--- Log opened Fri May 16 00:00:55 2003
--- Day changed Fri May 16 2003
00:20 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@www.digital-dictators.de] has joined #rocklinux
00:20 < holyolli> moin
00:20 < tsa> hi holyolli
00:20 < holyolli> huhu tsa
00:20 < Mike1> Cpt holyolli
00:20 < rxr> hi holyolli
00:21 < holyolli> hi mike, rxr
00:21 * Mike1 waiting for holyolli's confirmation for july 4th trip
00:22 < holyolli> mike: still searching for flights..those with i found were definitively too expensive
00:23 < Mike1> holyolli: okis.
00:39 < Mike1> n8 all
00:40 < holyolli> buenas noches
00:58 < ringo78> n8 Mike1
01:17 < rxr> n8 Mike1
01:17 < rxr> the bdb check is still running - sorry
01:18 < rxr> you 'll have a working svn server tomorrow morning -  including a mirror with hot-backups to choose ...
01:35 < rxr> damn svn check still running :-(
01:44 * george is back (gone 02:01:51)
01:47 < george> damned tired... gn8 ev'rybody
01:48 < tsa> cu george
01:48 -!- george [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has quit ("c y'all")
01:50 < holyolli> rxr: btw. is it possible that you include ntfs-readonly in the install kernel of drock?
01:53 -!- jose [~jose@196.40.45.146] has joined #rocklinux
01:53 * jose say hi2all !
01:53 < holyolli> hi jose
01:55 < jose> holyolli: nice to meet you!
01:56 < rxr> holyolli: yes it was on my todo since you last mentioned this - I'll do so now
02:01 < rxr> holyolli: dnl NTFS for installation on esoteric notebooks where the user
02:01 < rxr> dnl might have the ISOs on an NTFS partition due to unsupported
02:01 < rxr> dnl floppy, CD, ... drives
02:01 < rxr> CONFIG_NTFS_FS=y
02:01 < holyolli> rxr: hmmm. strange
02:01 < holyolli> rxr: /me tried it yesterday
02:01 < rxr> I just added this ;-)
02:01 < holyolli> rxr: *g* ah
02:02 < holyolli> rxr: can you send me a bootdiskimage with this? because my inet is quite slow here
02:03 < rxr> oeh - bootdisk image - well never tested those in the last year - and cliff restructured them to be multi-floppy able with the help of freedos ....
02:03 < rxr> you can boot from a CD, can't you ?
02:04 < holyolli> rxr: hm. any other possibility instead of getting an cd image again...?
02:04 < holyolli> rxr: jepp
02:04 < holyolli> rxr: but only booting...the cdrom is firewire... =)
02:04 < rxr> hm - you could use the minmal target I'll release with the next -beta3 ...
02:04 < rxr> it should be not that big ...
02:04 < holyolli> rxr: ack.
02:04 < holyolli> rxr: i'll send you anyways an install report...and also some suggestions ;-)
02:05 < rxr> what is the upper size limit you would like ?
02:05 < holyolli> rxr: if its possible not more than 100megs
02:05 < holyolli> rxr: but i'll try to create a fat partition this evening - this might work also
02:05 < rxr> well that should be manageable (this is the first minmal try ...)
02:06 < holyolli> jo
02:31 < rxr> so subversion is up and running again ...
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02:49 -!- lowks [~lowks@219.93.24.31] has joined #rocklinux
02:50 -!- jose is now known as josewolf
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02:56 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@www.digital-dictators.de] has quit ("*fluff*")
03:04 -!- josewolf is now known as jose
03:27 < rxr> Committed revision 260.
03:30 -!- tsa [~tsa@pD9E123F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("*plopp*")
03:38 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p50802BB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:47 < rxr> Committed revision 262.
03:52 < mnemoc> nullmailer-queue: Could not write envelope sender. <--- any idea?
03:54 < mnemoc> no free space on device :(
03:58 < jose> how can i send only stderr down a pipe ?
03:58 < mnemoc> 2>
04:00 < jose> i'll receive stdout too!
04:01 < mnemoc> > /dev/null 2> ?
04:08 < jose> mnemoc: tanx,i'm really asking to know! :->
04:10 < mnemoc> did it work?
04:10 < jose> sorry
04:10 < jose> s/i'm/i'm not/
04:11 < mnemoc> :|
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08:03 < blindcoder> moin
08:26 < _NULL_> moin *yaaaaawn*
08:26 < blindcoder> moin nully
08:26 < _NULL_> hi blindy
08:54 < daja77> moin
08:56 < _NULL_> moin daja77
08:57 < daja77> moin _NULL_
08:58 < daja77> O_o what message george got, he didn't restart download, strange...
08:58 < _NULL_> daja77: ???
09:00 < daja77> well I had to reboot my routing box, which interrupted george's download, then I told him to recnnect, he didn't but wrote some strange comment about gettinmg the message
09:01 < daja77> anyway, not my problem
09:02 < _NULL_> hm
09:05 < daja77> hmm weather bot says it is only 9° here, wtf
09:06 < _NULL_> *lol* it's a statical value, eh?
09:06 < daja77> hmmn no yesterday it said 13°
09:06 < _NULL_> *g*
09:07 < daja77> but today sun is shining...
09:07 < _NULL_> here too... and it's extremely cold outside
09:08 < daja77> *gna* wtf is this big yellow thing disturbing my view on monitor then
09:08 < daja77> if it is not even warm here
09:09 < daja77> _NULL_: you are at work?
09:09 < _NULL_> daja77: ack
09:10 < _NULL_> here it has about 6 ° C - wetter.de says...
09:10 < daja77> lemme check
09:10 < _NULL_> hm. if you want to have the values from "deutschen wetterdienst" i would have to leave the house... mnaybe the values are already written down to the boards..
09:10 < daja77> the bot says 7° :)
09:11 < _NULL_> daja77: *g*
09:11 < daja77> _NULL_: ahem don't got your message, please try again
09:12 < _NULL_> daja77: "wenn du die werte vom deutschen wetterdienst moechtest, muesste ich das haus verlassen. vielleicht sind die werte schon am board angebracht"
09:13 < daja77> ah k. they come and write them at some board on the house?
09:13 < _NULL_> daja77: nope. but the DWD is our neighbour. and before the DWD-house there is a board...
09:14 * daja77 thinks of sending _NULL_ out in the cold, just to feel sure, hehehe
09:14 < _NULL_> daja77: hahahahaha
09:14 < _NULL_> evil boy
09:14 < daja77> ack
09:14 < _NULL_> or should i say: evil old man?
09:14 < daja77> evil girl
09:14 < blindcoder> _NULL_: *sweetes voice ever* would you please be so kind as to tell me the official value as stated on the DWD's board?
09:15 < daja77> lol
09:15 < _NULL_> blindcoder: *g* nope
09:15 < blindcoder> _NULL_: *kick*
09:15 < daja77> _NULL_ is young and lazy...
09:16 < _NULL_> blindcoder: *rekick*
09:16 < _NULL_> daja77: blll :p
09:17 < daja77> hmmm dwd were the guys who failed to say the flood is coming, last year, iirc
09:19 < daja77> anyway we'll never know today's exact values ... :)))
09:26 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p50802730.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
09:27 < daja77> moin netrunner
09:27 < _NULL_> hi netrunner
09:28 < netrunner> moin daja77, _NULL_
09:29 * netrunner fighting against headache from party yesterday :)
09:29 < daja77> hehe I guess the headache wins...
