--- Log opened Sat Sep 06 00:00:02 2003
--- Day changed Sat Sep 06 2003
00:00 < holyolli> okay even
00:00 < holyolli> Mike1: and what is .cr doing...? ;-)
00:00 < Mike1> holyolli: i've been flying 2 hours everyday this week, will do 4 tomorrow, envy me :)
00:01 < holyolli> Mike1: cool! what airplane?
00:01 < Mike1> holyolli: regarding .cr .. well the weather is crazy, hot as hell during the mourning, afternoons with storms, nights quite cold
00:01 < holyolli> Mike1: do you also have trouble with tropical storms there?
00:02 < fake> rock linux ueber deutschland!
00:02 < Mike1> holyolli: Cesna Grand Caravans :)
00:02 < fake> ;-)
00:02 < holyolli> fake: *fg*
00:02 < holyolli> Mike1: wow...!
00:03 < Mike1> holyolli: dunno, things are just crazy here
00:03 < fake> oh, it's saturday
00:03 < Mike1> holyolli: i am doing some "practices" for a charters company here, i might work for them on weekends...
00:03 < daja77> fake: yeah, weekend
00:04 < holyolli> Mike1: how many horses does the caravan have?
00:05 < holyolli> Mike1: that sounds fine!
00:05 * fake has a nice photo of owl
00:06 < holyolli> fake: url...? ;-)
00:07 < fake> holyolli: be patient. i'm uploading a bunch of high-res pics...
00:08 * fake cleaning up and preparing laptop for 4 days of disconnection...
00:09 < holyolli> fake: how do you want to survive 4 days without inet...?
00:09 < Mike1> holyolli: look: http://www.aerofiles.com/ces-208b.jpg
00:09 < holyolli> .oO(calling with a normal phone on modem lines just to hear the sound of dataflow ;-)
00:09 < holyolli> *rrrrrr*
00:09 < holyolli> ;-)
00:10 < fake> holyolli: no, no *lol*... there are internet cafes there. i just doubt i'll be able to hook up my notebook
00:10 < fake> and i've got some work to finish
00:10 < holyolli> Mike1: it it a turbo-/supercharged enine?
00:10 < Mike1> ack.
00:10 < Mike1> 675hp
00:11 < holyolli> l33t. extremly...
00:11 < holyolli> <-- getting more and more envy ;-)
00:12 < Mike1> holyolli: well if i get this weekend "job" i we will find a way to have you fly one when you come over
00:12 < holyolli> Mike1: that would be really fantastic
00:12 < Mike1> indeed :)
00:14 < holyolli> Mike1: was the airplane HP-1402APP?
00:17 < Mike1> not that specific baby, but same kind and same airline
00:17 < Mike1> and same airport.. :)
00:18 < holyolli> Mike1: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/095603/M/
00:18 < holyolli> ;-)
00:18 < Mike1> yeah :)
00:19 < Mike1> that baby falled last year ...
00:20 < holyolli> oh
00:20 < Mike1> yeah both pilots dead..
00:20 < Mike1> anyways let talk about something else.
00:21 < holyolli> yea
00:21 < holyolli> <-- is trying to compile a little bit again...
00:22 < Mike1> actually i think we are _REALLY_ off topic :)
00:22 < holyolli> hehe
00:22 < fake> A  trunk/package/sirkull/shorewall
00:22 < Mike1> wow, do you actually remeber how to track bugs or compile errors?
00:22 < fake> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
00:22 < fake> oh, i love svn
00:22 < holyolli> Mike1: ;-P
00:23 < Mike1> holyolli: i mean .. its been quite a while
00:23 * Mike1 imagines holyolli typing with 2 fingers
00:23 < holyolli> Mike1: /* no comment */
00:23 < holyolli> ;-)
00:23 < Mike1> hahaha
00:24 < daja77> fake & sun a strange thought
00:24 < holyolli> Mike1: during my stay in the us i also did some administrative stuff, but not that much
00:24 < Mike1> :))
00:25 * Mike1 wonders if holyolli used M$ Flight Simulator while he was on the states ..
00:25 < fake> daja77: sun? why? they produce great servers...
00:25 < Mike1> fake: full ack.
00:25 < holyolli> Mike1: jepp. we did. we practised our ifr approaches
00:25 < daja77> well i thought of that big yellow ball
00:25 < fake> the evil daystar?
00:25 < daja77> yepp
00:25 < Mike1> holyolli: omg :)
00:25 < holyolli> hehe
00:25 < daja77> no ms flight simulator, flightgear :)
00:26 < fake> i hide from it in caves like a real jedi... eh... geek ;)
00:26 < daja77> *gg* i know
00:26 < fake> daja77: croatia will be a night-activities-only holiday, of course ;)
00:26 < daja77> but you belong to the dark side
00:27 < daja77> hehe, you in croatia
00:27 < fake> daja77: although the light side is very.. tempting...
00:27 < daja77> :)
00:28 * daja77 likes tesby.mov
00:28 < daja77> the way he pronounces dark side, is great
00:30 < fake> go out, do some shopping - I'M your master now! *rofl*
00:30 < daja77> hehe yeah
00:30 < daja77> you forgit the : wet your pants
00:30 < daja77> forgot
00:32 < fake> uploads.. take ages... lalala... *twiddlingthumbs*
00:32 < daja77> upload, you upload what?
00:33 < fake> pics
00:33 < daja77> oh thought the movie
00:33 < fake> i borrowed my mom's new ultra-leet digicam while she's on vacation
00:34 < daja77> hehe
00:35 * A-Tui is away: Pelos Largos, Caras Enfermas
00:35 < daja77> hi A-Tui 
00:35 < daja77> :)
00:35 < daja77> xchat spotted
00:35 < daja77> :)
00:36 < daja77> btw fake's quitr message was funny today
00:37 < fake> what was it?
00:37 < daja77> ok i am off to bed now
00:37 < A-Tui> hola daja77
00:37 < A-Tui> buenas noches :)
00:37 < daja77> fake: a friend with weed is a friend indeed
00:37 < fake> daja77: ah, i noticed that, too .. hehe ;)
00:37 < daja77> :)
00:37 < fake> daja77: it's from bitchx...
