--- Log opened Fri Nov 15 00:00:14 2002
--- Day changed Fri Nov 15 2002
00:00 < fake> i think i want to see that killing err... connect4 robot ;)
00:00 < esden> 24 th is a sunday in the weekend after the next
00:00 < esden> hehe
00:00 < esden> there will also be the shooting robot
00:00 < esden> that is finding his target automatically
00:00 < esden> (a red ball)
00:00 < esden> and then shoots on it
00:01 < esden> this is a project of a third guy in our group
00:01 < esden> it uses a webcam to find his target
00:02 < esden> it seems to be pretty cool too
00:02 < fake> shoots with what? high energy chemical laser?
00:02 < esden> no with lego darts ;-)
00:03 < fake> isn't he gonna run out of red balls pretty soon? *g*
00:03 < fake> aw.
00:03 < esden> hehe
00:03 < esden> I will document our connect4 robot
00:03 * fake is gonna sleep now
00:03 < esden> and make photos
00:03 < esden> ok /me too
00:03 < fake> kuhl
00:03 < esden> gn8
00:03 < fake> esden
00:03 < esden> ?
00:03 < fake> morgen abend bitz?
00:04 < esden> nope benji 
00:04 < fake> was machen?
00:04 < esden> sparc cluster aufbauen
00:04 < fake> ah, okay, may i attend?
00:04 < esden> yes you are required
00:04 < fake> o_O
00:04 < esden> blindcoder asked my to tell you that you have to come 
00:05 < fake> nah, we'll see later today. now sleep well ;)
00:05 < esden> when I see you
00:05 < esden> n8
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01:41 < th> how to rotate a ps / pdf?
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08:50 < esden> woot
08:50 < esden> wlan is working
08:50 < esden> I love this fscking university !
08:51 < esden> noone alive ?
08:51 < esden> ok ... I go to my lecture
08:51 < esden> cu guys
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09:16 < blindcoder> moin
09:22 < fake> mornin
09:45 < blindcoder> fake: are you on the train today?
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10:01 < fake> blindcoder: i hope so. i'll drive to sun shortly and try to get information about that pci-pc-cards
10:02 < fake> blindcoder: if i am lucky i might be able to implement it, but then i might take longer.
10:02 < fake> blindcoder: but i will be in IRC ;)
10:04 < blindcoder> fake: okay
10:05 < blindcoder> fake: You don't have - by any chance - a PCI-NIC for me?
10:06 < blindcoder> 570 builds total, 355 completed fine, 215 with errors.
10:06 < blindcoder> *urks*
10:14 -!- Freak [freak@pD953083E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
10:15 < blindcoder> hi fake
10:15 < blindcoder> hi Freak
10:15 < blindcoder> that way >_<
10:21 < Freak> http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/1113.barr.html
10:21 < Freak> and hi all :)
10:28 < blindcoder> *click*
10:32 < blindcoder> *lol*
10:32 < blindcoder> strange sounds coming out of my headphones...
10:33 < blindcoder> "I hear dead OSes"
10:33 < blindcoder> Sounds like a WinNT4 in a ssh X-Forwarded vmware...
10:38 -!- owl [~mail-spam@213.68.39.1] has joined #rocklinux
10:38 < owl> moin
10:39 < blindcoder> moin owl
10:39 < blindcoder> *ARGH*
10:39 < blindcoder> Who maintains bison in 1.7?
10:41 < owl> tach blindcoder
10:42 < Freak> morning owliebowlie
10:44 < owl> FREAK!!!
10:44 < owl> tach auch
10:44 < owl> so. away... (mal wieder...)
10:45 < Freak> heh
10:47 < blindcoder> mech isse wieder
10:48 < esden> hi all
10:48 < esden> woot
10:48 < esden> wlan rulez
10:48 < owl> hi esden
10:49 < blindcoder> esden: hi
10:49 < esden> hi blindcoder 
10:49 < blindcoder> the bison package is buggy >_<
10:49 < esden> blindcoder: I will be earlier in in
10:49 < esden> about 15:00
10:49 < blindcoder> esden: sweet
10:49 -!- rxr [~rene@port-212-202-200-98.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has joined #rocklinux
10:49 < owl> esden: lazy student...
10:49 < esden> owl: shut up !
10:50 * -> esden is working hard at the moment
10:50 < blindcoder> echo '#!/bin/sh\nbison -y "$@"' >$root/usr/bin/yacc
10:50 < owl> esden: i was just kidding... i guess you know..
10:50 < owl> *it
10:50 < blindcoder> WHO THINKSS THAT THIS WORKS?
10:50 < esden> owl: yes ...
10:50 < esden> blindcoder: /me knowing nothing !!
10:50 * -> esden is only a user 
10:51 < blindcoder> me too
10:51 < blindcoder> and even _I_ know that it doesn't
10:51 < blindcoder> and because of this my nethack package broke
10:51 < esden> uups
10:52 < blindcoder> the file $root/usr/bin/yacc looks like this then:
10:52 < blindcoder> #!/bin/sh\nbison -y "$@"
10:52 < blindcoder> and this DOES NAT work >_<
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10:52 < esden> echo -e should help
10:52 < blindcoder> yes it does
10:53 < blindcoder> I just do a cvs up -Pd and look if it's still there
10:53 < blindcoder> then I'll send a patch
10:53 < blindcoder> == 10:53:24 =[5]=> Building blindcoder/nethack [3.4.0 1.7-snapshot].
10:53 < blindcoder> -> Reading package configuration from pkg dir.
10:53 < blindcoder> -> Preparing build in src.nethack.1037354000.20026.1791500921
10:53 < blindcoder> -> Building. Writing output to /var/adm/logs/5-nethack.out
10:53 < blindcoder> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-nethack.out -> 5-nethack.log
10:53 < blindcoder> == 11/15/02 10:55:15 =[5]=> Finished building package nethack.
10:53 < blindcoder> SWEET
10:54 < blindcoder> with all options changed, it did work!
