--- Log opened Wed Aug 27 00:00:01 2003
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00:03 < martin> Hello
00:10 < rxr> hi martin 
00:11 < rxr> you still wait for the disks :-( ?
00:13 < martin> hi rxr
00:14 < martin> rxr: yes ;-)
00:14 < martin> But i will also go sleep in some minutes
00:17 < rxr> http://gsmp.tfh-berlin.de/ftp/rock/
00:17 < rxr> floppy 1-5 ...
00:17 < rxr> but still not tested (lack of time)
00:19 < rxr> omg - huebi goes crazzy ...
00:22 < martin> 5 disks? wow, where i become 5 workinks disks? *search*
00:22 < rxr> ;-)
00:30 < SMP> re
00:30 < rxr> hi SMP 
00:31 < rxr> I need a new password hash from you - sha1 does not work (I have not yet "debugged" this) - normal crypt and md5 doo work 
00:31 < rxr> but since you are teh apache guru I think you can comment on this or just send a crypt or md5 hash ;-)
00:33 < SMP> interesting
01:14 < jsaw> re
01:20 < jsaw> ... bbl
01:24 < rxr> hi jsaw 
01:24 < snyke> esden: ?
01:25 < snyke> hm
01:52 < jsaw> re
01:53 < jsaw> hi all
01:53 < jsaw> hi rxr
01:53 < rxr> hi jsaw 
01:55 < mnemoc> re
01:58 < mnemoc> how can i re-number or move windows in screen?
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02:25 < rxr> cu - n8 all
02:25 < jsaw> gn8 rxr
02:26 < martin> gn8 all
02:26 < jsaw> gn8 martin
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02:59 < rammi> hi rockers :)
03:05 < mnemoc> hi
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07:22 < holyolli> moin
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09:27 < [anders]> moin
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09:41 < _NULL_> moin
09:43 < starlord> hi _NULL_
09:48 < [anders]> lo owl
09:48 < _NULL_> hi [anders] 
09:48 < [anders]> owl: how's you then? 
09:50 < _NULL_> [anders]: alive. thx. you?
09:50 < _NULL_> someone knows a site where i can download polyphonic ringtones for ericsson t610 ?
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10:31 < daja77> moin
10:35 < uppo> hi
10:36 < uppo> I am installing the new drock-2.0.0-rc1
10:36 < uppo> Apparently something is missing in my gnome installation
10:36 < uppo> gnome do not find any font
10:37 < uppo> with icewm everithing seems good
10:38 < uppo> in gnome every caracter is replaced with a small dot
10:38 < [anders]> owl: I'm doing alright thanks. Just moved house and am still finishing things off..
10:39 < daja77> uppo: haven't tested rc1 yet, so can't tell
10:40 * daja77 now off
10:40 < daja77> cu later
10:40 < uppo> cu
10:44 < _NULL_> http://aleron.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/multisync/multisync-0.80-1.tar.gz
10:44 < _NULL_> aaaaargh... sorry
10:45 < netrunner> moin
10:47 < _NULL_> hi netrunner 
10:53 < esden> wooooooow huebi is back to the living?
10:53 < esden> hi all sbtw
10:53 < _NULL_> hi esden 
10:54 < netrunner> esden: happy ds2 learning here, wanna join? *g*
10:55 < esden> netrunner: no thanks ... I can not in the moment
10:55 < esden> rofl ... /me is dying from reading the RLML
10:56 < esden> ahh _NULL_ good that you are here ... could you please verify your complains the next time you flame the mailinglist?
10:57 < esden> I would be very happy if you could fix the centericq problem ... I would very appreciate it 
10:58 < _NULL_> esden: nope. i can't. but you can overtake the packages of my repository... because i won't "kruemmen einen finger" for rock anymore
10:58 < esden> _NULL_: centericq is not in your repository ... OFYI
10:59 < _NULL_> esden: i know. but i won't maintain the packages of my repos, too, now - so, please overtake it or someone else
11:03 < esden> I do not want your packets ... but you can ask rxr to move them to orphaned
11:03 < esden> but still ... if you in the future complain about something make sure you know what you are saying ... the mails you wrote on the list really rescued my day because they were so funny ;)
11:04 < _NULL_> why funny?
11:04 < _NULL_> btw, it seems to be a problem with "term"
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11:11 < netrunner> esden: /me just came into the kitchen and was bombed with questions to ds2 ;) now I managed to run away :)
11:12 * netrunner just found centericq updated
11:14 < esden> yes I also have read that ...
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11:16 < _NULL_> rehi
11:16 < netrunner> hi 0
11:16 < esden> re 0
11:17 < esden> _NULL_: sure it is a problem with the terminal ... centericq is too stupid to manage it in a correct way ;)
11:17 * netrunner starts a new build
11:17 < netrunner> what is the problem with centericq? it works quite fine here ...
11:18 < _NULL_> esden: aha... and on aszlig.net and on my LFS-system i once had, there was only luck, that it ran, or what?
11:18 < esden> ack
11:18 < esden> it is working with some terminals with others not
11:18 < esden> it depends
11:18 < _NULL_> O_o on _what_?
11:18 < esden> with aterm it is not working
11:18 < esden> on eterm it is working flowlessly
11:19 < esden> on xterm it fsck's again ...
11:19 * netrunner uses xterm
11:19 < esden> netrunner: but you do not use centericq?
11:19 < netrunner> esden: sometimes, in a screen over ssh ... 