00:38 < daja77> i know, the first bitchx quit message i like
00:38 < holyolli> n8
00:38 < holyolli> buenas noches
00:38 < holyolli> got natt
00:38 < holyolli> whatever...cu tomorrow ;-)
00:38 < daja77> yepp n8 
00:38 < fake> holyolli: gn8!
00:38 -!- holyolli [~holyolli@port-212-202-177-191.reverse.qdsl-home.de] has quit ("User abortion with 5 coathooks")
00:39 < daja77> lol
00:39 < daja77> ok off now
00:39 * fake making some more coffee -- still not really awake...
00:39 < fake> daja77: owl's pic is almost ready
00:40 < fake> daja77: 5 more minutes?
00:40 < daja77> *grml*
00:40 * daja77 waits
00:43 < fake> ok, upload finished
00:43 < fake> now i'll kick off thumbnail and index generation...
00:45 < daja77> :)
00:50 < fake> mys workspace 3 years ago: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/other/IDE.JPG
00:50 < fake> 2 years ago: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/other/32-snapshot.jpg
00:50 < fake> and today: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/other/imgp0024.jpg
00:51 < daja77> hehe is this your mum at the pc
00:51 < fake> what?
00:52 < fake> aeh... no... *g*
00:52 < daja77> the second
00:52 < daja77> a rocklinux poster, cool
00:52 < fake> and here's owl: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/friends/owl.jpg
00:53 < daja77> what game are you playing at the right monitor
00:53 < fake> and eye-toy is a _lot_ of fun: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/parties/eye-toy/
00:54 < fake> daja77: that is "Blursk", a cool output vis plugin for xmms
00:54 < daja77> hehe
00:55 < fake> my co-workers are all psychos: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/work/alz-tour/RIMG0023.jpg
00:55 < daja77> ah in train, .oO picture flood
00:57 < daja77> O_o, owl smiling
00:57 < fake> and here they _almost_ got me: http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/hacking/cccamp-2003/d0010192.jpg
00:58 < daja77> *hmpf* my conn is so lame, ineed the whole night to see them all
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00:59 < fake> daja77: there are a few, yes... http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/ ...
01:00 < daja77> hehehe
01:00 < rammi> http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/work/alz-tour/RIMG0023.jpg :)
01:01 < fake> rammi: he actually almost sank - he can't swim
01:01 * daja77 likes to tour with fake again :)
01:01 < rammi> hehe
01:02 < fake> daja77: just without 'collateral damage' next time *g*
01:02 < daja77> hehe, yepp no sleepy me behind the wheel
01:02 < fake> neither me
01:03 * daja77 has more luck than he deserves
01:05 < fake> don't say stuff like that
01:05 < daja77> fake: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~jahre/lospalmos.jpg
01:05 < fake> i'm damn glad i din't cause more trouble
01:05 < daja77> it is true, but indeed we don't have to discuss that
01:06 < fake> is that in chemnitz?
01:06 < daja77> lol, no
01:06 < fake> ;)
01:06 < daja77> cote d'azur, march 2002
01:06 < daja77> i liked that tree :)
01:06 < fake> why?
01:07 < daja77> it looks nice, and btw the ocean was just a few meters away
01:07 < daja77> http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~jahre/meer.jpg
01:07 < daja77> :)
01:07 < esden> ahh an image of a fake !!!! : http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/work/from_pe_man/P1010049.JPG
01:07 < esden> WEEE
01:08 < daja77> http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~jahre/daja-fighting.jpg
01:09 < esden> and another one http://fake.by-infonet.de/pics/work/from_pe_man/P1010048.JPG ... what is going on???
01:09 < daja77> :)
01:10 < fake> esden: that's not me.
01:10 < daja77> esden needs a shave
01:11 < esden> o_O
01:11 < fake> daja77: the sea would look even more comfortable in the night with a moon above it ;)
01:11 < esden> I have drunk too much then
01:11 < daja77> ic
01:12 * fake still cleaning up home dir...
01:12 * -> esden really get's the feeling that rene is scared of applying his dietlibc patches ;)
01:12 < fake> boy, that's like cleaning up the attic
01:13 < daja77> hehe
01:13 < daja77> rm -rf ...
01:13 < rxr> esden: why?
01:13 < rxr> I just do the cleanup before I tag a -rc1+fixes for the PowerPC release
01:14 < rxr> and of course I want a ISO where the kernel is included
01:14 < esden> rxr: hehe ... you are always listening ... right?
01:14 < esden> rxr: only for your information I have another 4 patches laying around here ;)
01:14 < daja77> esden needs to be watched ...
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01:15 < esden> daja77: /me .. noooooo I am always acting friendly and nice ... so I do not have to be watched
01:15 < daja77> rofl
01:15 * fake sets mode +constant observation for esden
01:15 < rxr> esden: nope not always and I re'ed half an hour ago ...
01:16 < esden> fake: stop it ... it hurts!!!
01:17 < esden> rxr: ok
01:17 < daja77> fake: let is this way
01:17 < daja77> it
01:18 < daja77> :)
01:18 < rxr> esden: ,)
01:18 < fake> esden: you act like golomb with the elvish string attachted to his throat
01:18 < rxr> esden: btw the chinese food was nice and herry potter, well sort of
01:19 < esden> rxr: GRRR ... you only want to tease me :(((((
01:19 < fake> rxr: let's invite apocalyptica to the 2.0 release party
01:19 < daja77> lol, /me remembering that one harry potter rant on asr
01:19 < daja77> yeah
01:19 < esden> fake: GOOOOOOD IDEA!!!
01:20 < esden> fake: you may take care of that
01:20 < fake> esden: okay, i take care of it, you pay
01:21 < fake> that's nice.
01:21 * daja77 quotes from his mind: every other child would be punished for his stupid behaviour but  harry gets milk and cookies instead
01:21 < rxr> esden: I'm optimistic we can repeat it the next weekend?