10:54 < blindcoder> *jump* *happy*
10:56 < blindcoder> okay, that error is still there
10:57 < blindcoder> I hope I don't screw up again
10:58 < blindcoder> hmm...
10:59 < blindcoder> will the ML be intereted in a -D (%-verbose) switch for cp and mv? :)
11:01 * -> esden looking confused at blindcoder 
11:02 < blindcoder> cp -D file /anotherpartiton/file
11:02 < blindcoder> fil: 1% copied
11:02 < blindcoder> \rfile: 12 copied
11:02 < blindcoder> \rfile: 2% copied
11:02 < blindcoder> \rfile: 3% copied
11:02 < blindcoder> ...
11:02 < blindcoder> \rfile: 100% copied\n
11:03 < blindcoder> works with cp and mv :)
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11:05 < blindcoder> moin huebi_
11:05 < blindcoder> moin SMP__
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11:08 < blindcoder> okay, yacc patch is out
11:09 < blindcoder> still don't know whether to send nethack-packagfe
11:15 < esden> SEND IT !
11:16 < blindcoder>  okay, okay >_<
11:16 < blindcoder> but the implementation of the config doesn't make me happy
11:20 < blindcoder> sent it
11:24 < esden> good
11:25 < blindcoder> will have to change some things in it for a cleaner solution
11:25 < blindcoder> but for now it works :)
11:27 < blindcoder> I think I'll creat a licq-package when I'm home
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11:38 < blindcoder> moin bluefire
11:38 < owl> moin bluefire
11:39 < bluefire> moin folks
11:39 < owl> urgs... you have too much time, if you're compiling our product on my workstation... it's too slow... *yawning*
11:40 < blindcoder> heeh
11:40 < owl> blindcoder: hm?
11:41 < blindcoder> get a new ws then or create a cluster
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11:58 < owl> blindcoder: if you have too much money, i will give you my account-nr. to enable you to send me money for a new WS
11:59 < Freak> owl: btw it's a toothache, not pain in teeth *hrhr*
12:00 < owl> Freak: na und?
12:01 < Freak> I just thought I should tell ya ;)
12:01 < owl> thx. my dictionary is dict.leo.org, not Freak :P
12:01 < Freak> well noone asked you if you wanted my commentary ;)
12:02 < owl> brb
12:03 < Freak> bbt (be back tonite ,)
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12:07 < fake> blindcoder: i have several. 10 or 100?
12:07 < [anders]> narf.. /me now trying to get a mini build of Rock using uClibc to work..
12:08 < [anders]> interesting work, as it wants to install various things where it should not install them... like in the host OS filesystem f.ex....
12:10 < fake> urgh
12:10 < blindcoder> fake: 10 should suffice, since the hub is 10 only, too
12:11 < blindcoder> [anders]: interesting, indeed....
12:12 < blindcoder> fake: I just don't want the SparcStations to be in the same physical network as the rest
12:12 < fake> hae?
12:13 < fake> 10 mbit fuer den fileserver?
12:13 < blindcoder> ich hab nur noch nen 10er hub
12:13 < fake> und nen 10er hub? fuer nfs? wieviele clients hast du?
12:13 * [anders] wonders if he has just shafted the host os...
12:13 < blindcoder> 5 clients
12:13 < fake> 5*10 != 10
12:13 < blindcoder> [anders]: hmm... I don't hope so
12:14 < blindcoder> gib mir noch nen 100er hub dazu
12:14 < fake> [ 5*10 != 10 ] && get_a_100mbit_hub
12:14 < fake> blindcoder: okay...
12:14 < fake> moment
12:14 < fake> nehma doch den vom bitz
12:14 < fake> liegt doch eh nur rum
12:15 < blindcoder> ich hab ja schon den 10er ausm bitz :)
12:15 < fake> aeh der ausm bitz kann eh _nur_ 100
12:15 < blindcoder> den hab ich seit dem letzten CCC daheim :)
12:15 < [anders]> blindcoder: indeed I have.. ah well, time to re-install gcc then..
12:15 < fake> the centrecom one?
12:15 < blindcoder> [anders]: as long as it's just gcc
12:15 < blindcoder> fake: yes
12:16 < fake> hehe
12:16 < [anders]> blindcoder: and possibly some libc links..
12:16 < blindcoder> that brown/gray centrecom-10-mbit-hub
12:16 < [anders]> nope, not shafted libc (which was incredibly nice..)
12:21 < [anders]> apt-get install --reinstall gcc    solved the problem.. how handy! :)
12:21 < blindcoder>   hehe
12:21 < blindcoder> back, just had to answer a call
12:21 < blindcoder> shit fucking windows
12:22 * [anders] will have to remember that command, the feeling is that until I have got uClibc to install properly, that will have to be run _many_ times..
12:22 < blindcoder> It rebooted for the oixth time now, and so far I've been unable to do as much as open a text-file
12:25 < blindcoder> fake: I think I've got an idea how to do it
12:25 < th> which USB2.0 hardware is currently in 2.4.19 kernel? some pcmcia stuff?
12:26 < blindcoder> I use my 10/100 hub for the SparcStations etc
12:26 < blindcoder> fake: and my WS gets connected to the server via Cross-Cable
12:27 < blindcoder> fake: but that means I need a 100MBit-NIC
12:29 < blindcoder> hmm *thinking*
12:29 < blindcoder> Stupid Idea...
12:30 < blindcoder> I take a soldering iron and solder an additional wire to each of the 8 wires in the ethernet-cable and attach them to an additional plug
12:30 < blindcoder> thus creating a passive hub
12:30 * [anders] has indeed shafted the box...
12:31 < blindcoder> [anders]: how bad?
12:31 < [anders]> can no longer compile things ...
12:31 < blindcoder> urks...
12:31 < [anders]> might be a re-install job... might be fixable, will find out I guess..
12:32 < blindcoder> [anders]: what about using UML for these things in the future?
12:33 < [anders]> Perhaps.. the compiler seems to have gone nuts.. it spawns thousands of children and eats RAM like there is no tomorrow..
