anders]> moin Sandra
07:46 < owl> stange. someone alive here in the morning ;P
07:47 < [anders]> huebi: found a problem with cpio.. the defs.patch doesn't apply to the updated archive. I just moved the patch out of the way and cpio compiled..
07:47 < [anders]> <- shower and breakfast = afk
08:10 < [anders]> owl: I have been up and and awake and chatting on here before 6am UK time before.. :)
08:15 < owl> [anders]: hehe. you didn't sleep, did you?
08:15 < owl> *this night
08:15 < [anders]> Oh yes..
08:16 < [anders]> went to bed about 23 last night..
08:16 < owl> *lol* now i know why you are able to get up so early :P
08:16 < [anders]> huebi: ifhp is now broken after the update. I'll see if I can troubleshoot it..
08:17 * owl went to bed at about 03:00 a.m. and had to get up at about 05:00 a.m. --> almost dead
08:17 < [anders]> owl: having had a daughter making me get up at 5:15 in the morning sort of helped me into this routine..
08:17 < owl> *g* ok, poor man :PPP
08:18 * owl is glad not to behave a man, boyfriend, children - whatever.
08:18 < [anders]> and also, if I leave for work now, I get parkingspaces within walking distance of the offices.. if I leave in an hour, I might have to order a taxi.. ;-)
08:18 < [anders]> takes me almost an hour getting in to work..
08:19 < [anders]> So, time to go to work.. back in an hour or so.. :)
08:19 < [anders]> <- afk - driving to work
08:19 < owl> at me about 2 hours (incl. waiting for trains)... and back another 2 hours... :-/
08:19 < owl> ok. i'm currently in office. so i'll leave #rocklinux now :)
08:20 < owl> cu later.... (maybe after midnight... don't know it yet. )
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08:32 < huebi> moin
08:42 < huebi> [anders]: the cpio package is fixed now (also in cvs)
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09:12 < [anders]> god morgon allihopa! :)
09:12 < [anders]> huebi: okay, I will pull CVS and patch it up.. :)
09:13 < huebi> moin [anders]
09:14 < huebi> I found the error in qt. Now I need some sed script in the qt.conf file.
09:15 < huebi> It must delete the 2 lines containing "strip" and "html"
09:15 < huebi> the whole pattern is: strip "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/usr/doc/html/"
09:22 < huebi> [anders]: ifhp should work too. there was no fix needed
09:25 < [anders]> huebi: will see what happens when I get to ifhp again.. :)
09:25 < [anders]> just started another stage 3 run.. after picking up patches from cvs..
09:27 * [anders] is thinking about the pattern and how it could be done..
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09:51 < bluefire> Hi
09:51 < huebi> moin bluefire
09:57 < huebi> 865433284 automake/automake-1.6.3.tar.bz2 ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/automake/ <- update
10:07 < [anders]> huebi: ifhp was complaining about ghostscript and something not being available or working.. if I come across it again, I'll let you know and I'll try and debug it.. Perhaps I should re-order things and have gs build before ifhp ?
10:08 < huebi> [anders]: her it works fine. But I don't know why.
10:09 < huebi> 3558093973 ifhp/ifhp-3.5.10.tgz ftp://ftp.lprng.com/pub/LPRng/ifhp/
10:11 < huebi> here its built after ghostscript.
10:12 < huebi> [anders]: You're right. We have to change the build order.
10:13 < [anders]> huebi: ok.. are you on the case?
10:13 < huebi> yes, I am
10:23 < huebi> [anders]: ghostscript has now a changed build order
10:28 < [anders]> huebi: great stuff.. I'll grab CVS after this meeting I have to attend now..
10:28 < [anders]> :-)
10:30 < huebi> [anders]: have fun - and coffee
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11:45 < huebi> sed -e '/-strip/p' -e '/strip/d' src/Makefile.orig >src/Makefile - seems to work. I'm testing now.
11:54 < [anders]> huebi: Ok.. I'll hold off on grabbing CVS until you've tested the qt fix and checked it in.. Got stuff I need to work on at work as well so.. ;-)
11:56 < huebi> [anders]: The test will be finished in about 15 minutes. If the first run of qt succiedes I check it in then imediatly.
11:56 < huebi> and dont wait for the finish of the second run.
11:57 < [anders]> huebi: also very little response so far on trying to drop privilegies in the build process.. I think I might try and implement the whole thing in the Build-Pkg script and if I get it to work, I'll send a patch to the mailing-list for review..
11:58 < huebi> [anders]: good idea
12:11 < huebi> YES! It works!
12:15 < huebi> and make $makeopt now works, too.
12:18 < huebi> [anders]: You can update your cvs. qt is fixed now.
12:21 < huebi> afk
12:22 < [anders]> huebi: excellent. I will do the work on Build-Pkg over the wekeend. It should be fairly straight forward and I will try and write the update to the documentation as well. In worst case I will have to make assumptions and let Build-Pkg add the user, build the package and then remove the user when the package has been built.
12:23 < huebi> [anders]: please put the documentation into Build-Pkg. Else it must be searched and is not in place where it's needed.
12:24 < huebi> have a look in qt.conf. I added much of explanation and debug output in that script.
