--- Log opened Sun Jan 12 00:00:03 2003
--- Day changed Sun Jan 12 2003
00:25 -!- demian [~hdw_user@196.40.64.229] has joined #rocklinux
00:26 < demian> hi
00:26 < tcr> hi demian
00:26 < demian> could someone tell me a location to get mkdofs package ? drock's one is old :(
00:27 < fake> hi demian
00:27 < fake> tried on tuxfinder.com ?
00:27 < demian> k
00:29 < demian> this is lame, mkdofs cant format dos partitions bigger than 4290M
00:29 < tcr> muhahaha
00:29 < demian> :(
00:29 < demian> but windows can
00:29 < tcr> dude that's a restriction of the filesystem itself ?
00:30 < demian> but if i format from windows, linux cant read that partition :(, only if i format it with mkdosfs, win and linux can read it :(
00:30 < demian> dunno
00:30 < fake> demian: tcr is right
00:31 < fake> mkdosfs does the right thing
00:31 < demian> umm
00:31 < fake> by not allowing that.
00:31 < demian> then, i am unable to mount win partitions bigger than that amount ?
00:31 < tcr> demian: i guess windows automatecally convert them to fat32
00:31 < fake> usually not - the kernel drive should handle it
00:32 < demian> umm
00:32 < fake> driver, that is
00:32 < demian> mkdosfs -F 32 will help ?
00:32 < fake> *schulternzuck*
00:32 < tcr> shrugs ;)
00:33 < fake> no idea... you tell us ;)
00:33 < fake> the music on #WOPN is... pretty... err.. changing.
00:34 < demian> worked..but..
00:34 < demian> -F FAT-size:
00:34 < demian> ....
00:34 < demian> Otherwise, it is normally not useful, as mkdosfs automatically selects the
00:34 < demian> preferred FAT size for your filesystem.
00:34 < demian> mkdofs man page
00:35 < fake> ...
00:35 < demian> i though mkdofs will do automatically conversion to fat32 cause fat16 doesnt work with smaller partitions. :/
00:36 < fake> the fat size is selected based on the partition type?
00:36 < fake> might that be it?
00:36 < demian> it is lba
00:36 < fake> no, i mean the 'type' hex (83 linux, 82 linux-swap...)
00:37 < demian> win 95 fat 32 (lba)
00:37 < fake> hum, then it should be formatted as fat32...
00:37 < fake> strange.
00:37 < demian> with not lba enabled, same problem
00:37 < fake> (but who needs it - it's an old, out-dated filesystem...)
00:37 < fake> *g*
00:38 < demian> lol
00:38 < demian> sure
00:40 < demian> if i could.. i will do an umm... : for i in `fdisk -l | grep FAT32 | cut -d' ' -f 1` ; do mke2fs -j $i ; done.......... but my i share my computer with some windows boys
00:41 < fake> for guy in `ls -1 windowsboys/*' ; do dos2unix $guy ; done ; rm -rf windowsguys ;
00:41 < fake> err
00:41 < fake> rm -rf windowsboys ;
00:42 < demian> hehe :)
00:43 < tcr> hm
00:43 < tcr> <demian> but if i format from windows, linux cant read that partition :(, only if i format it with mkdosfs, win and linux can read it :( <-- i'd try to get this work
00:43 < tcr> if you just were not so spare with information, ...
00:43 < demian> yes... and i dunno why
00:44 < Be-El> demain: perhabs the windows format is creating a ntfs partition, and your linux kernel does not know how to handle ntfs
00:45 < demian> no!, it is fat32 /me using win98
00:45 < demian> :(
00:45 < Be-El> demian: does your kernel support fat32/vfat ?
00:47 < fake> well, that would be hard ;)
00:47 < Be-El> demian: cat /proc/filesystems
00:48 < demian> sure, i already have other fat32 partitions. but i wonder why i am able to read fat32 partitions formatted with mkdosfs and windows, but not partitions bigger than 4290M formatted only with windows (format d:..) . they work again when formatted with mkdosfs :s
00:49 < demian> hehe, dunt worry, i know how my kernel work ;)
00:52 < demian> umm, a cvs server wasnt nothing difficult as i though :/
00:54 < fake> just an entry in /etc/inetd.conf and a cvs init, eh? ;)
00:56 < demian> umm.. i run it standalone, but ill try with inetd
00:56 < fake> oh, so no pserver, i assume ;)
00:57 < demian> setting CVS_RSH variable to 'ssh' will be only neccesary to force cvs transmissions to work under a ssh tunnel ?
00:58 < demian> 2401/tcp   open        cvspserver
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01:03 < demian> is there a way to tell dyndns to update ur new ppp0 IP without access dyndns http page ?