12:34 < blindcoder> hmm... there _IS_ no tomorrow for this installation of the compiler, so I think he's doing quite fine :)
12:35 * blindcoder getting hungry speaking of eating
12:36 < blindcoder> c ya l8er
12:36 * [anders] running tripwire to find out what uClibc managed to mess up...
12:37 -!- LoriAW is now known as Lorini
12:38 < owl> re
12:57 < [anders]> aaahh... found the problem and fixed it.. the relevant command line became: apt-get install --reinstall gcc libc6 libc6-dev binutils
12:57 < [anders]> now I have to figure out how make works and how I can make it use the root directory of my choice..
13:05 < [anders]> woohoo.. I think I cracked it..
13:06 < [anders]> now it is building the binutils.. and hopefully they will use uClibc.. :)
13:21 < blindcoder> re
13:28 < fake> [anders] is a cracker ;)
13:29 < blindcoder> *LOOO*
13:29 < blindcoder> http://cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/digest.cgi?N=238#238-10
13:30 < blindcoder> } Joe:          (Dreamy look in his eye) I could sure use a good woman...
13:30 < blindcoder> Judge:        Right.  See the clerk for your court-appointed girlfriend.  (Bangs gavel)  Next case.
13:39 < [anders]> snarl... the rock build system defaults to using the host OS libc, (which is glibc), so I have to figure out how to make it use uClibc for anything built after it.. :-/
13:40 < fake> [anders]: how is is done with dietlibc?
13:42 -!- atheist [~capchaos@pD9048519.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:42 < [anders]> fake: no idea.. dietlibc isn't part of 1.5...
13:42 < Lorini> hi cap
13:42 < [anders]> fake: I'll work it out somehow..
13:43 < blindcoder> hi cap :)
13:48 < atheist> moin :)
13:51 < owl> hi atheist
13:58 < atheist> na owl :)
14:02 < fake> [anders]: oh,.. you are doingf 1.5 uClibc??
14:09 < blindcoder> *AAARRRGGGHHH*
14:09 < blindcoder> NOOOO!!!!
14:09 < [anders]> fake: ya.. well, trying anyway.. Might have to do it a slightly diffrent way to what I have thought first..
14:10 < blindcoder> some collegues from another department just came in and stole THE LAST COFFEE!!!
14:10 < fake> [anders]: why, oh why, aren't you using 1.7?
14:10 < fake> blindcoder: smart guys.
14:10 * [anders] now wonder if there is a way to get binutils to install without too much hassle..
14:11 < blindcoder> fake: yes... from their pov
14:11 < [anders]> fake: /me not touch 1.7 with very long stick until after 2.0
14:11 < fake> why?
14:12 * blindcoder taking 1.7, changing version to 2.0 and smuggling it silently onto www.rocklinux.org
14:12 < [anders]> fake: /me unimpressed so far. see no reason to move from 1.5 (which I halfly understand how it works) as 1.5 will actually build and would be good enough to run a server with
14:13 < [anders]> I need and want a *stable* base to use on my machines, not something that is experimental and half the time isn't intended to work "as it is work in progress"
14:13 < [anders]> 1.5 has the right idea, get it working and then release a stable base where only patches for security problems go in..
14:14 < [anders]> I am fully aware that 1.5 isn't 100% solid right this minute, but it is closer to stable (by some margin) compared to 1.7
14:15 -!- litost [~user@phynp6.phy-astr.gsu.edu] has joined #rocklinux
14:15 < [anders]> I also have to take in to account that I have to be able to understand the build system if I am to fix any problems myself, and 1.7 is to complicated and at least from what I can gather, so poorly documented that it is no point even considering hacking it unless you have 'guru status'
14:16 < [anders]> yeah, granted, flashy features and groundbreaking things. I'd love the package management from it for example, but with the rest? I'll pass thank you..
14:16 < blindcoder> well... yes... the documentien is.. something between sparse and sucks
14:22 < [anders]> so you can see why I will not make an effort on 1.7? when the prevalent attitude among the core developers is that unless you memorise man-pages you should not tinker with it, they can have it to themselves for all I care...
14:22 * [anders] would rather go back to SuSE than pick up work on 1.7 when the developers have that attitude to those trying to help..
14:23 * fake auch
14:29 < [anders]> perhaps my attitude sucks, perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick, perhaps I should not be messing with ROCK at all, but I have messed with it for a good while now, I might not have contributed a great deal, but I have contributed.. More than to any other distribution.. It would pain me to have to turn to another distribution, but if that is what have to be done, so be it..
14:31 < blindcoder> no one said this
14:31 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD9E492C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:31 < tcr> moin all
14:31 < blindcoder> moin tcr
14:36 < [anders]> blindcoder: no, I know that, but the general feeling on the rock mailinglist is making me contemplate wether I should go back to SuSE...
14:36 < [anders]> lo tcr
14:37 < fake> [anders]: i didn't mean to offend you
14:37 < tcr> hi [anders] :) her mår du?
14:37 < [anders]> fake: you have not offended me in any way... :)
14:37 < [anders]> tcr: jag är trött.. :)
14:37 < [anders]> tcr: hur mår du?
14:37 < tcr> er, right
14:37 < fake> [anders]: it is just that you could save yourself a lot of time if you'd do that in 1.7, but you are free to do whatever you like to do, of course.
14:38 < [anders]> fake: but can you see my pov? why should I bother contributing if I am not taken seriously because I do not want to memorise man-pages?
14:39 < [anders]> tcr: I'm a little tired (and hence edgy).. :) How's life?
14:39 < tcr> yeah, i understood you ;)
14:39 < tcr> well, it's ... WEEKEND! ...
14:40 * tcr flips!
14:40 < blindcoder> tcr: not yet... 2 hours to go
14:40 < tcr> at least for me *bg*
14:40 < blindcoder> *grr*
14:40 < blindcoder> but life in its entirety seems qiuite good :)
14:41 < fake> [anders]: i see your point.