12:26 < [anders]> huebi: ok, will do.. going afk for a while. trying to give value for money at work.. ;-)
12:26 * [anders] afk
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13:21 < [anders]> grumble.. no gv breaks.. need to build in order xfree86 (to get X11 headers) then gv and finally ifhp.. /me will look at build order and see what can be done..
13:21 < [anders]> s/no /now /
13:22 < [anders]> err.. gs, not gv
13:33 -!- plfiorini [~plfiorini@r-bo043-2-58.tin.it] has joined #rocklinux
13:43 < [anders]> hullo there plfiorini, how's things?
13:43 < plfiorini> hello [anders]
13:44 < plfiorini> uh i am tired
13:44 * [anders] is in trouble.. have run out of tea.. need to go fetch another cup.. :)
13:44 < plfiorini> ahah
13:44 < plfiorini> try coffe
13:44 < [anders]> plfiorini: join the club.. /me has been tired for the last few weeks..
13:44 < plfiorini> heh
13:44 < [anders]> plfiorini: already had a double espresso this morning.. Need to keep the coffee intake down a little..
13:44 < plfiorini> i need some vacations
13:45 * plfiorini drink 2 cups of coffe every day
13:45 < plfiorini> driks
13:46 < [anders]> I used to drink loads of coffee.. like 5-6 cups a day.. (espresso strength) and tea as well.. but that got problematic as I was getting dehydrated.. So now I drink tea mainly but top up with coffee as well..
13:47 < plfiorini> hhe good
13:50 < [anders]> I know I should be drinking about a liter and a half of watar as well, but that gets tedious when I have to go the loo about once every half hour.. :-/
13:52 < plfiorini> heh
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14:30 < armijn> re
14:46 < rolla> re
15:15 < [anders]> tjo fljt! huebi, are you around?
15:16 < [anders]> huebi: new set of patches uploaded, anders.patches.1.5.17.020802.tbz2, if you could take a look at them and if you agree with them, apply to the CVS tree..
15:17 < [anders]> re-ordering ghostscript and ifhp to be built right after xfree86 to get X11 includes and a patch to libpng makefile.patch
15:19 < praenti> hi
15:21 < [anders]> afternoon praenti.. :)
15:21 * praenti wants to have more time for rock. can anyone give me time?
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15:51 < esden> humba humba
15:52 < [anders]> 2.4.19-rc5-ac1 is now available.. just had a look for updates and there it was.. :)
15:55 * [anders] will try this kernel out later tonight on the laptop, and if that works well, it is time to try again on the Shuttle...
16:08 < esden> hmm ... who want's to port the patch from clifford to recent kernel's ?
16:08 < esden> yes I know always the one that asks
16:09 < esden> cu guys ... I move myself to bitz
16:22 * [anders] is building stuff both at home and at work.. 
16:24 * rolla is downloading gnome2 :)
16:25 < [anders]> rolla: Mike1 and I are working on getting Gnome2 ready for ROCK 1.6.1.. The idea is to have it in there for then..
16:27 < rolla> :)
16:27 < rolla> cool
16:28 < rolla> I don't have rock on my work box yet so when gnome2 is there and dRock is stable I'll have rock at work
16:28 < [anders]> the idea is to get 1.6.0 out a.s.a.p. and then follow up quite quickly with 1.6.1 with more updates and Gnome2 added.. (if I have understood things correctly..)
16:29 < [anders]> rolla: I am at work and I have had Rock on this laptop since I bought it.. (Rock 1.4.0, many packages updated)
16:30 < rolla> :) sweet
16:31 < rolla> I have rock on a box back in the lab to play with
16:35 < [anders]> rock 1.4.0 is starting to get a bit outdated...
16:36 < [anders]> It is time to upgrade.. but I will not upgrade until I have a spare hdd to put in the laptop to do the installs from.. then I can attach the old hdd via USB and pull things I need off of it that way..
16:37 < rolla> :)
16:38 < rolla> my laptop os the only windows box I have at woek
16:38 < rolla> s/woek/work/
16:41 < [anders]> there is a neat 60GB IBM 2.5" hdd, 5400rpm, disk that I have my eyes on.. That should be quite adequate for what I want.. :)
16:42 < rolla> I would think so :)
17:03 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
17:03 < Mike1> moin
17:17 < huebi> re MoeP! hi
17:17 < Mike1> hi huebi
17:17 < huebi> esden: huhu?
17:17 < huebi> hi Mike1
17:26 < th> [anders]: your laptop has usb 2.0?
17:28 < huebi> hi th
17:30 < th> hi huebi
17:30 < th> hi #
17:30 < huebi> th: how are you today?
17:31 < [anders]> th: no, afraid not..
17:31 < th> huebi: getting better. slowly :-/
17:31 < th> huebi: thx
17:32 < huebi> th: Very nice to hear that.
17:32 < [anders]> re Mike1
17:33 < th> huebi: i think i'm getting back my self control.
17:34 < huebi> one big change now works (at least it seams so) MAKE="$MAKE -j1" is now replaced with makeopt="$makeopy -j1". This solves the problem of too many make processes are spawned in submakes.
17:35 < [anders]> huebi: did you get the patches I uploaded?
17:35 < huebi> [anders]: Yes, I have them. I have a look at them now.