11:19 < _NULL_> esden: and with ssh --> screen?
11:20 < esden> netrunner: and it works without problems?
11:21 < netrunner> esden: yes ... only thing is when you reconnect to the server with a resized terminal screen sometimes doesn't see that and does not tell the applications inside, so they mess up ... but you can force a refresh with C-a l 
11:21 * netrunner loading gui mailclient to view the screen screenshot
11:22 < netrunner> oh ... never seen problems like that.
11:22 < esden> netrunner: hmm ... that is strange ... because I have the problems in xterm on my laptop ...
11:22 < netrunner> maybe putty related?
11:23 < esden> I will have to dig deeper in it in the future 
11:23 < esden> ok I am once more off for shopping ;)
11:23 < esden> cu l8er
11:23 < netrunner> esden: maybe it is because while I built centericq using the rock tools it runs in a rh system ...
11:23 < _NULL_> bye esden 
11:23 < netrunner> c'ya esden
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11:34 < _NULL_> hi fake  O_o
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11:37 < fake> _NULL_: hi
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11:52 < netrunner> argl. 1-linux24 fails :(
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13:06 < esden> re hi all
13:06 < rxr> re
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13:29 < snyke> hi esden
13:29 < snyke> esden: ping
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13:46 < _NULL_> rehi
13:57 < esden> snyke: ???
13:57 < esden> re 0
14:06 < _NULL_> esden: does './scripts/Emerge-Pkg irda-utils' create a 'irdadump' tool?
14:06 * -> esden not using irda ...
14:07 < _NULL_> could you please try to build it ...?
14:07 * Ge0rG had problems building irdadump when he tried it from source on rock
14:07 < _NULL_> ack. here too...
14:08 < _NULL_> Ge0rG: make[3]: Entering directory `/home/owl/irda-utils-0.9.16/irdadump/src'
14:08 < _NULL_> Makefile:169: *** missing separator.  Stop.
14:08 < _NULL_> this error?
14:08 < Ge0rG> _NULL_: I think yes
14:10 < _NULL_> dammit... this happens with irda-utils 0.9.15 and 0.9.16 ... *jumping out of window* also when trying to build it by hand
14:18 < _NULL_> holy shit...!!!
14:18 < _NULL_> Ge0rG: patch -Np0 -i patches/irdadump.patch.....................
14:18 < Ge0rG> _NULL_: thx
14:19 < _NULL_> at least it builds here, now... 
14:20 < _NULL_> urgs... modprobe ircomm should create entries in /dev/ (ircomm0) or not?
14:20 < Ge0rG> _NULL_: nope, you need ircomm-tty
14:21 < _NULL_> thx... and then irattach ???
14:21 < Ge0rG> depends on the dongle you use
14:22 < _NULL_> hm... i'm using a ericsson t610 mobile
14:23 < Ge0rG> what hardware module do you use for the irda port? irtty, irport or some fast irda driver?
14:25 < _NULL_> irtty...
14:25 < _NULL_> at least i think so
14:26 < Ge0rG> then you need irattach
14:27 < _NULL_> ok... but attaching to what?
14:27 < _NULL_> *confused*
14:27 < Ge0rG> /dev/tts/1 I suppose
14:28 < _NULL_> .oO(linuxdoc.org-irda-docu = old)
14:29 < _NULL_> 'irattach /dev/ttyS1' but still no mobilephone detected...
14:31 < Ge0rG> _NULL_: have you enabled discovery?
14:31 < Ge0rG> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/irda/discovery
14:32 < _NULL_> yes...i have...
14:32 < _NULL_> second... i will reboot with a new kernel again...
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14:36 < _NULL_> re
14:36 < rolla> re
14:38 < _NULL_> Ge0rG: still here?
14:39 < Ge0rG> _NULL_: sur
14:39 < Ge0rG> +e
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15:39 < jsaw_> re
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15:41 < holyolli> moin
15:41 < rolla> re
15:43 < rxr> hi jsaw 
15:43 < rxr> hi all
15:43 < holyolli> hi rxr
15:44 < jsaw> hi all
15:45 < holyolli> hi jsaw
15:46 < jsaw> helolyolli
15:46 < holyolli> *g*
15:47 < daja77> re
15:47 < holyolli> a very good friend is doing the _same_ joke all the time, but in German...didn't realize that this wordgame is also possible in english =)
15:47 < holyolli> hi daja77
15:48 < jsaw> hehe
15:48 < Ge0rG> hi daja :)
15:48 < daja77> holyolli: i know it ;-)
15:48 < daja77> hey Ge0rG 
15:48 * daja77 now talking from granny's pc ...
15:50 * daja77 checking out rc1 src to do updates
15:56 < netrunner> re
15:57 < daja77> huhu netrunner 
15:58 < netrunner> hi daja77 :)
15:58 < netrunner> anyone also experienced linux24 not building because of tvmixer.o?
15:59 * daja77 still doin rc1 stuff, not tested new things
16:00 < netrunner> i did a svn up before starting that build ... and apparently linux-2.4.22 does not build (and I did not manage to put the correct entry into disable-broken.lst)
16:01 < daja77> it sucks that we need that list ...
16:02 < rxr> daja77: we could lust perform this - but I think it is saver to take final human look before to wipe them out ...
16:03 < daja77> sorry, didn't got your statement
16:04 < netrunner> rxr: to disable tvmixer I put the line "CONFIG_TVMIXER          2003-08-27      2.4.22 tvmixer.o" into disable-broken.lst?
