--- Log opened Thu Jun 26 00:00:13 2003
--- Day changed Thu Jun 26 2003
00:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9E78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Mess with the best, die like the rest!")
00:17 < daja77> re
00:18 < daja77> Ge0rG: if rxr shows up, tell him about ur install problems yesterday
00:19 * Mike1 would like to hear about Ge0rG's install problem..
00:20 < daja77> hey I suddenly have enlightenment about the speech, guess I work all n8 on it
00:21 < daja77> Mike1: stone brakes, when you manually kick out packages
00:21 < Mike1> 0_o
00:21 < daja77> breaks even
00:21 < Mike1> revision?
00:21 < daja77> 586 - 621
00:21 * Mike1 does not remember any change on any stone stuff lately
00:22 < daja77> you tested manually deselecting packages?
00:22 < Mike1> always do.
00:22 < daja77> it said /mnt/target/tmp/stone_postinst.sh not found
00:23 < daja77> it work when doin full install ...
00:23 < Mike1> mmm...
00:23 < Mike1> quite extrange
00:23 < Mike1> i will check on that on my current builds
00:23 * Mike1 currently running 6 builds..
00:23 < daja77> I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes
00:24 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
00:25 -!- huebi_ [~huebi@pD9522794.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
00:25 < Mike1> daja77: mm...
00:25 < Mike1> hi huebi
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00:39 * daja77 notes he likes the question: which revision
00:39 * daja77 notes he should stop making notes
00:39 < Mike1> daja77: why?
00:40 * Mike1 notes it is usefull to note :)
00:40 < Mike1> .o0 (i need coffee)
00:41 < daja77> Mike1: cos I like the rev stuff of subversion, and it is more precise than asking for checkout date or sth
00:41 < Mike1> daja77: yes :)
00:41 < daja77> Mike1: how long are you around today?
00:43 < Mike1> a few more hours
00:43 * daja77 too
00:44 < daja77> busy working on speech ;-)
00:46 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has joined #rocklinux
00:46 < jsaw> re
00:47 < daja77> huhu jsaw, busy night?
00:47 < Mike1> daja77: lots of fun, /me busy with many things
00:47 < jsaw> hi daja77. more or less.
00:47 < daja77> welcome to the club :)
00:48 < jsaw> what are you doin?
00:49 < daja77> preparing a speech for tomorrow
00:50 < jsaw> nice. actually I like giving talks.
00:51 -!- _Caspar__ [~steven261@M117P006.dipool.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
00:51 < daja77> but not of I was told yesterday to give it on thursday
00:57 < jsaw> come on, that's plenty of time... ;-))))
00:58 < daja77> I was in Magdeburg yesterday ...
00:58 * daja77 hates phones
00:58 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has joined #rocklinux
00:59 < daja77> O_o Ge0rG is back :)
01:00 * Ge0rG always returns ;)
01:01 < daja77> .oO you said you are coming to C
01:01 < daja77> does this means you return there too?
01:02 < Ge0rG> I was there once... maybe 10 years ago
01:03 < daja77> ic
01:03 < daja77> so you would return even this time :)
01:03 -!- n00kie_ [~n00kie@M298P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
01:04 < daja77> unbelieveable that I was the 2nd time in MD this year ...
01:04 * Mike1 wonders where is rxr ...
01:07 * daja77 too
01:08 < daja77> Ge0rG: btw you are ever just a few people
01:08 < daja77> ?
01:09 < Ge0rG> daja77: it was my first time at a mdlug theme evening
01:11 < daja77> hehe for me too :)
01:12 < Ge0rG> but you don't live here ;)
01:12 < daja77> yepp ...
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01:34 * daja77 happy to be able to copy TeX code from previous talks
01:47 < Mike1> don't be such a lazy ass, write something from scratch :)
01:48 < tfing> Mike1: why don't you write mike linux then ? ;)
01:48 < Mike1> tfing: ?
01:48 < Mike1> you mean my own distro?
01:48 < tfing> write your own distro from scratch yeah
01:49 < daja77> Mike1: not this night :P
01:49 < Mike1> tfing: hehe, actually i have been doing this for quite a while, i will make the first release sometime in july
01:49 < daja77> or december
01:49 * daja77 hides
01:50 < Mike1> daja77: no actually you are right, it all depends on my time availability
01:50 < Mike1> as well as on my inspiration to code :)
01:50 * daja77 inspiring Mike1
01:51 < daja77> Committed revision 20. :)
01:51 < Mike1> anyways this chan is no place talk about it. ;)
01:51 < Mike1> daja77: huh?
01:51 < Mike1> revision 20 of what? where?
01:52 < daja77> of the talk, or the praktikum src, I put it all in svn repo :)
01:52 < Mike1> daja77: nice. :)
01:52 < Mike1> rolla: ping
01:52 < daja77> well I worked with my sister on this, so it was easier to keep in sync
01:53 -!- _Caspar__ [~steven261@M117P006.dipool.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:57 -!- kaerF [~freak@p508B202E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
01:57 < Mike1> re kaerF
01:58 < Mike1> should i say ykaerF
01:58 < Mike1> ?
01:58 < daja77> hehe
01:59 < Mike1> ping rxr
02:05 -!- bauhaus [~bauhaus@host81-7-56-88.surfport24.v21.co.uk] has joined #rocklinux
02:05 < bauhaus> i have a zip100 plus drive and to use it, as root i executed: /sbin/modprobe imm and then  mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /mnt  but i got : mount: /dev/sda4 is not a valid block device
02:06 < bauhaus> i tried /dev/sda1 too
02:06 < daja77> ahem hi bauhaus
02:06 < Mike1> what does dmesg say?
02:06 < bauhaus> kernel: imm: Found device at ID 6, Attempting to use EPP 32 bit
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel: imm: Found device at ID 6, Attempting to use PS/2
02:07 < Mike1> ... keep going..