09:30 < daja77> cu later
09:30 < _NULL_> netrunner: lazy student. don't go to extreme parties ;p
09:31 < daja77> _NULL_: heh that's life yu can't forbid it
09:31 < _NULL_> daja77: i can :)
09:31 < daja77> hehe try it :p
09:32 < _NULL_> daja77: ok. when i'm "bundeskanzlerin" :p
09:32 < daja77> lol
09:33 * _NULL_ wounders about stupid window-dns-dhcp-whatever-server... *grml*
09:34 < daja77> why wondering O_o
09:34 * daja77 now really off
09:34 < netrunner> _NULL_: that was a uni-party. But made me miss the lecture this morning. And I surely know at least one other person that isn't htere too :)
09:35 < _NULL_> because my machine (ancoras.domain.name.here) has the name of another machine... (nameofancompanymember.domain.name.here)
09:35 < _NULL_> netrunner: even more forbidden ;p
09:36 < rxr> re
09:36 < rxr> h _NULL_ netrunner
09:36 < _NULL_> hi rxr
09:38 < _NULL_> *lol* fighting with win XP-using guys is so fun! muahahaha
09:39 < blindcoder> moin netrunner
09:39 < blindcoder> moin rxr
09:39 < blindcoder> netrunner: lemme take a _wild_ guess.... esden?
09:39 < netrunner> moin blindcoder
09:39 < netrunner> blindcoder: true :)
09:39 < blindcoder> muahahaha :)
09:40 < netrunner> blindcoder: you're also from munich?
09:41 < blindcoder> netrunner: I'm from Ingolstadt, working in Munich
09:42 < _NULL_> netrunner: /me not from munich btw. just working there..
09:43 < netrunner> _NULL_: so you both could have come to the party.
09:43 < blindcoder> netrunner: hrm.... If I had known that there was one...
09:43 < blindcoder> but I had gym yesterday...
09:44 < _NULL_> netrunner: nope. a) i'm disliking parties, b) i'm living in neuburg. and there are no trains to neuburg at midnight or so
09:45 < netrunner> yeah well ... next time I'll announce it really loud :)
09:46 < blindcoder> okay *plugs ears*
09:46 < _NULL_> blindcoder: gym? again???
09:46 < blindcoder> When did that party start?
09:46 * _NULL_ fears blindcoder and hides under the table
09:46 < blindcoder> _NULL_: 3 times a week
09:46 < _NULL_> blindcoder: you're insane
09:47 < blindcoder> _NULL_: no, I want to loose fat
09:47 < netrunner> blindcoder: join the bladenight ... more fun less costs :)
09:48 < _NULL_> blindcoder: loose fat, but become "muscle man" - when you're looking like arnold schwarzenegger in the future, i won't know you anymore ;p
09:48 < _NULL_> netrunner: ack.
09:49 < blindcoder> netrunner: I haven't been to Ingolstaedter bladenight because the people who wanted to come with me all aclled in because they lost interest >_<
09:49 < blindcoder> _NULL_: That's not what I want to look like. But I also don't want to end up like Rolf
09:49 < netrunner> blindcoder: there's also one in munich, every monday
09:50 < _NULL_> blindcoder: ...
09:50 < blindcoder> netrunner: hmm... sounds interesting
09:50 < blindcoder> _NULL_: yes, indeed
09:51 < _NULL_> blindcoder: hrmpf
09:54 < rxr> Committed revision 267.
10:21 -!- Be-El [~blinke@elwood.Genetik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE] has joined #rocklinux
10:21 < Be-El> i ppl
10:21 < Be-El> +h
10:21 < _NULL_> hi Be-El
10:26 < daja77> hehe great temperature rising to 12°
10:26 * daja77 back to off
11:10 -!- pyro [~mike@mail.costarica.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:10 < pyro> moin
11:11 < pyro> ping esden
11:11 < Be-El> hi mike
11:11 < pyro> Wie geht's Burkhard
11:11 < pyro> ?
11:11 < _NULL_> hi Miguel
11:12 < pyro> hallo Sandra
11:12 < blindcoder> moin Mike1
11:12 < blindcoder> moin Be-El
11:12 < Be-El> pyro: the usual it's-friday-and-i-don't-want-to-work-anymore-mood
11:12 < pyro> hi blindy
11:13 < pyro> Be-El hehe i just came over from partying
11:13 < pyro> i was out some friends, and come over to one of my mates office
11:13 < pyro> while we are waiting for a friend to pick us up, we are too drunk for driving...
11:14 < blindcoder> pyro: you know, alcohol is good/bad for your hacking skills
11:14 < pyro> blindcoder ich wiess mein freund
11:15 < pyro> blindcoder i don't drink too much very oftenly,  but today i just had to
11:15 < _NULL_> pyro: again... :p
11:16 < Be-El> http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB105294526966494700,00.html?mod=todays_us_personaljnl_hs
11:16 < pyro> _NULL_ honestly i don't drink anymore, but i felt like it today
11:17 < _NULL_> pyro: why are you feeling so?
11:17 < pyro> _NULL_ ich been depresed
11:18 < _NULL_> pyro: :-/
11:21 < pyro> i will be leaving u now my friends, for i need to sleep
11:21 < pyro> i shall be back in a few hours
11:21 < _NULL_> bye pyro
11:21 < Be-El> cu pyro
11:21 < pyro> gutte nacht alle
11:21 -!- pyro [~mike@mail.costarica.net] has quit ("BitchX: more nutritious than a six-pack.")
11:26 < _NULL_> *hmpf* this cookies taste like 10 years old... *crunch*
11:35 < Be-El> cat `find -name "food"` > $USER
11:36 -!- Be-El is now known as BL|mampf
11:37 < _NULL_> BL|mampf: guten hunger
11:48 < rxr> re
11:56 -!- zer0_o [~zer0_o@217.14.64.20] has joined #rocklinux
11:56 < _NULL_> hi zer0_o
12:05 < zer0_o> hi all
12:05 < zer0_o> hi _NULL_
12:09 < kasc> moin
12:12 < daja77> re
12:16 < daja77> *lol* Mike the party guy ;)
12:18 < rxr> hi daja77
12:18 < daja77> hi rxr how are you?
12:19 < rxr> daja77: oh - quite well. And you ?
12:20 < daja77> it is ok, if you don't count the noise that surrounds me :(
12:23 < daja77> which rev have you reached by now? :)
12:34 < rxr> the svn reposiory will go out-of-order for maintenace reasons for aproximately one hour
12:34 < rxr> (recompiling the bdb's and subversion - and configuring hot-backup functionallity which will be also used for an off-site svn-mirror at gsmp.tfh-berlin.de)
12:36 < daja77> hmm I am playing with rev 224 anyway
12:38 -!- DNA [~DNA@195.69.162.122] has joined #rocklinux
12:39 -!- BL|mampf is now known as Be-El
12:39 < Be-El> re
12:39 < DNA> hi
12:39 < DNA> :)
12:39 < _NULL_> hi DNA
12:39 < daja77> hi DNA
12:39 < daja77> re Be-El
12:39 < DNA> how are you doing guys?
12:39 < daja77> fine
12:40 < rxr> hi DNA
12:40 < rxr> daja77: I think about creating a second brach - so rock-trunk are the immidately commits and rock-stable will get the merges from rock-trunk when they prove to work.
12:40 < rxr> this way people do not suffer the "rock-trunk" does not compile due to gccx work for a whole day ...
12:41 < daja77> sounds resonable
12:41 < _NULL_> rock-trunk???
12:41 < daja77> and btw this would be a benefit using svn over cvs
12:42 < daja77> _NULL_: yeah checkout the subversion tree ;)
12:42 < _NULL_> daja77: nope. i won't
12:42 < daja77> :p
12:44 -!- Parabull [~Parabull@212.152.174.162] has joined #rocklinux
12:46 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M272P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:46 < rxr> _NULL_: then don't ask silly Qs ...
12:46 < daja77> lol
12:46 < _NULL_> rxr: sure i will.
12:47 < rxr> so I'm away for an hour or so - hopefully all the bdb subversion stuff is compiled on the 450Mhz box when I'm back ...