01:04 < Be-El> demian: there's a perl script afaik
01:05 < demian> where could one get it ?
01:06 < Be-El> http://clients.dyndns.org/unix.php?service=dyndns
01:07 < demian> thanx
01:07 < rolla_rock> re
01:08 < demian> is there a way to avoid public to connect via telnet to my mail server (telnet mail 25) and send messages without authorization?
01:08 < rolla_rock> yes to turn off relay
01:08 < rolla_rock> what type of mail server do you run?
01:08 < demian> sebdmail
01:09 < rolla_rock> then it is easy to turn off
01:09 < demian> mail from: root@mail
01:09 < demian> rcpt to: x@mail.com
01:09 < demian> data
01:09 < demian> > this is lame :(
01:09 < demian> ^`D
01:09 < demian> relay-domains file ?
01:10 < rolla_rock> nope sendmail.cf
01:10 < Be-El> demian: either disable relaying (or restrict it to your internal network), or close the port on your firewall
01:10 < fake> then he ould not recieve mail
01:10 < demian> it will be
01:10 < fake> could
01:10 < demian> it will be public
01:11 < Be-El> hehe, ok, that's a point ;-)
01:11 < fake> no demian@my-own-server.dyndns.org then ;)
01:11 < demian> but i want to restringe not allowed users to connect to that port and play with my server
01:11 < demian> already exists as demian@demian.homelinux.net :)
01:12 < fake> there is no way to tell if a port is being connected by a hacker or a mailserver before the connection is established (perhaps maybe in /dev/future, but that's experimental ;)
01:12 < demian> rolla_rock: sendmail.cf .. how ? i try to never touch that file :p.. unless i know what i do
01:12 < rolla_rock> :)
01:12 < demian> :)
01:13 < fake> thus, packet filtering on sendmail ports is almost useless
01:13 < rolla_rock> what unix do you run?
01:13 < Be-El> demian: ok, use postfix
01:13 < fake> (except if you have a dmz - never accept mails from that range...)
01:14 < demian> ic
01:14 < fake> qmail ;)
01:14 < demian> exim ?
01:14 < demian> rolla_rock: linux
01:14 < rolla_rock> which one redhat rock, suse?
01:14 < fake> (the moment of truth..)
01:14 < fake> *grabs_knife*
01:15 < fake> j/k
01:16 < demian> umm
01:16 < demian> a rock
01:17 < fake> good man.
01:18 < fake> you know what is good for you, your health, your family and your charisma.
01:18 < rolla_rock> :)
01:19 < rolla_rock> fake how much do you know about alpha?
01:19 < fake> nothing to negative knowledge . i compensate that with mips knowledge ;P
01:20 < fake> no sorry, no idea about alpha. that piotr's toy ;)
01:20 < rolla_rock> dang
01:20 < fake> well, in fact there is something i know about alpha.
01:21 < rolla_rock> all the alpha boys are not around today
01:21 < fake> bathing an alpha in beer will not help.
01:21 < rolla_rock> :p
01:21 < fake> c'mon, relax.
01:21 < rolla_rock> yes fake that is why I send you the mips box and not the alpha
01:21 < demian> i left mips for a while.. a bit complicated for my current level :(
01:21 < fake> rolla_rock: i am at it right now
01:21 < fake> i finally found two patches for glib-2.3.1 that should make it compile
01:22 < rolla_rock> sweet
01:22 < fake> glibc
01:22 < rolla_rock> I want a picture of it running rock once it is there
01:22 < rolla_rock> I will put it on my website
01:22 < fake> yeah... and i got a cobalt raq2 from sun microsystems in addition to your fine challenge
01:22 < rolla_rock> coblat is mips?
01:22 < fake> rolla_rock: the picture would look no different - it has no gfx, remember.. ?
01:22 < rolla_rock> fake: wait till I get the rock alpha cluster going
01:23 < fake> rolla_rock: cobalt build the "2" series (Raq2/CacheRaq2/Qube2) with an R5000
01:23 < rolla_rock> obh right only serial console :(
01:23 < fake> but i might get a serial console to put ontop
01:23 < fake> ;)
01:24 < rolla_rock> I have one of those
01:24 < rolla_rock> it still have no other use
01:25 < fake> we have one here at bitz, too, i might lend it
01:25 < fake> borrow
01:25 < fake> not lend ;)
01:26 < rolla_rock> ;)
01:34 < rolla_rock> wie spaet ist es fake?
01:36 < fake> we germans are no longer allowed to talk german on the channel
01:36 < fake> but you may, of course ;)
01:36 < demian> lol
01:36 < rolla_rock> :p
01:37 < fake> and it's 01:35 here (sunday, A.M.)