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel: imm: Communication established at 0x378 with ID 6 using PS/2
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel: scsi0 : Iomega VPI2 (imm) interface
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel:   Vendor: IOMEGA    Model: ZIP 100 PLUS      Rev: J.66
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel:   Type:   Direct-Access                      ANSI SCSI revision: 02
02:07 < Mike1> bauhaus: it should /dev/sda ..
02:07 < bauhaus> kernel: Attached scsi removable disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 6, lun 0
02:08 < bauhaus> localhost kernel: scsi: device set offline - not ready or command retry failed after bus reset: host 0 channel 0 id 6 lun 0
02:08 < daja77> ahem what about sdf
02:08 < bauhaus> kernel: SCSI device sda: 196608 512-byte hdwr sectors (101 MB)
02:08 < bauhaus> kernel: sda: Write Protect is off
02:08 < Mike1> daja77: nah it is /dev/sda .
02:08 < bauhaus> kernel:  sda: I/O error: dev 08:00, sector 0
02:08 < bauhaus> kernel:  I/O error: dev 08:00, sector 0
02:08 < Mike1> but those errors... mm..
02:08 < bauhaus> kernel:  unable to read partition table
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02:09 < bauhaus> end of transmission
02:09 < daja77> your disk seems to be broken
02:09 < bauhaus> daja77: the media is OK. i tried it under w2k and works ok
02:10 < Mike1> bauhaus: try : mount -t vfat /dev/sda /mnt/
02:10 < Mike1> even try simply: mount /dev/sda /mnt/
02:10 < bauhaus>  mount -t vfat /dev/sda /mnt/  i get error:  mount: /dev/sda is not a valid block device
02:11 < bauhaus> mount /dev/sda /mnt/ same error as above
02:11 < Mike1> you must be missing something on ur kernel and / or the driver for ur zip is not working properly
02:11 < Mike1> makeybe you want to try to recompile ur kernel?
02:11 * Mike1 wonders which kernel version is bauhaus using.
02:12 < daja77> hmm just an idea, could it be that the disk has a so called superfloppy format?
02:12 < Mike1> daja77: no.
02:12 < daja77> what about fdisk /dev/sda?
02:12 < bauhaus> Mike1: i am not using a self compiled kernel
02:13 < Mike1> bauhaus: what distribution are you using?
02:13 < bauhaus> redhat 9
02:13 < bauhaus> yes i did try #redhat but no luck!
02:13 < Mike1> bauhaus: please compile ur own kernel, if it doesn't work, as again
02:13 < Mike1> ask*
02:13 < jsaw> bauhaus: can you "cat /dev/sda > file"
02:15 < bauhaus> cat /dev/sda > file i get error: cat: /dev/sda: No such device or address   BUT ...
02:15 < bauhaus> ls -l  /dev/sda
02:15 < bauhaus> brw-rw----    1 root     disk       8,   0 Jan 30 10:24 /dev/sda
02:16 < Mike1> bauhaus: /dev/sda is something static...
02:16 < Mike1> bauhaus: use devfs :)
02:16 < jsaw> hehe
02:16 < Mike1> right jsaw?
02:16 < jsaw> RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT
02:17 < bauhaus> i do not want to use devfs, i used it before and got me in a mess! no wonder why redhat does not include it in their stock kernel!
02:17 < Mike1> bauhaus: forget about rh default kernel, its made for the birds, compile ur own kernel, i ensure you will have more chances to succeed on making it work
02:18 < daja77> bauhaus: what's the big deal, use devfsd and it even works with rh
02:18 * daja77 's birthplace is famous for bauhaus btw ...
02:18 < Mike1> bauhaus: indeed, no-devfs systems are mess, devfs brings order.
02:19 < daja77> or just say it rocks ;-)
02:19 < bauhaus> my! oh my! i am a newbie who uses linux as my DESKTOP PC. no wonder why most desktop
02:20 < daja77> no need to scream
02:20 < Mike1> note to who ever cares: did you know rock linux was the first distribution to have devfs in its default kernel?
02:20 < jsaw> bauhaus: relax.
02:20 < daja77> btw desktop rocklinux has devfs + desktop stuff
02:20 * Mike1 is a newbie too
02:20 < Mike1> :)
02:21 < bauhaus> do not wanna know about linux if using something as simple as a zipdrive does involve recompile a kernel. kevin voelkerding (slackware creator) said a desktop user should never have to use a command line interface!
02:22 < Mike1> this is not #slackware
02:22 * Mike1 has no furter comments to do.
02:23 < daja77> bah everyone should have a look at command line, it makes life easier, believe me
02:24 < bauhaus> daja77: my friends ran away. easier than what?
02:24 < daja77> easier than clicking everything
02:25 < daja77> bauhaus: you can even configure your kernel setting in X
02:25 < bauhaus> so wehat is the point of gnome/kde? just to open xterms in a nice gui?
02:26 < daja77> for me yes
02:26 < jsaw> having several xterms on the same screen, easily navigatable with the keyboard...
02:27 * Mike1 normally have 40 - 40 xterms open do his daily stuff
02:27 < Mike1> 40 - 50*
02:27 < bauhaus> daja77: you are still living in 1977, sorry 1987!
02:28 < daja77> bauhaus: get a clue!
02:28 < bauhaus> ok 1997 and i'm being generous!
02:28 < bauhaus> ;)
02:29 < Mike1> bauhaus: hehe you really don't have a clue of what the advantages of open source are right?
02:29 < jsaw> bauhaus: sorry, this is ridiculous.
02:29 < bauhaus> Freedom!
02:29 < daja77> bauhaus: the command line is your friend
02:29 < jsaw> if you can type blindly... otherwise not.
02:29 < Mike1> bauhaus: ok how do you understand freedom? as in "great i pay no licences?"
02:29 < daja77> you are pointing to people or talking to them?