12:47 < daja77> cu later Rene
12:47 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M315P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
12:48 < _NULL_> bye rxr
12:48 < daja77> hi n00kie
12:49 < rxr> hm - maybe I should install a tiny http server (like the one from fefe) for such maintenance issues - so I can present some "This server is down for maintenance - please try again later ..." site ... ;-)
12:49 < rxr> cu
12:50 < daja77> hehe, btw is it possible to use subversion with cdb
12:51 -!- DNA [~DNA@195.69.162.122] has left #rocklinux ("Client exiting")
13:10 * Be-El looks at his watch
13:10 < Be-El> *strike*
13:10 < Be-El> so....feierabend :-)
13:11 < daja77> hehe freitag nach eins macht jeder seins, lol
13:11 < blindcoder> grr
13:11 < blindcoder> ich hab noch 4 Stunden >_<
13:12 < _NULL_> blindcoder: haha. /me hat nur noch 1 3/4 :ppp
13:13 < Be-El> well, actually it's not feierabend....it's more like moving home and doing bad things to a box i have the root password for;-)
13:13 < blindcoder> Be-El: hehe
13:14 < blindcoder> well, it's not really work either
13:14 < blindcoder> it's waiting-for-calls-while-listening-to-webradio-and-coding-what-I-want-to
13:14 < Be-El> blindcoder: it's better to use your own box if you're about to drop databases....on a production system this may be not a good idea ;-)
13:15 -!- Be-El [~blinke@elwood.Genetik.Uni-Bielefeld.DE] has quit ("Client Exiting")
13:16 * blindcoder whistles innocently :D
13:44 < netrunner> blindcoder: you seem to have a nice job
13:44 < blindcoder> netrunner: well, only if not too many customers are calling
13:44 < daja77> yeah I'd like to call him, and ask stupid questions
13:45 < blindcoder> daja77: you're not an employee of Siemens ICN :P
13:45 < netrunner> daja77: got his nr? lets call :)
13:45 < daja77> hehe no, but I can ask stupid things :P
13:46 < daja77> netrunner: unfortunately not :O
13:46 < blindcoder> 0900 30 30 30 (1,86 EUR/min) :P
13:46 < netrunner> blindcoder: 0900 96 96 96 (lots of EUR/min) ;)
13:46 * blindcoder firing up licq from his homemachine :)
13:47 < blindcoder> transconnect is something useful, indeed :)
13:47 < netrunner> blindcoder: you don't tell me you're not restricted to proxyed http there!
13:47 < daja77> hmm telephone sex with blindcoder...
13:47 < blindcoder> netrunner: well... I am... at least that's what they think...
13:48 < blindcoder> netrunner: let's put it this way: I _am_ behind a HTTP-Proxy. But there's alway transcannect and a ssh-daemon waiting on port 443 at my home-machine
13:49 < netrunner> blindcoder: nice, and you did not get angry messages from their noc?
13:51 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:51 < blindcoder> netrunner: not in the last... 9 or 10 months
13:52 < _NULL_> noc?
13:52 < blindcoder> hey, come on. I'm an admin here. Worst case I have to ssh my way through to the proxy and ssh to the outside from there
13:52 < blindcoder> I have direct access to the DMZ from here.
13:54 < netrunner> blindcoder: hmm ... I should try if my servers are not restricted ... good idea :)
13:54 < blindcoder> netrunner: worst case I can always give you an account on my home-machine to ssh into :)
13:54 < blindcoder> AFAIK esden is successfully using transconnect from StuSta
13:54 < netrunner> blindcoder: it's not a target problem I have, but the coming out.
13:57 < blindcoder> hmm... TUM is open AFAIK and in StuSta you can use transconnect
13:57 < blindcoder> esden is doing so, so why shouldn't you be able to?
13:58 < netrunner> blindcoder: I am talking about my workplace, where the setup should be similar to yours at work (BSH)
13:59 < blindcoder> hrm, okay. You have U*IX machine?
13:59 < netrunner> blindcoder: nope. so transconnect does not work (maybe with cygwin?)
14:01 < blindcoder> hmm... never tried with that, but tranconnects doesn't work with 'pure' win32
14:08 * daja77 now compiling 2.4.21-rc2-rthal5g ;)
14:12 < rxr> re
14:13 < daja77> re rxr
14:14 * daja77 nervously waits
14:14 < rxr> == 05/16/03 14:13:22 =[9]=> Finished building package apache.
14:14 * daja77 creating iso from drock rev 224
14:15 < daja77> [14:13:54] Creating drock-2.0.0beta3-224_cd1.iso ...
14:15 < daja77>   [14:15:00] Creating drock-2.0.0beta3-224_cd2.iso ...
14:15 < daja77>   [14:15:32] Done. Have fun!
14:15 < daja77> :)
14:16 < daja77> .oO compile error, damn
14:21 -!- Parabull [~Parabull@212.152.174.162] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
14:30 -!- Lorini [Lorini@p3EE219D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:30 < daja77> hi Lorini
14:30 < blindcoder> hi Lori
14:30 < Lorini> hi everybody
14:31 * daja77 nobody :))
14:32 < rolla> re
14:32 < daja77> hey rolla wb
14:33 < rolla> thanks
14:35 -!- rygar [~rygar@194.221.94.10] has joined #rocklinux
14:35 < rygar> hi
14:35 < daja77> hi rygar
14:35 < rygar> hi daja77
14:37 < rolla> re rygar
14:37 < rolla> daja77: are you doing any builds right now?
14:37 < daja77> no
14:37 < rolla> :(
14:37 < rolla> why not
14:37 * daja77 patching kernel to get realtime rock released
14:38 < rolla> rt rock?
14:38 < rolla> was ist das?
14:38 < daja77> rock linux with rtai extensions, http://www.rtai.org
14:44 -!- showGUN [~showgun@3e44a401.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #rocklinux
14:44 < showGUN> hi all
14:44 < _NULL_> hi showGUN
14:45 < showGUN> can anyone tell me why is it good to build with tmpfs?
14:45 < daja77> hi showGUN
14:46 < _NULL_> tmpfs?
14:46 < showGUN> and ccache?
14:46 < showGUN> ja
14:46 < daja77> showGUN: you don't need ccache to build rock
14:46 < showGUN> okay. but what is with tmpfs
14:47 < daja77> O_o dunno
14:47 < esden> hi all
14:47 < daja77> hey esden
14:47 < showGUN> hi
14:47 < esden> I hate "kater"
14:49 -!- Be-El [be-el@pD952519D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:49 < Be-El> re
14:49 < daja77> re Be-El
14:50 < rolla> re
14:57 < showGUN> byez
14:57 -!- showGUN [~showgun@3e44a401.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit ("BitchX: to the rescue!")
14:57 < esden> hehe I got a mail from joey if we want a booth on linuxtag :-
14:57 < esden> )
14:58 < daja77> and do we want?
14:58 < _NULL_> hi esden
14:58 < rxr> re
14:58 < rxr> hi esden
14:58 < blindcoder> moin esden
14:58 < esden> I will answer him later that we want one ... but first I have to talk to rxr ... and cliff
14:58 < rxr> daja77: sure we want !
14:58 < esden> hi rxr
14:58 < daja77> rxr: good!
14:59 < esden> I have no idea how big booth we need
14:59 < blindcoder> hrm... why didn't I start using SDL sooner?
14:59 < esden> I think I will ask him to give us the biggest booth he can give us
14:59 < rxr> esden: as big as last year - or bigger ;-)!
14:59 < rxr> _not_ smaller ;-)
15:00 < esden> rxr: ack
15:00 < esden> rxr: and we cheeted last year
15:00 < rxr> damn I need to shutdown my private server I guess
15:00 < daja77> blindcoder: A friend of mine once wanted to write a SDL sample application, and ported Moorhuhn to Linux...
15:00 < daja77> rxr: why?
15:00 < rxr> the damn old dRock-1.4.x with the glibc-2.1 makes some problems  :-/
15:01 < blindcoder> daja77: something like that. I could create a rudimentary sokoban clone with bad graphics in about 2 hours if I write clean code
15:01 < daja77> rxr: so you need the downtime for an upgrade *evil grin*
15:02 < rxr> yes - subversion sontantly links to the damn libdb included in that old glibc ...
15:02 < daja77> blindcoder: the bad things is he used the original graphics, so he couldn't release..
15:02 < rxr> hm - I try to remove the old libdb - if this fails I reinstall the system with s.th. actual ...