17:36 < [anders]> huebi: ok.. I had to reorder ghostscript and ifhp to be built after xfree86 as ghostscript required X11 includes..
17:40 * huebi applying patches...
17:45 < Mike1> god mordon [anders] :)
17:48 < [anders]> God morgon Mike1 :)
17:48 < Mike1> wie geht es ihnen?
17:49 < huebi> [anders]: Your patches are applied now.
17:54 * Mike1 working a little bit
17:54 * armijn expecting flames
17:55 < esden> hi armijn 
17:55 < esden> armijn: are you ready with the iso ?
17:56 < armijn> esden: downloaded it aaaaaaaaaaaaages ago
17:56 < esden> I said you that you should inform me when you are ready >_<
17:56 < armijn> ehr, ehr, ehr...ehr
17:56 < huebi> esden: Does the harddrive work in the alpha?
17:57 * armijn apologizes to esden
17:57 < armijn> esden: I'm sorry, I'm sorry :)
17:57 < armijn> ehr, :(
17:58 < armijn> esden: angry now?
17:58 < esden> armijn: yes a bit 
17:58 < esden> huebi: not tested yet ... too short on time currently
17:59 < armijn> esden: does it cost you anything, like money for diskspace or so?
17:59 < esden> armijn: the traffic on this box is payed by my club
17:59 < esden> when the box makes too much traffic the box will be shutdown
18:00 < esden> and that is very bad
18:00 < armijn> esden: yeah, sure, but nobody else downloaded it, right?
18:00 < esden> armijn: hope so
18:00 < armijn> well, you can delete it now...or whatever
18:00 < armijn> I hope you still love me...
18:01 < esden> I move it now back to my home
18:01 < armijn> but, after having read that mail I just sent out, I don't think anyone who uses ROCK loves me anymore...
18:01 < esden> armijn: urgh ... /me reading
18:03 < [anders]> huebi: okidoki.. I'll have a play later and see if I can come up with more patches.. ;-)
18:04 < [anders]> Mike1: I'll update the rsync tree later.. I have to raise a defect at work and that will take a while, then I have to drive home..
18:04 < Mike1> armijn: "Seriously, Gentoo
18:04 < Mike1> does a far better job than ROCK."
18:04 * Mike1 reading armijn's mail
18:04 * -> esden reading @ Mike1 
18:04 < Mike1> [anders]: ok i will do some work too in a bit
18:05 < Mike1> hi esden :)
18:05 < Mike1> armijn "ROCK's package manager sucks
18:05 < Mike1> BIG time." ....
18:06 < armijn> mike1: yes, it does
18:07 < Mike1> .... "ROCK is nice, but actually, I think Gentoo is much nicer and a lot of work has to be done to make ROCK as nice as Gentoo.
18:07 < Mike1> "
18:07 < esden> armijn: why are you still here and not in #gentoo ???
18:07 * Mike1 disapointed
18:08 < esden> Mike1: AOL
18:08 < huebi> @ ALL: Can you now understand my crying for documentation?
18:08 < armijn> hey, I just made an observation...
18:08 < huebi> armijn: ACK
18:09 < esden> the main problem is that we do not have as many developers as gentoo
18:09 < armijn> well, if I really have to go to #gentoo, it's no problem
18:09 < huebi> armijn: And you like toprovoke ;-))
18:09 < armijn> I can go.
18:09 < armijn> it's just a few commands in IRC...
18:09 < esden> armijn: that was not what I wanted to say
18:09 < Mike1> armijn: i feel it more like giving reasons to everyone subscribed to rock-linux to try gentoo and go away from rock
18:09 < armijn> mike1: well, maybe
18:10 < huebi> esden: And that these develpers don't finish theire work! btw what's up with qt on alpha? ;>>
18:10 < armijn> at least I tried to show where Gentoo outperforms ROC
18:10 < esden> ok let us all switch to gentoo it is sssoooooo much better
18:10 < armijn> +K
18:10 < esden> but get gentoo rumming on dietlibc :->
18:10 < armijn> I haven't tried building it from scratch...
18:10 < Mike1> armijn: observations are always ok, but in my point of view it looks more like a gentoo developers critizacing rock, not a rock developer reporting
18:11 < armijn> yeah, well, maybe I should switch...
18:11 < armijn> naaah!
18:11 < huebi> Mike1: 18:09 < huebi> armijn: And you like toprovoke ;-))
18:11 < Mike1> thought i believe those reports helps imrpove things that we have
18:11 < huebi> esden: What's up with qt on alpha?
18:11 < huebi> esden: What's up with qt on alpha?
18:11 < huebi> esden: What's up with qt on alpha?
18:11 < huebi> esden: What's up with qt on alpha?
18:12 < esden> ngngngngngng
18:12 < Mike1> i think i could improve the current ROCK Guide to make it even more human for newbies
18:12 < Mike1> at least for 1.4 - 1.5 trees
18:12 < huebi> (I think I should switch to gentoo. The Alpha port is running there IIRC)
18:13 < huebi> esden: What's up with qt on alpha?