02:29 < bauhaus> the command line is not why i use linux. i could be using bsd or unix instead if that was the case
02:30 < daja77> *rofl*
02:31 < bauhaus> Freedom as in GNU GPL. i paid for my free(dom) software!
02:31 < daja77> btw what help do you expect from us, if you are not willing to learn
02:31 < bauhaus> can i get my moneyt bak at least?
02:31 < bauhaus> ;)
02:31 < Mike1> bauhaus: have you read GPL once at least?
02:31 < jsaw> bauhaus: one last question concerning your zip. did you plug the zip drive before or after booting redhat?
02:31 < daja77> who cares
02:32 < bauhaus> i tried both 5 times. did not make a difference!
02:32 < Mike1> bauhaus: you came over here asking for help, and we were willing to help you, but keep in mind that if your redhat system does not have the proper support for ur zip drive, you will not find anyone who can solve ur problem without recompiling ur kernel
02:33 < daja77> you could ask rh support
02:35 < bauhaus> Mike1: i know. thanks, i appreciate your help. i was just trying to point out why linux as a desktop os for the average home user is dead in the water
02:35 < Mike1> bauhaus: we could help you get ur zip working, but it will require you to recompile ur kernel so we load the proper modules and so, if you are not willing to do it, then sorry i can't help.
02:35 < bauhaus> rh will not give support because i bought the GPL download version of rh9 3xcds
02:36 < daja77> bauhaus: btw zipdrives are quite out of fashion, so I could ask you when you are living ...
02:36 < bauhaus> yes i did try #redhat
02:36 < bauhaus> UK
02:36 < daja77> bauhaus: buy support from them
02:36 < daja77> when not where
02:36 < Mike1> bauhaus: well is up to you what you want to do them, keep trying or recompile ur kernel.
02:37 < bauhaus> zipdrives are still very popular in the UK
02:37 < bauhaus> even now in 2003
02:37 < daja77> likes macs *gg*
02:39 < bauhaus> most of my friends have a zip drive and even though i do not have a mac they are more popular as adesktop os than linux. moreover, isp give tech support to mac users but NO uk isp gives tech suport to linux users!
02:40 < kaerF> hath someone called my name?
02:40 -!- kaerF is now known as Freak
02:41 < Freak> ah, it wath just an ordinary re.
02:52 -!- daja_ [~daja@dialin-145-254-080-167.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
02:52 < daja_> re
02:52 < Mike1> ok i fixed the find - updatedb problem reported by Alan "rock" no more pending fixes for today
02:52 -!- daja77 [~daja@dialin-212-144-087-123.arcor-ip.net] has quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: daja_!~daja@dialin-145-254-080-167.arcor-ip.net)))
02:52 -!- daja_ is now known as daja77
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02:53 < Mike1> lol
02:53 -!- daja77 [~daja@dialin-145-254-080-167.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
02:53 * Mike1 points at daja77 and laughts
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02:53 -!- daja77 [~daja@dialin-145-254-080-167.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
02:54 < daja77> *damn*
02:54 * daja77 stupid tonight
02:54 < Mike1> hahaha!
02:54 < Mike1> nah jk
02:54 < jsaw> tonight?
02:54 < Mike1> good n8 all.
02:54 < jsaw> g'n8
02:54 < daja77> jsaw: gn8
02:54 < daja77> today, whatever
02:55 < jsaw> (this was in reply to Mike1, I'm not leaving the next 4hours...)
02:55 < daja77> hehe me too I fear
02:56 < daja77> gn8 Mike1
02:56 < daja77> bauhaus: try knoppix it is more desktop like
02:56 < jsaw> great. /me now takes a break in fresh air for a couple of mins
02:56 < daja77> cu
03:04 < bauhaus> what? you are still here! you did not mean it mate!
03:04 < daja77> huh?
03:04 < Ge0rG> hehe
03:04 < daja77> I am here again >_<
03:05 < Ge0rG> hm... when I boot 2.5.x, it stops on devfsd init
03:05 < bauhaus> >_< {}
03:05 < daja77> 2.5 package was broken in this build afaik
03:06 < Ge0rG> I've used the source package + vanilla patch to .73
03:07 < Ge0rG> when I deactivate devfsd startup everything works :]
03:07 < daja77> hehe devfsd problem I guess
03:08 < daja77>  your X is working now?
03:10 < Ge0rG> at least with 2.4
03:11 < Ge0rG> and I can make the email led blink ;)
03:12 < daja77> hehe
03:14 -!- huebi_ is now known as huebi
03:14 < daja77> hmm connect it to kbiff or something like that and have fun
03:14 * daja77 waves to huebi
03:14 < huebi> Moin
03:14 < Ge0rG> daja77: I think I'll find a use for it... maybe to notify me to go to bed ;)
03:14 < huebi> hi daja77
03:14 < Ge0rG> hi huebi :)
03:15 < huebi> Ge0rG: hi
03:15 < daja77> huebi: nice to see you again
03:15 < daja77> huebi: do you come to Linuxtag?
03:16 < huebi> daja77: jo, Ill come
03:17 < daja77> great
03:17 * daja77 'll be there too
03:17 < huebi> nice
03:20 < bauhaus> thanks guys gotta go!
03:20 -!- bauhaus [~bauhaus@host81-7-56-88.surfport24.v21.co.uk] has left #rocklinux ("Client Exiting")
03:22 < daja77> yeah he's gone
03:22 < Mike1> oh know, how sad
03:22 < Mike1> *gg*
03:23 < Mike1> sorry i could't resist
03:23 < Mike1> gone again :)
03:23 < daja77> still here?