01:37 < rolla_rock> wow
01:37 < rolla_rock> it is 18:35
01:40 < fake> well, then have a nice saturday evening ;)
01:40 < rolla_rock> thanks
01:40 < rolla_rock> I will
01:40 < rolla_rock> I must get a copy of a 1.7 ISO for my laptop
01:40 < demian> Sat Jan 11 18:41:31
01:41 < demian> day is only starting here ;-)
01:44 < demian> From: root <root@scar.evilsoft.co.cr>
01:44 < demian> Message-Id: <200301111838.h0BIcTLo001158@scar.evilsoft.co.cr>
01:44 < demian> X-Authentication-Warning: scar.evilsoft.co.cr: scar.evilsoft.co.cr [192.168.1.1] didn't use HELO protocol
01:44 < demian> Status: R
01:44 < demian> i ve hacked sendmail server :p
01:44 < demian> does this says it is a fake mail ?
01:45 < demian> could someone cause spam sending fake mails this way ?
01:46 < fake> spam can be sent if
01:46 < fake> i send a mail, sing your server as mailserver to someone else on another server.
01:46 < fake> we can try that, if you lik
01:46 < fake> like
01:47 < fake> ...using you server...
01:47 < fake> your
01:47 < fake> *argh*
01:47 < fake> (and that would also be _fake_ mails *g*)
01:48 < demian> yes
01:48 < demian> like this:
01:49 < demian> Connected to scar.evilsoft.co.cr.
01:49 < demian> Escape character is '^]'.
01:49 < demian> 220 scar.evilsoft.co.cr ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.5/8.12.5; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:49:27 -0600
01:49 < demian> mail from: root@demian.homelinux.net
01:49 < demian> 250 2.1.0 root@demian.homelinux.net... Sender ok
01:49 < demian> rcpt to: postmaster@demian.homelinux.net
01:49 < demian> 250 2.1.5 postmaster@demian.homelinux.net... Recipient ok
01:49 < demian> data
01:49 < demian> 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
01:49 < demian> uve been hacked again
01:50 < demian> .
01:50 < demian> 250 2.0.0 h0BInRLo001180 Message accepted for delivery
01:50 < demian> EOF (sorry for flooding)
01:50 < demian> thos mails dunt affect me enought, but they could disturb some innocent users, that's why i want to avoid it
01:50 < fake> yeah, that should not be possible.
01:51 < demian> sendmail seems to be very flexible, there should be a way .. but im not so skilled with sendmail.cf
01:51 < fake> uh, me neither
01:52 < demian> :s
01:52 < demian> well, i have to leave. cya all, thanx a lot
01:53 < demian> mails answer:
01:53 < demian> X-Authentication-Warning: scar.evilsoft.co.cr: scar.evilsoft.co.cr [192.168.1.1] didn't use HELO protocol
01:53 < demian> Status: R
01:53 < demian> bye
01:53 < demian> uve been hacked again
01:53 < demian> :(
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02:08 < fake> SMP: ping
02:10 < SMP> ack
02:10 < fake> SMP: good evening!
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04:12 < fake> there should be spammer bountyhunts...
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10:16 < tcr> moin blindcoder
10:20 < blindcoder> moin tcr
10:22 < blindcoder> wow... according to mrtg I had 60 kB upstream not so long ago...
10:23 * tcr doing breakfast
10:33 < snyke> moin blindcoder
10:35 < blindcoder> hi snyke
10:51 < esden> morning
10:52 < blindcoder> moin esden
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11:32 * blindcoder now testing XPde
11:42 < blindcoder> *ouch*
11:47 * blindcoder rates XPde as: Not yet usable
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12:16 < tcr> re
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13:41 < esden> blindcoder: ping
13:45 < blindcoder> esden: pong
13:47 -!- juman [~juman@c213-89-200-180.cm-upc.chello.se] has joined #rocklinux
13:47 < juman> Hello people... does anyone know where you could find a rescue iso?
13:48 < tcr> why rescue?
13:49 < juman> I want to build a rocklinux but fails to build in devfs in my kernel...
13:49 < tcr> yeah read your mail ;)
13:49 < juman> ;)
13:49 < tcr> what kernel are you using?
13:50 < juman> The latest the came with Redhat 8 and Slackware 8.1. I have to system but I am everything but a kernel guru...
13:51 < tcr> hmm adapting shouldnt actually be a problem
13:51 -!- bluefire [bluefire@pD95223D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:51 < tcr> what have you tried?
13:51 < tcr> hi bluefire
13:52 < bluefire> moin moin
13:53 * blindcoder restarting his pppd
13:53 < juman> Well it was a couple of week ago and I tryed to follow some instructions on the web but they failed. So I put my ideas on using Rock on rest. But know I read about the rock-rescue and thought I could use it but I can't find any images of it?