14:41 < [anders]> I have little spare time as is, and when I put time on fixing or adding things in ROCK, it is nice to at least not be abused for making that effort..
14:41 * tcr is listening to Dimmu Borgir - Dødsferd
14:41 < [anders]> at the moment, I feel that the little effort I can make, is appreciated in the 1.5 camp..
14:42 < [anders]> from what have transpired on the mailinglist in the last few months, I would not waste one (1) second on 1.7
14:43 < [anders]> (mainly because I feel that any effort would be wasted and not appreciated one bit..)
14:44 < tcr> [anders]: you may not feel offended by everything. I did this experience myself some weeks ago.. As long as you keep friendly and maybe apell the other person to keep friendly as well..
14:44 < tcr> words are said very quickly
14:44 < tcr> but can hurt like fists, indeed!
14:46 < [anders]> tcr: agreed, but I have not posted much in the last few months, mainly because I feel it would be a) wasted time and b) not appreciated
14:46 < [anders]> nothing has been said against me, but the atmosphere is such that I wonder why I am still subscribed.
14:47 < [anders]> in a way perhaps the mailing list should be split so that there is a generic rock list, one for 1.5 and one for 1.7
14:47 < [anders]> at least that way, I would not have to read the crud regarding 1.7 unless I explicitly subscribed to the list..
14:48 < tcr> the branch was done too early maybe
14:48 < tcr> huebi doesn't seem to keep track in any way, and the 1.7 people doesn't seem to respect this fact as it is
14:48 < [anders]> at the moment, I do work on a software project.. I see the mistakes being made.. the branch at 1.5.12 should not have been done..
14:49 < [anders]> efforts should have been pooled and 1.5 should have been made stable before branching..
14:49 < [anders]> the branch could have been made a few weeks before 1.6 was to be released.
14:50 < fake> [anders]: in fact, that was done.
14:50 < tcr> afaik, that was thought of 1.5.^1
14:50 < tcr> .12
14:50 < fake> [anders]: 1.5.12 was ment to be stabilized, and 1.7 spawned off.
14:51 < [anders]> so what happened? 1.5.12 was ages ago..
14:51 < [anders]> I know that efforts was made to tidy up in the code tree..
14:51 < fake> 1.5.12 was in dec 2001. 1.7 started after we discussed the issues alltogether on 18C3
14:51 < fake> and hubei volunteered to maintain the 1.5->1.6 stabilizing
14:51 < rolla> re
14:51 < [anders]> re rolla
14:52 -!- capone [~capone@208.165.55.133] has joined #rocklinux
14:52 < capone> haea
14:53 < [anders]> Okay, so when 1.6 was still in the making long after it supposedly was to be available, the 1.7 team rather than help and get it finished, decided to ignore it..?
14:54 < tcr> things like a communication level between the branches haven't ever been made
14:54 < fake> [anders]: no. that was decided at 18c3. huebi will stabilize 1.5, the other will move on to 1.7. some people volunteered to help huebi.
14:54 < tcr> e.g. the job of updating pkg. must be done twice, one time in 1.5 and the second time in 1.7
14:55 < fake> i don't see al the "problems" others seem to see.
14:56 < tcr> that 1.6 is delaying for a long time, _is_ a problem, isnt it?
14:56 < fake> 1.5 was ment to stabilize, which takes huebi a bit longer than originally intended. no big deal, he's not paid by anyone, and may move at his speed.
14:56 < tcr> right
14:57 < fake> 1.7 spawned and implements new, shiny, great features not possible in 1.5.
14:57 < fake> and that's all.
14:58 < fake> rene is getting on my nerves too, with his consequent "we already have this in 1.7"-mails, but ... well, that's rene.
14:58 < capone> is 1.6 released already ? how does that goes ?
14:58 < fake> capone: nope, it is not.
14:58 < fake> (afaik) ;)
14:59 < capone> k, thanx fake
14:59 < fake> capone: but the newest 1.5.xx-builds a pretty stable alreay
14:59 < fake> *already
14:59 < capone> what's huebi_ still fixing ?
14:59 < capone> or adding
15:00 < blindcoder> mostly ports
15:00 < fake> capone: backwards compaitibily down to 386.
15:00 < fake> and ports, yes.
15:00 < blindcoder> sparc64 needs gnome 2.1 for example
15:01 < capone> ic
15:01 < blindcoder> because <=2.0 dn't compile
15:06 < fake> yuck.
15:06 < fake> enigmail needs mozilla-source.. blaeh.
15:09 < blindcoder> hehe
15:11 < fake> no singed message then ... blaeh.
15:12 < blindcoder> mutt!
15:12 < blindcoder> mutt!
15:12 < blindcoder> mutt!
15:12 < blindcoder> :)
15:15 * [anders] finished whinging for the time being.. Will probably go and buy SuSE for the laptop anyway....
15:15 < [anders]> I can install ROCK in parallel once I get it to build..
15:15 < [anders]> build = work and I am happy with it. :)
15:30 < owl> someone has seen the "3com 905tx" component in kernel 2.4.19??
15:30 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD9E492C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sphos")
15:30 < blindcoder>    owl sure
15:31 < blindcoder> It's called 3C59x IIRC
15:31 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD958D8CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:31 < capone> ive just received a mail from knopper.. wanna see me in linuxtag :p. seems they confused me, im not liiving there :p
15:32 < capone> hi owl , tcr
15:32 < esden> re hi all
15:32 < esden> puhh ... back on net ...
15:32 < esden> blindcoder: when are you driving to IN ?
15:33 < capone> i esden
15:33 < esden> hi capone 
15:33 < owl> ah. ok. thx
15:33 < owl> hi capone
15:33 -!- atheist_ [~capchaos@pD904859D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:35 < capone> hi capchaos
15:35 -!- atheist_ is now known as capchaos
15:35 < blindcoder> esden: 1753
15:35 < capchaos> hi capone :)
15:35 < blindcoder> 19:00 in IN 1915 @bitz
15:36 < esden> urgh ... too late >_<
15:36 * -> esden shooting blindcoder's jobgiver >_<
15:37 < blindcoder> sorry
15:37 < blindcoder> can you eposit the machine @bitz so I can just pick it up together with Zeros?