03:23 < daja77> damn
03:23 < Mike1> daja77: saw huebi and wanted to talk to him
03:23 < daja77> ic
03:35 -!- huebi [~huebi@pD9522794.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Reconnecting")
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04:14 < daja77> gn8 you all
04:15 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@www.digital-dictators.de] has joined #rocklinux
04:15 < holyolli> moin
04:27 < jsaw> moin moin and good bye
04:27 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has quit ("Client Exiting")
04:33 < holyolli> hm. everybody sleeping...?
04:48 < rolla> grrr
04:53 < holyolli> hi rolla
04:53 < rolla> hey holyolli
04:53 < rolla> My new machine will not even give me a vid signal :(
04:53 < holyolli> oh. that's bad!
04:54 < rolla> I have no idea what it could be
04:54 < rolla> I just hooked everything up and turned it on
04:54 < rolla> all fans come on
04:54 < rolla> disk drives spin but nothing to the monitor
04:54 < holyolli> hm. memory checked?
04:55 < rolla> I pulled the memory and still nothing
04:55 < rolla> I get no error beeps either :(
04:57 < holyolli> no idea
04:57 < rolla> :(
05:02 < rolla> oh well sent an email to asus shall see what kind of response I get
05:04 < rolla> good night
05:15 < holyolli> night
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07:18 < rxr> re
08:09 < blindcoder> moin
08:09 < rxr> hi
08:11 < blindcoder> hi rxr
08:14 * rxr showering ...
08:22 < cchamilt> blindcoder?
08:24 < cchamilt> blindcoder: have you tried the lpp patch?
08:29 < daja77> moin
08:30 < rxr> hi daja77
08:31 < cchamilt> rxr:
08:32 < cchamilt> rx: I have made the lpp patch safe to include for targets I think...
08:32 < cchamilt> It checks if you have sysvinit type set to lpp before patching kernel
08:33 < cchamilt> Then it checks to see if the target has a lpp_theme.patch.bz2 in its directory and applies that.
08:34 < cchamilt> The problem is that it is in the form of pkg_linux24* that you have to copy or append to target
08:34 < cchamilt> Is there a better way to add hooks for something like this to the kernel?
08:37 < rxr> I do not think so - but if many targets use it it can also be placed into the package - where the target only needs to enable it - or to "inherite" it from another target the shell way by includign it with ". targets/bla/pkg_linux24*" ...
08:37 < rxr> but I'm showering now - finally
08:37 < cchamilt> Yeah I guess so.
08:38 < cchamilt> I guess this will do till there are good themes people will want...
08:38 < rxr> damn: penguinppc: For your hardcore Linux users out there, Rock Linux has let us know that the current beta is running on PowerPC.
08:38 < cchamilt> I gave it to blindocder, he should polish it and submit it to you.
08:38 < cchamilt> Isnt that good?
08:38 < rxr> are those guys crazy! It is not much harder to install then YDL or debian - and compared to the formerly listed crap - just works ...
08:39 < cchamilt> Well we have a bad image.
08:39 < cchamilt> debian and stone are about as complicated.
08:40 < cchamilt> debian as a binary is actually a little more complicated than rock as a binary even on x86.
08:40 < cchamilt> Oh, I have a linuxrc improvement - interested?
08:41 < cchamilt> It tries the list of devices in a loop till it finds something mountable
08:41 < cchamilt> It then tries to untar the big image
08:41 < cchamilt> If it fails to do this, then it presents the regular questions
08:42 < cchamilt> So you can then do network or load special modules hwscan didn't get
08:42 < rxr> cchamilt: please send it via mail - I'll merge it with my other improvements later
08:43 * daja77 wants to talk about rock bugs, but busy now :-(
08:43 < cchamilt> I haven't actually tried to make it fail, so I dont know how it works then.
08:43 < cchamilt> It does find the image on cdrom0 :)
08:47 < rxr> cchamilt: you send it over?
08:48 < cchamilt> Yeah just a second
08:49 < cchamilt> Damn I have to change back the rock messages....
08:50 < netrunner> moin
08:50 < cchamilt> give me a minute to merge
08:51 < rxr> cchamilt: just mail the plain patch - I'll merge and modify this with my ideas before it get's applied anyway ...
08:52 < netrunner> Job 5-clanlib                 builder (13283) since 08:50 2003-6-26
08:58 < blindcoder> cchamilt: There's only one change I want to make to the lpp so far: A 'generic' theme in case there is no theme for the current target
08:59 < blindcoder> I will make one as soon as I get home on time again for the first time this week
08:59 < blindcoder> (won't be today)
09:03 < cchamilt> rxr: patch you say? :)
09:03 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M301P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
09:03 < cchamilt> hey that might have been a good idea.
09:03 < cchamilt> Thanks blindcoder
09:08 < cchamilt> patch form is on the way.
09:10 * netrunner searching big tent on ebay ... anyone want's to donate :)
09:12 < blindcoder> tent? what for?
09:13 < rxr> wow - and gentoo fluff again on /. ...
09:13 < rxr> this time it gets frok() ed
09:14 < rxr> I'll try to get on /. later, too (damn fluff all the time) ...
09:15 < blindcoder> well... it got forked... so that means that it was crap :)
09:16 < netrunner> blindcoder: camp in august
09:18 < blindcoder> netrunner: I see.
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09:27 < esden> morning
09:33 < esden> netrunner: have you found anything? ...
09:35 < blindcoder> nice...
09:35 * blindcoder just read the paper on why gentoo was fork();ed
09:36 < blindcoder> interesting read... and reveals some of the behind-the-scenes things with gentoo
09:36 < blindcoder> moin esden
09:36 < esden> moin blindcoder 
09:36 < esden> blindcoder: url
09:37 * -> esden wanna read too !!!!
09:37 * daja77 off to uni now
09:37 < esden> *jumparound*
09:37 < esden> have fun daja77 
09:37 < daja77> thx esden
09:37 < esden> de nada 
09:38 < blindcoder> esden: /.
09:38 < blindcoder> http://www.zynot.org/info/fork.html
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09:41 < esden> blindcoder: no time for /.