15:03 < daja77> but it was a nice demo on the linuxtag games booth anyway
15:03 < blindcoder> daja77: he could have released the code together with some ugly MS-Paint-Graphics :)
15:04 < rxr> we could also film M$ Office XP and present an amateur video about our than named ROCK Office *grin*
15:05 < daja77> hmm he only ported it, so that his gf had no more reason to use windows *gg*
15:05 < blindcoder> but it really _is_ simple. 123 lines for walking around on a map that is loaded from a gzipped file and drawn from two .pngs
15:06 < blindcoder> daja77: *lol* okay, THAT's a reason :D
15:06 < blindcoder> and those 123 are inccluding some error-catching and already split into functions...
15:06 < _NULL_> <-- going home. bye
15:07 < daja77> bye _NULL_
15:07 < blindcoder> bye _NULL_
15:07 < _NULL_> bye daja77, blindcoder
15:07 * _NULL_ laughs about blindcoder who will need to stay at work, any longer *vbeg*
15:07 < Be-El> cu null
15:07 * daja77 needs to stay as well...
15:08 < esden> cu l8er
15:08 * Be-El glues _NULL_ to her office chair
15:08 < daja77> cu later esden
15:08 -!- cOdEz [~codez@p50906645.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:11 < daja77> ok creating new patch *sigh*
15:13 < zer0_o> =)
15:15 -!- Be-El is now known as BL|work
15:19 < rxr> next PR mail out ...
15:20 < daja77> PR for what?
15:21 < rxr> oh my :-( rebuildig perl5 due to libdb2 missing ... :-( damn old system
15:23 * daja77 whispers the word update into rxr's ears
15:25 < rxr> daja77: yeah I do update - via Build-Pkg $next-broken-package ...
15:25 < daja77> omg
15:25 < rxr> there is to much config on this box - I do not want to reinstall the whole
15:25 < rxr> a full 4 disk RAID stuff and so on ...
15:25 < daja77> d'oh
15:26 < daja77> see you next week *ggg*
15:28 < rxr> nope it's not that much
15:29 < rxr> hm -
15:29 < rxr> ok I'll update
15:29 -!- rygar [~rygar@194.221.94.10] has quit ("Client Exiting")
15:30 < daja77> damn the ported patch breaks the kernel build, d'oh
15:30 < rxr> but since the traffic is routed over that box, we'll se us in some hours ...
15:30 -!- rxr [~rxr@port-212-202-172-137.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has quit ("leaving")
15:38 -!- Parabull [~Parabull@212.152.174.162] has joined #rocklinux
15:53 < daja77> damn that rxr is away
15:58 < rolla> == 08:18:17 =[5]=> Building kde31/kdelibs31 [3.1.1a 2.0.0-beta3].
15:58 < rolla> grr still stuck in KDE hell
15:59 < daja77> :)
16:02 < n00kie> hmm
16:02 < n00kie> can I make with 2 RAID0s one Raid1?
16:02 < rolla> \?
16:02 < n00kie> I mean: HDA, HDB: Raid 0, HDC, HDD: Raid0_2
16:02 < n00kie> hdc and hdd
16:02 < n00kie> should work as raid0 for raid1 :)
16:07 < rolla> so you just want 2 mirrors?
16:11 < BL|work> rolla: --enable-final ? ;-)
16:13 < daja77> anyone tried to compile 2.4.21-rc2 with io_apic feature?
16:20 < rolla> BL|work: I would rather not build it at all
16:21 < daja77> rolla: ?
16:23 < rolla> KDe
16:23 < rolla> should not be in rock at all
16:23 < rolla> worthless it is
16:23 < daja77> rolla: deactivate it in your build if you don't like it
16:24 < rolla> I would but the brain dead way to pick packages sucks worse than KDE
16:24 < BL|work> rolla: i would prefer to remove the gnome crap
16:24 < rolla> BL|work: you call somthing that builds crap?
16:24 < rolla> KDe is worthless takes days to build that C++ crap
16:24 < daja77> what's goin on, wishlist time
16:24 < BL|work> rolla: kde builds fine for me....except kdemultimedia
16:25 < rolla> yeah it builds in 2 weeks time
16:25 < BL|work> rolla: --enable-final and kde will build within a day...
16:26 < BL|work> at least it did so on my amd 1400
16:26 < daja77> ahem rolla why you build it, if you don't like it
16:26 * daja77 needs half a day for kde
16:26 < BL|work> rolla: btw... using kde* in the package selection will disable _all_ kde packages
16:26 < rolla> BL|work: gnome2 builds in less than half a day
16:26 < BL|work> rolla: and gnome2 is a pain in the arse if you need just one single package
16:26 < rolla> BL|work: you say that now but there is no help on that peice of crap in the selection
16:27 < rolla> BL|work: ?
16:27 < BL|work> rolla: and have a look at the source code of gnome....
16:27 < BL|work> rolla: the only application that needs gnome is gnomemeeting for me
16:27 < rolla> gnome is fine for me
16:27 < BL|work> even xchat can work without it (xchat 1.x, of course)
16:27 < rolla> KDE hsa been crap ever since I first used it
16:28 < BL|work> rolla: try to find good developer documentation for gnome....
16:28 < BL|work> rolla: try to patch gnome packages....
16:29 < BL|work> rolla: and start to wonder whether any gnome developer has even seen a book about software-engineering or programming
16:29 < rolla> still it is better than KDE
16:30 < rolla> BL|work: you will never sway me to like KDe I will go console only before KDE
16:30 < BL|work> gnome may be faster than kde and consume less memory....but as soon as you start digging under the surface...
16:30 < BL|work> rolla: it's linux....you got the freedom to choose ;-)
16:30 < rolla> BL|work: and the packages selection thing does not work at all
16:30 < rolla> BL|work: very true
16:30 < rolla> so how about we remove both of them from rock and let people compile it after install ;)
16:31 < BL|work> the package selection does its job with regular expressions...it should work with "O kde*"
16:31 < daja77> rolla: hehe
16:32 < rolla> well I do that and surprise suprise nothing happens
16:32 < rolla> what a peice of crap
16:32 < BL|work> rolla: look at your package list...works for me
16:33 < rolla> I did
16:34 < rolla> and who pick a O for and option just so you can confuse it with a 0
16:34 < rolla> what crap
16:34 < rolla> grrr
16:35 < rolla> btw I was using the right one but that is just another example of poor code that the package selection thing is
16:36 * rolla needs a beer
16:36 < BL|work> rolla: feel free to improve it
16:36 < rolla> :)
16:36 < rolla> wishes he was better at coding :)
16:37 < BL|work> ...and back to the installation beast....
16:38 < rolla> BL|work: ?
16:39 < BL|work> rolla: private stuff ;-)
16:39 < daja77> rolla: enjoy your beer :)
16:39 < rolla> BL|work: oh I thought you were working on rock installation scripts :)
16:39 < rolla> daja77: I cannot have beer right now
16:39 < rolla> I just needs one
16:39 < daja77> hehe ok
16:41 * daja77 doesn't whether to announce his patch or not
16:41 < daja77> know
16:43 < BL|work> daja77: announce it with a big, fat warning ;-)
16:43 < daja77> yeah and a knowm issue comment
16:44 < rolla> daja77: what is the patch for?
16:44 < daja77> it breaks the kernel build when io_apic is set to y
16:45 < daja77> rolla: realtime extension for linux kernel, original patches are available only up to 2.4.20, so I tried porting it to 2.4.21-rc2
16:45 < rolla> :)
16:49 -!- Lorini [Lorini@p3EE219D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ()
16:49 < rolla> I love this no error message from selection crap
16:50 < rolla> daja77: I should be able to put O gnome14* right?
