--- Log opened Mon Sep 29 00:00:12 2003
--- Day changed Mon Sep 29 2003
00:00 < daja77> well dunno if mine was build already, checking
00:00 < th>  [1] base/mine
00:00 < th> it builds ok in [0] and in [5] but fails in [1]
00:00 < daja77> no build is at stage 5, and 0 errors
00:00 < th> must be something special in my target
00:00 < th> *shiver*
00:01 < daja77> which?
00:01 < th> not in svn
00:01 < th> just a copy of server with explicit package-selection
00:02 < th> : undefined reference to `__libc_csu_init'
00:02 < th> /lib/libc.so.6: undefined reference to `_dl_lazy@GLIBC_2.1.1'
00:02 < th> ...
00:02 < daja77> O_o
00:02 < th> dietlibc... perhaps
00:02 < th> must be missing packages
00:03 < daja77> yepp could be
00:03 < th> but each [DEP] is available
00:04 < daja77> but the linker errors are related to glibc not dietlibc, no?
00:04 < th> dunno
00:04 < daja77> `_dl_lazy@GLIBC_2.1.1'
00:04 < daja77> 2.1.1?
00:05 < th> you should have a look at the .err
00:06 < daja77> hmm dunno, if i am to fix it, /me preparing to go to bed
00:09 < daja77> optimization bug?
00:10 < daja77> you made a cross build?
00:16 < th> no
00:16 < daja77> hmm, which optimization you tried on which machine?
00:17 < th> 486 on P4
00:17 < daja77> hmm could be optimization bug then
00:19 < daja77> think of it when you choose 486 on p4, the gcc that is used for your build, is optimized for 486 and is executed on a p4 
00:20 < th> so i should build this on a 486>
00:20 < th> so i should build this on a 486?
00:21 < daja77> yes if you have that much time, or leave out optimization in this case
00:21 < th> or should i stop selecting any optimization?
00:21 < daja77> no pentium-mmx is working fine
00:21 < th> ahh ok.
00:21 < th> i'll stick to that one
00:21 < daja77> if crossbuilding will be possible for a complete build this problem should vanish
00:22 < th> hehe
00:22 < th> of course
00:22 < daja77> but pentium-mmx will be overoptimized for real 486
00:22 < daja77> it will work for all pentium-mmx or later processors
00:23 < th> that's clear
00:23 < daja77> :)
00:26 < fake> re
00:26 < th> daja77: a mine-hotfix from cliff
00:26 < th> ...arrived per mail
00:26 < daja77> hehe
00:27 < daja77> hmm not in my inbox *sigh*
00:27 < daja77> from when?
00:27 < daja77> hi fake
00:27 < th> just now
00:27 < daja77> hmm k.
00:28 < th> forwarded
00:29 < daja77> hmm
00:29 < daja77> build/generic-2.0.0-rc2-x86-pentium-mmx-32-generic-expert/root/var/adm/logs/0-mine.log
00:29 < daja77> build/generic-2.0.0-rc2-x86-pentium-mmx-32-generic-expert/root/var/adm/logs/1-mine.log
00:29 < daja77> build/generic-2.0.0-rc2-x86-pentium-mmx-32-generic-expert/root/var/adm/logs/5-mine.log
00:29 < daja77> thx
00:30 < daja77> well it says, patch required for cross builds, seems that you are running a cross build (at least it looks like it in your log)
00:30 < th> yea the problem does not seem to exist in reference build
00:31 < th> daja77: definee "you are running a cross build"
00:31 < daja77> selected a checkbox cross-build in Config
00:32 < th> [ ]        This is a cross-build between architectures
00:32 < th> so i'm NOT doing a cross build
00:32 < daja77> ic
00:32 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
00:32 < th> and cliffs patch does not fix the problem
00:32 < th> *sigh*
00:32 < daja77> oh
00:33 < daja77> well optimization then perhaps
00:33 < th> hmm
00:33 < th> why does my log say "/local/rock2/trunk/build/default-2.0.0-rc2-x86-i486-32-teha/tools.cross/crosscc/../lib/gc
00:33 < th> c-lib/i486-pc-linux-gnu/3.2.3/"
00:33 < th> when i'm NOT cross building?