18:13 < Mike1> i still need to feel more confident with 1.7
18:13 < huebi> esden: you still didn't answer
18:13 < esden> armijn: cmon if there is so much to do to get rock so nice as gentoo ... start coding intensivly and improove rock ... I wait to see patches ;-)
18:13 < Mike1> huebi: have realized hoe many people develop on alpha port for gentoo and how much for rock ??
18:13 < esden> huebi: as I said after vienna
18:14 < huebi> esden: Why?
18:14 < huebi> esden: So you can't bother anyone about bad ROCK Linux anymore!
18:14 < esden> huebi: because I have to test and fix some other things in the port that are way much more importaint then shitty qt
18:15 < huebi> Ok. I better drop alpha.
18:15 < armijn> yeah, shitty qt
18:15 < esden> huebi: ok your choice
18:15 < esden> I go now
18:15 < [anders]> put the handbags down guys..
18:15 < esden> cu guys
18:15 < armijn> hmm...bad vibes here
18:16 < esden> qt sux sorry ...
18:16 < [anders]> ROCK might not be as polished as Gentoo.. Or Debian, or RedHat... At least it has character..
18:16 < esden> but I have to go anyways
18:16 < huebi> esden did not understand that _all_ of 1.6.0 depends now on him.
18:17 < armijn> [anders] I never said it didn't :)
18:17 < armijn> huebi: what about sparc support?
18:17 < esden> huebi: and sparc ?
18:17 < huebi> ripclaw stoped sparc64 with his missind silo patch.
18:18 < esden> huh ??? 
18:18 < huebi> rene stoped ia32 with his proposed linux* patches.
18:18 < esden> why there is no mail
18:18 < esden> no info
18:18 < esden> that sparc is being dropped ???
18:19 < esden> or whatever
18:19 < huebi> esden: Read carfully.
18:19 < huebi> +e
18:19 < esden> ok
18:19 < esden> sorry
18:19 < huebi> Nothing is dropped.
18:20 < esden> so sparc is finished ?
18:20 < esden> stable and working ?
18:20 < armijn> nope
18:20 * -> esden confused
18:20 < armijn> still the same problems: kernel config + SILO
18:20 < armijn> and no X
18:20 < huebi> Only the work on 1.5 is not finished by some people too lazy, too ... to finish it before to start completly of in 1.7.
18:21 < armijn> and that's just sparc64, we haven't even touched sparc yet
18:21 < huebi> esden: Read carefully.
18:21 < huebi> kernel config is renes job.
18:22 < huebi> SILO is ripclaws or someone elses.
18:22 < esden> so we wait for patches for sparc ... alpha seems to me nearly finisched ... and I should be sure in two weeks ... so where is the problem ?
18:22 < huebi> esden: What about the LC-Display support in 1.5?
18:22 < esden> huebi: it works
18:22 < esden> I use it all the time
18:22 < huebi> esden: send me one, please
18:23 < esden> huebi: sure will do ...
18:23 < esden> but now I have to go
18:23 < huebi> esden: when? today or tomorrow?
18:23 < esden> cu l8er
18:23 * [anders] is a little disconcerted as there seems to be a rather large resistance to actually getting ROCK 1.6.0 off the ground. Not mentioning names or pointing fingers.. But the general impression is that there is some who are anti to 1.5.x and getting it sorted..
18:23 < esden> huebi: monday
18:23 < armijn> kernel config is rxr's job?
18:23 < huebi> ALPHA is far from finished!
18:23 < huebi> armijn: ACK
18:24 * -> esden detatched
18:24 < huebi> [anders]: ACK.
18:24 < armijn> huebi: urgh...I hope he will make it right...the config is quite subtle
18:25 < Mike1> so why the is everyone is just naming the damn problems in stead of just going over to the code work on solving them, come on guys lets just stop pointing people, work hard to get 1.6
18:25 < huebi> The biggest problem is the crapy code of the scripts in 1.5. No comments, no documentation, no clean style in there.
18:26 < huebi> Mike1: 1.7 must be somewhat adictve
18:26 < armijn> ok, am off
18:26 * armijn gone
18:26 -!- armijn [~armijn@losser.st-lab.cs.uu.nl] has quit ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?")
18:27 < fake> hi!
18:27 < huebi> moin fake
18:27 < Mike1> huebi: what do you mean?
18:28 < Mike1> hi fake
18:28 * fake is currently working _under_ 1.7.0-200207301331 *g*
18:28 < fake> KDE 3.0.2 with anti-aliased fonts, and lots of ugly eye-candy *g*
18:29 < huebi> Mike1: It's more fun to do something new than to first finish the old boring stuff.
18:29 < Mike1> huebi: i am working on both trees, but you know pretty well most of my work has been for 1.5
18:29 < huebi> fake: State of the art in 1.5 since weeks.
18:29 < Mike1> huebi: maybe its true, but some of us still care about the old stuff
18:29 < Mike1> right [anders]?
18:30 < fake> huebi: wa wa.
18:30 < [anders]> Mike1: would we make Gnome2 available for it if we didn't? :)
18:30 < huebi> Mike1: Yes, I know. But there are others who don't even want to answer questions about their crapy code.