16:05 < jsaw> I need tvmixer for my bttv card...
16:05 < netrunner> jsaw: I would, too. but I would also like to have the package linux24 built :)
16:07 < daja77> can't you fix it?
16:07 < jsaw> lemma try, but, IIRC, bttv and new i2c don't like each other, even if I change the offending lines...
16:08 < daja77> hmm another 2.4 crap release ...
16:08 < daja77> this series is doomed
16:09 < holyolli> daja77: is doomed == ist hoellisch?
16:09 < daja77> verdammt
16:09 < holyolli> ah...danke
16:10 < daja77> granny told me that she looked up core in dictionary cos she had that files in homedir
16:12 < netrunner> daja77: your granny's using linux? how did you manage that?
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16:12 < daja77> black magic
16:12 < daja77> :)
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16:13 < daja77> not only linux, rocklinux
16:13 < mnemoc> fixed:    new i2c merge broke matroxfb, tvmixer, bttv and DXR3
16:13 < mnemoc> WOLF 4.7s->4.8s
16:13 < Ge0rG> daja77: how many enwborns did you have to sacrifice? ;)
16:13 < Ge0rG> *newborns
16:13 < daja77> ahem .... none
16:13 < holyolli> bbl
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16:14 < daja77> well i used an old siemens pc for that, there no win drivers for the isdn card anyway
16:15 < jsaw> mnemoc: you have a patch for linux24 ready?
16:16 < mnemoc> nope... i just said WOLF ppl seem to have solved it ;)
16:16 < mnemoc> i use to wait for fixed:    new i2c merge broke matroxfb, tvmixer, bttv and DXR3
16:16 < mnemoc> shit
16:17 < jsaw> grummel
16:17 < mnemoc> i use to wait for Herbert Ptzl's patch
16:17 < mnemoc> (damn paste)
16:18 < daja77> hmm that herbert we met in vienna?
16:18 < mnemoc> yep :)
16:18 < daja77> cool
16:19 < netrunner> we should ask clifford to kick him for the patch :)
16:19 < daja77> hehe write it to the list ...
16:22 < mnemoc> http://www.13thfloor.at/VServer/Patches.shtml <--- his last patchset is for 2.4.22-pre10 :(
16:23 < mnemoc> may be we can 'steal' the fix from WOLF for i2c-rxr4 :)
16:37 < daja77> *yaaaawn*
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17:03 * daja77 now "emerging" cups
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17:10 < christian_> hi :)
17:12 < daja77> ho
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17:16 < daja77> O_o new provider
17:16 < rxr> re
17:17 * daja77 having fun on rev 368 computer
17:17 < owl_> new proavoder? wher?
17:17 < owl_> you mean here=
17:17 < daja77> yes you
17:18 < owl_> ah so... yes... connecting from work... new provider there too... --> can't connect to aszlig.net anymore from work... *grml*
17:18 < daja77> no ssh?
17:18 < owl_> daja77: yes...
17:19 * daja77 notes that he don't wanna work there ...
17:19 < owl_> haha. i don't wanna work here, too
17:21 < owl_> fsck... i'm hating irda!
17:21 < rxr> you could provide a better i2c patch insteaf of moaring about it ...
17:21 < rxr> doesn't a plain ROCK build build for you ?
17:22 < daja77> hmm maybe i should have emerged with deps ...
17:26 * daja77 notes that he needs 48h days to do more work on rock
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17:28 < jsaw> rxr: your unsubscribe was simply a typo: should be minimalist@... instead of rock-linux@...
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17:29 < owl_> re
17:36 < daja77> d'oh compiling on this machine is no fun
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17:48 < rxr> jsaw: this was not initiated by me!
17:50 < jsaw> rxr: all my patches sent are wrong... I'll correct that now.
17:50 * jsaw very sorry for the spam
17:51 < jsaw> rxr: ?
17:51 < rxr> jsaw: no problem - I can correct them on the fly ...
17:51 < rxr> jsaw: yes ?
17:51 < jsaw> really? or should I resend them?
17:51 < rxr> nope - I correct them ;-)
17:51 < jsaw> <rxr> jsaw: this was not initiated by me! <-- what do you mean with this?
17:52 < rxr> this was the resonse for:
17:52 < rxr> 17:28 < jsaw> rxr: your unsubscribe was simply a typo: should be minimalist@...
17:52 < rxr>               instead of rock-linux@...
17:52 < rxr> only windows admins can be that stupid ...
17:55 < daja77> hehe
17:55 < daja77> brb
17:55 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has quit ("Real Life is just an illusion caused by IRC deprivation")
17:58 < jsaw> rxr: ...
18:00 -!- cytrinox_ [~cytrinox@p213.54.132.174.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux
18:03 -!- alanw [~Alan@d429b574.adsl.legend.co.uk] has left #rocklinux ("Leaving")
18:03 -!- Nebukadnezea [~daddel9@dsl-213-023-057-189.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
18:05 -!- Nebukadneza [~cytrinox@dsl-213-023-057-189.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:13 * daja77 kicks cups
18:16 -!- cytrinox [~cytrinox@p213.54.169.3.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:20 < daja77> errhm dep checking seems not be sane ...
18:21 < rxr> jsaw: have you now resent all ?
18:21 < daja77> well anyway
18:22 < rxr> this is why I did not wanted resents - now I have chaos in my inbox ...