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13:55 < esden> re blindcoder 
13:55 < blindcod1r> esden: re
13:56 < esden> blindcod1r: update your rock tree ... and uncomment the two pkg checking lines in nethack/config.in
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13:56 < esden> ;-)
13:56 -!- blindcod1r is now known as blindcoder
13:56 < blindcoder> why?
13:57 < blindcoder> is it now done where it should be done?
13:57 < esden> yes
13:57 < blindcoder> good :)
13:57 < esden> with pkgcheck
13:57 < blindcoder> then I can also send the new licq Version in one update :)
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13:58 -!- thalerim is now known as tcr
13:58 < tcr> sorry juman :/ was thrown away
13:59 < tcr> haven't received any further messages by you
13:59 < juman> No problem... This was my last answer:  Well it was a couple of week ago and I tryed to follow some instructions on the web but they failed. So I put my ideas on using Rock on rest. But know I read about the rock-rescue and thought I could use it but I can't find any images of it?
14:01 < tcr> juman: :) well let's do it together, if you dont mind
14:02 < juman> Not at all... but if you mean recompiling a kernel I have some work todo first cause I don't have the kernel source installed...
14:03 < tcr> another option would to install a precompiled rock from and iso firstly and then build it again
14:03 < tcr> *would be
14:04 < blindcoder> esden: !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
14:04 < blindcoder> esden: PING PING PING PING PING PING  PING PING PING PINGPING  PINGPING
14:04 < tcr> lol
14:04 < tcr> ;O
14:04 < juman> Ah... that could be useful. I have a ISO with rock-ia32-i686-base+opt-1.6.0pre3.iso but haven't understood how O should install it?
14:05 < tcr> :>
14:06 < tcr> decide what you want, kerneling or installing?
14:06 < juman> tcr: but a stupid question first. On the machine I thought of installing Rock the cdbooting doesn't work (some hardware problem) but the cd works. Do you if it is possible to put the iso filesystem on a floppy and boot the cd that way?
14:07 < tcr> yup, there is a way
14:07 < tcr> wait up please
14:07 < juman> tcr: sure...
14:07 < blindcoder> esden: !!! ANSWER ME, DAMMIT!!!
14:09 < tcr> juman: the guide has an own sub-chapter about this :)
14:11 < blindcoder> Tasks: 1125 total,   2 running, 105 sleeping,   0 stopped, 1018 zombie
14:11 < blindcoder> anyone else knows what to do?
14:11 < juman> Oh... I just realized I have been seraching in the guide as a PDF but the PDF isn't searchable which is way I haven't found anything. I'll fix that first... ;)
14:12 < tcr> blindcoder: lol!!! +++
14:12 * blindcoder needs largo to hunt the Zombies...
14:12 < tcr> juman: 5. Install and there 2. Bootable Floppies
14:12 < tcr> blindcoder: search for the parent and kill it
14:14 < blindcoder> tcr: hmm... the parent died itself... and I found it was the new donitor because of mis-configuration
14:14 < tcr> blindcoder: fortunately zombies doesnt claum much memory ;)
14:14 < blindcoder> it didn't find /sbin/iptables and went haywire
14:15 < blindcoder> tcr: indeed *phew*
14:15 < blindcoder> that reminds me...
14:15 < tcr> blindcoder: well what parents do the zombie have now?
14:15 < blindcoder> Swap:        0k total,        0k used,        0k free,   122988k cached
14:15 < tcr> all the same?
14:15 < blindcoder> yes, it's all forks from one process
14:16 < juman> tcr: Ok, thanks for your help so far... I'll go offline and test this out... Cheers!
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14:17 < tcr> blindcoder: so what parent do they have now?
14:17 < blindcoder> none, they died
14:18 < tcr> zombies actually have a ppid ...
14:18 < blindcoder> yes, but I could look at it fast enough...
14:18 < tcr> ?
14:18 < blindcoder> couldn't
14:19 < tcr> ah they're eliminated now?
14:19 < blindcoder> yes
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14:22 < esden> blindcoder: pong
14:22 < tcr> fscking t-offline :(
14:23 < esden> sorry ... I was hunting ...
14:23 < esden> :-(
14:25 < blindcoder> esden: I just ahd a look at the sources of XPde
14:26 < blindcoder> esden: please try to guess the language they are written in...
14:34 < esden> ocaml ?
14:34 < blindcoder> PASCAL
14:34 < esden> ROFL
14:34 < esden> that is cool !
14:34 < blindcoder> Well, hoestly I have no fscking idea how to compile this beast...