01:21 < rxr> fake: yes - nice idea!
01:22 < fake> unfortunately my finish is not the best
01:23 < esden> fake: I have no money ... make them come and play for free
01:23 < esden> fake: it could be a charity concert for poor rock developers ;)
01:23 < Mike1> cu
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01:24 < esden> rxr: hmm ... ask miss schulze ... I am then on her ground and such decisions are not on my side ;)
01:24 < esden> but why not
01:25 < daja77> http://groups.google.com/groups?group:alt.sysadmin.recovery&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=slrnb726ns.k0s.abigail%40alexandra.abigail.nl&rnum=1
01:26 < daja77> :)
01:27 < esden> daja77: that is a hell long url ;)
01:27 < daja77> yeah, sorry
01:27 < daja77> blame google
01:27 < esden> daja77: realize it finally ... you suck *VBEG*
01:28 < fake> hey
01:28 < fake> I'M the sucker here!
01:28 < rammi> god night.. cu
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01:28 < daja77> as i said, he needs observation
01:28 < fake> cu rammi!
01:28 < daja77> cu rammi 
01:28 < esden> fake: forget it ... daja77 has run out your sucker position
01:28 < esden> cu rammi 
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01:28 < daja77> esden sucks, cos he can't handle long urls
01:28 < fake> esden: i doubt it
01:29 < fake> my suckerness is trained since years
01:29 < esden> fake: you have to proof it
01:29 < daja77> hehe
01:29 * daja77 sucking esden's mails
01:29 < esden> yuck
01:30 < rxr> fake: would you like to test the update of xmms an whether to remove your alsa-xmms package in that case?
01:30 < esden> *puke*
01:30 < esden> daja77: stop it
01:30 < fake> the fact that i can't proove it, but insist on telling the truth, is a proove for itself
01:30 < daja77> I read your email, muhahahaha
01:30 * daja77 now sucking his thumb, in bed
01:30 < fake> rxr: i would, but unfortunately i'm just getting ready to leave for vacation - but if the update obsoletes alsa-xmms, i'd even be happy
01:31 < esden> daja77: have fun
01:31 < esden> fake: how long will you be away and where?
01:31 < Ge0rG> bye daja
01:31 < fake> daja77: sleep well! see you on tuesday or so
01:31 * daja77 kicks esden 
01:31 < esden> cu daja77 
01:31 < esden> sleep well
01:31 < fake> esden: til tuesday evening, croatia
01:31 < daja77> cu all
01:31 < esden> ohh cool with nos?
01:32 < fake> esden: nos, holli, drachi and fritzi
01:32 < daja77> bye Ge0rG, hope to see you back soon :)
01:32 < esden> greet them all from me 
01:32 < fake> esden: in other words: it's going to be chaotic
01:32 < Ge0rG> daja77: if I can circumvent the ban ;)
01:32 < daja77> :)
01:32 < esden> and hug the apriopriato ones ;)
01:32 < fake> esden: i will not hug anyone
01:32 < esden> apriopriate
01:33 < fake> aproproate
01:33 < fake> argh!
01:33 < fake> appropriate
01:33 < esden> erm ... at least virtually/verbally
01:33 < Ge0rG> go to the congress and get FREE HUGS[tm] :)
01:33 < esden> or so
01:33 < daja77> hugs, that haskell interpreter
01:33 * fake will beat up anyone who tries to hug him
01:33 < fake> (except nice, beautiful hot bitches)
01:34 < esden> fake: you know what I mean
01:34 < fake> esden: sure. i'll greet them ;)
01:34 < Ge0rG> nice bitches... thats like... intelligent managers
01:34 < esden> good
01:34 < esden> Ge0rG: ROFL
01:34 < fake> Ge0rG: ack. but one has to keep an open mind ...
01:35 * fake finally making coffee
01:35 < esden> little bi is never wrong fake ... right? ;)
01:36 < esden> ok I go to bed ... I have to climb up a hill tomorrow
01:36 < esden> cu on sunday evening or so ...
01:36 < esden> or even monday ... who knows
01:36 < esden> cu guys
01:39 < fake> cya esden!
01:39 * fake translocation
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01:58 * fake off
01:58 < fake> cu
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02:29 < rxr> argh this damn Imake build fluff
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02:54 < rxr> ok cool after far too much investigation vnc now continues to build on ppc
02:54 < rxr> Nebukadneza: you polute the channel - please stop this!
02:58 < rxr> how can humans produce crap like this Imake* fluff ...
03:01 < rxr> next try: make World
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03:01 < rxr> Nebukadneza: you polute the channel - please stop this!
03:02 < rxr> Nebukadneza2: with you continous comming and foing ...
03:04 < mnemoc> and with that loooong nick :\
03:06 < rxr> hi mnemoc 
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03:08 < mnemoc> hi rxr
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03:32 < spec|hacke> n8
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03:38 * rxr pushing the load on the rs6k higher and higher ...
03:51 < owl> .oO(everbody already sleeping?)
04:00 < rxr> nope
04:01 < owl> O_o still working rxr ?
04:03 < rxr> sure
04:03 < owl> uff.
04:04 < mnemoc> rxr loves to see the sunsets :)
04:04 < owl> hehe. hi mnemoc 
04:04 < mnemoc> hi happyowl
04:05 < owl> mnemoc: 
04:05 < owl> *kick*
04:06 < rxr> mnemoc: .-)
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04:07 < owl> http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzkultur/0,1518,264534,00.html < muhahahahahahahahaha!!!
04:10 < owl> http://cgi6.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3044394492 << omfg!
04:11 < owl> .oO(/me should provide a new folder for linux-system... *cough* *cough* *cough*)
04:12 < Freak> :)
04:12 < Freak> we could start selling cds with "new folder"s!