09:41 < esden> blindcoder: thank you
09:47 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M301P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
09:58 < rxr> btw er have a tiny note on www.penguinppc.org
09:58 < rxr> ;-)
09:59 < blindcoder> *click*
09:59 < rxr> blindcoder: but the text sucks - I mailed them a full page of info - and they made such a crap out of it ...
10:00 < rxr> I also asked to get into the dist menu on the left - let's see if this happens ...
10:00 -!- n00kie_ [~n00kie@M301P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
10:01 < blindcoder> hmm.... it would ROCK if it would be put there :)
10:11 < rxr> blindcoder: jups
10:12 < blindcoder> talking about ports, how is the Sparc Port going?
10:12 < blindcoder> s/going/working/
10:12 < rxr> blindcoder: packages compile well - still kernel and boot work ...
10:13 * rxr at work - cu
10:14 < blindcoder> hmm... okay
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10:46 < esden> re hi all
10:46 < blindcoder> wb
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10:56 < esden> hmm ... nice ... I am asking myself how many devs will leave the "old" gentoo in favor of the fork
10:57 < esden> I hope that it will not happen to us that we have to fork once more. Keyword "dROCK" ...
10:57 < blindcoder> it might happen again. But I don't hope so.
10:57 < esden> blindcoder: ack
10:58 < esden> the more developers join rock the more it gets probable that there will be a fork
10:58 < esden> question: has debian ever forked?
10:58 < blindcoder> good question
10:59 < blindcoder> there are a lot "ebian-based" things
10:59 < blindcoder> but an actual fork... I don't think so
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11:02 < esden> blindcoder: hmm ... ok ... I also never heard of a real fork
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11:26 < netrunner> hm ... I just had 5-ccbench.todo/.job in the queue, without the buildprozcesses noticing it. now i removed it and the build is finished.
11:26 < netrunner> this makes 35h for a desktop build without stage 9
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11:43 < owl> hi
11:43 < owl> is the cvs of clifford still up-to-date? (with packages and so?)
11:44 < blindcoder> no
11:44 < blindcoder> use rxr's svn
11:44 < owl> hrmpf. oki. thx. hm. .oO(manual downloading of packages will be fun *argh*)
11:44 < blindcoder> ???
11:44 < owl> hm. and bye again
11:44 < blindcoder> erm... manual?
11:45 < owl> blindcoder: i'm using rock only to abuse the ./scripts/Download...
11:45 < blindcoder> hrm
11:45 < blindcoder> so what's wrong with svn?
11:47 < owl> a) i don't have it installed (*g* not really a problem) - b) i don't know how to use it (and not willed to learn --> too lazy)
11:48 < blindcoder> svn has the same command set as cvs
11:48 < blindcoder> andc) just download beta-6
11:48 < blindcoder> it's recent with all but one or two packages
11:49 < owl> download beta-6 ? .iso or what do you mean?
11:50 < blindcoder> I mean, go to rocklinux.org, click on ROCK Linux 2.0 and download the -beta6 tarball
11:50 < owl> ah so
11:55 < owl> ok. bye now
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11:55 < jsaw> re
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13:59 < jsaw> ping rxr
14:09 < blindcoder> rxr is dead
14:12 < jsaw> no, he's fixing rc1, but obviously not listening here.
14:12 < jsaw> he just updated some files...
14:12 < jsaw> blindcoder: have a look at this www.matrixxp.com
14:13 < jsaw> blindcoder: can the hotfixes patch in nethack be removed?
14:14 < jsaw> (patch: **** malformed patch at line 44: @@ -139,11 +139,11 @@)
14:14 < jsaw> or is this a local problem again?
14:14 -!- daja77_|work [~daja77|wo@153.96.44.132] has joined #rocklinux
14:15 < daja77_|work> hi
14:15 < jsaw> hi daja77
14:15 -!- daja77_|work is now known as daja77|work
14:15 < daja77|work> I had my talk alread ;-)
14:15 < jsaw> and?
14:16 < daja77|work> that means praktikum is finished *yeah*
14:22 -!- javito [~javito@200.193.41.241] has joined #rocklinux
14:22 < javito> re
14:22 < javito> hi Mike1
14:22 < javito> sups
14:23 < daja77|work> hi javito
14:23 < javito> hi daja77|work
14:23 < javito> would it be possible to have a build system like..
14:23 < javito> e.g
14:23 < javito> (samba)---
14:24 < javito>       (ldap backend)
14:24 < javito>        (common)
14:24 < javito>         (bla bla bla)
14:24 < javito> for builing rock..
14:24 < javito> ??
14:25 < blindcoder> jsaw: well... no, it can not be removed...
14:25 < javito> or
14:25 < blindcoder> because without it, nethack didn't compile here at all
14:26 < daja77|work> *lol*
14:30 < jsaw> blindcoder: so nethack compiles as is for you?
14:31 < jsaw> btw, can that be:
14:31 < jsaw> [P] X -----5---9 218.000
14:32 < jsaw> and QT: [P] X -----5---9 474.000
14:32 < blindcoder> if you tell me what the first one is...
14:33 < jsaw> nethack
14:33 < blindcoder> hrm... strange...
14:33 < blindcoder> that's definately wrong...
14:33 < blindcoder> nethack should have around 800
14:33 < jsaw> huh
14:34 < blindcoder> 800.000
14:34 < blindcoder> will send a fix or it
14:34 < blindcoder> for it
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15:02 < rolla> re
15:03 < daja77|work> hi rolla
15:11 < rolla> grrr
15:12 < daja77|work> thx rolla really nice
15:14 < rolla> sorry
15:14 < rolla> my new system is messed up
15:15 < rolla> thing will not give a vid signal nor give a BIOS error
15:15 < daja77|work> so send it back
15:16 < rolla> ship it back?