00:34 < daja77> yepp that's why I was asking you
00:35 < daja77> maybe some magic decided that a cross build is needed for your optimization
00:35 < daja77> but that's beyond my control :)
00:36 < th> i'm afraid i'd need to restart the whole build when i switch to p-mmx
00:36 < daja77> exactly
00:41 < th> rxr: still with us?
00:45 < rxr> yes - but now off to bed ...
00:45 < th> ok. i sent you a mail about failing kdebase...
00:45 < th> but...
00:45 < th> sleep tight
00:46 < rxr> I think you see the use of the pseudo-cross-compiler ...
00:46 < rxr> n8 too all
00:46 < daja77> O_o failing kdebase ...
00:46 < daja77> rxr: hehe
00:46 < daja77> n8 rxr 
00:46 < rxr> daja77: he is compiling with pam disabled ...
00:46 < daja77> :)
00:46 < th> pam disabled enables pseude-crosser?
00:47 < th> ahh
00:47 < th> shadow:shadow: usr/lib/libmisc.la
00:47 < th> pam provides a lib/libmisc.la ?
00:48 < th> shadow:shadow: lib/libmisc.so.0.0.0
00:48 < th> shadow:shadow: usr/lib/libmisc.a
00:48 < th> shadow:shadow: usr/lib/libmisc.la
00:48 < th> that's weird enough..
00:48 * daja77 pats on th's back and trying to say silently that his build is a mess and should better start again
00:48 * daja77 runs
00:51 < th> i did not get the one with the pseudo-cross-compiler
00:52 < daja77> kdebase error could be related to overoptimzation as well
00:52 < daja77> package builded fine some days ago here, and hasn't changed
00:53 < th> yea but have pam enabled?
00:53 < th> and kdebase failed due to missing /lib/libmisc.la which might come from pam
00:57 < th> in shadow.conf: libdir="$root/lib" this does not seem to move libmisc.la from /usr/lib to /lib. i think some magic moves it back... (install_wrapper?) 
00:57 < fake> hm, is there a nas-package?
01:00 < th> does libdir variable only specify path to .so files not to .a and .la?
01:00 -!- gila [~gila@cc16711-a.delfz1.gr.home.nl] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:25 -!- Zombi [~zombi@dsl-082-082-051-113.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
01:25 * daja77 off to bed
01:26 * Lorini too
01:26 < daja77> n8 Lorini 
01:26 < Lorini> n8 :)
01:28 < fake> hi Lorini 
01:28 < fake> aeh
01:28 < fake> n8
01:33 -!- Zombi [~zombi@dsl-082-082-051-113.arcor-ip.net] has left #rocklinux ("Client exiting")
01:42 -!- jvc [~jvc@co97886-a.almel1.ov.home.nl] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:43 < mnemoc> th: .{a,la} are forced to be at /usr/lib
01:43 < th> mnemoc: and why does kdebase search for them at /lib?
01:44 < th> 5-kdebase31.err:
01:44 < th> libtool: link: cannot find the library `/lib/libmisc.la'
01:44 < mnemoc> kdebase has to be fixed
01:45 < th> but it's only a pamless-kdebase problem?
01:45 < mnemoc> i think so
01:45 < mnemoc> kdebase's Makefile must be 'if-then-else' it
01:47 < th> i see
01:47 < mnemoc> i guess /lib/libmisc.la is staticly defined somewhere
01:48 < th> that's too ad
01:48 < th> s//b/
01:48 < th> so for now kdebase requires pam
01:50 < mnemoc> cd src.kdebase.*/R.src/kdebase*; grep 'libmisc.la' * 
01:51 < th> nothin'
01:51 < mnemoc> grep -r?
01:52 < th> nothin'
01:53 < mnemoc> ??
01:53 < th> there is no 'libmisc.la' in whole kdebase sources
01:54 < th> anyways i'll quickfix for now
01:54 < mnemoc> can you rebuild it with xtrace enabled and paste (/query) the tail -40 of ERROR-LOG?
01:54 < mnemoc> ok
01:55 < th> wrt the libtool call that happens in kdebase-build it really depends on pam
01:56 < th> at least when configured that way
01:58 < mnemoc> is /lib/libmisc.la reference inside libtool or ltmain?