04:13 < spec|hacke> *löl*
04:13 < owl> yes. what about "new folder{0-1000}" wouldn't be that the ultimate idea=
04:14 < owl> wow, guys - i really will set up an account on ebay... and create a "unamed folder" for linux *rotfl*
04:15 < spec|hacke> for i < 1000 ; do mkdir new_folda$i ; $((i=i+1)) ; done  
04:15 < owl> might someone will be as richt as bill gates one time... 
04:15 < spec|hacke> =)
04:15 < owl> muha. yes :p
04:16 < spec|hacke> I am a linarian :-)
04:17 < owl> linarian?
04:18 < spec|hacke> try /opt/f
04:18 < spec|hacke> try /opt/games/freedroidRPG :)
04:19 < owl> <-- doesn't use rocklinux
04:19 < spec|hacke> why ?
04:19 < owl> because - aehm - i don't use it.
04:19 < owl> <-- using LFS
04:19 < spec|hacke> uuuuhhhohhhh ;))
04:20 < owl> why?
04:21 < spec|hacke> I'm thinking about reading the LFS guide - should be an okay linux overview
04:21 < owl> yeah...
04:22 < spec|hacke> then again - I'd have to read .)
04:23 < owl> hehe
04:23 < owl> <-- has to sleep now... sports in the morning (15 o'clock --> not good if i'm tired then *cough*) gn8
04:24 < spec|hacke> yeah, morning tim, *G* 
04:24 < spec|hacke> n8 owl
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06:36 < SecOrbit> Brazil present
06:36 < SecOrbit> is back
06:40 * SecOrbit is away: volto daki a pouco pessoal.
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08:30 * -> esden off for Hoellenthal :)
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11:38 < owl> moin
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12:20 -!- spec|hacke is now known as _spectre_
12:20 < _spectre_> moin
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12:24 < daja77> moin
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12:25 < holyolli> moin
12:26 < owl> hi holyolli 
12:26 < holyolli> hi owl
12:45 < cchamilt> Hello all
12:45 < daja77> moin cchamilt 
12:46 < cchamilt> What causes 'analog' distortion in some higher bitrate mp3s?
12:47 < cchamilt> I would think they were bad mp3s, but I didn't notice this last time I listened to them (a few months ago).
12:47 < cchamilt> Its not chirps/clicks/cutouts actual overdrive.
12:48 < cchamilt> It seems to relate to the higher bitrate more than recording db.
12:49 < cchamilt> Anyone relate?
12:51 * holyolli has no idea
12:51 < cchamilt> Oh well, I need to reinstall the laptop anyway.  It has been running mixed with some SSE stuff that the crusoe does not execute(including alsa progs).
12:52 < cchamilt> I just worry I blew the amp, but like I said it seems to be a digital issue.
12:57 * cchamilt Thinks it may be a 'content' size issue in the D/A and wonders if my laptop is crap.
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13:14 < jsaw> re
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13:26 < rxr> re, too
13:26 < jsaw> hi rxr
13:26 < SMP> hi ..
13:27 < jsaw> hell SMP
13:27 < jsaw> haha, s/hell/hello/
13:29 * jsaw has a cold, so, don't pay too much attention to him
13:30 < owl> <-- off
13:30 < owl> going to die. bye
13:33 < holyolli> cu owl
13:34 < cytrinox> moin
13:35 < holyolli> hi cytrinox
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16:36 < mnemoc> re
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16:54 < daja77> re
16:54 < daja77> who is this guy who connects from mike's machine
17:02 < holyolli> no idea...hi daja btw. ;-)
17:03 < daja77> huhu holyolli 
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17:53 < esden> re hi folks
17:55 < daja77> huhu esden
17:56 < esden> that was nice ... nature hills ... very nice ;)
17:57 < esden> now I am back for some moments ;)
17:57 * daja77 is off in some minutes
18:03 < daja77> cu later
18:03 < mnemoc> cu daja77 
18:03 < mnemoc> rxr: ping?
18:10 < mnemoc> if python currently includes xml, should i remove binding from libxml2 or from python?
18:10 < esden> binding?
18:10 < esden> what you mean?
18:11 < mnemoc> xmllib.pyc is create by python
18:11 < mnemoc> and by libxml2
18:11 < mnemoc> i think libxml2 adds xml support to python creating a 'bind'
18:13 < mnemoc> am i too lost?
18:14 < esden> mnemoc: remove it from python
18:15 < mnemoc> all of them? (see query)
18:15 < esden> ack
18:20 < mnemoc> damn... it includes expat too
18:23 < mnemoc> Usage of a system shared libexpat.so/expat.dll is not advised.
18:23 < mnemoc> hate ppl that reinvent the wheel
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18:49 < mnemoc> aaaargh... python2.3 seems to 'take ownership' of every related file... bittorrent, gnuplot, wxpython, libxml2, etc....
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19:38 < mnemoc> esden?
19:39 < mnemoc> if i build libxml fisrt, python doesn't build it's own :)
19:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9119.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:39 < mnemoc> wb tcr
19:40 < tcr> moin all
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19:54 < esden> lool I have an Erkan und Stefan version of Asterix and Obelix in America ... *rofl*
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20:03 < esden> ok ... cu all
20:03 < mnemoc> cu esden
20:09 < SMP> ahh, mnemoc 
20:09 < SMP> mnemoc: you seem to be working on Python 2.3 as well?
20:11 < mnemoc> yep
20:11 < mnemoc> if you build python after libxml2 they don't share files :)
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20:12 < dennis_> re all
20:12 < mnemoc> i'm hating this python, but we need to addapt to new versions :(
20:12 < SMP> I thought I had a complete patch ready - didn't test a whole build though, so Python found libxml2 in the installed system
20:12 < mnemoc> re dennis_ 
20:13 < tcr> Ah star trek IV today! Best star trek movie ever!
20:13 < SMP> mnemoc: what other fixes did you need?
20:14 < mnemoc> i did a generic with stack+gcc33+py23 but i got 153 errors on stage 5 so i'll have to split tests :(
20:15 < mnemoc> my only patch related with py is libxml2 before...