15:16 < rolla> what a pain
15:16 < rolla> There tech support told me to try someting which I will try once I am home again
15:16 < daja77|work> maybe less pain then having a borken box at home
15:17 < rolla> ;)
15:17 < rolla> either way I am still pissed
15:18 < daja77|work> yeah yeah I know this feeling
15:19 * daja77|work hopes his new tft arrives soon
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15:30 < rolla> :)
15:42 < SMP> damn, my 1.3.7 CD doesn't mount
15:42 < daja77|work> rxr: PING
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16:26 < daja77|work> re
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16:44 < jsaw> cu l8r
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16:59 < daja77|work> Ge0rG: hi
17:00 * daja77|work off now
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17:12 < rolla_> anyone here know much about AGP?
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18:21 < rxr> re
18:22 < rxr> daja77: pong
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18:24 < n00kie> wb rxr
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18:31 < rxr> SMP: around ?
18:32 < Mike1> moin all
18:32 < Mike1> hi rxr
18:33 < rxr> hi Mike1
18:34 < Mike1> rxr let make a damn symlink for /bin/find ar /usr/bin/ and everyone happy.
18:34 < rxr> no - just a garbage symlink is not a clean solution
18:35 < rxr> either /bin or /usr/bin - but not gamblink symlink
18:35 < rxr> or a statically linked in /bin and the normal i /usr/bin
18:36 < Mike1> rxr: i would vote to keep it in /usr/bin ..
18:36 < Mike1> but so you are not liking the idea..
18:36 < rxr> I like the idea when too many people vote for this, too.
18:37 < Mike1> i could mention kai, tcr, me..
18:37 < Mike1> define too many people
18:38 < SMP> gah!
18:38 < Mike1> hi SMP
18:38 < Mike1> SMP: please express ur vote, should find be in /bin or /usr/bin
18:38 < Mike1> ?
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18:39 < SMP> do you when when find and xargs were moved to /bin ins ROCK? ;)
18:39 < rxr> SMP: ?
18:39 < Mike1> SMP: ?
18:39 < rxr> s/you when/you know/ ?
18:39 < SMP> aeh, yes of course
18:40 < Mike1> no clue. when?
18:40 < rxr> SMP: no - I guess years ago - I wanted to checkk my historic dRock releases this night ...
18:40 < rxr> Mike1: the orignial first mail was from Andreas Köhler fixing this ...
18:41 < rxr> fixing findutils to use /bin/find ...
18:41 < rxr> SMP: do you know the date? and for what do you vote ?
18:43 < rxr> SMP: ping ?
18:43 < Mike1> rxr: i'm not interested in taking credits for "fixing" it or not, all i want id it to be fixed
18:43 < SMP> well, it's not a matter of voting. the change was done on 01-01-2001 with the changelog 'Fixed: ..., findutils, ..."
18:43 < rxr> Mike1: who does this sentence came out of you ?
18:43 < rxr> SMP: ah
18:44 < SMP> but I can't remember the reason for it and I see no reason for xargs and find to be in /bin
18:44 < Mike1> rxr: as in you mentioned the first fix was from Andreas Köhler ..
18:44 < SMP> they should be in /usr/bin and I don't think this will break anything
18:44 < Mike1> SMP: so ur vote is?
18:44 < Mike1> thx SMP.
18:45 < Mike1> anyone else would like to express a vote? please.
18:46 < rxr> SMP: do you have some CVS or so going back such a long time ? Or did you just grepped the CHANGELOGS* ?
18:47 < SMP> searched the changelog and then validated that it was still /usr/bin/find in 1.3.10
18:49 < Mike1> smp so perhaps it was somewhere in 1.4
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18:50 < SMP> well the change was done before 1.3.11
18:51 < Mike1> mm.. ok
19:01 < Mike1> ok so how much votes do you need?
19:01 < Mike1> @ rxr
19:01 < cchamilt> Hi
19:02 < Mike1> cchamilt: just in time :)
19:02 < Mike1> cchamilt: please express ur vote, should find and xargs bin /bin or /usr/bin ?
19:02 < cchamilt> anyone see slashdot
19:03 < cchamilt> Why does it matter?
19:03 < cchamilt> Gentoo forked over more problems with management.
19:03 < Mike1> cchamilt: we are trying to decide if we keep it in /bin or not
19:03 < cchamilt> Yes and why does that matter?
19:04 < Mike1> mostly for standandars, and because updatedb searchs for it in /usr/bin
19:04 < Mike1> standards*
19:05 < cchamilt> Which package do we think is the broken one?
19:06 < SMP> neither
19:06 < cchamilt> What does bsd do?
19:06 < Mike1> bsd = /usr/bin ..
19:06 < SMP> xargs and find are being moved in findutils.conf artificially
19:07 < cchamilt> Why moved and which way?
19:07 * Mike1 wonders how much votes are required to convince rxr..
19:07 < esden> ok ... hi all
19:08 < Mike1> cchamilt: like this: mv -v $root/usr/bin/xargs $root/usr/bin/find $root/bin/
19:08 < Mike1> hi MPET
19:08 < SMP> cchamilt: reason is unknown due to sloppy changelog
19:08 < cchamilt> How long has it been this way?
19:08 < Mike1> cchamilt: somewehre between 1.3.10 and 1.3.11
19:09 < cchamilt> Hmm. Why did clifford do it?
19:09 < n00kie> ICQ Client to extra/multimedia?
19:09 < SMP> cchamilt: we don't know. neither will he remember probably
19:10 < Mike1> perhaps it was fixed something back then..
19:10 < cchamilt> Has anybody tried moving it to see if anything 'bad' happens.
19:10 < Mike1> -was
19:10 < Mike1> cchamilt: i have tested such feature and nothing brakes
19:10 < Mike1> plus updatedb works..
19:11 < cchamilt> Is clifford not askable?