16:50 < daja77> think so
16:51 < blindcoder> O just sets the package to "don't install by default"
16:51 < blindcoder> try "-" instead of "O"
16:51 < rolla> nope
16:52 < rolla> as usaual this peice of crap gives no errors ntohgin
16:52 < blindcoder> hrm
16:52 < rolla> this could make me stop trying to use rock
16:52 < rolla> really makes me mad
16:52 < daja77> :(
16:52 < daja77> rolla: ic calm down
16:53 < blindcoder> try without the *
16:53 < rolla> I did
16:53 < rolla> same thing
16:53 < rolla> no error just nothing happens
16:53 < blindcoder> I just tried "- gnome14" and the packages went down by 30
16:53 < blindcoder>   x x     ,----< Package selection rules >----.                           x x
16:53 < blindcoder>   x x     | 001:  - gnome14                                               x x
16:54 < rolla> well it does not work for me
16:55 < rolla> can I just edit the package file by hand
16:55 < blindcoder> dunno....
16:55 < blindcoder> but it will only last until the next ./scripts/Config
16:55 -!- BL|work [be-el@pD952519D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
16:55 < blindcoder> hmm
16:55 < rolla> okay
16:55 < blindcoder> "- gnom*" just reduced the list by >100 packages
16:55 < rolla> yeah this thing is acting weird
16:55 < blindcoder>   ^ space is important (dunno... maybe...
16:56 < blindcoder> ah well...
16:56 < blindcoder> it's 17:00 now and I can final/ly go home!
16:56 < blindcoder> WEEKEND! HERE I COME!
16:56 < blindcoder> baba
16:56 < daja77> blindcoder: have fun, cu
16:57 < rolla> why is it so hard for this thing to jsut give me an error meassage
16:58 < rolla>    ,----< Package selection rules >----.                                 x x
16:58 < rolla>   x x            | 001:  O kde*                                                        x x
16:58 < daja77> hmm maybe because of the pattern matching produced no error
16:58 < rolla>   x x            | 002:  <new line>                                                    x x
16:58 -!- Be-El [be-el@pD952519D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
16:58 < rolla>   x x            `-----------------------------------'                                 x x
16:58 < rolla> ?
16:58 < Be-El> re
16:58 < daja77> wb Be-El
16:58 < rolla> so it is just the rock scripts that suck then
16:59 < daja77> rolla: this was only a wild guess, but yeah maybe
16:59 < rolla> yeah well it is not a wild guess to say that this config script sucks
16:59 < daja77> rolla: but anyway I know things that suck more, believe me in this
16:59 < rolla> well maybe
17:00 < rolla> but basic things like this should not be broken in this way
17:00 < daja77> rolla: e.g. coding in a lab which produces more noise than 20 pcs
17:00 < daja77> rolla: ack
17:00 < rolla> :)
17:00 < rolla> that is the sound of fun
17:00 < daja77> no
17:01 < daja77> the noise is not from pcs but from a control unit
17:01 < rolla> well it is still better than dealing with broken crap
17:01 < zer0_o> Bye all =)
17:02 < zer0_o> =)
17:02 -!- zer0_o [~zer0_o@217.14.64.20] has quit ("Client Exiting")
17:02 < daja77> I _have_ to deal with crap as a bonus, you know
17:02 < rolla> :)
17:02 < daja77> anyway got an invitation for bbq in an hour, so I can keep up hope
17:03 < rolla> cool
17:03 < daja77> yeah it is
17:04 < rolla> cool I type crap as a selection rule and no error at all
17:04 < rolla> Cliff if you are reading this code sucks
17:05 < daja77> he isn't here, but write a bug report to the list please, so that he'll know
17:05 < rolla> what is the report
17:06 < rolla> the script gives nothing and I bet it works for him
17:06 < daja77> just write what you have tried, and that it doesn't produce error messages and stuff
17:07 < rolla> great now my first line I had there is gone
17:07 < rolla> esden: you here?
17:08 < daja77> esden: is away afaik
17:08 < daja77> damn -:
17:09 < rolla> daja77: yeah tell me about it
17:11 < daja77> about what?
17:11 < rolla> nevermind
17:12 * daja77 gives a beer to rolla
17:12 < rolla> :)
17:13 < daja77> ok I sent the patch out, now waiting for the bashing
17:14 < esden> re hi all
17:14 < daja77> hi esden
17:15 < esden> hi daja77 
17:19 < rolla> re
17:19 < daja77> rolla: haven't noticed you bein away
17:20 < Mike1> re all
17:20 < daja77> hi Mike1
17:21 < esden> urgh ... the mailinglist is full >_<
17:21 < daja77> oh no
17:22 < Mike1> hi esden
17:22 < esden> hi Mike1 
17:26 < tfing> hmmm, why is pangoft not found ???
17:26 < tfing> missing fontconfig ?
17:28 < daja77> hi tfing
17:28 < tfing> hi daja77
17:31 < rolla> I was
17:31 < rolla> tfing: fontconfig is a pain in the butt
17:31 < daja77> rolla: got your beer?
17:31 < tfing> why does gimp refuse to build ?!
17:31 < rolla> nein
17:32 < rolla> but sson lunch
17:32 < daja77> rolla: good luck, I am leaving soo
17:32 < daja77> n
17:33 < rolla> daja77: off to the bbq?
17:33 < daja77> rolla: yeah
17:33 < rolla> cat: config.out: No such file or directory
17:33 < rolla> grep: config.data: No such file or directory
17:33 < rolla> hmm
17:34 < daja77> ok cu later guys
17:34 < rolla> bye
17:36 < tfing> does someone have build logs ?
17:37 < tfing> the build log of pango in fact
17:44 < rolla> yeah
17:45 < rolla> <rock-root>/var/adm/logs
17:45 < tfing> not mine, i want a good one :)
17:45 < rolla> ?
17:45 < rolla> I am not sure I understand the question
17:46 < tfing> i'd like to see the build log of a correct pango build
17:46 < rolla> mom
17:46 < rolla> you want email to you?
17:47 < tfing> yes please, tenfingers@ifrance.com
17:48 < rolla> sent
17:48 < tfing> ok, thx
17:48 < rolla> np
18:10 < rolla> grrrr
18:13 < esden> ok mail to Joey sent
18:14 < rolla> esden: :)
18:16 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@pD9E09A80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:16 < dzafez> hi ROCK
18:17 < rolla> re dzafez
18:17 < dzafez> is mike just idling?
18:18 < rolla> sure I have not seen him talk at all to day
18:18 < dzafez> he probably left the box on over night
18:18 < esden> hi dzafez 
18:18 < rolla> ja
18:18 < dzafez> hi esden
18:19 < dzafez> well daes anyone want to help me?
18:19 < netrunner> can somebody here share 'Heroes of Might and Magic 4'?
18:19 < netrunner> hi esden! awake again? :)
18:19 < Mike1> actually rolla and dzafez i am just here :)
18:19 < rolla> dzafez: what is your problem
18:20 < rolla> Mike1: if you scroll back you can see my hate of package selection :)
18:20 < dzafez> well I would like to get my debian to use devfs for compiling ROCK but it yust
18:20 < Mike1> rolla: hehe
18:20 < dzafez> won't let me install devfsd
18:20 < rolla> dzafez: you having problems compiling the new kernel?
18:20 < Mike1> dzafez: i have 2 systems running debian which i use to develop rock
18:21 < rolla> speaking of which oh goes it on the alphas Mike1 ?
18:21 < Mike1> dzafez: apt-get install devfsd ??
18:21 < dzafez> root@box:/home/dzafez# apt-get install devfsd
18:21 < dzafez> Reading Package Lists... Done
18:21 < dzafez> Building Dependency Tree... Done
18:21 < dzafez> The following NEW packages will be installed:
18:21 < dzafez>   devfsd
18:21 < dzafez> 0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 668  not upgraded.
18:21 < dzafez> Need to get 0B/43.4kB of archives. After unpacking 158kB will be used.
18:21 < dzafez> dpkg: kann das Updates-Verzeichnis »/var/lib/dpkg/updates/« nicht einlesen: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
18:21 < dzafez> esden: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
18:21 < Mike1> rolla: i am starting build on the alphas today possibly, but i need to solve the kernel issues first
18:22 < rolla> okay cool
18:22 < Mike1> dzafez: don't be mean to me, english
18:22 < dzafez> cool he makes esden: out of E:
18:22 -!- Be-El [be-el@pD952519D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:23 < dzafez> It basically says he can't read »/var/lib/dpkg/updates/« wich is no wonder since it does not exist.