18:30 < [anders]> at least there is a fighting chance to understand the build process in 1.5
18:30 < huebi> fake: hehe
18:30 < fake> huebi: i'm just curious because i never actually used it ;-)
18:31 < fake> and i also didn't think 1.7.0 would boot that easily
18:31 < fake> i want to test the new Update-System script
18:31 < Mike1> huebi: [anders] yeah maybe there is a lot of un-documented code, but hey i know pretty much how the build process work
18:31 * [anders] will probably carry on with 1.6.x long past 2.0 is released..
18:31 * Mike1 too
18:32 * huebi too
18:32 < [anders]> I am still on 1.4.0 and I was pretty fscking tempted to stick with it and not move to even 1.5.x..
18:32 < Mike1> so there is 3 of us who do give a shit about 1.5
18:32 < [anders]> New slogan "Rock 1.6, for the people who care!"
18:32 < huebi> I need/want sth reliable/stable/usable. 1.6.0 will be that.
18:33 < huebi> armijn and ripclaw also care about 1.5
18:33 < Mike1> huebi: [anders] i believe that one single person can make a difference, and as i said before there is 3 of us, even if no one else care we will make the differenc
18:33 < [anders]> 1.4.0 was that for me.. I have updated the odd things, and most notably Gnome to 1.4.0 and also installed Gnome2.. There is life in the old dog yet..
18:33 < Mike1> +e
18:34 < Mike1> [anders]: ack
18:35 < [anders]> 1.5.x has more or less the same build system as 1.4, but it has been tidied up..
18:35 < [anders]> I feel less dread moving to 1.5.x than 1.7.x
18:35 < huebi> I want 1.5 like LVM: Easy to understand with good error messages and full documentation
18:35 * fake started with 1.7 :-/
18:35 * [anders] started with ROCK 1.3.9
18:35 < fake> but i use 1.5 ;-)
18:35 < Mike1> huebi: well that can be done
18:36 * [anders] still have the CD's I bought from Austria
18:36 * Mike1 will start with 1.2 this weekend
18:36 < Mike1> :)
18:36 < fake> [anders] i mean i started developing for 1.7
18:36 < fake> i use rock since 1.3.12 or something
18:37 < Mike1> huebi: i dont see any problem with documenting stuff i contribute on that, i already started to work around scripts/Internal
18:37 < huebi> I started to use rock 1.4.0 last year at this time. Then the CD was broken. So I started to build my own one.
18:37 < huebi> Mike1: great. More of that.
18:38 * [anders] wonders if the build scripts in 1.6 could be ported to Perl.. ;-)
18:38 < Mike1> [anders]: PLEASE!
18:39 < huebi> I fixed qt.conf today. Now there is very much docu in there. Easy to understand for everyone now. At least I hope so
18:39 < huebi> [anders]: NO. ;-)
18:39 < huebi> I like the bash scripts. Bash is easy and works everywhere.
18:39 < [anders]> Mike1/huebi: If the scripts are documented properly, I see no harm.. :-)
18:39 < Mike1> huebi: there are a few things i need to bug clifford with but please know i care about the docs as well as you do, and i am doing something about it
18:40 < Mike1> [anders]: ACK
18:40 < Mike1> :)
18:40 < [anders]> I agree, too much of the scripts are just calling various shell commands, no point in adding the overhead of Perl on that..
18:41 < huebi> http://www.cvs.rocklinux.de/cvs/viewcvs.cgi/rock-1.5/base-config/qt/qt.conf?rev=1.14&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup <- my style. I want some comments, please
18:42 < huebi> 70% echo's and comments - but easy to understand.
18:43 * [anders] will start putting comments in the patches I do.. To explain them.. 
18:43 < huebi> [anders]: That's great.
18:44 * [anders] been a bit lazy with that so far as the patches has been quite simple.. just tweaking a line here or there..
18:44 < Mike1> huebi: mm... easy to understand, thought i am not really into adding that many echo
18:44 < Mike1> +s
18:44 < [anders]> when I do the mod to the build scripts to drop root privilegies when configuring and building packages, I will document that vividly..
18:44 < Mike1> but i think i can live with that
18:44 < Mike1> nice work huebi
18:45 < Mike1> [anders]: BTW i really liked ur proposal about the sudo stuff
18:45 < huebi> [anders]: That's ok. But 400+ charaters long sed commands need much explanation about what they actually do.
18:47 < huebi> Mike1: I want to find quick the area where the build breaks. That's the only reason for these many echos. If something breaks after an update that makes bug hunting really comfotable.
18:47 < huebi> +r
18:48 < Mike1> <Mike1> nice work huebi
18:48 < huebi> Mike1: Thank you. ;-)
18:48 * Mike1 configuring a cisco router 4500 brb
18:49 < huebi> cu Mike1
18:49 * Mike1 here but working on another workspace
19:02 < [anders]> Mike1: ta, I have had more thought about that, and I will have to take a long good look at what is required to go the sudo path..
19:03 < [anders]> If say 90% of the build can be run as rockbuild user and only the actual things that require root gets called via sudo, then the build becomes safer..
19:03 < Mike1> [anders]: yes i know that but its a very cool idea
19:07 < [anders]> Mike1: I'll look at implementing that as well..
19:07 * [anders] is noting that down on the to-do list that now is starting to get rather long..