14:34 < tcr> http://www.apple.com/hardware/video/powerbookg4bigandsmall.html
14:34 < blindcoder> I couldn't find any instructions for it
14:34 < esden> blindcoder: so find out ;-)
14:34 < tcr> 17-inch notebook
14:35 < blindcoder> and yes, I know about freepascal
14:35 < esden> hmm ... that is more difficult
14:35 < blindcoder> okay, I'm off watching anime
14:37 < esden> have fun
14:45 * tcr brb
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14:54 < fake> morgen
15:02 < esden> morgen fake 
15:02 < fake> OH MY FUCKING GOD!
15:03 < fake> == 01:08:03 =[0]=> Building base/glibc [2.3.1 1.7-snapshot].
15:03 < fake> == 01/12/03 11:26:51 =[0]=> Finished building package glibc.
15:03 < fake> IT BUILDS!
15:03 < fake> WEEEE!
15:04 * fake sending patches ;)
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15:43 < th> re
15:43 < th> huebi: pong
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16:00 < holyolli> moin
16:01 < tcr> moin holyolli
16:01 < holyolli> hi tcr
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17:22 < [n00kie^away]> Hi
17:22 < [n00kie^away]> Ich hab ne Frage =)
17:22 < owl> hi
17:22 < tcr> please speak english and i'll try to answer your question
17:22 < [n00kie^away]> ok :D
17:23 < [n00kie^away]> I wanna use rock linux
17:23 < tcr> fine
17:23 < [n00kie^away]> but
17:23 < [n00kie^away]> is rock linux hard to use (install,...) =
17:23 < [n00kie^away]> ?
17:24 < [n00kie^away]> is it like debian or harder?
17:24 < tcr> relatively, yes. It requires the user to have basic skills about unix systems, its usage and such stuff
17:24 < [n00kie^away]> ah o.O
17:25 < tcr> a pontial user should also know basics about shellscripting and about compiling
17:25 < [n00kie^away]> ahjo
17:25 < tcr> lol, debian ;). the installation is entering return 10times
17:25 < tcr> or 15
17:26 < tcr> dunno, never used it
17:26 < [n00kie^away]> German please :)
17:27 < tcr> :P ok dont mind
17:27 < tcr> was gibts`?
17:27 < [n00kie^away]> Also
17:27 < [n00kie^away]> ich bin noch relativ neu in Linux *g*
17:27 < [n00kie^away]> Und ich will ne "oesterreichische" Distri verwenden :D
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> Und da hat man mir Rock Linux inne Augen gerieben
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> nun will ichs verwenden
17:28 < tcr> rocklinux ist eine internationale distribution
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> aber vonnem oesterreicher
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> da mach ich mir net solche sorgen wegen scheiß pptp protokoll :)
17:28 < tcr> soweit wie ich es sehen kann, ist eigentlich nur der maintainer österreicher
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> jaja
17:28 < [n00kie^away]> mein ich ja :D
17:29 < tcr> ja, und?
17:29 < [n00kie^away]> isses schwer zu installieren?
17:30 < [n00kie^away]> also fuern normal menschen
17:30 < tcr> wenn du relativ neu bist im bezug auf linux, denk ich dass du mit rocklinux nicht viel freude haben wirst. Es sei denn du bist bereit viel zu lernen, und willst dazu rocklinux benutzen
17:30 < [n00kie^away]> lernen will ich schon :)
17:30 < [n00kie^away]> aber rock is doch net so ne distri wo ich 90% selbst coden muß ?
17:31 < tcr> nein, nur eine distri wo 90% schiefgehen kann ;)))
17:31 < [n00kie^away]> das macht nix
17:32 < [n00kie^away]> wie issn die installation den so ?
17:32 < [n00kie^away]> anwender freundlich?
17:32 < tcr> alles ist relativ ;)
17:33 < tcr> aber nein, eigentlich nicht
17:33 < [n00kie^away]> hmm
17:33 < [n00kie^away]> Gibts da ein Anwender Handbuch?
17:33 < tcr> du musst eben recht viel selbst machen
17:33 < tcr> ja
17:34 < tcr> http://www.rocklinux.de/guide.html
17:34 < [n00kie^away]> In Deutsch?
17:34 < tcr> nö
17:35 < [n00kie^away]> http://www.rocklinux.de/people/mike/doc/guide/GUIDE.html
17:35 < [n00kie^away]> yeah
17:35 < [n00kie^away]> ich kann spanisch
17:35 < [n00kie^away]> :/
17:35 < tcr> englisch ist oben drüber
17:36 < tcr> ist nur keine html version da im moment
17:36 < [n00kie^away]> aso
17:37 < [n00kie^away]> is rock linux linux zum selber bauen ?
17:37 < tcr> jap
17:39 < [n00kie^away]> Welche Distribution ist dann fuer nen "Fortgeschrittenen Anfaenger" zu empfehlen?