18:23 < rolla> sounds like a debian problem ;)
18:24 < dzafez> but why did it work all the time and now...
18:26 -!- trekkie3k [~k3t@pD9005726.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #rocklinux ("...")
18:27 < dzafez> you will think "Dzafez is a stupid idiot" but it work now after "mkdir  /lib/dpkg/update"
18:27 < dzafez> hm
18:27 < dzafez> it's amazing
18:28 < dzafez> Why didn't I think of this in the first place?
18:29 < dzafez> ohm c you later I am goint to kernelconfig, compile, try'n'error to get my devfs going
18:29 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@pD9E09A80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
18:34 < _NULL_> re
18:36 < Mike1> Wilkomen _NULL_
18:36 < _NULL_> thx. Mike1
18:36 < _NULL_> ah... Mike1 - not pyro... ;)
18:37 -!- Mike1 is now known as Pyro
18:37 * _NULL_ kicks Pyro 
18:37 < Pyro> I though you wanted Pyro to show up :)
18:37 < _NULL_> Pyro: nope. not really...
18:38 -!- Pyro is now known as Mike1
18:38 < _NULL_> *g*
18:38 < Mike1> ok :)
18:47 -!- rxr [~rxr@port-212-202-174-176.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has joined #rocklinux
18:47 < rxr> hi
18:47 < Mike1> hi rxr
18:49 < rxr> hi
18:57 < rxr> damn reinstalling the primary router sucks - really !
18:57 < rxr> but as you can see it is up again ...
18:59 * rxr taking a look at hgst about the status of my RMA hard-disks
19:08 < rxr> apache is running again (incl. subversion)
19:23 < rxr> erhm - plesae do not use the server intensively yet
19:23 < Mike1> ...?
19:23 < rxr> it is just barely configured - and aside from some new kernel reboots also need to be moved to it's old location ...
19:23 * rxr hears the RAID array working hard during svn checkouts ...
19:30 < rxr> Mike1: do you know of a very good DNS proxy ?
19:31 < rxr> Committed revision 268.
19:32 < Mike1> rxr no, sorry.
19:35 -!- trekkie3k [~k3t@pD9005726.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:35 < _NULL_> hi trekkie3k
19:35 < trekkie3k> hi _NULL_
19:37 < rxr> ouhh so much work to be done to reconfigure the wohle server  :-(
19:38 < rxr> hm I wonder when Hitachi Global Storage's RMA chech will display s.th. other than "Received but not shipped "
19:38 < rxr> I need those drives back ...
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19:50 < rolla> == 12:48:52 =[5]=> Building clifford/tse3 [0.2.7 2.0.0-beta3].
19:55 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@pD9E09A80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
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20:57 < rolla> == 13:55:48 =[5]=> Building gnome2/dia10 [0.91 2.0.0-beta3].
20:58 < tcr> moin all
21:02 < rxr> hi tcr
21:04 < rxr> so - the server is getting into shape again ...
21:08 < daja77> re
21:10 < daja77> rxr: good to see you back
21:11 < daja77> rolla: have you finally kicked out kde from your build?
21:15 < rolla> yes
21:15 < rolla> I had to keep trying over and over and it finally took
21:15 < rolla> and then I had to repeat for the 2nd line as well
21:16 < daja77> rolla: what was the solution?
21:25 < dzafez> gn8 ROCK
21:25 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@pD9E09A80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
21:25 < rolla> to keep trying
21:25 < rolla> it is still broken
21:25 < daja77> :-(
21:26 < daja77> hmm strange my mail hasn't found its way to the rtai mailinglist...
21:28 < _NULL_> <-- sleeping. gn8
21:28 < daja77> gn8 _NULL_
21:30 -!- k3t_ [~k3t@pD9005702.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
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21:31 -!- k3t_ is now known as trekkie3k
21:31 < daja77> hi trekkie3k
21:31 < trekkie3k> re
21:41 < rolla> == 14:29:42 =[5]=> Building clifford/mysqlcc [0.8.10 2.0.0-beta3].
21:42 < daja77> hmm the italians are freaks ;)
21:43 < Mike1> ?
21:43 < daja77> the named the rtai trees, etna, magma and stromboli
21:45 < rolla> ha ha
21:45 < daja77> *g*
21:45 < Mike1> :|
21:45 < tcr> Heh, at least that speaks for their originality
21:46 < daja77> yeah and the names would fit for _rock_ linux too ;)
21:48 -!- tsa [~tsa@pD9E12146.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:48 < daja77> hi tsa
21:49 < tsa> hi daja77
21:49 * tcr eating a Milchschnitte
21:50 < daja77> tcr: *würg* ;)
21:50 < tcr> Why so?
21:51 < daja77> well lemme say I don't like it, anyway enjoy!
21:51 < tcr> As if I'd really care :P
21:51 < daja77> :p
21:53 < tcr> Hmm, I just realized that I can type with my left hand a lot faster than with my right one
21:53 < daja77> you should consider switching
21:54 < tcr> I tend to use only two, maximally three fingers of my right hand, whereas I use all fingers of my left hand
21:54 < tcr> I'm a right hander actually...
21:54 < rolla> == 14:53:28 =[5]=> Building mnemoc/openldap [2.1.18 2.0.0-beta3].
21:55 < rolla> build is going much better now that I removed KDE ;)
21:59 < daja77> well I am off now, cu tomorrow
21:59 < n00kie> bye daja77
22:00 < n00kie> == 21:59:57 =[9]=> Building rene/sylpheed [0.8.11 2.0.0-beta3].
22:02 -!- fusel [~linuxdev@pD9E39B84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client Exiting")
22:04 < rolla> == 15:02:11 =[5]=> Building rene/vim [6.1 2.0.0-beta3].
22:04 < rolla> cool it is moving now
22:06 < n00kie> err
22:06 < n00kie> == 05/16/03 22:02:45 =[9]=> Aborted building package sylpheed.
22:08 < rolla> suck
22:14 < rxr> n00kie: sylpheed has just been fixed in svn ...
22:14 < n00kie> ah
22:14 < tsa> rxr: when did you last sync with cliffords cvs?
22:15 < n00kie> I'm trying to fix the bug by my own :)
22:16 < rxr> tsa: I mailed him two or three days ago
22:16 < rxr> today he asked for a patch - so I resent this 250kB mail ...
22:16 < tsa> rxr: can you convince him to close his cvs server from public access?
22:16 < rxr> n00kie: simply update the package to 0.9.0 ...
22:17 < rxr> tsa: why ?
22:17 < n00kie> mm
22:17 < tsa> two servers are confusing, there should be only one master server, imho
22:17 < n00kie> but i want to get more coding experience :)
22:19 < rxr> tsa: that is the difference between stable tree and devel tree ...
22:20 < rxr> and we are no company - so when cliff has too less time currently, what should we do other than workaround this ...
22:20 < rxr> aber vielleicht ist nach 2.0 auch devel in SVN, von Cliff heute:
22:20 < rxr> Nach 2.0 werd' ich mich dann mal eine zeitlang um dinge wie homepage
22:20 < rxr> kuemmern und erst spaeter einen 2.1er tree (mit svn als
22:20 < rxr> versionsverwaltung) forken. Soweit mein plan.
22:20 < tsa> ah
22:23 < tcr> Hmm..
22:23 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has joined #rocklinux
22:23 < LocalHero> Hi all
22:23 < tcr> Well, at that time, we might be able to ship to arch. Large parts are currently under rewriting into C
22:24 < rxr> tsa: I'll not test yet another just started thing - with subversin I do have all the feautures I need and it is stable here
22:25 < rxr> I do not gonna throw my code into s.th. just hacked up and yet converted into yet another language ...
22:26 < rxr> s/tsa/tcr/
22:26 < tsa> rxr: there are still some pending patches on the list and i'm considering doing a new build....