18:24 < rxr> hm
18:24 < rxr> +[ "$ROCKCFG_DEFAULT_CC" == "gcc33" ] \
18:24 < rxr> +&& var_append CC_WRAPPER_APPEND  " " "-fno-strict-aliasing"
18:24 < rxr> this should be fixed saner - so that we do not have config bloat in the .conf files - and the packages always builds correct ...
18:24 < rxr> e.g. think we rename gcc33 to gcc3 in some weeks ...
18:27 < jsaw> rxr: I was to fast, before u said, don't send 'em.
18:27 < rxr> jsaw: ok - but have you send all?
18:27 < jsaw> rxr: 2nd, so how to fix it? 
18:27 < rxr> does always appending -fno-strict-aliasing does work correct ?
18:28 < jsaw> rxr: no just isdn4k-utils, ifhp
18:28 < rxr> yes - I meant only for this packages ;-)
18:29 < rxr> I would like this more then this conditional that will break in some weeks ...
18:29 < jsaw> rxr: I have no other build around currently, so I can't check for gcc2 and gcc3
18:29 < jsaw> so I'll check, if I can do it anotherway... discard patch for now.
18:32 * jsaw is now "child carer"
18:32 < jsaw> bbl
18:36 < rxr> jsaw: I apply it to append it always we'll see how it behaves ...
18:37 < jsaw> k, cu l8r, off now
18:42 < rxr> cu jsaw 
18:46 -!- stable-ish [~jt@pcp03808688pcs.indstr01.fl.comcast.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:46 < stable-ish> greetings
18:49 < rxr> hi
19:08 < daja77> oh chksum-err
19:08 < Nebukadneza> anyone here who knows dar?
19:08 < daja77> pdf_sec.ps from ghostscript package
19:28 < rxr> cu later
19:29 -!- Federico2 [~Federico2@62-101-126-208.fastres.net] has joined #rocklinux
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19:31 -!- cytrinox_ is now known as cytrinox
19:31 -!- stable-ish [~jt@pcp03808688pcs.indstr01.fl.comcast.net] has quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
19:36 -!- _Caspar_ [~steven261@M089P015.dipool.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
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19:48 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M261P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
20:02 -!- Nebukadneza [~cytrinox@dsl-213-023-057-189.arcor-ip.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
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20:10 < christian_> darr or dar - Nebukadneza
20:10 < Nebukadneza> dar
20:10 < christian_> ne
20:10 < christian_> sorry
20:10 < Nebukadneza> but my debian runns!! jipii! dar ruleZ :)
20:10 * daja77 knows dasr
20:10 < daja77> boooh
20:11 < christian_> debian? what the hell is that? :)
20:12 < daja77> erh, hell, as you stated
20:15 < christian_> well daja this was only a little joke...
20:16 < daja77> so what?
20:16 < daja77> :)
20:16 < christian_> next time i will mark my jokes for you with a big "DANGER DAJA - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS A JOKE" hint
20:16 < daja77> why
20:17 < christian_> that you know when I make jokes so you can make a big lol :) 
20:17 < daja77> i just continued, maybe you haven't noticed
20:18 * daja77 just realized what a bad idea Emerge-Pkg is ...
20:18 < christian_> ahja
20:18 < christian_> ahhh "erh, hell, as you stated" what related to "but my debian runns!! jipii! dar ruleZ :)" - am i right?
20:19 < daja77> it reminds me that i'll never like gentoo
20:19 < daja77> no you are not
20:19 < christian_> ehmm okay daja - lets forget it :)
20:19 < daja77> good idea
20:26 < christian_> daja you use kde for "working" at home - aight?
20:27 < daja77> yes
20:28 < christian_> :) 
20:30 < daja77> why?
20:31 < christian_> it's only interesting for me to know which "tools" experts use :) 
20:31 < daja77> oh my ...
20:31 < daja77> well guess i'll switch back soon
20:32 < christian_> to?
20:32 < christian_> gnome?
20:32 < daja77> blackbox or derivate
20:32 < christian_> why?
20:32 < daja77> but too lazy atm
20:33 < daja77> it is faster and doesn't have all that annoying desktop stuff
20:33 < christian_> hmmm okay...
20:33 < daja77> but haven't decided yet
20:33 * daja77 busy with more important stuff
20:33 < christian_> on what are you working at the moment?
20:34 < daja77> hmm studienarbeit, rtrock, setting up svn at work, contributing to rock ...
20:36 < christian_> rtrock? another target?
20:36 < daja77> no target anymore ;-)
20:37 < christian_> what else?
20:37 < daja77> rock generic - lots of packages, + rt patched kernel + rtai package
20:38 < christian_> patched kernel... interesting :) 
20:38 < daja77> yepp realtime patch
20:39 < christian_> ahja ahja... i will never learn this :/
20:40 < daja77> not that big deal, cheating the rtai package was more annoying ;-)
20:41 < christian_> i will take a little shower now :) you will stay here for lets say about 30 minutes daja?
20:41 < daja77> i fear i will be there yes
20:41 < christian_> brbr
20:46 < christian_> re
20:46 < christian_> :) 
20:46 < christian_> only a little shower :) 
20:50 < rxr> 1
20:50 < rxr> oops - sorr
20:50 < rxr> y
20:50 < christian_> :) 
20:50 < christian_> shame on you rxr :) 
20:50 < rxr> yeah - I /me hide for the next hours ...