15:38 < esden> hmm .. will be difficult ... but I will try to ... I will call you if I manage to do so
15:38 < esden> otherwise I will bring it with me ... but where ?
15:38 < esden> what has fake said
15:38 < esden> is he joining us ?
15:39 < blindcoder> I don't think so, I'll asx him on the train
15:40 < blindcoder> just bring it to me
15:40 < blindcoder> almost everything is prepared
15:40 < esden> ok ... I can not promise that I will stay long too
15:40 -!- Eisofen [~grunz@p50817D0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:40 < blindcoder> All I need is one Monitor and a NIC
15:40 < Eisofen> moin
15:40 < blindcoder> hi Eisofen
15:40 < capone> hi Eisofen
15:40 < esden> argh ... monitor ... are you crazy ?
15:40 -!- Mike1 [~mike@odin.informatica.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
15:40 < Mike1> moin
15:40 < capone> Mike1
15:40 < esden> I will NOT bring the monitor !
15:40 < esden> .
15:41 < esden> hi Eisofen , Mike1 
15:41 < blindcoder> esden: I will get them from Zero, don't panic :)
15:41 < Mike1> hi all
15:41 < litost> moin Mike1!
15:41 < blindcoder> hi Mike1
15:41 < Mike1> owly awake?
15:42 < esden> puhh 
15:42 < esden> sun monitors are heavy ...
15:42 < esden> ok ... I have to go now
15:42 < Mike1> esden: who cares? they are cool!
15:42 < Eisofen> quite heavy.. -> Sony...
15:42 < Mike1> cu esden
15:42 < esden> Mike1: yes ok ... but I do not like to transport them ...
15:43 < blindcoder> esden: yes, I lifted one to a 2.20 meter high plate
15:43 < Mike1> esden: so get blindcoder to carry them you just watch
15:43 < blindcoder> MIKE!!
15:43 < Mike1> lol :)
15:43 < esden> I refuse to transport them if it is not _REALLY_ nessesary
15:43 -!- term_emu [~pm@pD9E336DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:43 < esden> muahaha
15:43 < blindcoder> I am young and need to take care of my health!
15:43 < esden> that is a good idea !
15:44 < esden> ROFL
15:44 < blindcoder> esden: don't you DARE
15:44 < esden> muahaha
15:44 < Mike1> blindcoder: that will help you imprive ur health and make ur muscles grow
15:44 < blindcoder> esden: is older and thus he has a lower lifespan in front of him
15:44 < Mike1> so esden dont hesitate on doing it :)
15:44 < blindcoder> so he doesn't need to care as much as me
15:44 < capone> hi term_emu
15:45 * Eisofen lives on 3rd floor.. an got one 21" and 20" SUN..
15:45 < esden> *headshake* you all are evil ...
15:45 < Eisofen> and NO elevator...
15:45 < esden> but that is nothing new I think
15:45 < Mike1> Eisofen: nice workout?
15:45 < owl> hi Mike1
15:45 < esden> lol
15:45 < esden> Mike1: well said
15:45 < Mike1> esden: *vbeg*
15:45 < owl> problems fixed? and in cvs?
15:45 < Eisofen> hrhr
15:45 * blindcoder has 3 SUN Monitars (20") two HPs (21") and a "normal" 17" monitor on his 2nd Floor
15:45 < Mike1> hi owlita
15:46 < Mike1> owl i am going to fo it in a moment
15:46 < owl> ok
15:46 < esden> blindcoder: when you want to loose some kilos ... carry them up and down your house ;-)
15:46 < blindcoder> esden: thanks, did that yesterday
15:46 < Mike1> bwahaha
15:46 < esden> lol
15:46 < esden> ok ... I have to go now
15:46 < blindcoder> moveed almost all the Sun Monitors across 3 floors
15:46 < capone> cya esden
15:46 < esden> blindcoder: cu l8er ...
15:47 < Mike1> cu esdy
15:47 < blindcoder> esden: bye
15:47 < esden> and the others too
15:47 < esden> some time in the future ;-)
15:47 < blindcoder> be left back
15:47 < Eisofen> cu esden
15:47 -!- atheist [~capchaos@pD9048519.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:47 < owl> bye esden
15:50 < blindcoder> back
15:51 < Mike1> re blindcoder
15:58 < blindcoder> booring day today >_<
15:58 < owl> blindcoder: urg... we should change... i'm working on 4 pcs now... parallel!
15:58 * blindcoder now alone in the office having hotline duty
15:59 < blindcoder> our boss calls it "Manager On Duty" MOD for short
15:59 < blindcoder> Wer dubbed it "Master Of Destruction"
16:00 < blindcoder> not a single call all day >_<
16:00 < blindcoder>  one TroubleTicket and some visiting collegues stealing my coffee
16:01 < blindcoder>  oh wait! theres a TT *jump*
16:02 < fake> blindcoder : when do you plan on starting the session tonight?
16:02 < fake> i might bring my ss5 along
16:03 < blindcoder> fake: as soon as I have installed the K6
16:03 -!- Lorini [~Lorini@pD9506BC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:03 < capone> who could explain me br~iefly how does ROCK flistwr works ?
16:03 < blindcoder> so I'll be in IN on 19 go to bitz get esdens machine go to Zero get his machine go KFC eat something then go home
16:04 < blindcoder> then install the K6 with 1.7 generic and then get started
16:04 < blindcoder> the nfs-roots and kernel are set up already
16:05 < blindcoder> the room is ready and while 1.7 installs I will set up the network
16:05 < blindcoder> all in all I hope to boot the Suns aroun 2130
16:05 < blindcoder> capone: AFAIK it wrapps around file system calls and generates a list out of them
16:06 < capone> doesnt it take a long time ? parsing ?