20:15 < SMP> apart from the (crude) rpm and xchat things that I already sent you I disabled python bindings for paragui with Rene's consent
20:15 < SMP> ok, libxml2 build order
20:15 < SMP> that should basically be it
20:16 < SMP> no, wait, I'm babbling ;-(
20:16 < SMP> of course I did a complete build (geesh, I'm running it on the laptop after all) - but I didn't get that libxml2 problem
20:17 < mnemoc> see query
20:18 < dennis_> hi mnemoc 
20:19 < SMP> someone knows how to introduce an artificial dependency?
20:20 < mnemoc> add_dependency or something like that
20:21 < SMP> ohh yeah, it's in scripts/functions
20:25 < mnemoc> http://www.msdsite.com/ebay/87-1/boot.jpg <---- ;')
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20:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EA9119.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Ninety percent of everything is crap.")
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20:38 < tcr> Hmmpf.. I get "[...] Package [...] does not exist." message when running Emerge-Pkg
20:39 < tcr> However, I can't find any file when grepping for 'Package .* does not exist'
20:44 < SMP> $ grep -n exist scripts/*
20:44 < SMP> scripts/Build-Pkg:280:  echo_pkg_deny $stagelevel $pkg "does not exist" ; exit 1
20:45 < tcr> Oh
20:45 < SMP> no problem, everyone's making himself a fool here once today ;)
20:48 * tcr got to restart
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20:49 < martman> hi guys
20:50 < martman> is there any update system for rock linux? what kind of packages are used?
20:51 < martman> anyone alive here?
20:51 < mnemoc> what are you runing? exactly
20:52 < SMP> our package format is a custom one called GEM
20:52 < SMP> what exactly do you mean by 'update system'?
20:53 < martman> a program that will get newer packages
20:53 < martman> whats GEM like? rpms? ebuilds? normal tarballs?
20:53 < SMP> we have a scripts/Update-System, that checks for new versions of already installed packages and does a rebuild from source for them
20:54 < martman> so it will download the updates?
20:54 < SMP> a system called rocket that works like apt-get is planned
20:54 < mnemoc> you have to update your source
20:54 < mnemoc> then check your system
20:54 < mnemoc> and then update it
20:54 < mnemoc> cd /usr/src/rock-src
20:54 < SMP> GEMs are like RPM, but they don't suck
20:55 < martman> lol, nice way for putting it :)_
20:55 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Update-src
20:55 < martman> so how far off is rocket? soon? usable now?
20:55 < SMP> it's vaporware right now, no ETA
20:56 < martman> hmmm, thats alittle disappointing. hunting for new versions isnt fun for me
20:56 < mnemoc> the scritps do it for you
20:56 < mnemoc> go to /usr/src/rock-src
20:56 < mnemoc> run ./scripts/Update-src
20:57 < SMP> you need to understand that distributing binay packages is not generally useful for rock
20:57 < SMP> martman: have you ever worked with BSD?
20:57 < martman> yeah, id like to make my own
20:57 < martman> i just want it to grab the source for me
20:57 < martman> <--lazzy
20:57 < mnemoc> if you do your own, who proves you the proper updates? yourself
20:57 < SMP> that's what the scripts currently can do
20:57 < martman> i used to use netbsd a while ago. is it like ports?
20:58 < SMP> exactly, very much like ports
20:58 < martman> i ment it download the new source tar ball for X and then i set some compile flags and have it compiled
20:58 < SMP> but it works for all packages, incl. base system
20:58 < martman> yeah, i know. just a example
20:59 < martman> X has alot of little things
20:59 < martman> so whats rocket for?
20:59 < SMP> distribution of binary packages
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21:00 < SMP> as I mentioned - like apt-get
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21:00 < martman> o, ok. how flexible are the scripts? id like to have my desktop download the updates and compile it a couple times for different machines, will this be easy to pull off?
21:00 < martman> is there some kind of master database i could add stuff into?
21:01 < mnemoc> rtfm :(
21:01 < SMP> what do you mean with 'master database'?
21:01 < martman> i mean can my desktop know whats install on my laptop?
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21:01 < SMP> no
21:01 < martman> so it can download all the programs and compile it itself
21:02 < martman> hmmmm, i guess this will be tricky then
21:02 < SMP> the scripts work only in the context of the current machine
21:03 < martman> can i download the GEM and compile it and keep it around?
21:03 < SMP> how would you build a package for your laptop if your desktop has a different version of a package or just not installed?
21:03 < martman> so the GEM only has to be installed?
21:03 < martman> they would have the same versions. my desktop would get the newest version and compile once for p4 and once for p3
21:04 < SMP> yes, GEMs are binary packages that you can create even from your running system and distrubute and install, update, remove, reinstall to your heart's wishes
21:04 < mnemoc> standard rock scripts are for the.. build distributions to install them elsewhere.... ./Update-System is a feature to update local system
21:05 < SMP> well, you can build a package for p3 on your p4 system, but what if it statically links a library - it'll use the local p4 code which will end up in your p3 package
21:06 < martman> hmmm, never thought of that
21:07 < martman> if my desktop is the shhd server and my laptop logs on there the desktop would do the crunching right? i could chroot from my desktop to my laptop?
21:07 < martman> so the lib problems wont be there?
21:08 < SMP> is your laptop really that slow? building over NFS will be dog slow ...
21:10 < martman> why would it be slow? how would NFS make it slow? my desktop would do the compiling right? it would only have to check the libs right?
21:11 < martman> couldnt the temp files be placed on my desktop so there no real network talk after the start?
21:12 < SMP> no, your desktop would use all executables (shell, compiler, etc.) from your laptop
21:12 < SMP> temp files can be kept on local hd, though
21:13 < martman> is there anything i can do about chanign that? so the desktops gcc gets used?
21:13 < SMP> if you chroot there's nothing to use but the ones from the laptop, right ...
21:14 < SMP> the correct solution would be to treat this as a cross build
21:14 < martman> ok, how would i go about that?
21:14 < SMP> but we support that only for very few packages at the moment
21:14 < martman> would that let me make updates for a couple machines in a fairly automated way?