20:50 < daja77> why, he accidently showed that he is here ;)
20:51 < daja77> rxr: hide or sleep?
20:51 < christian_> rxr: just sitting in front of your conputer screen and reads the #rock channel :) 
20:51 < rxr> daja77: nothing - this was a joke for the accidently return press ...
20:52 < rxr> I was here the wohle day - I never said I'm away ... ?!?
20:52 < daja77> rxr: guess it will be a long night for me too, granny's box is so painfully slow
20:52 < daja77> i was just kidding
20:53 < daja77> ghostscript now compiles more than 1,5 h ...
20:53 < rxr> oh ..
20:53 * rxr is shortly away to consume lunch ...
20:53 < daja77> enjoy!
20:54 < daja77> and this just for getting a printer working *argl*
21:06 < christian_> i go sleeping
21:08 < daja77> n8 christian_ 
21:09 * daja77 bein watched by cat
21:15 -!- christian_ [~christian@pD9E39A93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
21:25 < jsaw> re
21:27 < daja77> wb jsaw 
21:30 < rxr> re
21:30 < rxr> hi jsaw 
21:34 < jsaw> hi guys
21:34 < n00kie> Sleep well christian :)
21:34 < n00kie> Hello rxr, jsaw
21:34 < daja77> hehehe
21:35 -!- netrunne1 [~netrunner@p5080210B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:40 -!- netrunne1 [~netrunner@p5080210B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ("leaving")
21:41 -!- netrunne2 [~netrunner@p5080210B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:41 * netrunne2 back from skating (and fighting with irssi)
21:42 < daja77> anybody hiding behind the desk, netrunner is back ...
21:42 -!- netrunner [~netrunner@p508028B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:43 * rxr back
21:53 < cytrinox> re
21:54 < daja77> hi cytrinox 
21:54 < daja77> this ghostscript gives me the creeps
21:54 -!- netrunne2 is now known as netrunner
21:55 * netrunner now watching the last dance (until gf is asleep *eg*)
21:55 * daja77 bought a tron dvd today
21:59 < rxr> anyone here ?
21:59 * daja77 raises hand
21:59 < rxr> shoudl a happy users site be in "Community" of in "PR" on the homepage ?
22:00 * rxr votes for Community (although it was in PR in the past=
22:00 < daja77> both?
22:00 < rxr> urgs - no
22:00 < rxr> oh - svn 0.28.0 released
22:00 < daja77> hmm Community, then
22:00 < daja77> d'oh
22:00 < rxr> (but we will not update until 0.30) due to the database schema change
22:00 < rxr> )
22:00 < jsaw> no, let's see how much different svn 0.28 is...
22:01 < jsaw> s/no/now/
22:01 < daja77> great
22:01 < daja77> is there a painless way to migrate?
22:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB1FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:02 < rxr>  Linux 2.4.23-pre1
22:02 < rxr> daja77: yes - sort of
22:02 < daja77> dump and replay?
22:02 < rxr> but I will not migrate all the databaaes until I know the new stuff is rocking stable ...
22:02 < jsaw> ahh, too many updates, too much work
22:02 < rxr> daja77: yes
22:02 < daja77> hehe
22:03 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M261P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:04 < rxr> oh- the WARNING in the svn release mail is huge ...
22:04 < daja77> O_o
22:04 < rxr> ##  This release makes an incompatible change to the Subversion    ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  repository filesystem schema.  Repositories created with       ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  Subversion code prior to this release will unable to operate   ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  with this new code.  To maintain the ability to use said       ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  repositories, you must use a version 'svnadmin dump' prior to  ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  this change to dump your repository to a dumpfile, then use    ##
22:04 < rxr> ##  this new Subversion code to create, and load your dumpfile     ##
22:05 < rxr> ##  a new repository using 'svnadmin load'.
22:05 < rxr> and this is only a part ...
22:05 < daja77> nice
22:05 < daja77> where is my lart
22:06 < rxr> hehe:
22:06 < rxr>  Developer-visible changes:
22:06 < rxr>  * database schema changed (see warning above!)
22:07 * daja77 still waiting for tcr nitpicking
22:09 < daja77> *argl* still can't leave
22:09 < rxr> my Auto-Commit improved a lot today ...
22:10 < daja77> :)
22:11 < jsaw> rxr: my "Maintain" script improved also a lot today...
22:11 < jsaw> hehe
22:11 * daja77 could not code today, just setting up this fscking printer
22:12 < jsaw> daja77: I never had such few problems since using cups
22:12 < rxr> yes - but cups has somgs odd bugs - and so a flyspray entry
22:12 < daja77> well the problem isn't cups but that ghostscript takes ages to compile on that box 
22:13 < rxr> I really take a day to improve it ...
22:13 < rxr> daja77: ssh ; compile ; exit ; scp ...
22:13 < daja77> it shows its java api doc on localhost:631
22:13 < daja77> rxr: i didn't know that before
22:14 < daja77> cups was ready after 1/2 h 
22:15 * daja77 really looking forward for the rocket tool
22:16 < daja77> but hey now i know the gentoo hell ;-)
22:19 < daja77> btw a Build-Pkg that just creates a gem would be cool
22:22 < tcr> moin all
22:22 < daja77> moin tcr 
22:23 < tcr> daja77: What should I add to that? That's just one of the deficiencies when using a database :)
22:24 < daja77> well better nothing i guess *ggg*
22:25 < tcr> :P, there's nothing to add, you're right
22:26 < daja77> there are worse things in life than this
22:27 < tcr> For software, not really
22:28 < daja77> keeping old structures over decades can suck more, ask ibm
22:28 < tcr> Yeah, or intel ;)
22:29 < daja77> hehe
22:29 < tcr> backward comptability just for the sake of proprietary software _really_ sucks
22:29 < tcr> Wouldn't it be damn nice and cute in a FS only world?