01:59 < th> libtool: link: cannot find the library `/lib/libmisc.la'
02:00 < th> /bin/sh ../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc-3  -ansi -W -Wall -pedantic -Wshadow -Wpointe
02:00 < th> r-arith -Wmissing-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -DNDEBUG -
02:00 < th> O2   -D_GNU_SOURCE   -o kcheckpass  kcheckpass.o checkpass_etcpasswd.o checkpass_pam.o ch
02:00 < th> eckpass_shadow.o checkpass_osfc2passwd.o checkpass_aix.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/opt/qt31/lib
02:00 < th>  -L/opt/kde31/lib  -lkdefakes -lcrypt -lshadow   
02:00 < th> the error follows the call. of course
02:02 < th> interested in whole .err file?
02:05 < mnemoc> por /query
02:05 < th> ouhm
02:05 < th> really?
02:05 < mnemoc> al menos uns 10 lineas antes del error del libtool
02:05 < mnemoc> oops
02:05 < mnemoc> sorry
02:06 < th> ahh
02:06 < mnemoc> at least 10 lines before libtool's errrr
02:06 < th> i think i got it
02:06 < mnemoc> too many different windows :(
02:06 < mnemoc> lang-switch is hard this days
03:10 < A-Tui> bitstream-vera-fonts should be built after X-System?
03:10 < A-Tui> or before it?
03:11 < mnemoc> see the deps on the cache file ;)
03:13 < A-Tui> well, the deps file don't show the X-System to be needed, but bitstream fails beouse it tries to to do a 'cp' in /usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts
03:13 -!- Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: SMP
03:14 -!- SMP_ [~stefanp@vanessa.wronline.net] has joined #rocklinux
03:19 -!- Netsplit over, joins: SMP
03:19 -!- SMP [~stefanp@80.65.41.2] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
03:42 -!- A-Tui [~Aitor@cable65a154.usuarios.retecal.es] has quit ("I like core dumps")
04:08 < fake> hrmpf.
04:08 < fake> domainfactory had the same idea i had...
04:08 < fake> https://ssl.domainfactory.de/kunde/uebersicht.php
04:11 < fake> evolution seems to hate me, too... *sigh*
04:11 < fake> i see, this is going to be one of *those* days
04:44 < fake> ...
04:47 < mnemoc> is it getting better?
05:02 < fake> well, the site was usable for a change
05:02 < fake> and webalizer seems to work, too
05:03 < fake> i could even get the site transition done before 8:00 - with no sleep at all.
05:11 < mnemoc> congrats ;)
05:15 < mnemoc> go for it
05:31 < mnemoc> my head is gooing to explote :(
05:39 < fake> what's up?
05:46 < mnemoc> big headache, too much work and i broke my 'thing' for the bruxism :(
05:47 < fake> huh?
05:47 < fake> wtf is 'bruxism' ?
05:48 < mnemoc> http://www.austindental.com/more/bruxism.shtml
05:50 < mnemoc> acording to that webpage my thing is called 'nightguard' ;)
05:50 < fake> ah
05:50 < fake> some kind of plastic to keep you from chewing on your own teeth?
05:51 < mnemoc> yep :)
05:51 < mnemoc> i broke it last night 
05:51 < fake> hey, now that i see that pic, i had such a thing once, too
05:52 < fake> but it was intended to keep my teeth where they are...
05:52 < fake> after a ... aeh..unfall.. accident
05:52 < fake> so you're going to stay up and visit the dentist first thing this morning, hm?
05:53 < mnemoc> did they keep where they were?
05:53 < mnemoc> friday :(
05:53 < fake> urgh
05:53 < fake> guess you'll need ephedrine for a period that long
05:54 < mnemoc> i'll buy it this morning :)
05:55 < mnemoc> if i don't cut my head off first
05:57 < fake> aspirin, ibuprofen, paracetamol... and if that doesn't help, alcohol, whatever...
06:14 < fake> wow... site transition seems ok so far
06:15 < mnemoc> 7am then?
06:16 < fake> seems more like 6:30
06:17 < mnemoc> =)
06:20 < fake> wee.