16:06 < capone> cause during a build many libraries are called, and compilation egenrates a lot of temporary files and objetcs
16:07 < capone> and.. how are fopen calls controlled by other processes ?
16:07 < blindcoder> the files during compilation aren't in build&/*/root
16:08 < capone> well, sure
16:08 < blindcoder> other processes aren't affected. It's a LD_PRELOAD thing
16:08 < capone> ic
16:09 < capone> how do new files are parsed ? using stat.h variables ?
16:10 * [anders] has now ordered SuSE 8.1 Pro box set..
16:11 < [anders]> lo Mike1
16:11 < Mike1> OMG
16:11 < capone> ill have a deeper look, thanx blindcoder
16:11 < capone> :)
16:11 < Mike1> [anders]: !!
16:11 < Eisofen> suSE???
16:11 < Mike1> God Morgon [anders]
16:11 < Eisofen> whuzzat?
16:11 < [anders]> Mike1: I require a stable distribution to go on my new HDD in the laptop..
16:11 * Mike1 can't believe this
16:11 < [anders]> I can parallel install ROCK at a later date..
16:12 < capone> sth more..
16:12 < [anders]> God Eftermiddag Mike1  :)
16:12 < Eisofen> why pay for a borked linux-distro, if debian is for free?
16:12 < capone> with this LD_PRELOAD thing. one controls things made by a specific process ? in this cxase ROCK build scripts
16:12 < capone> ?
16:12 < [anders]> Eisofen: Debian is alright, but I know SuSE slightly better..
16:13 < Eisofen> hmpf..
16:13 < [anders]> Eisofen: and SuSE has got v. good support..
16:14 < [anders]> Besides, it is temporary. (Well, relatively anyway..)
16:15 < Eisofen> [anders]: well... I wouldn't use it, but it's up to you.. and I don't like this flamewars about linux-distros....
16:16 < blindcoder> re... damn proxy
16:16 < blindcoder> capone: LD_PRELOAD make ld link an additinal library into a program before execution
16:17 < capone> ok
16:17 < [anders]> Eisofen: I am not abandoning rock 1.5... but what I need for my laptop is stability and easy management... rock doesn't do that yet..
16:17 < blindcoder> that way one can override some functions
16:17 < capone> cool
16:17 < [anders]> my box at home can be tweaked more..
16:17 < blindcoder> transconnect works that way, too
16:17 * Mike1 considering other options as well
16:18 < Eisofen> [anders]: right.. 1.5.19 from iso wont boot here :-(
16:18 * Mike1 doesn't like the way 1.7 is going to ..
16:20 < capone> blindcoder: but.. da u use flwrapper.so in LD_PRELOAD only during ROCK builds right? what i mean is that one could use LD_PRELOAD only for the processes started by build script.
16:20 < tcr> in general it works for every build
16:21 < tcr> but the build script are taking a lotta work over
16:21 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD958D8CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("brb")
16:22 < blindcoder> capone: AFAIK this is the case
16:22 < capone> good
16:22 < blindcoder> LD_PRELOAD is set before the build and unset after
16:23 < capone> yes, only in the build environment is this variable set
16:24 < capone> sounds very interesting. having a deeper look right now
16:25 < capone> are rock 1.5 cvs flist sources the same than 1.7 ? or which are more updated ?
16:26 < blindcoder> phew... good question... I've never really looke dinto the code
16:27 < blindcoder> *of the wrapper
16:27 < capone> what id like to see is the parsing
16:28 < capone> of cnewer and newer files
16:28 < [anders]> Eisofen: I just need an update to what I am running now, and SuSE I know will do what I want..
16:32 < th> 16:17:21 < [anders]> Eisofen: I am not abandoning rock 1.5... but what I need for my laptop is stability and easy management... rock doesn't do that yet..
16:32 < th> hmm
16:32 < th> [anders]: i can't agree
16:33 < capone> hi th
16:34 < th> hi capone
16:35 < [anders]> th: I need to be able to update the entire system in one go, without worrying wether it will be broken afterwards..
16:35 < owl> uff.... i'm dying!
16:35 < [anders]> th: for most things, rock is easy to use.. but there are a few things that could be better, until they are there, I'll have to use SuSE on my laptop..
16:37 -!- Here [Here@host213-122-83-63.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #rocklinux
16:37 -!- Here [Here@host213-122-83-63.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #rocklinux ()
16:37 < [anders]> so once and for all, I am not abandoning rock 1.5.. I will carry on helping huebi as I have time spare, just as I have up until now.
16:38 < [anders]> I want to see rock 1.6 released and I will use it on my server..
16:40 < th> you won't be able to update 1.6 in one go without worrying wether it will be broken afterwards either
16:40 < [anders]> just understand my position, I have not got unlimited time. I now have to make choices I did not think I would have to. But I require something that takes less time tinkering with to get working on my laptop. I need it for work, and I have had to look closely at my priorities for what I require there..
16:40 < [anders]> th: I know that..
16:40 < [anders]> th: but I will not put 1.6 on a box to update it now and then either..
16:41 < th> [anders]: so why not using 1.5.19?
16:41 < [anders]> the laptop is a special case..
16:41 < th> ahh
16:41 < th> ok. so u would put 1.5.19 to your server too?
16:41 < [anders]> 1.5.19 probably yes.. at the moment it is running Debian 3.0
16:41 < th> i have rock running productive on my laptop and laptops i install for FhG
16:43 < [anders]> th: I have currently Rock 1.4.0 on my laptop, installed there over 18 months ago.
16:44 < [anders]> it is now creaking at the seams and I have to do something. I have a new disk (60GB 5400rpm IBM disk) and I will install onto that.