22:30 < daja77> you see ;-)
22:31 < tcr> But backward incompatibility because of weak design is another thing ;)
22:31 < tcr> Btw. I just noticed a very small bug in the build scripts
22:31 * tcr seems to be quite peaky about those; he finds those quite often (mayb because he does rather odd things ;))
22:32 < daja77> cos you are doomed
22:32 < tcr> No, just stupid ;)
22:32 < daja77> *sigh* ah only that ;-)
22:33 < tcr> deselected glib and gtk, so a lot packages have to fail  ;)
22:33 < daja77> rotfl
22:33 < daja77> purist!
22:34 < daja77> wtf i read glibc above
22:34 < tcr> Hehe :P
22:38 < cchamilt> hello
22:39 < cchamilt> anyone got a good cpan->rock interface idea?
22:39 < cchamilt> Otherwise I may just roll some script myself if I can do it.
22:41 < cchamilt> ah everyone is asleep?
22:41 -!- owl [~owl@aszlig.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:41 < jsaw> not really
22:41 * daja77 awake
22:41 < owl> moin
22:41 < tcr> (as a total perl novice:) Ain't there some automatic-installation tools available anyway?
22:41 < jsaw> hello owl
22:41 < owl> someone here with irda-experience?
22:42 < cchamilt> tcr: yep, cpan - but we need to make gems of the packages.
22:42 < jsaw> tcr: the point is integration cpan into rock
22:42 < tcr> jsaw: Well, that's very generic ;). But now I'm clear
22:43 < jsaw> cchamilt: look what rxr/I did with python. Maybe that's a way to start? (package/base/python/python-pkg.conf)
22:43 < cchamilt> I am thinking right now just a script that reads the .cpan version of a package and makes an update package/$rep/perl-$pkg
22:43 < cchamilt> Does it keep versions up to date?
22:43 * daja77 frightened by the idea of thousands a perl gems
22:43 < cchamilt> rock already does perl Makefile.PL
22:43 < daja77> s/a/of
22:44 < cchamilt> Yeah, it is needed for a working spamassassin.
22:44 < jsaw> ah, ok. I c what u mean
22:44 < cchamilt> cpan already does version selection
22:44 < cchamilt> so if I just make a script that will generate updates from it, then I can be lazy and make tons of perl packages
22:45 * daja77 votes that spammers should have their trial in .sg
22:45 < tcr> That definitively needs some thinking. 
22:45 < tcr> Later, I'm now hunting a small bug
22:45 < cchamilt> OK, well I will poke along seeing if the idea is possible
22:46 < daja77> what about a cpan package?
22:46 < cchamilt> One thing rock needs that .spec has - $ver in the download url
22:46 < jsaw> cchamilt: maybe an extra tag to [V], eg. "[V] current"? for those pacakges acquiring the version like cpan?
22:46 < cchamilt> I will need a cpan package, but cpan comes with perl5 already
22:47 < cchamilt> jsaw: yes, that would be sweet if we could figure it out.
22:47 < daja77> i thought something like a container package
22:48 < daja77> where you can selecting in Config which modules you wanna have
22:48 < daja77> oh no forget it, too much
22:48 < cchamilt> daja77:oh, like make a ton of perl packages using cpan inside target?
22:48 -!- Ge0rG [georg@club-mate.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:48 < cchamilt> I thought about it, but it would break some assumptions on rock.
22:49 < cchamilt> Like download and build cycle separation.
22:49 < cchamilt> cpan does it all together.
22:49 < jsaw> cchamilt: well, one objection, I prefer a common version base
22:49 < cchamilt> jsaw:?
22:50 < cchamilt> common version base?
22:50 < jsaw> I mean, I'd prefer to have a package version explicitly associated with a rock distro version..
22:50 < cchamilt> Oh, hmm
22:51 < cchamilt> cpan and perl dont work that way though.
22:51 < cchamilt> If you have problems in perl, thye just say have you updated the package?
22:51 < cchamilt> bleeding edge=most stable and secure usually
22:52 < cchamilt> kind of like us
22:52 < cchamilt> cpan does a thing where it will update all installed packages to the latest version with one command
22:52 < cchamilt> php's pear does this too
22:54 < cchamilt> authors aren't supposed to post less stable version on to cpan.
22:54 < cchamilt> betas and alphas of new versions are not stored on cpan (unless that is the best version in the authors mind)
22:56 < cchamilt> Hmm, looking at cpan - autobundle...
22:56 < cchamilt> autobundle creates a master set of your currently installed packages.
22:57 < cchamilt> Might work for specific targets, but ugh.
22:58 < jsaw> hmmm...
22:58 < cchamilt> It generates a simple data file that is just 'package version' pairs
22:59 < cchamilt> You run it in cpan and it will then install that exact set.
22:59 < jsaw> but how do you create packages of it?
22:59 < cchamilt> Might work post system install.  It would not put them on the iso.
23:00 < cchamilt> Yeah, need them on iso.