06:20 < fake> mnemoc: i hope your next nightguard has extra-strength - so i can go to bed without a 'schlechtes gewissen'
06:22 < fake> like now 
06:22 < fake> gn8!
06:22 < mnemoc> :)
06:22 < mnemoc> gn8 fake 
06:24 < mnemoc> 1:31 minutes before 'expected time', enjoy them
07:04 < blindcoder> moin moin
07:26 < christian_> moin moin
08:30 -!- Mike1 [~mike@ip73-62.ct.co.cr] has joined #rocklinux
08:30 < Mike1> moin
08:30 < blindcoder> moin moin
08:31 < Mike1> hi blindy
08:34 * blindcoder now monitoring his hard disk temperature with hddtemp :)
08:34 * Mike1 pokes owl with a stick
08:34 < blindcoder> owl? who left the window open?
08:35 < Mike1> :)
08:41 < rxr> re
08:41 < rxr> moint Mike1 
08:42 < rxr> moin christian_ 
08:43 < Mike1> Ren.. :)
08:43 < blindcoder> moin rxr
08:47 * Mike1 making coffee..
08:52 -!- DeElsasser [~DeElsasse@ANancy-110-1-9-39.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #rocklinux
08:53 < Mike1> ok back to work cu
08:53 -!- Mike1 [~mike@ip73-62.ct.co.cr] has left #rocklinux ("Client Exiting")
08:53 < DeElsasser> moin
09:04 < blindcoder> is add_flist b0rkon? or am I just too stupid to use it?
09:57 < Lorini> moin
09:57 < fake> mornin' ...
09:57 < blindcoder> moin moin
09:59 < Lorini> i hate sundays.. and i hate, when they're gone
09:59 < blindcoder> why?
09:59 < Lorini> very good question
09:59 < Lorini> i don't know
09:59 < Lorini> just a feeling
10:00 < blindcoder> hmm...
10:00 < blindcoder> I know why I hate them, because I always have to be angry at Melanie, my dance-partner
10:01 < Lorini> why?
10:01 < blindcoder> rxr: why is $root empty when doing '/scripts/Build-Pkg pkg' ?
10:02 < fake> empty $root = /
10:02 < blindcoder> Lorini: because we're now doing the GoldStar-lessons, and already did the Gold-lessons, and she's been at a dance-party on Sundays THREE TIMES!
10:02 < fake> see option -root
10:02 < blindcoder> fake: echo $root --> '\n'
10:02 < fake> yeah
10:03 < blindcoder> d'ouh
10:03 < fake> --root= means '/'
10:03 < Lorini> GoldStar, wow
10:03 < blindcoder> so I have to do a myroot=${root:-/} or what?
10:03 < fake> (could you think of a better interpretion ? )
10:03 < fake> no, just say ./scripts/Build-Pkg -root /my/root
10:03 < blindcoder> Lorini: fyeah, and since she's never at a dance-party although she said she will be...
10:04 < fake> Build-Target calls Build-Pkg with the right $root
10:04 < blindcoder> fake: well, that's wrong behaviour imo
10:04 < blindcoder> if it's empty, it should be set directly to /, but okay, now I know and I'll handle
10:04 < fake> what would you hardcode?
10:05 < fake> i think not-passes -root says: option not set ...
10:05 < fake> s,passes,passed,
10:05 < blindcoder> yes, but it needs to be set so that var_append "--with-db=$root$prefix/share/hddtemp/hddtemp.db" works
10:06 < blindcoder> var_append extraconfopt " " \1
10:08 < blindcoder> well, that's obviously wrong
10:09 < blindcoder> mkdir -vp $root$prefix/share/hddtemp/
10:09 < blindcoder> that's what I meant
10:10 < fake> centericq 4.9.6 is out
10:10 < blindcoder> with that, it would get rock-src/src.$id/hddtemp-0.3-beta8/usr/share/hddtemp
10:10 < blindcoder> which is wrong
10:10 * blindcoder using licq
10:11 < fake> blindcoder: i understand your problem, but am unable to point you to a quick solution, unfortunately.
10:11 < fake> but that problem should have been solved before and documented in some package...