17:40 < tcr> mhm. keine ahnung. was verwendest du denn derzeit?
17:40 < [n00kie^away]> Debian
17:40 < tcr> und was spricht dagegen?
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> Ich will was schwereres
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> Aber nicht zu schwer =)
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> bzw. was neues testen
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> Jeder hat Debian
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> ich will was haben was nicht jeder hat :)
17:41 < [n00kie^away]> Irgend so eine Distri die keiner kennt =)
17:42 < [n00kie^away]> Oder einfach gesagt - Eine die etwas schwerer als Debian is :)
17:43 < tcr> tjoa
17:43 < tcr> gentoo ist auch ne source distro wie rocklinux, aber mittlerweile auch im dicksten mainstream
17:44 < [n00kie^away]> Gentoo saugt ja die halbe Distri waehrend der installation
17:44 < [n00kie^away]> und da mach ich mir sorgen wegen dem pptp protokoll
17:44 < [n00kie^away]> das wird von nahezu keiner distri unterstuetzt o.O
17:45 < tcr> ??
17:45 < [n00kie^away]> pptp = oesterreichisches dsl protkoll
17:45 < [n00kie^away]> glaub ich O.O
17:45 < tcr> lol
17:45 < [n00kie^away]> jo
17:45 < tcr> pptp = Point to Point Tunneling Protocol
17:45 < [n00kie^away]> is
17:46 < [n00kie^away]> genau :)
17:46 < [n00kie^away]> wie is eigentlich lsf ?
17:46 < [n00kie^away]> lfs
17:46 < [n00kie^away]> hat mir auch einer in meine offenen wunden gerieben
17:46 < tcr> bestimmt mühsam
17:47 < tcr> obwohl
17:47 < tcr> das ist mittlerweile auch nur noch scripts ausführen
17:47 < tcr> und fertig
17:47 < owl> tcr: scripts? das ist docu lesen und per hand bauen... und verzweifeln, weil z.t. die docu kleine fehler zu enthalten scheint
17:48 < tcr> achwas, da gibts auch so komische scripts
17:48 < owl> du verkohlst mich? oder bin ich blind?
17:48 < tcr> kann da nur relata refero
17:48 < tcr> hab nie was anderes als rocklinux gehabt ;->>>>
17:48 < [n00kie^away]> warum sollte ich eigentlich am anfang englisch reden O.O
17:49 < tcr> weil das ein englischer channel ist
17:49 < [n00kie^away]> toll
17:49 < [n00kie^away]> und alles deutsche
17:49 < owl> weil dann andere leute (nicht deuschtsprechende) in den logs nachlesen koennen
17:49 < owl> nein, nicht alles
17:49 < owl> -s
17:51 < [n00kie^away]> hmm
17:51 < [n00kie^away]> Ich dachte da gibts auch so n installations manager wo man alles einrichten kann
17:52 < tcr> teils teils
17:53 < [n00kie^away]> ich will doch nur ne gute distri haben :(
17:53 < tcr> ftp://iso.rocklinux.de/Rock-1.6.x/Rock-1.6.0-pre3/rock-ia32-i686-base+opt-1.6.0pre3.iso
17:53 < tcr> du kannst's ja einfach mal versuchen
17:53 < tcr> das ist jetzt eine präkompilierte ISO
17:54 < [n00kie^away]> also
17:54 < [n00kie^away]> reinschieben
17:54 < [n00kie^away]> neu starten
17:54 < [n00kie^away]> installieren
17:54 < [n00kie^away]> fertig =) ?
17:54 < tcr> ja
17:55 < [n00kie^away]> ich werds demnaechst mal versuchen
17:58 < rolla_rock> re
17:59 < owl> hi rolla_rock
18:00 < tcr> rolla_rock rocls da house!
18:00 < [n00kie^away]> ist freebsd schwer?
18:00 * rolla_rock is still fighting with rock on alpha :(
18:00 < owl> rolla_rock: still fighting with the same problems you already had yesterday?
18:00 < tcr> hmm. rolla_rock :/
18:01 < tcr> [n00kie^away]: ich bekennder linux fanatiker. bsd ist nicht.
18:01 < owl> [n00kie^away]: bsd insgamt bedeutet afaik viel mehr per hand editieren als bei linux
18:01 < rolla_rock> yup
18:01 < [n00kie^away]> ahjo
18:01 < [n00kie^away]> also kein bsd =)
18:01 < rolla_rock> I can't find any of the people that can help me :(
18:01 < owl> [n00kie^away] == faul ?
18:02 < tcr> rolla_rock: :) i dont know about alpha, but what's your problem anyway? :)
18:02 < [n00kie^away]> Ja los, reib mir noch mehr Salz in meine offenen Wunden :-(
18:02 < tcr> rolla_rock: hmm, perhaps mike could help you ?!