22:26 < tsa> rxr: could you apply whatever sounds reasonable?
22:26 < tsa> ;-)
22:27 < tcr> rxr: With svn _you_ might have everything _you_ want, _you_ as maintainer
22:27 < rxr> tsa: hm - that is pending ?
22:28 < rolla> == 15:25:45 =[5]=> Building rene/transcode [0.6.3 2.0.0-beta3].
22:28 < rxr> tcr: I do not see any develer/contributer complaining
22:28 < tsa> rxr:
22:28 < tsa>    7640     05/15 Juergen George  (1.4K) [rock-linux] [PATCH][TRIVIAL] glut: scheme in URL missing
22:28 < tsa>    7641     05/15 Juergen George  ( 15K) [rock-linux] [PATCH] lesstif,openmotif: man page clashes, update -> install_wrapper.sh fil
22:28 < tsa>    7644     05/16 Stefan Fiedler  (1.8K) [rock-linux] [PATCH] base/minicom update
22:28 < tsa> or are they already applied?
22:29 < tsa> <- just building svn, can't check this now..
22:29 < tcr> rxr: For example the recent discussion about those .desktop files between you and niko... niko said in any mail, that he seems to do work for nothing (because many patches g et lost or whatever) -- if niko had the possibility to have a _full_ local repository with _all_ permission on that, it'd be much easier for him and for maintainers.
22:29 < rxr> tcr: when for the whole Linux kernel patch is enought for s.o. like Alan Cox, ... any SCM should be fine for people not sending patches for ROCK ...
22:30 < rxr> tcr: that wouln't have made the contributed patches any better ...
22:30 < tsa> hm..missed some of the discussion...
22:30 < tsa> tcr: what are you proposing?
22:31 < tcr> rxr: But he'd have a tool at hand with which he can keep track on his modifications and on the main tree
22:32 < tcr> rxr: I don't say that patches wouldn't be enough (arch isn't much more than a sophiscated framework about mkpatch/dopatch (extended diff/patch))
22:32 -!- aszlig [~aszlig@2001:8d8:80:11:0:0:0:4d] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:33 < rxr> this whole thing was not about keeping track of s.th. but of adding rather ugly code ...
22:33 < rxr> and he could keep track when I would finally compile subversion on his box ...
22:33 < rxr> s/I/he/
22:34 -!- aszlig [~aszlig@2001:8d8:80:11:0:0:0:4d] has joined #rocklinux
22:34 < tcr> Ok let me try to express what I mean once again: Arch would minimize the way how contributors and maintainers work, because every contributor will become a maintainer of his local copy
22:34 < tcr> minimize the difference of the way ...
22:35 < tsa> what is arch?
22:35 < tcr> tsa: http://arch.fifthvision.net
22:36 < rxr> tcr: maybe you could start coding / testing instead of choosing the SCM for us ...
22:36 < rxr> ;-)
22:36 < tsa>  With arch, there is no "central repository".
22:36 < tsa> hm...
22:38 < tcr> rxr: I'll. You know, I'm going to get a new XP 1,7ghz... though I'm actually in the mood of coding, I arranged with myself, that I'll spend this month to others things.
22:39 < tsa> hm...there's several things i don't like about the current way the repositories are kept..
22:42 < tcr> rxr: See, my point is, if we change (what is absolutely necessarily, actually), we should change to some thing that offers the best future.
22:42 < tcr> rxr: You just chose svn because of the speed increase, or are there any other things?
22:43 < rxr> tcr: I do not see a better future for arch or whatever fork
22:43 < tsa> tcr: i consider the policy more important than the used software.
22:43 < rxr> tcr: sure versioned moves, deletes, copies, ...
22:43 < rxr> and it is a designed architecture not some shell hacks ...
22:44 < rxr> tsa: what don't you like ?
22:44 < tcr> What is rocklinux then?
22:44 < tcr> Not some shell hacks?
22:44 < tsa> rxr: several things.
22:44 < tsa> * write access for package maintainers
22:44 < tsa> * write access for all developers to all packages
22:44 < tcr> No that's not neccessary!
22:44 < rxr> tsa: pfrhhhhhh - nope
22:44 < tsa> * branching instrad of different repositories.
22:45 < tsa> * package- and tree-maintainer placed tags
22:46 < rxr> tsa: yes - the branching is a thing - but with a SCM just starting how should be do better?
22:46 < rxr> what package and tree maintainer tags ?
22:46 < tsa> i.e. every developer can change a package. only the pkg maintainer can set his maintainer "tag", and only the tree maintainer can set his "final" branch tag.
22:46 < rxr> (and maybe shoosen packages maintainer get write access - but not yet in the current situation)
22:47 < tsa> rxr: i don't care about which software would be used for that.
22:47 < tsa> and a reasonable release policy would be good, too...btw
22:47 < rxr> tsa: I think this will not be possible with arch ...
22:48 < tsa> rxr: i don't know enough about it to judge. cvs can do that, svn probably too.
22:48 < rxr> tsa: but write access for all - or the maintainers for the packages might be done later - currently we have to stabelize all
22:48 < rxr> and even Huebi said his write access thing was a bad idea ...
22:49 < tcr> tsa: That's not necessary. Imagine the following scenario: A repository maintainer has a local 'repository branch' (that absolutely independant on anything outside his computer), via a policy only he has to care about this repository, ie. applying patches of others to his local repository branch. Once he has enough, or confirmed them working, he writes to the maintainer to pull from his local archive (that's made remotely accessable)
22:49 < tsa> rxr: write access for all developers doesn't do any harm as long as the package and tree maintainers still will have to set the appropriate tags.
22:50 < tsa> i will definitely _not_ maintain my packages in 20 different locations.
22:51 < tsa> that's too much work with too less gain.
22:51 < tcr> Hm? You just maintain them locally
22:52 < rxr> tcr: you locality thing does not help in any way for maintaining a -devel and -stable branch ...
22:52 -!- jose [~jose@196.40.45.146] has joined #rocklinux
22:52 -!- LocalHero [LocalHero@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has quit ()
22:52 < rxr> tsa: for whom where the last two lines from you ?
22:53 < tsa> rxr: to whomever might be interested.
22:53 < tcr> rxr: Blah. The maintainer doesn't need to care about updates patches (except for those of his own repo), and when he pulls from some repository maintainer, he gets the assurence of the repo maintainer, that the patch works
22:53 < tcr> rxr: And so the maintainer is able to concentrate on other things
22:54 < rxr> tcr: still - it does not help in any way for two brachnes
22:54 < mnemoc> re :-)
22:54 < rxr> tcr: and still - considering the quality of about 40% of the patches I would not pull without care anyway ...
22:54 < Mike1> welcome back mnemoc
22:55 < rxr> tcr: e.g. the nikolaus repository where not a single packages was buildable ...
22:55 < mnemoc> thank you mike
22:55 < rxr> hi mnemoc
22:55 < tcr> rxr: What two branches thing?!
22:55 < mnemoc> hi {rxr,tcr,tsa}
22:55 < rxr> again: -devel -stable tree ...
22:55 < tsa> rxr: does your release policy allow shared files?
22:56 < rxr> tsa: what do you mean? for 2.0? Nope.
22:56 < tcr> rxr: I never said that you should just pull without any reviewing. There'd just one 'middleman' more.
22:56 < tsa> rxr: i'm talking about the courier-imap package
22:56 < rxr> tsa: some imapd thing ?
22:56 < tsa> rxr: yes.
22:56 < rxr> tsa: we will see
22:57 < tcr> rxr: I don't get what you mean with <rxr> tcr: you locality thing does not help in any way for maintaining a -devel and -stable branch ...
22:57 < tsa> conflicts with the imapd from the pine package.
22:57 < rxr> tsa: I also would vote for renaming in pine (or mutt or what it was)
22:57 < rxr> but I'm not the maintainer of both packages - and use neither ...)
22:57 < tsa> rxr: i will definitely _not_ add a patch because of this conflict.
22:57 < mnemoc> what about a config.in bool for a symlink to imapd?