19:08 < Mike1> [anders]: perhaps lets include it in the TODO.private list :)
19:08 < Mike1> just after gnome2
19:08 < [anders]> Mike1: sure.. :)
19:13 < Mike1> huebi: i would you to tell me what scripts, procedures, docs, etc you would like me to document or improve, so i can add to my todo list
19:16 -!- plfiorini [~plfiorini@r-bo043-2-309.tin.it] has joined #rocklinux
19:18 < huebi> Mike1: You can take what you want. Preverable in the scripts directory.
19:19 < Mike1> huebi: ok my friend i will :)
19:19 < [anders]> ok, me going afk for a while.. got some testing left to do at work, then off home..
19:19 < Mike1> but dont spect to see much/anything untill we merge private with current :)
19:19 < Mike1> [anders]: have fun see you later
19:20 < huebi> cu [anders]
19:20 < huebi> Mike1: ACK
19:20 < blindcoder> hi everyone
19:22 < fake> hu blindcoder
19:22 < blindcoder> whats up with localhero iso-archive?
19:23 < huebi> hi blindcoder
19:31 < blindcoder> is it down?
19:54 < Mike1> blindcoder: i guess, what do you need?
19:57 < blindcoder> a sparc32-iso
20:11 < Mike1> blindcoder: i havent upload mines there, anyone else upload one?
20:23 -!- plfiorini [~plfiorini@r-bo043-2-309.tin.it] has quit ("sera")
20:25 * Mike1 away for lunch
20:25 < huebi> cu Mike1
20:55 * Mike1 back
20:55 < Mike1> re
20:55 < huebi> hi Mike1
20:55 < Mike1> huebi: do you some nice images for posters or t-shirts related to rock?
20:56 < huebi> i'm fixing all the .conf files for the new makeopt="$makeopt -j1" at the moment. Many things now work without it.
20:57 < huebi> Mike1: Sorry, I havn't. But I though about making T-shirts.
20:57 < Mike1> huebi: very nice
20:58 < Mike1> huebi: i thought of making posters, t-shirts and cups for coffee :) ( and sent some of them to owl)
21:00 < huebi> hihi. I think owl is not in the best mood concerning men. Next week I am in Vienna. I'll see what we can do.
21:00 < Mike1> huebi: sure
21:02 < Mike1> By the a will truely make the cups of coffee maybe with the official ROCK logo in one side and the Developer name in the other
21:03 < Mike1> also would be a good to make it to add it as something else to sell in the rock shop
21:09 -!- WKaibigan [~Aloicious@ACBADC43.ipt.aol.com] has joined #rocklinux
21:10 < Mike1> hi WKaibigan
21:10 < WKaibigan> This may be of interest http://www.pcengines.com/cflash.htm
21:10 < WKaibigan> Hi Mike1
21:11 < huebi> hi WKaibigan
21:11 < WKaibigan> Hi huebi.
21:17 < Mike1> [anders]: still around here?
22:14 -!- kvak|uninvited [uninvited@p50802B12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:14 < kvak|uninvited> Rock around the clock every1 ! Hello !
22:14 < Mike1> kvak|uninvited: hi
22:14 < kvak|uninvited> anyone got a good beginner tutorial on programming C ?
22:15 < Mike1> C programing Howto?
22:15 < Mike1> www.linuxdocs.org
22:16 < kvak|uninvited> i ll try this out. Have to change an existing source...
22:17 < kvak|uninvited> thx
22:17 < Mike1> welcome
22:26 < [anders]> Mike1: now I am..
22:26 < Mike1> re [anders]
22:26 < Mike1> :)
22:27 * [anders] has just been and dropped the gf off at the pub.. her mates are arranging a pub-night as a birthday present for her..
22:27 < Mike1> [anders]: Are you still working on the UML stuff?
22:28 -!- snyke [snyke@happypenguin.org] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:29 < [anders]> Mike1: not very much no.. Never really got anywhere with that.. How did you find that by the way? :)
22:30 < Mike1> hanging around the rock pages
22:30 < Mike1> :)
22:30 < Mike1> [anders]: i was looking forward to know more about it i dont have very clear what it is but i am interested :)
22:30 < [anders]> hehehe.. it was a good while since Clifford and I talked about that...
22:31 < [anders]> Essentially, UML is running the linux kernel as a process in userspace..
22:31 < Mike1> i see ..
22:31 < Mike1> and why did you drop the project?
22:31 < [anders]> so you point your linux kernel executable at a filesystem with an installed linux OS and viola, you have a virtual machine...
22:32 < [anders]> Mike1: time... I just did not have the time and the hardware to carry on testing things.. UML is still fairly unstable..
22:32 < [anders]> All I had to work on was my laptop and I use that work work as well.. No laptop, no work done, no money to pay bills.. :-/
22:33 < [anders]> s/work work/for work/
22:33 < Mike1> i see
22:33 < Mike1> got some papers/notes of where you stopped?
22:33 < [anders]> And now I have two machines and still no time or hardware to play with it on..
22:33 < [anders]> Mike1: all in my head more or less..
22:33 < Mike1> :(
22:33 * Mike1 has the hardware and maybe the time
22:34 < Mike1> not the knowledge though :(
22:34 < [anders]> I had an idea about what to do, some stuff should be on the webpages and some in the mailing list..