16:44 * owl goes home
16:44 < owl> bye
16:45 < owl> cu later
16:45 < [anders]> cya owl
16:45 -!- owl [~mail-spam@213.68.39.1] has quit ("back in some hours")
16:45 -!- capchaos [~capchaos@pD904859D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("brb")
16:46 < [anders]> there is no question that the SuSE install will be modified quite a bit as well.. I might even use my server at home to rebuild the packages for a p-III CPU rather than the std pentium compile they have now.. :)
16:54 < blindcoder> *yawn*
16:54 < blindcoder> time to leave
16:54 < blindcoder> see you
16:54 < [anders]> blindcoder: cya
16:55 < Mike1> yasumi nasai blindcoder
17:10 * [anders] <- off.. got things to do..
17:12 < capone> cya [anders]
17:14 -!- tcr [~tobrit@p50813FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
17:14 < Mike1> welcome tcr
17:14 < tcr> re all
17:14 < capone> re thalerim
17:15 < capone> umm.
17:15 < capone> in Build-Pkg..
17:16 * Mike1 see's capone asking a lot but nor building ...
17:17 < capone> when ROCK_FL_WRAPPER is set to 0.. rock uses a simple find command line which makes difference between new and modified files , runnig the main directories in the $ROOT target.. but..
17:17 < capone> it ignores empty directories
17:17 < capone> too
17:17 < capone> i think, it doesnt have to do that
17:19 < Mike1> capone: send a patch with a proposal on how you think it should be
17:19 < tcr> no patch, just ask
17:19 < Mike1> tcr: i would like to see some code for a better way to do it
17:20 < tcr> of course. Regardines lines should be quoted...
17:20 < tcr> *garding
17:21 * fake -> train
17:21 < fake> l8ers
17:21 < tcr> cu
17:21 < Mike1> tcr: like Ritchey once said... "Don't talk, just show me the code"
17:21 < Mike1> *gg*
17:21 < Mike1> cu fake
17:21 < tcr> _of course_ but not in form of a patch
17:22 < Mike1> tcr: i would apply the patch and know exactly what to look at
17:22 < tcr> uh
17:22 < Mike1> why would i wanna get all the Build-Pkg script by mail?
17:22 < tcr> huh?!
17:23 < Mike1> tcr: i am talking about capone's issue
17:23 < tcr> you should print lines concerning to the question
17:23 < tcr> s,print,quote,
17:23 < Mike1> <capone> when ROCK_FL_WRAPPER is set to 0.. rock uses a simple find command line which makes difference between new and modified files , runnig the main directories in the $ROOT target.. but..
17:23 < Mike1> <capone> it ignores empty directories
17:23 < Mike1> <capone> too
17:23 < Mike1> <capone> i think, it doesnt have to do that
17:23 < Mike1> <Mike1> capone: send a patch with a proposal on how you think it should be
17:23 < Mike1> tcr: happy?
17:24 < Mike1> ping capone
17:24 < tcr> he _thinks_
17:24 < Mike1> ok so capone how do you _think_ it should be?
17:24 < Mike1> :)
17:24 < tcr> it doesn't matter much, but i dont think clifford will be pleased with sending a patch for asking a question
17:25 < tcr> because it's a _question_
17:25 < Mike1> so send a mail to the list and ask the question :)
17:31 * tcr has got a terrible cold :/
17:31 < Mike1> poor tcr
17:31 * Mike1 pokes capone with a stick
17:31 < Mike1> capone: are you alive?
17:31 < tcr> poke it into his righteye
17:31 < tcr> softly ;P
17:32 < Mike1> tcr: softly and deeply?
17:32 < Mike1> *ggg*
17:33 < tcr> good point
17:33 < Mike1> hehe its fun, tcr now you try it
17:34 < capone> re
17:34 < Mike1> *gg*
17:35 < tcr> no, in my current constitution i can't do it.. if i sneeze, the snick may slip!
17:35 < tcr> stick
17:35 < capone> hey
17:35 < capone> sorry
17:35 < capone> this lab crashed :p
17:35 < capone> re
17:35 < capone> well
17:35 < tcr> don't do such bad things
17:36 < capone> well
17:36 < capone> some packages create empty directories
17:36 < capone> like xmms creates empty dir for themes
17:36 < capone> and some other packages also does
17:36 < capone> i mean just removing an extra option in flist
17:37 < capone> flist/'find cmd'
17:37 < tcr> are you talking 'bout 1.5 or 1.7?
17:37 < capone> 1.5
17:37 < capone> is there diff between them ?
17:38 < tcr> what file:line?
17:39 < capone> mom
17:42 -!- zer0_o^ [~zer0_o@217.14.64.20] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:43 < capone> lemme make some tests
17:55 -!- blindcod1r [~blindcode@pD9E4FFC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:00 < capone> blindcod1r
18:06 -!- Eisofen [~grunz@p50817D0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:14 -!- blindcoder [~blindcode@p50800C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:34 < capone> umm,nope
18:34 < capone> i was wrong
18:34 < capone> sorry
18:34 < capone> :)
18:37 < Mike1> !
18:38 -!- tcr [~tobrit@p50813FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sphos")
18:39 * capone waiting for tcr ...
18:40 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD958DD73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:42 < capone> re tcr
18:45 < capone> cya latah
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18:47 -!- hackbard [~hackbard@p50807F91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:48 -!- capone [~capone@208.165.55.133] has left #rocklinux ()
18:49 -!- hackbard is now known as qubit
18:49 < qubit> ha!
19:20 -!- cap^one [~capone@208.165.55.133] has joined #rocklinux
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20:17 < tcr> re all
20:30 -!- Freak [freak@pD9E39C45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:42 -!- blindcod1r is now known as blindcoder
20:42 < blindcoder> hi hi and rehi
20:50 -!- owl [~mail-spam@B5a7e.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
20:50 < owl> re
20:50 < tcr> re blindcoder, owl
20:50 < owl> hi tcr, blindcoder
20:51 < owl> Mike1: did you already update the CVS?
20:52 -!- cap^one is now known as capone
20:52 < capone> re
20:52 < blindcoder> SWEET! NETHACK IS IN ROCK 1.7!