10:11 < blindcoder> I now just used myroot=${root:-/} and it works :)
10:12 < fake> maye a grep -r for $prefix - which is only userful with a $root set
10:13 < blindcoder> hmm
10:13 < fake> btw, 2.6.0-test6 is very nice
10:13 < blindcoder> [ ! -f "$root/$prefix/lib/libxfce4util.so.1" ]
10:13 < blindcoder> I haven't tried 2.6 yet
10:13 < fake> $root/$prefix sounds more reasonable to me
10:13 < blindcoder> that works also
10:13 < fake> as //$prefix doesn't work
10:13 < fake> aeh
10:14 < fake> will work, too
10:14 < blindcoder> yes...
10:14 < blindcoder> I'll use that then
10:14 < fake> and it doesn't cost the cputime to see wether $root is empty ;)
10:15 < blindcoder> jepp :)
10:15 < fake> 2.6.0-test6 fixed all the fscked up bluetooth stuff in -test5, which i was very unhappy about, and started using 2.4.22-mh1 again
10:15 < blindcoder> no bluetooth around here :)
10:15 < fake> now - besides the nvidia kernel module - all works fine.
10:15 < blindcoder> hmm.. wasn't there a howto somewhere on how to build hte nvidia module for 2.6?
10:16 < blindcoder> I thought I saw it once
10:16 < blindcoder> okay, works, /me now sending new patch
10:16 < fake> i tried it ;)
10:17 < fake> but that was... well, experimental.
10:17 < fake> (nothing new with the nvidia kernel module, though *g*)
10:19 < blindcoder> hehe
10:19 < blindcoder> the new one finally has good xinerama support
10:19 < blindcoder> now the two screen really are two seperate ones, and not one big 2560x1024 one :)
10:20 < fake> wow
10:23 < blindcoder> so I can finally make real, good use of my two monitors :-)
10:23 < blindcoder> if only the games would have Xinerama support now >_<
10:24 < [anders]_> moin
10:24 -!- [anders]_ is now known as [anders]
10:24 < blindcoder> moin moin [anders] 
10:24 < fake> hi [anders] 
10:24 < [anders]> lo blindcoder, fake
10:24 * [anders] is tired..
10:25 < blindcoder> bzflag is about the only game I know which can be played better if you have three monitors :)
10:25 < fake> doom
10:25 < fake> you could run 3 instances with rotated view
10:25 < fake> communicating the displacement over network
10:25 < fake> (IPX, of course ;)
10:26 < blindcoder> sweet :)
10:27 * fake away
10:33 < netrunner> moin
10:33 < blindcoder> moin moin
10:33 < netrunner> can anybody recommend a health insurance for students (in by)
10:37 < blindcoder> no, I'm no insurance pro, ask your inbox :)
10:43 < SMP_> netrunner: BY? what are you doing in Belarus? ;)
10:47 < netrunner> SMP: did I say that's a countrycode? :)
10:50 -!- SMP_ is now known as SMP
10:52 -!- DeElsasser [~DeElsasse@ANancy-110-1-9-39.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ("Client exiting")
10:52 < th> morning
10:52 < blindcoder> moin moin
10:56 * blindcoder --> lunch
10:58 < th> anyone noticed problems with x11/imagemagick in stage [7]?
10:58 < th> it just hangs
10:58 < th> == 05:25:38 =[7]=> Building x11/imagemagick [5.5.7-10 2.0.0-rc2].
10:58 < th> not finished till now
10:59 < th> checking for gs PDF writing device... 
10:59 < th> in configure
11:00 < th> there it hangs
11:01 * daja77 waves
11:03 < th> daja77: tell me about it
11:03 < daja77> about what
11:04 < th> well
11:04 < th> i asked weather anyone notices x11/imagemagick in stage [7] problems
11:04 < th> and you waved
11:04 < daja77> yes i waved to greet you
11:05 < th> ah ok ;)
11:05 < daja77> i haven't noticed cos my build hasn't reached stage 7 yet
11:05 < th> btw mine problems resist on p-mmx
11:05 < daja77> 980 builds total, 475 completed fine, 7 with errors.