22:34 < Mike1> i will browse what i can
22:34 < Mike1> :)
22:35 < [anders]> It is something I might pick up when I have finished some of the other projects that are on the go.. currently ROCK 1.6.0/1.6.1 are at the forefront of my mind..
22:35 -!- huebi [huebi@80.65.32.85] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:35 < Mike1> hehe yes of course
22:36 * Mike1 on the phone mom
22:38 -!- huebi [huebi@80.65.32.85] has joined #rocklinux
22:39 < huebi> re
22:43 < Mike1> re huebi
22:44 -!- huebi [huebi@80.65.32.85] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
22:44 -!- huebi [huebi@rocklinux.de] has joined #rocklinux
22:44 < Mike1> re huebi :)
22:44 < huebi> re Mike1
22:53 < huebi> ok bzip2 is fixed now..
22:57 < blindcoder> oh boy
22:57 < blindcoder> debian 3.0 on sparc seems... a little bit buggy
22:58 < blindcoder> just installed a standard system...
22:58 < blindcoder> booting was tricky but then the kernel was searching for root-on-NFS
22:58 < blindcoder> d'ouh
22:59 < blindcoder> well... I'm going home
22:59 < blindcoder> bye
22:59 < huebi> cu blindcoder
23:07 * [anders] grumbles... a kde package broke.. and the suspicion is that this has got something to do with $MAKE expanding to 'make -j2'....
23:07 < [anders]> huebi: is the MAKE + MAKEOPT change complete in the 1.5.17 build scripts?
23:07 < huebi> [anders]: Yes.
23:08 < huebi> use make "$makeopt -j1"
23:09 < [anders]> ok.. i'm pulling cvs and will patch in the tree.. so in the .conf for a package, I should replace MAKE=blahblah with MAKEOPT="$MAKEOPT -j1" instead..?
23:10 < huebi> [anders]: MAKE=blahblah with make "$makeopt -j1"
23:11 < huebi> [anders]: I'm fixing here too
23:12 < [anders]> huebi: I just noticed that you are tweaking .conf's.... :)
23:12 * [anders] reading a rather large unified diff at the moment..
23:12 < huebi> I commit the first chunk.
23:12 < huebi> mom
23:14 < huebi> [anders]: have a look at the changelog
23:14 < [anders]> ok.. :)
23:15 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@212.116.24.1] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:15 -!- owl [~mail-spam@B55c0.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
23:15 < owl> hi
23:15 < huebi> huhu owl
23:16 < [anders]> moin Sandra
23:16 < Mike1> huebi: i already define properly the rock logos and ideas for the cups of coffee
23:16 < Mike1> they will look great :)
23:16 < owl> haha :P
23:17 < Mike1> owl: i will sent you one if you like
23:17 * [anders] noticed today that he has slipped in to the top10 on the irc stats..
23:18 < Mike1> [anders]: nice
23:18 < [anders]> only about 14,000 lines behind all-time master huebi.. :)
23:20 < Mike1> [anders]: got experience with diskless ?
23:20 < Mike1> even running X on diskless boxes
23:20 < Mike1> ?
23:21 < [anders]> Mike1: no, but when I have the space, I'll get a few mini-ITX boards in small cases and have a play.. :)
23:21 < [anders]> Mike1: use bootp and tftp to load the kernel and the initrd and that is about it..
23:22 < [anders]> if the initrd is configured correctly (and here dietlibc comes in handy) you can have X etc in about 8-10MB.. If you want a firewall, 4MB initrd is well adequate..
23:23 < [anders]> And since the box is diskless and use /tmp+/var as ramdisk, it can be hacked and all you need to do is fix the initrd to block that hole and then hit the reset button on the diskless box. Problem solved..
23:25 < [anders]> the old IBM X-Stations was like that.. they usually had 8MB RAM, (sometimes less), and they basically loaded X and only showed you the display, everything else ran on the box they XDMCP'd against..
23:26 < Mike1> [anders]: i see
23:26 < [anders]> which is another good way to do it. you either want to only show a display (i.e. the gfx) on a box, or you wanna skip X and run services of sorts on the diskless box..
23:26 < Mike1> [anders]: wanna set up a 15 boxes lab all of them diskless
23:27 < huebi> Stage 1 builds again. ;-)
23:29 < [anders]> Mike1: you probably want to only load X on them and use XDMCP against one single beefy server..
23:30 < Mike1> ?
23:30 < [anders]> Mike1: that way you only need 64MB ram, a Pentium 200MHz and a network card in the clients..
23:31 < Mike1> the clients are Celeroms 750mhz, 128ram and do have a network card
23:31 < Mike1> and a video card of course:)
23:31 < [anders]> Mike1: one server, 1GB RAM, plenty disk, perhaps even a dual CPU box.. like a dual P-III 1GHz..
23:32 < Mike1> dual k7 even?
23:32 < Mike1> :)
23:32 < [anders]> Mike1: then 15 Clients, no disk, slow CPU (if all you do is show gfx, you don't need hugely fast CPU)
23:32 < Mike1> [anders]: i know
23:32 < Mike1> but my friend bought them like that
23:33 < [anders]> Well, hmm.. I suppose you could make a diskless Beowulf out of them.. ;-)
23:33 < Mike1> personally i wouldnt buy something higher than 486 for diskless
23:33 < [anders]> Mike1: I'd try and get hold of a P200 or similar.. That's decent..