20:52 < owl> blindcoder: *g*
20:52 < owl> re capone
20:52 < blindcoder> hi owl
20:53 < capone> http://www.worldofescher.com/store/posters5.html
20:54 -!- tcr [~tobrit@p50812944.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sphos")
20:56 -!- tcr [~tobrit@p50813C31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:08 < rolla> jj
21:09 < fake> re
21:11 < rolla> Fake
21:11 < capone> wb fake , tcr , rolla
21:12 < owl> re fake
21:14 < fake> WAAAAH
21:14 < fake> WHAT THE HELL
21:14 < capone> umm.
21:14 < fake> argh...
21:14 < capone> why is 00-dirtree package useful in ROCK ?
21:14 < fake> w3m is compiled with image-support in current 1.7 per default :(
21:14 < capone> why make a package of 00-dirtree ?
21:14 < fake> capone: to assure /usr is not created by a package you might not install
21:15 < fake> for example
21:15 < capone> uh ?
21:15 * fake just was shocked... images showing up in my w3m-xterm... *shivers*
21:15 -!- zer0_o [~zer0_o@194.230.119.26] has joined #rocklinux
21:15 < capone> it doesnt make sense for me yet..
21:16 < fake> capone: in a pkg build the created files are noted, and they are what the pkg consists of.
21:16 < capone> :-/
21:16 -!- hackbard [~hackbard@p50807F91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:16 < fake> so if packet xyz is compiled first, and it, for example creates /usr/share
21:16 < capone> yes
21:16 < fake> then /usr/share will only be on your system if you have that package installed
21:16 < capone> right
21:17 < capone> but this is during build, right ?
21:17 < fake> usually you want /usr/share anyways, wether there's something in there or not
21:17 < capone> ah ok
21:17 < capone> now i got u
21:17 < fake> even if you don't install that package
21:17 < fake> so there... hehe ;)
21:17 < capone> < fake> even if you don't install that package :)
21:18 < capone> thanx fake
21:20 -!- tcr [~tobrit@p50813C31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sphos")
21:20 < capone> sure
21:20 < capone>  /proc /tmp /dev wont be created by other packages
21:20 * capone dump
21:28 < blindcoder> fake: ping
21:31 < fake> pong
21:32 < blindcoder> when will you be here?
21:33 < fake> blindcoder: i'm scanning my worksheets from bs quickly
21:33 < fake> i just found out that there is a driver for it *jumparound*
21:34 < blindcoder> sweet
21:34 < blindcoder> esden is already here
21:34 < blindcoder> if you can, bring a SUN Monitor with you :)
21:36 < fake> no way
21:36 < blindcoder> damn...
21:36 < fake> i'm not gonna pull this thing anywhere
21:37 < blindcoder> I'm short one monitor
21:37 < blindcoder> okay, we'll plug around then :)
21:37 < fake> you don't need a monitor on any box... ever heard the magic word 'rlogin' ?
21:39 < blindcoder> I have 4 Monitors now, I want themw to show some things if for nothing else than fun
21:39 * owl --> bed
21:39 < owl> have fun. gn8. cu
21:39 < blindcoder> n8
21:39 -!- owl [~mail-spam@B5a7e.pppool.de] has quit ("zzZZZZz")
21:50 < fake> narf.
21:50 < fake> i have to screw the scanner open and clean the glass
21:50 < blindcoder> why?
22:09 < fake> because it is dirty and gives me pixel-swarms
22:17 < blindcoder> hmmm okay
22:40 -!- bluefire [~bluefire@p5081747E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:49 -!- rxr [~rene@port-212-202-200-98.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:50 < fake> aaaw!
22:50 < fake> finished.
22:50 < fake> blindcoder: ping
22:53 -!- rxr [~rene@port-212-202-220-84.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has joined #rocklinux
22:53 < blindcoder> pong
22:53 < capone> hi rxr
22:54 < blindcoder> fake: how's it going?
22:57 < fake> blindcoder: finished.
22:57 < fake> blindcoder: am i still welcome?
22:57 < blindcoder> sure!
22:57 < blindcoder> call me on the phone when you're in front of my house
22:58 < fake> then i'll now pack up navi and the 100NIC and drive over, see you in 15 min.
22:58 < esden> re hi all
22:58 < fake> hi esden & cu soon ;)
22:58 < blindcoder> okay, see ya
22:59 < esden> hopefully fake ... I only want you to be helthy ;-)
23:15 < capone> hi esden
23:17 < Mike1> esden: still here?
23:18 -!- capone is now known as d3mian
23:28 -!- ringo [~ringo@co116627-a.almel1.ov.home.nl] has quit ("changing servers")
23:29 < esden> Mike1: yes ...
23:32 -!- rolla [~Der@134.244.181.87] has quit ("leaving")
23:32 -!- rxr_ [~rene@port-212-202-168-101.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has joined #rocklinux
23:34 < d3mian> Dipl.-Ing. Klaus Knopper                              Dansenberger Straße 44
23:34 < d3mian> Phone+Fax: +49 631 51504                              67661 Kaiserslautern
23:35 < d3mian> http://www.knopper.net/                               GERMANY
23:35 < d3mian> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
23:35 < d3mian> LinuxTag 2003 - Europes largest Linux Expo            Where .com meets .org
23:35 < d3mian> Phone +49 180 5 LINUXTAG                              Fax +49 180 5 LINUXFAX
23:35 < d3mian> http://www.linuxtag.org/                              Technical Solutions
23:35 < d3mian> dman mouse
23:35 < d3mian> ouch !!
23:35 < d3mian> sorry :p
23:35 < Mike1> d3mian: !! wtf!1
23:35 < Mike1> arrg
23:38 < litost> ok, i'm going home.  have a great weekend everyone!
23:39 < d3mian> same for u litost
23:39 < Mike1> cu litost
23:39 -!- litost [~user@phynp6.phy-astr.gsu.edu] has quit ("beertime!!! =)")
23:44 -!- rxr [~rene@port-212-202-220-84.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
--- Log closed Sat Nov 16 00:00:58 2002