21:14 < SMP> basically just the toolchain
21:15 < martman> rock will only support a base system or is that just now?
21:15 < SMP> I was talking about cross building
21:15 < martman> only a couple can be cross compiled? why?
21:16 < SMP> because it's difficult, to say the least
21:17 < martman> what makes it hard?
21:17 < SMP> do you even know what you are talking about?
21:18 < martman> compiling on one arch for another? diff gcc options?
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21:20 < martman> SMP ???
21:21 < SMP> just using a cross compiler on some C files isn't hard
21:21 < SMP> but remember that a) you can't actually _use_ any of the programs you just built, because they are for another arhc
21:22 < martman> yeah, i know. the p3 will be used on my p3 laptop
21:23 < SMP> and b) you have to make sure that anything that might be archtitecture-dependent must be cross built - think of python modules  e.g.
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21:24 < martman> thats why id like to do it on my laptop but have my desktop do the crunching
21:24 < martman> can that be done?
21:26 < SMP> simple solution would be to keep a complete tree of what's supposed to run on the laptop locally on the desktop and chroot into it to build a package, then distribute it as binary to the laptop
21:27 < martman> i was hoping you woulndt say that
21:30 < martman> what about distgcc?
21:32 < SMP> we support distributed builds, but in a different way
21:32 < martman> how?
21:33 < SMP> packages build only on one node, but you can have a number of nodes to build packages in parallell
21:35 < SMP> we have a sofisticated system of build dependencies to make sure that a package is scheduled only when all it dependencies have finished building
21:35 < martman> well, with distgcc you can pick which ones can compile. do you have that?
21:35 < SMP> I don't undestand your question
21:36 < martman> id like compile on my laptop using my desktop copy for speed. with distgcc i can set them all up to compile. but in the config file i can have my laptop see my desktop but not compile itself
21:36 < martman> some im have 2 but one is disbled
21:37 < SMP> I don't know how distcc works, but does that not involve sharing a filesystem with e.g. NFS, too?
21:38 < martman> im not sure, i dont think so. alot of people use it to build Gentoo, i doubt they would do it with NFS speed.
21:38 < martman> can rock do what i want?
21:39 < SMP> well, you could hack that into the compiler wrapper
21:40 < martman> distcc is a option in make.conf
21:40 < martman> so it does that one its own
21:40 < martman> well, you add it to make.conf
21:41 < SMP> make.conf is Gentoo-specific
21:41 < martman> really? i thought i saw one in my rh install...
21:41 < martman> make.profile maybe?
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21:42 < SMP> and doesn't make much sense on rock, since the rock build system is not built around make
21:42 < SMP> unlike Gentoo's
21:42 < martman> so rock isnt source?
21:43 < SMP> no, all that compiling is just fake
21:43 < martman> wha???
21:45 < martman> compiling fake?
21:45 < SMP> come on - how would the usage of make as the infrastructure of ones build system be crucial for being a 'source distribution'
21:46 < SMP> which rock is not anyway - it's a distribution build kit, that's a bit different, but can be make do look like a 'source distribution'
21:47 < martman> well, for it to be a source base distro wouldnt it have to USE THE SOURCE TARBALL SOMEHOW?
21:47 < martman> so what does it use instead of a makefile? why would you switch to it?
21:48 < SMP> you're mixing things up
21:48 < SMP> (and you are also pissing me off)
21:48 < martman> um, how(with both)?
21:49 < SMP> Gentoo uses make to run commands that fiddle with source tarballs, ROCK uses shell scripts for that purpose, so logically there is no 'make.conf'
21:50 < martman> whats the shell scripts? why the change? it just seems liek it making it harder than it has to be
21:50 < SMP> if these source tarballs then use make or perl or ant or whatever to get their job done has nothing to with what the build system uses
21:50 < martman> Gentoo downloads all the deps and builds them first
21:50 < martman> there arent proballys
21:51 < SMP> there aren't what?
21:51 < martman> besides from some peopel problems portage is almost perfect
21:51 < martman> there arent problems, sorry about typos....
21:52 < SMP> I don't know if portage has problems or people have problems with portage - and I don't even care
21:52 < martman> meh, i just said gentoos way doesnt have problems. why did you change? what are the advantages? does it mean much at all?
21:53 < mnemoc> if you want to install 3 identically customed machines, how many times do you want to build it?
21:54 < martman> there not identical in anyway. some just shares some programs
21:54 < SMP> you have to understand to differenciate between infrastructure (what files to download, how to download, determine the order of packages to be built) and what the packages themselves do
21:55 < mnemoc> if you want to install linux in a old pentium, do you want to build it on the old pentium on in your 'groove' p4-2ghz?
21:55 < SMP> and we didn't 'change' anything - make is one way of doing things, shell is another
21:55 < SMP> it can be discussed which one is surperior, but that's pretty much moot
21:55 < martman> why did you switch from makefiles. what does the scripts let you that make doesnt?
21:56 < martman> there must be some reason for the switch
21:56 < SMP> WE DIDN'T SWITCH FROM make DAMNIT
21:56 < esden> re hi all
21:56 < mnemoc> rock IS NOT A BRANCH of gentoo
21:56 < martman> yeah, i got that awhile ago......what do the scripts do?
21:56 < martman> thats were the flags go?
21:57 < martman> so that passes extra optios to autoconfigure?
21:58 < mnemoc> rock can build almost every package in freshmeat just knowing the download location
21:58 < mnemoc> transparently
21:58 < martman> ok, great.
21:58 < SMP> the scripts let you configure your build ('set flags', but more powerful), download sources and do the build (unpack, run configure, make, make install, whatever)
21:58 < martman> what makes it 'more powerfull', more options?
21:58 < mnemoc> it's like a 'framework'
21:59 < mnemoc> centralization, speed, cleanness
22:00 < SMP> not just flags - things like which compiler(s) to use, what packages to build
22:00 < martman> so do these scrips play nicely with distgcc? something else in mind?
22:00 < mnemoc> we don't use distgcc
22:00 < SMP> they know nothing about distcc
22:01 < mnemoc> distcc :)
22:01 < martman> o, sorry....