18:02 < rolla_rock> nope
18:02 < owl> [n00kie^away]: haha. pech gehabt.
18:02 < rolla_rock> he does not know much about MILO and aboot
18:03 < tcr> rolla_rock: what's about holyolli ? isnt he the maintainer of the alpha port
18:04 < rolla_rock> yes he is the one I cannot find online
18:04 < tcr> just send him an email then :)
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18:19 < rolla_rock> tcr thanks for the idea
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19:15 < fake> == 01/12/03 18:57:50 =[1]=> Finished building package gcc3.
19:16 < fake> wee...
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19:28 < holyolli> moin
19:28 < tcr> holyolli: !!! rolla_rock was needing you :)
19:28 < holyolli> hi tcr
19:28 < owl> hi holyolli
19:28 < holyolli> hi owl
19:28 < tcr> i suggested him to write an email to you :) received one?
19:28 < holyolli> erm
19:29 * holyolli is just checking emails...
19:29 < holyolli> ;)
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19:31 < tsa> hi
19:31 < holyolli> huhu tsa
19:31 < tcr> hi tsa
19:32 < tsa> anyone familar with operating systems / IPC ?
19:33 * tsa trying to find out what spinlocks are and how/what for they are used.
19:34 < tcr> hmm
19:34 < tcr> depends..
19:34 < owl> hi tsa
19:35 < esden> puhh ... another dietlibc target patch bunch sent
19:36 < esden> now dietlibc target compiles till stage 2 !!! 
19:36 < esden> ;-)
19:37 < tcr> tsa: whats your problem?
19:40 < tsa> tcr: no problem, just trying to learn
19:40 < tsa> are spinlocks available in userspace or just in kernelspace?
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19:43 < esden> tsa: they are only avalable in the kernel sapace AFAIK
19:45 < esden> spinlocks have been introduced because of preemptyty .. as far as I know
19:45 < tsa> i see, ok -  so is it correct to understand spinlocks as a very basic means of locking that might be used to implement higher level locking mechnisms such as mutexes, rwlocks etc..?
19:46 < esden> hmm ... this is something that I do not know
19:46 < tsa> hehe..ok ;)
19:47 < tcr> tsa: a spin-lock is nothing else than a mutex
19:47 < esden> but I know that it is needed so that a program can be interupted (for example when a higher priority process has something to do) even if it is in kernel mode
19:47 < tcr> and rw-locks are an alternative to spin-lock but arent based upon them
19:48 < esden> that is how I understood what spinlocks are for ... but I would not give my head for it
19:50 < tcr> esden: spinlocks are actually just for interprocess communication. The critical code area could only be executed by the process that "have the spinlock", all other have to wait
19:52 < esden> yes but that is because spin-lock is a mutex ... but there were mutexes in the kernel space already ... or am I mixing something up ?
19:53 < esden> and spinlocks must have something special about them otherwise they would not be added to the kernel
19:53 < tcr> hmm. that was originally handled by clearing the interruptflags of the cpu, so no other interrupt than NMI (that indicated bad RAM) could interrupt the execution of the critical area
19:54 < tcr> but this technique has got some disadvanted, for instance clearing and restoring the flags is relatively ressource intensive
19:54 < tcr> and can not be used on SMP (dont ask me why though)
19:55 < tcr> that's why spinlocks do the job now
19:56 < esden> ahh ... ok
19:56 < tsa> tcr: hm....there seem to be two different implementations, spin_lock and spin_lock_irqsave
19:57 < tcr> hm. a slightly difference
19:57 < tcr> slight
19:58 < tcr> spin_lock_irqsave saves the interruptstatus before locking, and unlock_irqrestore resets it after unlocking... i guess
19:58 < tsa> whereas spin_lock / spin_unlock doesn't affect irq's at all?
19:59 < tcr> yeah, i think so
20:00 < tsa> so what might happen if spin_lock(&lock) was jsut executed and an irq takes place?
20:00 < tsa> dead-/live-lock?
20:02 < tcr> hm
20:02 < tcr> actually not
20:02 < blindcoder> rehi
20:03 < owl> re blindcoder
20:03 < tcr> to prevent a deadlock the spin_lock_irqsave and its unlock counter part has been implemented
20:03 < tcr> because..
20:04 < tsa> well....if the interrupt handler tries spin_lock(&lock), too, this would probably be a problem..
20:04 < tcr> spin-locks are supposed to be used even in interrupthandlers, and if in an interrupthandler a spin_lock was set, and still while executing the same interrupt occurs, it would wait until the set spin_lock is unset, which would never occur
20:05 < tsa> ack.
20:05 < tsa> typical dead-lock, then.