19:11 < Mike1> i have not seen a mail from him in several days
19:12 < Mike1> still rxr should have enough authority in the tree to make a decition.
19:12 < cchamilt> Yes, but there are usually technical reasons.
19:12 < cchamilt> Maybe /etc/init.d/system (old) used them.
19:12 < cchamilt> It might not in current.
19:13 < Mike1> as i said before i had no problems with moving it to /usr/bin
19:13 < SMP> oh hmm
19:14 < SMP> leela:/usr/src/rock-src-1.3.11# ls -l pkg-config/findutils/findutils.conf
19:14 < SMP> -rw-r--r--   1 root     root           67 Oct 10  2000 pkg-config/findutils/findutils.conf
19:14 < cchamilt> I would assume they were used in the boot sequence back then
19:14 < cchamilt> brb
19:14 < SMP> *) 2000-10-10 (1.3.10 - 1.3.11)
19:14 < SMP>  - Added yet another set of /usr/(s)bin -> /(s)bin fixes
19:14 < n00kie> 10.10
19:14 < SMP> cchamilt: no, def. not
19:14 < n00kie> I have birthday on this date :)
19:15 < SMP> n00kie: so it's your fault!
19:15 < n00kie> hehe, right
19:15 < Mike1> n00kie: shame on you !
19:15 < Mike1> SMP: this mortals..
19:15 < Mike1> ;-)
19:17 < cchamilt> Yeah, I cant find use of it in 1.5 in boot.
19:17 < cchamilt> Most of that didn't change from 1.3
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19:27 < cchamilt> I would irresponsibly say change it.
19:27 < Mike1> so with you it makes 5 votes.
19:29 < cchamilt> Out of?
19:30 < Mike1> 6 votes total
19:30 < Mike1> 1 to keep it in /bin 5 to move it
19:30 < Mike1> guess who is voting to keep it.
19:31 < cchamilt> me? no wait that's not it...
19:31 < Mike1> i though you said you wanted to move it
19:31 < Mike1> rxr is the one who doesn't wanna move it
19:31 < cchamilt> it was a lame joke...
19:32 < Mike1> :P
19:35 -!- blindcoder [blindcoder@pD9E4FFCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("reboot tut gut")
19:40 < SMP> hehe, browsing the rock-linux@ list from 99/00 - it was damn quiet back then
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19:46 < esden> re blindcoder 
19:47 < esden> SMP: thate were silent times ... today you really need to take your time to read the mailnglist
20:18 -!- tsa [~tsa@pD9588874.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:19 < tsa> hi all
20:22 < rxr> re
20:23 < rxr> esden: hehe - yes - and it is good that we have more active now ;-)!
20:23 * rxr was away tring to buy new tea - but even in mid-Berlin it is not possible to obtain some at this time :-(
20:23 < rxr> tea shops closing around 18:30 ... ?!?
20:24 < esden> rxr: I have some earl gray here ... want some?
20:26 < rxr> jups - would be very nice if you could beam some over ;-)!
20:27 < esden> I ask scotty if it is possible ;-)
20:28 < esden> he says that he needs some more years till beaming works ... *grmpf*
20:30 < rxr> yeah - but when _he_ says years _he_ will archive this in weeks ;-)
20:30 < esden> hehe ... yes ... 
20:31 < tsa> rxr: any known issues with kdemultimedia31 ?
20:31 < tsa> i'm currently doing a build (with several packages disabled) and encountered an error..
20:31 < rxr> tsa: yes - the kernel header is buggy - it should be fixed for some, erhm, days?
20:31 < tsa> i see.
20:32 < rxr> is this a parse error in some byteorder.h or so ?
20:32 < tsa> yes-
20:32 < rxr> ah - that should be fixed
20:33 < tsa> ok, i'll try a new build, then.
20:33 < rxr> just rebuild linux24-header ...
20:35 < rolla> re
20:36 < cchamilt> shouldn't /usr/etc be a link to /etc?
20:39 < rolla> /usr/etc?
20:46 < Mike1> cchamilt: no.
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20:50 < rolla> Mike1: tonight the new server will be built
20:50 < Mike1> rolla: ah finally
20:52 < rolla> ja
20:52 < rolla> vid card is finally figured out
20:52 < Mike1> figured out?
20:53 < rolla> has having issues with no vid signal coming out and no post messages
20:53 < Mike1> ah
20:53 < rolla> :)
20:54 < rolla> also your iso failed to boot on the laptop I have :(
20:54 < rolla> guess it's chipset doesn't like the 2.4 kernel we use
20:55 < rolla> i will test it on the athlon
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21:06 < Mike1> rolla: very weird.
21:06 < Mike1> rolla: anyways i am creating a new install disk for both minimal and router, using the oficial beta6 release src tree.
21:07 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p5080272B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:07 < rxr> Mike1: if this is about what rolla asked yesterday this is a generic kernel bug - not related to ROCK Linux - and will not simply go away :-(
21:09 < Mike1> rxr: i know.
21:10 < Mike1> rxr: so the iso i will make public will _not_ contain linux25* and neither module-init-tools <-- no sence to have then if no linux25.
21:10 < rxr> rolla: what iso is this - minimal or generic ?
21:10 < Mike1> rxr: when linux25 works, i will include it on my isos, ok?
21:10 < netrunner> hmm ... my build pc froze again ... something seems to be wrong here.
21:10 < rxr> no
21:10 < Mike1> rxr: he was testing one of my isos
21:10 < rxr> module-init-tools should be included in any case.
21:11 < Mike1> rxr: why?
21:11 < rxr> because the user might want to build and boot a new 2.5 kernel him/her-self
21:11 < Mike1> ok.
21:13 < Mike1> rxr: when will you post an iso for oficial beta6 release?