23:00 < jsaw> that would require a special multi-pass package, with an overwritten parse_config..
23:01 < cchamilt> Damn, still back to where I was thinking.
23:02 < SMP> CPAN _can_ separate download and build
23:02 < cchamilt> The best idea may be generating rock packages from something like that.
23:03 < cchamilt> smp: Well it makes a cache of files right?
23:03 < SMP> so to say
23:03 < cchamilt> smp: How would we do that - cpan:// uris?
23:03 < cchamilt> and then store them somewhere?
23:04 < cchamilt> cpan needs configured on the localhost, and in the chroot if we use it as installer.
23:04 < SMP> I don't know - what were you discussing?
23:05 < cchamilt> How to make a cpan->rock interface that makes packages for rock automatically.
23:05 < SMP> why would that need a specia url scheme?
23:06 < tcr> rxr: ping
23:07 < cchamilt> The goal is to limit the amount of maintenance per package.
23:07 < cchamilt> If we used cpan directly in rock, we would need to pass the package names to cpan to resolve them somehow.
23:08 < cchamilt> Anyway, I don't think that is a solution
23:08 < cchamilt> What I was originally thinking was just make some script that butchers cpans current list of packages/versions and generates rock packages from that.
23:09 < cchamilt> It may be limited on description, but it can easily keep the versions up to date.
23:10 < tcr> Darn, sometimes I really think that it'd be a great benefits for ROCK if there were exceptions in shell
23:10 < rxr> re
23:10 < rxr> pon tcr 
23:10 < cchamilt> Heck,maybe even just a script that alters or creates a patch for the new url and version
23:11 < tcr> rxr: I decided not to disturb you but to wait until tomorrow to test my question out (which I think is better)
23:11 * tcr reading backlog
23:11 < cchamilt> Back in the day, one of my biggest problems updating my rock packages was incrementing perl modules.
23:12 < cchamilt> ugh, headache brb
23:13 < SMP> I think this should probably implemented on the same layer as the current package system  - not on top of it
23:13 < daja77> weee, printer config took me 3 min, after 3h compile orgy
23:13 * daja77 now goin home, cu
23:13 < SMP> heck. CPAN even has its own flist method
23:13 < jsaw> daja77: c?
23:13 < cchamilt> cu daja
23:13 < jsaw> that's why I love it.
23:14 < jsaw> cu daja77 
23:14 < daja77> jsaw: hm?
23:14 < jsaw> (cups is easy to admin imo)
23:14 < daja77> yeah but getting apps to print still sucks
23:14 < daja77> anyway, l8er
23:14 < cchamilt> So, we make a cpan url? Or do we make a special package type?
23:15 < SMP> the latter, I'd say
23:15 < cchamilt> hmm
23:15 < cchamilt> package/perl package/php package/python ?
23:16 < SMP> more like package-rock/ package-cpan/
23:16 < SMP>  . o O ( package-rpm/ package-deb/ )
23:16 < cchamilt> don't know if the auditors would buy that..
23:17 < cchamilt> I think that would be cool
23:17 < jsaw> special/{cpan,...}
23:17 < rxr> could we discuss such intrusive term on the mailing list, please?
23:18 < SMP> jsaw: not special - all packages should be equal! :)
23:18 < cchamilt> heh, nah lets make a decision here where we can easily have a consensus :)
23:18 < jsaw> cpan packages ARE NOT EQUAL, that's what cchamilt tried to explain.
23:18 < tcr> rxr: No and yes. It's way easier to discuss a first draft here, but that one should be sent to the ml
23:19 < tcr> jsaw: I missed that, why so?
23:19 < cchamilt> Seriously, I do fear the silence of the maillist for this.
23:19 < jsaw> tcr: because cpan fetches not a specific version, but the newest
23:19 -!- n00kie [~n00kie@M261P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
23:19 < cchamilt> It can version, I just dont think it would be wise.
23:20 < cchamilt> pear for php can specify stability I think, if not version too.
23:20 < cchamilt> I think ideally, we should support both a 'current' type and a versioned.
23:21 < tcr> jsaw: That's no a very big problem insofar because I have "support multiple versions of one package" on my .plan which address this problem 
23:21 < SMP> ugh
23:21 < tcr>     * Possibility of several package versions at once, see also:
23:21 < tcr>         http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20030322.084430.4abff6bb.html
23:21 < tcr>         http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20030322.124052.2b836e16.html
23:21 < jsaw> hey, cchamilt, here comes tcr with a solution... 
23:21 < SMP> stupid idea of the day ;)
23:21 < jsaw> maybe
23:21 < cchamilt> oh I like his stuff :)
23:22 < jsaw> SMP: bdb?
23:22 < cchamilt> tcr:pjotr and i wanted that stuff a long time ago, rock will eventually evolve when it is ready.
23:22 < SMP> there's nothing seriously wrong with how we do it at the moment
23:23 < cchamilt> we do need to balance various complications versus end-result for any build system changes.
23:23 < tcr> SMP: It leaves more power to the user (of rocklinux and the distribution build kit)
23:23 < jsaw> SMP: if wouldn't have written "seriously" I may accept "stupid idea of the day"...
23:24 < rxr> jsaw: ?
23:25 < cchamilt> the big problem with versioning anything is testing.  cpan is kind of an exception as 99% of it supposed to be the most recent.
23:25 < jsaw> rxr: inserting "seriously" into the sentence means, actually there is sth. wrong, but we can live with it...