22:01 < martman> i knew it looked alittle funny
22:01 < mnemoc> you don't win much splitting the build of one package
22:01 < martman> i know, im trying to get my desktop to do all the compile for my laptop but have the laptops envirnoment for libs
22:01 < mnemoc> you win building not-dependet pacakges in paralel
22:02 < martman> distcc lets you pick which ones can compile
22:03 < martman> what would be the rock linux way of pulling this off?
22:03 < SMP> see above
22:04 < martman> id like to avoid keeping a copy of the laptop on my desktop
22:04 < mnemoc> in rock you design a distro for that laptop, build it in your desktop, generate a CD and just install it on the lapton.... then you update the distro designed for your laptop on your desktop and then install updated .gems on the laptop
22:04 < martman> id want to keep the binaries but not a exact copy of the harddrive
22:04 < esden> mnemoc: why do you want to keep a copy of your laptop environment on the desktop?
22:04 < esden> im mean martman 
22:04 < esden> you want a update right?
22:05 < SMP> arrgh
22:05 < martman> yeah, i want to update. SMP pointed out that my p4 desktop could throw in p4 code for my p3 laptop
22:05 < martman> so bad libs
22:05 < martman> id liek to chroot into my laptop but us emy desktops gcc
22:06 < mnemoc> as i said you before, update-system is just a feature to update EXCLUSIVELY the local system
22:06 < SMP> can we please not start from the beginning
22:06 < martman> yeah, so i would want to run it one my laptop but have my desktop doing all the work
22:07 < mnemoc> read 12 lineas above
22:07 < esden> martman: so mount your laptop disk through nfs on your desktop
22:07 < SMP> arrrgh
22:07 < esden> if you really want to do such a ill thing
22:07 -!- SMP [~stefanp@80.65.41.2] has left #rocklinux ("arrgh")
22:07 < martman> we just went over how NFS would be very slow
22:08 < martman> dam, i scared away SMP
22:08 < esden> no you pissed him off
22:08 < mnemoc> if you want to do it stupidly you get stupid solutions
22:08 < esden> martman: create a package selection template for your laptop
22:08 < esden> and create an iso ... and update from it
22:09 < martman> o no, using the fastes computer to compile. WHERE WILL THE MADNESS END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:09 < mnemoc> rock is a DISTRIBUTION BUILD KIT, not a source bases distro
22:10 < esden> mnemoc: you are taking my words from my mouth
22:10 < mnemoc> you build the distros in your faster computer and THEN install the 'product' in the laptop, server, old-crappy-box, etc.
22:10 < mnemoc> esden: :)
22:11 < esden> you can use it like a source distribution ... but that is only a sideeffect
22:11 < martman> sideffect?
22:12 < mnemoc> yes... it's not the primary purpose of rock
22:12 < esden> and if you want to update then rebuild the laptop distro and create new iso and update the laptop fith the new binary iso
22:12 < esden> I have made such an update yesterday with my laptop ... stone is your friend
22:12 < esden> or better gasgui
22:13 < martman> meh, something to make it scale well isnt priority. i was wondering why i havnt heard much about this........
22:13 < martman> esden stone?
22:13 < mnemoc> stone is a app to manage rocklinux-BASED machines
22:13 < esden> martman: get the 2.0.0-rc1 iso and take a look
22:13 < martman> so it would do what i want?
22:13 < esden> then many of your questions will be resolved by itself
22:14 < esden> and read the rock linux book
22:14 < martman> the whole update and compiele only on desktop thung
22:14 < martman> why is it a iso if its not a distro? i tried this while agaon and just got a ncurses app
22:14 < esden> martman: my final word ... it is possible DOT
22:15 < mnemoc> martman: http://www.rocklinux.org/44.html <--- read this
22:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EABB35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:16 < martman> ill be back....
22:16 < mnemoc> or a more direct link: http://www.rocklinux.net/people/rene/rock-handbook/html/rock-handbook.html
22:16 < mnemoc> after reading 'what is ROCKLinux?'
22:17 < tcr> re all
22:17 < mnemoc> re tcr :)
22:18 * mnemoc needs a breath... 
22:19 < tcr> why?
22:20 -!- rammi [1000@216.236.217.176] has joined #rocklinux
22:21 < rammi> hi guys
22:21 < tcr> hi
22:21 < mnemoc> if you can read the last 2:20 hours of chan-logs
22:22 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
22:22 < rammi> i am loking at some screenshots of gnome 2.4.. its rocks
22:22 < rammi> http://home.zhwin.ch/~bosshrap/gnome-2.4-beta2-with-file-selector-patch.png
22:23 < rammi> open dialog is cool
22:23 -!- LocalHero [~chatzilla@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has joined #rocklinux
22:23 < LocalHero> Hi all
22:23 < rammi> hi
22:24 < mnemoc> hi LH
22:24 < esden> hi rammi 
22:24 < LocalHero> Still no luck with x11 forwarding over ssh. When i run for example xclock on a remote server. What package do i need to install ?
22:24 < mnemoc> tcr: start reading after that -> [20:49] -!- martman [~martman3@syr-24-59-91-80.twcny.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
22:24 < LocalHero> mnemoc,  hi :)
22:24 < rammi> esden: hi 
22:25 < mnemoc> esden: irclog needs a 'frontpage' :)
22:25 < mnemoc> (hi!!)
22:25 < esden> mnemoc: yes ... but I need to discuss it with clifford how correctly do it
22:26 < esden> this will probably have to wait till December (20c3)
22:27 < mnemoc> :(
22:27 -!- martman [~martman3@syr-24-59-91-80.twcny.rr.com] has quit ("Leaving")
22:27 < esden> I need something to cool down ... 
22:27 < mnemoc> to cool what?
22:27 < esden> my mood
22:28 < rammi> some music.. ? :)
22:29 < tcr> esden: let me guess, you forgot that star trek IV's comming?