21:14 < rxr> I have both beta5 and beta6 here
21:14 < netrunner> rxr: you probably did not mean ./scripts/Download -cfg gamer -newdelete did you? must be some other script, this one only bails the help
21:14 < rxr> but for now only beta5 is barely test - beta6 not at all ...
21:14 < rxr> so in the next days ...
21:14 < netrunner> rxr: never mind, found CreateErrList -newdelete
21:15 < rxr> netrunner: err - yes
21:15 < rolla> rxr it was minimal and desktop
21:15 < rolla> I have tried both
21:15 < Mike1> rxr: if you want i can test ur beta6 ..
21:17 < rxr> Mike1: ok - I'll upload -beta5 - I tell you in some hours when it is ready
21:18 * rxr away jogging - cu
21:19 < Mike1> rxr: have fun, fgreetings to Verena
21:19 -!- dreamind [~dreamind@x4.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit (":x")
21:26 -!- Freak [~freak@p508B202E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client exciting")
21:41 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable87a195.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
21:52 -!- dreamind [dreamind@IP-213157026041.dialin.heagmedianet.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:52 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p5080272B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ("*hicks*")
21:54 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p5080272B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:54 * netrunner testing bitchx - I see colors :)
21:58 < rxr> re
21:58 < Mike1> welcome back
21:58 < Mike1> how was jogging?
21:59 < rxr> hehe ;-) Verena says: exhausting - but refreshing
21:59 < rxr> many greetings from here ,)
22:00 < esden> netrunner: irssi is better
22:00 < Mike1> Verena hehe, hope you can join us cycling over here ;-)
22:01 < netrunner> esden: searching ...
22:02 < Mike1> running to search the net?
22:02 < Mike1> :)
22:04 < netrunner> Mike1: I need to run to generate power. never seen mice powering a lightbulb with their wheel?
22:05 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@volans.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de] has joined #rocklinux
22:05 < jsaw> re
22:05 < Mike1> hehe
22:05 < Mike1> welcome back jsaw
22:05 < jsaw> hi all, hi Mike1
22:06 < rxr> hi jsaw
22:07 < jsaw> hi rxr
22:07 < esden> netrunner: http://www.irssi.org/
22:07 < esden> hi jsaw 
22:08 < jsaw> there's a strange shared file problem with rep-gtk: usr/libexec/rep/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gui/gtk-2/gtk.la: rep-gtk01 rep-gtk10
22:08 < jsaw> usr/libexec/rep/i686-pc-linux-gnu/gui/gtk-2/gtk.so: rep-gtk01 rep-gtk10
22:08 < jsaw> hi esden
22:08 < jsaw> (svn HEAD, btw)
22:09 < rxr> jsaw: I would need to take a look later ...
22:10 < Mike1> ip route 196.40.44.54 255.255.255.255 Null0
22:10 < Mike1> uurgs sorry :)
22:11 < jsaw> just telling you, 'cause I don't have time tonight to fix it myself
22:11 < rxr> jsaw: ok
22:12 < rxr> jsaw: what bug-tracking system would you favour ?
22:15 < jsaw> well, I have bugzilla running here for one software guy here at the institute. Though bloated, it took me less than half an hour to setup.
22:15 < jsaw> on the other hand,
22:19 < jsaw> sorry, I'll be back in a second...
22:24 < rolla> yawn
22:34 < daja77> re
22:35 < daja77> my tft is here, nice thing
22:36 < daja77> hi Mike1
22:36 < rolla> re daja77
22:37 < Mike1> hi daja77
22:37 * daja77 only doin short visit here
22:38 < Mike1> daja77: why?
22:39 < daja77> cos I had too less sleep in the last 2 days
22:39 < Mike1> so?
22:39 < Mike1> sleep is for mortals anyways :)
22:40 < daja77> I am almost dying :)
22:40 * Mike1 gives daja77 some jolt
22:40 < daja77> but I could tellem about code manipulation with suif
22:40 < daja77> thx doesn't help ...
22:46 < jsaw> rxr: sorry, my boss wanted to talk to me. [] On the other hand I like the idea of having a command line tool to send a problem report. lynx is good, but with bugzilla not very handy....
22:46 < jsaw> So, as I said, from what I read about gnats, I'd prefer gnats.
22:46 * daja77 agrees with jsaw
22:46 < jsaw> Wouldn't it be possible to open both for testing?
22:51 -!- JTBurn [~jtburn@pD9E7F4B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:58 < netrunner> can somebody give me advice how to print cyrillic characters? my printer just leaves them out. I also cannot view them with gv.
22:59 -!- kasc [~kasc@p5090A3EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:00 < dreamind> Hi
23:01 < Mike1> hi dreamind
23:01 < dreamind> Hi Mike1 :)
23:05 * daja77 off to bed now
23:06 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has quit ("Lost terminal")
23:07 < netrunner> n8 daja77
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23:18 < rxr> jsaw: I would not like to configure too much - and having inconsistent reports in boths
23:18 < rxr> so I think I now have three votes for gnats I'll test it ...
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23:22 < rxr> should I just setup gnat and announce to test it - or should we start yet another discussion on rock-linux ?
23:26 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has quit (Client Quit)
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23:30 < jsaw> rxr: the real problems usually appear during use... (/me thinks, setup and announce is a GoodThing [tm])
23:37 < jsaw> netrunner: (cyrillic) what kind of document is it? postscript?
23:39 -!- JTBurn [~jtburn@pD9E7F4B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 2418")
23:41 < rxr> jsaw: ok
23:41 < jsaw> rxr: I caused a packaging error with rockplug :-(
23:41 < jsaw> Makefiles missing.
23:43 < jsaw> rxr: please do "svn up" and "make dist"
23:45 < rxr> jsaw: later, ok? should this be a next release - or should I silently replace the tarball ?
23:48 < jsaw> rxr: I just updated the tiny version 3. desc patch following on ML.
--- Log closed Fri Jun 27 00:00:31 2003