23:25 < cchamilt> however, linux distro as current everything causes problems - mostly due to non-current standardized distros the authors use.
23:26 < tcr> Actually I can imagine the case of giving a user the possibility to determine any arbitrary version of a package
23:26 < tcr> it's not that hard actually, we'd just use arch as a package management tool ;)
23:26 < jsaw> (but, I also think that having bdb{33,40,41} is easier to manage the bdb with multiple versions)
23:26 < cchamilt> it is the fate of any project like use, where we cant actually see all the code updates individually being updated and monitor them.
23:28 < tcr> cchamilt: ( mostly due to non-current standardized distros the authors use.:) can you explain that?
23:28 < cchamilt> I a definitely for making a version update easier, or external to the package files.
23:28 < jsaw> cchamilt: time for email to ml, don't u think so?
23:28 < cchamilt> :)
23:29 < cchamilt> It is the versionitus rock gets when someone sends rene about 30 package version bumps.
23:29 < cchamilt> And then nothing builds right for a week.
23:30 < cchamilt> Individually, those version updates are harmless, but together they break the build.
23:30 < cchamilt> If we support arbitrary upgrade/downgrade of a package or set of packages this will likely happen often to users.
23:30 < tcr> I think a mail about that is too precocious(sp?).. cchamilt: better would be to fill a feature request in flyspray, so that the discussion is moved to a later point of time (the time of 2.1)
23:32 < cchamilt> It was what I was saying earlier, we are not bsd with a single cvs that everything commits to, we just pull tarballs together and hope.
23:32 < cchamilt> I will try and use flyspray, I think it is too complicated for me.
23:33 < tcr> cchamilt: (pull tarballs together and hope:) Yes, but this can get better with a better integration and expandation of the regression tester
23:34 < tcr> cchamilt: (arbitrary upgrade/downgrade will likely break builds:) Keep in mind that this possibility (of arbitrary versions) is primarely intended for DBK users
23:35 < cchamilt> OK, what am I flyspraying?
23:36 < cchamilt> better cpan integraton?
23:37 < rxr> I think you should not only put it in flysrpay - but also mail the list for a ongoing discussion ...
23:38 < tcr> rxr: Well, I think clifford will start a broad discussion about future of rock, and will use flyspray items as a means of help. So it's really just a deferation(?) of the discussion :)
23:38 < cchamilt> OK, I will give you guys a flyspray draft to approve in a moment.
23:39 < tcr> cchamilt: You can send that draft to the list (ok with you rxr?)
23:43 < jsaw> bbl
23:44 < tcr> me too
23:47 -!- martin [~martin@pD9E7B090.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
23:48 < cchamilt> OK, I think I am tired and getting snide.
23:49 < cchamilt> Will you guys look at it here before I make myself a jerk on the list...
23:49 < martin> Hello
23:50 < rxr> hi martin 
23:50 < cchamilt> It has been suggested that maintainance of packages that include perl modules may become cumbersome (tons of packages, lots of version updates).  cpan however makes download/installing version specific and the latest releases or perl modules easily.
23:50 < rxr> martin: read my mail I just sent to you ?
23:50 < cchamilt> It has been proposed that rock integrate cpan, pear, and other similar systems into its scripts to present a more complete and simpler way of
23:50 < cchamilt> maintaining these types of packages.
23:50 < cchamilt> It has further been proposed that while these specific packaging systems are being integrated, that it might be possible form a general interface and structure to supporting any other packaging system - ie. rpm and deb.
23:50 < cchamilt> This system may also require mechanisms for arbitrary versioning of packages for rock in general.  This idea has been discussed and shot down many times mostly due to complications of fitting it into the current package tree structure (ownerships), added amount of maintenance, and the addition of possibly untested configurations (something rock already has thanks to Config :) ).
23:51 < rxr> tcr: I even said put it in flyspary - but also to the list ...
23:51 < cchamilt> rxr:If you guys dont think it will start flames, I will.
23:52 < rxr> cchamilt: ?
23:52 < cchamilt> rxr: yes?
23:52 < rxr> 23:51 < cchamilt> rxr:If you guys dont think it will start flames, I will.
23:52 < rxr> ?
23:53 < cchamilt> I was being snide in it.
23:53 < daja77> re
23:54 * daja77 don't like the flames on ml
23:54 < cchamilt> If you guys think my ?temperment? is still ok in the writing, then I will submit. Otherwise suggest where I should clean it up.
23:54 < martin> rxr: Yes. But I come home 5 minutes ago. And I'll sleeping so deep. Write it tomorrow
23:55 < daja77> wow 68 new mails on list today
23:56 < cchamilt> Is it even what we want to have discussed?
23:56 < cchamilt> Am I missing any points?
23:56 < SMP> cchamilt: I'd kill the last paragraph (multiple versions)
23:57 < SMP> cchamilt: and I
23:57 < SMP> gah
23:57 < cchamilt> Yeah, it is definitely another subject.
23:57 < cchamilt> Well, the second paragraph is what you want, the third tcr. :)
23:58 < SMP> and I'd like to see some words about how CPAN e.g. is different (u to having its own flist 'wrapper') and cannot easily be satisfied with the current system.
23:58 < cchamilt> Sorry smp, your the third paragraph, tcr fourth. The first and second are all I started with.
23:59 < cchamilt> How about three flysprays and one maillist discussion?
--- Log closed Thu Aug 28 00:00:19 2003