20:06 < tcr> spin_lock_irq() seems to to lock interrupts
20:07 < tcr> and to guarantee that after unlocking the same interrupthandler is there before locking there are spin_lock_irqsave and _unlock_irqrestore
20:07 < tsa> hm...is there any online documentation available about these kernel-funtions?
20:07 < tcr> yes. from anywhere I got my knowledge about them ;) but dont ask from where..
20:07 < tsa> hehe
20:08 < tsa> hm...did anyone ever try the O(1)-scheduler for linux?
20:09 < tcr> have been using 2.5 for long time
20:09 < tsa> i'm using it for 2 days now and it "seems" to be a little better than the vanilla kernel, but i can't prove that, of course
20:09 < tsa> hm...didn't try 2.5 so far
20:10 < tsa> is it worth a try?
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20:10 < tcr> well, i tried on my development box (== not that bad if it entirely screws up) only for a very short time 2.4
20:11 < tcr> and actually a hacked 2.4 with a backport of the o(1) scheduler
20:11 < tcr> so i actually cant tell any differences
20:11 < tsa> hm..ok
20:11 < tcr> but 2.5 got very cool features
20:12 < tcr> and ext3-dxdirs/htree is /so/ delicious
20:12 < tcr> i won't ever miss it
20:13 < tsa> hehe
20:15 < tsa> hm...semaphores seem to be implemented using spinlocks..
20:17 < tsa> btw...is there any reason why i can't "construct" my own semaphore with a counter variable protected by a mutex?
20:18 < tcr> don't want to bother me with that
20:18 * tcr is watching tv now ;)
20:22 * blindcoder now going to bed
20:22 < blindcoder> bye
20:23 < tcr> gn8
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21:42 < tsa_> grmpf.
21:42 < tsa_> lockup.
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22:25 < owl> gn8
22:25 < holyolli> n8 owl
22:33 < esden> argh .. I am so stupid 
22:33 < esden> I AM SO STUPID
22:34 < esden> there is a way to indicate the order of parse-config files !
22:37 < tcr> you are so stupid!
22:39 < esden> I should have read the parse-config file creation in Create-Tools before I wrote the e-mail ...
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23:33 < esden> yess yess yess !!! binutils are compiling in stage 2 !!!
23:33 < esden> weee !
23:36 -!- Minemonic [~kako@cm-net-poa-C8B024FE.brdterra.com.br] has joined #rocklinux
23:36 < esden> hi Minemonic 
23:37 < Minemonic> hi
23:38 < Minemonic> esden: What source distro is better: Gentoo, Rock or Lunar?
23:41 < esden> rock is not really a source distro
23:41 < esden> it is a distribution build kit
23:41 < esden> Many people use Gentoo ... I have tested it ... and was not overwhelmed with it
23:42 < esden> i have never tested lunar because it always needed a lot of ram
23:42 < esden> but I do not know how it is about it today
23:43 < esden> but I use the generic target of rocklinux and it I love it
23:44 < esden> it is very clean and easy to administrate 
23:44 < esden> I would not exchange it for lunar or Gentoo
23:45 < esden> they are much to overpatched
23:45 < Minemonic> So Rock is like LFS?
23:45 < esden> no
23:45 < esden> it has nothing to do with LFS
23:46 < Minemonic> What type of packages i have with rock?
23:46 < esden> it is a framework to create a distribution you like using a menu ... but you do not have to compile everything by hand ... and you get ready to boot and install , binary cd's when you are ready with a build
23:47 < esden> Minemonic: what do you mean with type ?
23:47 < Minemonic> All right, now i understand
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23:48 < Minemonic> is not necessary to compile a kernel?
23:49 * -> esden is currently building a ROCK target (distribution) that uses dietlibc instead of glibc ... that are things that you can not do with any "distribution"
23:49 < esden> you are encouraged to compile and install your own kernel when you are ready with the insatll of a rocklinux distribution ... but it is not forced
23:51 < Minemonic> It's possible to install rock from other distro like redhat?
23:52 < esden> yes ... but it is better you do not try to compile rock on it ... because it will need some hacking
23:52 < esden> when you have redhat it is better you get a binary cd of a rock flavour and istall it
23:52 < esden> you can later compile your own rock version on this
23:53 < esden> I only know that it is possible to compile rock on debian without much effort ... but about redhat and other distributions i have no information
23:54 < Minemonic> thanks esdn
23:55 < Minemonic> i start download the binary cd now!
23:55 < esden> hehe ;-)
23:55 < rolla_rock> re
23:55 < esden> re rolla_rock 
23:56 < esden> Minemonic: this will be usefull: http://iso.rocklinux.de/
23:58 < Minemonic> esden:  great!
--- Log closed Mon Jan 13 00:00:21 2003