22:57 < rxr> tsa: why this underline not ?
22:58 < rxr> mnemoc: IMHO we already have too many fluffy config options - they should get a rework ...
22:58 < tsa> rxr: because i consider renaming the wrong way in this case.
22:59 < rxr> tsa: they can be both installed - and to choose one ... - they need to get different names
22:59 < tsa> rxr: if there will not be any other solution, the courier-imap package should be removed from the tree.
22:59 < mnemoc> (mailbox is as deprecated as makedev)
22:59 < rxr> tsa: hm? Just because of one name conflict ?
22:59 < tsa> rxr: yes.
22:59 < mnemoc> imapd.$pkg for every iampd?
23:00 < tsa> rxr: i don't like the setmailer stuff, too.
23:00 < rxr> tsa: should we remove all mailers because they share the unix std name thing ?
23:01 < tsa> this is just crippling packages. i'd rather introduce a tag for conflicting packages.
23:01 < tsa> rxr: see last comment.
23:01 < tsa> no one will install both postfix and sendmail, or 5 different imapds..
23:02 < tsa> AAAARGH!
23:02 < tsa> $ svn
23:02 < tsa> svn: error while loading shared libraries: libsvn_client-1.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
23:03 < tcr> rxr: If you want, I'll write up a small presentation about 'Why I consider arch as an extremely useful development toll for ROCK Linux'. But only if you promise that you'll discuss that in a technically view, and not just saying categorically no
23:04 < tcr> (btw. one problem of the ROCK mailinglist is that requests etc don't get really discussed -- one indication more to split it off in rock-dev and rock-discuss, imho ;))
23:04 < rxr> tcr: you can write it - but I can yet say that I looked into subversion since last autumn, and I'll use this for other projects anyway, so I'll not go and change this again.
23:04 < rxr> if you invent a time machine then we can talk about this.
23:05 < rxr> tcr: maybe you can convince cliff for 2.1-devel ...
23:05 < mnemoc> cvs:1.7 svn:20 arch:21 <-- isn't it chaotic?
23:05 < rxr> or pay me fulltime - so I can get rid of this writing CAD applicatoins for Windows thing ...
23:05 < tcr> I don't talk about 2.0. But for everything that comes after it (sorry, when I sounded differently)
23:05 < rxr> then I would have the time to adapt to yet another SCM ...
23:05 < tsa> lol
23:06 < tsa> rxr: your using windows?
23:06 < tsa> arghs..
23:06 < tcr> rxr: And this 'I'm used to it, so I won't change' is pretty naive. Why didn't you stay on windows then? (assuming, you switched once from win to linux)
23:06 < mnemoc> rxr is answering mails from outlook :)
23:08 < rxr> mnemoc: but I'm not answering with Outlock from any of my boxes. I do this only because this is currently the best possiblity to get the money I need to live and to open-source development ...
23:09 < tcr> rxr: It's not shameful to earn money for making a living ;)
23:09 < mnemoc> fyi, i have xp at home and work as ntadmin and developing in c#
23:09 < rxr> tcr: that not naive. CVS is too limited, so I used my own script set for merging - and since I read all the papers last year I choosed subversin for many reasons (IMHO best design, all the feaures I need), ... and thus I'm happy with it ...
23:10 < rxr> mnemoc: I now ;-)
23:11 < tcr> rxr: Might. But I consider arch to be a _technically_ better rcs for open source developing in general, and especially for rocklinux with its package repositories
23:11 < rxr> tcr: hm? Could you rephrase your "shameful" sentence so I get it's exact content ?
23:11 < tcr> might be
23:11 < tcr> rxr: It's not a sin to work in win environments to make a living
23:12 < rxr> tcr: ah well I overread the It's slightly ....
23:13 < rolla> == 16:07:11 =[5]=> Building rene/octave [2.1.44 2.0.0-beta3].
23:13 < rxr> tcr: and this windows thing has a really nice advantage - I know all the odds of Windows again ... ;-)
23:18 < mnemoc> rxr: what did you decided about arch/*/download.txt?
23:18 < mnemoc> rejected because of uml discussion?
23:19 < tsa> how do i update my rock tree with svn?
23:19 < tcr> Ok, I'll go sleeping now. Heh, I already stole too much time from rxr ;) Sorry, for my nasty-being ;)
23:20 < tsa> svn up ?
23:20 < mnemoc> svn up
23:20 < tsa> ok, thanks.
23:20 < tcr> gn8 all
23:20 < tsa> <-using svn for the first time.
23:20 < mnemoc> n8 tcr
23:20 -!- tcr [~tobrit@pD958DE2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ho chresim eidos uch hoch poll eidos sophos")
23:22 < praenti> hi. anybody here?
23:23 < mnemoc> i'm somebody
23:23 < praenti> ok. than i'm not alone
23:23 < praenti> ;-)
23:23 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M268P030.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:24 < praenti> does anybody know what this command stand for: sed -n "s@.* @@p"
23:24 < praenti> i have some probs to understand the syntax
23:25 < mnemoc> @ is used as delimiter
23:25 < mnemoc> instead of /
23:25 < praenti> ahh. ok
23:25 < praenti> ok now i understand it
23:25 < mnemoc> you can use any char as delimiter with sed
23:26 < praenti> mnemoc: thats new to me. but you know you cant know everything
23:27 < praenti> btw. can you eplain me the p at the end. is this reverse scanning?
23:29 < praenti> or a good webpage to read about regex.
23:29 < mnemoc> p is for print.... -n is for no auto print...
23:30 < mnemoc> it prints the lines with spaces? weird.. i guess i'm missing something
23:31 < praenti> its ugly to play with regex without my perl book...
23:33 < tsa> hmpf.
23:33 < tsa> this svn co takes ages..
23:33 < mnemoc> but up is faster
23:37 < rxr> mnemoc: oh I still need to take a look ;-)
23:38 < praenti> anybody a good link for regex?
23:38 < mnemoc> rxr: ok
23:39 < rxr> tsa: the RAID array is currently running in low-performance mode since it uses a spare area which is on a disk also uses as normal area
23:40 < rxr> (I currently have two disks send to Hitachi Global Storage)
23:40 < rxr> so in some days the performance of the array should increase by some hundred percent
23:40 < tsa> what kind of raid controller?
23:41 < praenti> ARG. I#m too stupid for regex...
23:41 < rxr> and I'll also mirror the svn at gmsp.tfh-berlin.de (currently you do the this over my DSL line ...)
23:41 < tsa> (say promise and make me laugh)
23:41 < rxr> tsa: erhm - Huestel - software RAID ...
23:41 < tsa> hehe..better than promise controllers.
23:41 < rxr> but at least better than promisse ...
23:41 < rxr> ;-)
23:42 < rxr> tsa: but I read the code and debugged it once - the code is UGLY !
23:42 < rxr> really a big mess (at least the in-kernel config stuff
23:42 < tsa> indeed. a raid controller that reports the single disks to the OS should not be named "RAID"
23:42 < tsa> <- still looking for a cheap mylex extremeraid 2000 ;-)
23:43 < rxr> but the RAID stuff was written by the GNOME guy Miguel de Icazza - I now his average code quality
23:43 < rxr> I wonder how he made it to the mono (or so) .NET replacement ...
23:44 < rxr> tsa: and currently a hot-backup is running on the subversion repository (currently I configure the mirroring ...)
23:44 < tsa> ah..
23:47 < rxr> tsa: what disk can you recommend? In the past I only had IBM. In former times this was a good choise (IMO) - but not recently. And since IBM isn't for disks anymore anyway ...
23:48 < rxr> what is your favourite ?
23:48 < tsa> rxr: i'm using ibm and fujitsu disks here...but only scsi stuff.
23:48 < tsa> seagate should be ok, too.
23:49 < rxr> hm seagate and western digital are companies I already had disk problems with ...
23:59 < rxr> tsa: cliff applied my patch - the next sync with cliff is out, too:  86k
23:59 < tsa> ok
--- Log closed Sat May 17 00:00:06 2003