23:33 < Mike1> :P
23:34 < [anders]> but what I probably will end up doing is getting the miniITX boards.. (lemme try and dig out a URL..)
23:34 < Mike1> ja please
23:34 < Mike1> s/ja/da
23:34 < Mike1> all information is more than welcome
23:35 < [anders]> http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/mini_itx.jsp
23:36 < [anders]> http://www.mini-itx.com/
23:37 < [anders]> http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/images/VIAVT6009iTXreference.jpg
23:37 < [anders]> this board is 17x17cm big.. :)
23:37 < Mike1> :)
23:38 < [anders]> you could probably cram in about 10 of these boards in the same space and your average ATX midi-tower... ;-)
23:39 < Mike1> [anders]: this way cool :)
23:39 < [anders]> Mike1: apperantly you can get these boards for under 100 in UK.. including VAT and shipping.. :-D
23:41 < Mike1> for real?
23:41 < Mike1> cool
23:43 < [anders]> I'll probably wait until they come in a little case etc ready to just attach screen/serial + eth + power for that price.. Then they will be way cool.. :)
23:43 < [anders]> 128MB RAM in these little boards makes quite good firewalls..
23:43 < Mike1> [anders]: wouldnt it be better to just make ur own embeded project on it
23:44 < [anders]> if you stick 256MB in them, you can make beowulf clusters with them and do perhaps distributed computing..
23:44 < Mike1> :)
23:44 < Mike1> rocked of course
23:44 < [anders]> Mike1: hehehehe.. well, I think we definately should try to backport dietlibc into ROCK 1.6.x for at least ia32... ;-)
23:45 < Mike1> who cares about flames lets add it to our TODO.private
23:45 < Mike1> so it was Gnome2 , then what was it?
23:45 < Mike1> i know there was something
23:46 < [anders]> uhm.. we were toying with the idea of dietlibc...
23:46 < Mike1> no but there was something else
23:46 < Mike1> mom i check logs
23:47 < [anders]> hmm.. I know I want to add a package for a static bash to go into /sbin for system maintenance.. (Yes, I know of sash, but bash is a little friendlier)
23:48 < Mike1> [anders]: ok i remembered we also had the sudo stuff
23:48 < [anders]> yes, that I will look at how to fix during the weekend..
23:49 < Mike1> [anders]: so 3rd task is dietlibc
23:49 < Mike1> and 4th UML and Router subdist :)
23:50 < [anders]> hehehe.. the UML thing will be a lot easier to do now when they already have a maintenance console tool in the UML distribution.. :)
23:50 < Mike1> so lets go for it
23:50 < Mike1> :)
23:50 -!- plfiorini [~plfiorini@r-bo043-2-143.tin.it] has joined #rocklinux
23:50 < Mike1> hi plfiorini
23:50 < plfiorini> hi Mike1
23:51 < owl> hi
23:51 < [anders]> Mike1: sure.. :)  the UML subdist can wait for more important things.. We also want to port from dRock the facility to install from two or three CD's...
23:51 < Mike1> oh ja
23:52 < Mike1> drocks firewall script looks would be interesting too
23:52 < Mike1> and the init scripts
23:52 * [anders] thinks gnome and kde should probably be shifted off to a second CD... then you have the desktop env CD and you have 'base + all the other stuff' CD.. :)
23:52 < [anders]> Mike1: just include FWBuilder as a package... ;-)
23:54 < [anders]> Mike1: just rsyncing up the private tree now.. Will merge in the rest of huebi's CVS fixes later.. I'll go hunt for the MAKE=whatever in the .confs now..
23:55 < Mike1> [anders]: good
23:56 < [anders]> huebi: would just a single large patch be ok if all it fixes are the change from MAKE= to makeopt= in the .conf files?
23:56 < huebi> [anders]: jo
23:57 < [anders]> huebi: and how far have you got with it? :)
23:57 < huebi> oot@zeus:/mnt/disk/rock-linux# ls dist/var/adm/logs/
23:57 < huebi> .                 1-e2fsprogs.log  1-gzip.log          1-pdksh.log      1-util-linux.log
23:57 < huebi> ..                1-fileutils.log  1-kiss.log          1-readline.log   1-wget.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-00-dirtree.log  1-findutils.log  1-linux-header.log  1-sed.log        2-bin86.err
23:57 < huebi> 1-autoconf.log    1-flex.log       1-linux-src.log     1-sh-utils.log   2-binutils.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-bash.log        1-gawk.log       1-m4.log            1-sysfiles.log   2-gcc.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-binutils.log    1-gcc.log        1-make.log          1-sysvinit.log   2-sparc-utils.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-bison.log       1-gettext.log    1-mmv.log           1-tar.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-bzip2.log       1-glibc.log      1-net-tools.log     1-termcap.log
23:57 < huebi> 1-diffutils.log   1-grep.log       1-patch.log         1-textutils.log
23:57 < huebi> these are fixed
23:58 < Mike1> funny thing my workstation is named zeus
--- Log closed Sat Aug 03 00:00:29 2002