22:30 < esden> tcr: O_o
22:31 < esden> mnemoc: /me has an idea how to make the irclog frontpage
22:32 -!- LocalHero [~chatzilla@i301-1.vildanden.afb.lu.se] has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.34 [Mozilla rv:1.5a/20030718]")
22:32 < esden> I will create it ASAP
22:33 < mnemoc> :)
22:34 * rammi is away: I'm busy
22:42 * rammi is back (gone 00:08:12)
22:42 < rammi> can someone tells my what is the gnome verison in rock rc1?
22:43 < tcr> 14 and 2
22:43 < rammi> 2.x.x ?
22:43 < tcr> 2.2
22:43 < rammi> ok.. tnx..
22:44 < rammi> i am now compiling 2.4_beta2... its very nice
22:53 < mnemoc> did u update rock or are u compiling it by hand?
22:54 < rammi> i am not a rock user yet. buy.. tnx. to rxr.. a will be. one day.. :)
22:55 < rammi> i am using slackware 9 and garnome-0.26.1
22:57 * rammi is away: dinner.. 
23:03 -!- SMP [~stefanp@80.65.41.2] has joined #rocklinux
23:03 < SMP> is it over?
23:05 < rammi> its at the begining. 5~6 packages ar complete.
23:05 < rammi> 500 MHz.. 128 RAM.
23:06 < tcr> SMP?
23:07 < SMP> 20:48|  (!) tcr ~tcr@pD9EA9119.dip.t-dialin.net has quit ["Ninety percent of everything is crap."]
23:07 < SMP> 20:49|  (!) martman [~martman3@syr-24-59-91-80.twcny.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
23:09 < tcr> SMP: Who's that martman?
23:10 * rammi is back (gone 00:13:11)
23:10 < SMP> you don't want to know
23:11 < tcr> SMP: But, tell me, why do _you_ leave the channel rather than ignoring him?
23:12 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has quit ("I like core dumps")
23:13 < SMP> because I can't strictly ignore those who answer
23:15 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
23:19 < tcr> Ahja
23:19 < mnemoc> SMP has a good side :=
23:20 * -> esden obviously too ;)
23:21 < esden> hmm ... mnemoc in a moment you will have a very rough irclog indexing
23:22 < mnemoc> :)
23:31 -!- christian_ [~christian@p50839DD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Client exiting")
23:32 -!- Nebu^saikano is now known as Nebu^traurig
23:33 < rammi> i invite my friend.. here.. his a bio fan of rock linux
23:33 < rammi> big
23:35 < esden> mnemoc: you have a dirty indexing now ;)
23:36 -!- n00kie is now known as nookie
23:38 < mnemoc> :| nice 'style'
23:38 < esden> I know ;)
23:39 < esden> is it better then before or should I remove it ;)
23:39 < mnemoc> keep it :(
23:40 < mnemoc> it's faster than plain index
23:40 < SMP> wtf are you talking about?
23:41 < mnemoc> http://www.rocklinux.net/people/esden/irclog/
23:42 < mnemoc> btw, martman give us his email for giving it to you... he needs you explain him everything again
23:43 -!- mrvek [~mrvek@apn-226-178.gprs.simobil.net] has joined #rocklinux
23:43 < rammi> desi mrva :)
23:43 < mrvek> haj
23:44 < mrvek> i mean Hi ;)
23:44 < mnemoc> haj
23:44 < rammi> :)
23:45 < mnemoc> haj, desi... wtf is that? :(
23:45 < mrvek> i'm wondering is here on chan that guy who started a new subproject 
23:45 < mrvek> router subdistro ...
23:45 < mnemoc> alessandro?
23:45 < mrvek> cisco like ...blabla ... sounds interesing ;)
23:45 < mrvek> no, the new guy ...
23:46 < mrvek> i've been posting a ping-pong response about helping him ... but email never arrived ;(
23:46 < mnemoc> the guy of the recient email to the list?
23:47 < mrvek> it's nisma ...
23:47 < mrvek> i took a peek in inbox ...
23:49 < mnemoc> /whowas nisma
23:49 -!- much [~much@p213.54.166.151.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux
23:49 < mrvek> fyi, mnemoc, "haj" and "desi" are slanged serbian ;) nothing more ;)
23:49 < mrvek> nothing less 
23:50 < mnemoc> serbian slang for what? hi?
23:50 < tcr> mrvek: Where was your mail addressed to? The mailinglist? 
23:50 < tcr> mnemoc: obviously, yes
23:50 < rammi> mnemoc: yes
23:50 < mrvek> it's that thread called: rock linux router distro
23:50 < mrvek> yeah tcr, rock-linux@rocklinux.org
23:50 < tcr> mnemoc: In swedish it'd be hej 
23:51 < mrvek> no posts are showing from my email ;(
23:51 < tcr> mrvek: Have you got some bounce message or whatever?
23:51 < mrvek> possibly ... but I still receive mailing list posts ...
23:52 < mrvek> I've tried re-activation for that email ... nothing so far ;(
23:52 < mnemoc> swedish: hej, serbian: haj <-- linguistic freakness :( 
23:52 < mrvek> crazy stuff ...
23:53 < mrvek> mnemoc: sometimes it's said hej also in serbian ;) hey, it's fscking slang ;)
23:53 < tcr> mrvek: send the reply to me (tcr at freebits dot de), and I'll forward it
23:53 < esden> ohh god ... guys ... you have really big problems ;)
23:54 < mrvek> esden: huge ones ;)
23:54 < mnemoc> ???
23:54 < mrvek> we are struggling with ghosts ;)
23:56 < mrvek> tcr: gone ...
23:57 < mnemoc> chile 2 - argentina 2 at argentina :D
23:58 < mrvek> heavenly ;) mnemoc, did u watched shaolin soccer? :P
23:58 < mnemoc> just the trailer
23:59 < mistik1> fotbul?
23:59 < mnemoc> yep
23:59 < mistik1> cool
23:59 < mrvek> u should ... it makes u sick of "fotbul" :P
23:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EABB35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
--- Log closed Sun Sep 07 00:00:00 2003