11:05 < th> ok. off for breakfast
11:05 < daja77> the usual suspects btw
11:06 * daja77 off too, goin to work
11:16 -!- hopelessOwl [~owl@62.245.251.33] has joined #rocklinux
11:16 < hopelessOwl> moin
11:16 -!- kasc [~kasc@dsl-082-082-081-210.arcor-ip.net] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:23 -!- kasc [~kasc@dsl-082-082-081-080.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:29 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@p3EE1E248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
11:29 < jsaw> re
11:30 < jsaw> aaahhh: Gdk-ERROR **: X connection to localhost:10.0 broken (exp ..
11:30 < jsaw> (while building libglade10)
11:31 < th> re
11:32 < jsaw> hi th
11:36 < blindcoder> moin owl, welcome back :)
11:37 -!- clifford_away is now known as clifford
11:37 < blindcoder> moin clifford
11:37 < clifford> moin.
11:37 < th> moin clifford
12:00 -!- scythe_ [firewall-u@cerberus.dunaferr.hu] has joined #rocklinux
12:00 < scythe_> hi
12:08 < hopelessOwl> hi clifford 
12:09 < blindcoder> [ insert obligatory comment here ]
12:09 < clifford> hi th, scythe_, hopelessOwl and blindcoder ...
12:12 < blindcoder> strange feeling, leaving your workplace after 4 years...
12:17 < th> can i enforce g++-3 instead of gcc-3 for a package?
12:17 < th> for linking
12:18 < th> the package sets CC=g++-3 in makefile.
12:19 < th> but gcc-3 is used
12:20 < jsaw> 2.6.0-test6: <akpm@osdl.org> [PATCH] mark devfs obsolete
12:20 < blindcoder> hrm?
12:20 < daja77> btw we still have test4 in rock
12:21 < blindcoder> welll, right now I'm perfectly fine with 2.4.21
12:24 < th> is CC the analogue to CXX as gcc to g++?
12:25 < jsaw> th: do you see any problems with using gcc and not g++ for linking?
12:26 < th> jsaw: i could send you an error log. in there i suspect gcc instead of g++ might be the problem
12:26 < th> jsaw: your mail addr?
12:27 < jsaw> query me
12:27 < scythe_> have 2 go, bye...
12:27 -!- scythe_ [firewall-u@cerberus.dunaferr.hu] has left #rocklinux ("run out of coffee")
12:52 < fake> re
12:53 < Lorini> re fake
12:53 < fake> hi Lorini 
12:56 < daja77> moin fake
12:56 < fake> heyho speedy gonzales
12:57 < daja77> ahem ...
12:58 < Lorini> :)
13:00 -!- kasc_ [~kasc@dsl-082-082-080-202.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:05 -!- kasc [~kasc@dsl-082-082-081-080.arcor-ip.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:09 < daja77> anybody with some knowledge how to put cvs urls in desc files here?
13:11 < jsaw> grep cvs:// package/*/*/*.desc
13:12 < daja77> thx
13:12 < th> hmmm is there a problem with time.fu-berlin.de ?
13:20 * fake -> away
13:24 < th> oh oh. last perl patch seems to break vim
13:26 < christian_> moin :) 
13:43 -!- daja77 [[joArasIwL@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
13:51 -!- daja77|work [~daja77|wo@153.96.44.132] has joined #rocklinux
13:57 < Lorini> re
13:57 < daja77|work> wb Lorini
13:58 < Lorini> äh no, i wanted to say wb to you :)
13:58 < Lorini> maybe i should have said "wb"
13:58 < daja77|work> hehe :)
14:05 -!- Nebukadneza [~daddel9@dsl-082-082-076-125.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:14 -!- daja77 [[rJAxmIWdl@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #rocklinux
14:16 < Lorini> wb daja ;)
14:17 < daja77> :)
14:17 * daja77|work is not needed anymore
14:17 -!- daja77|work [~daja77|wo@153.96.44.132] has quit ("dying happily")
14:20 -!- Lorini_ [~Lorini@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has joined #RockLinux
14:28 -!- Lorini [~blah@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has quit ("Ich bin doch der Liebling der Götter..")
14:30 -!- Lorini_ is now known as Lorini
14:39 < fake> Artowrk
14:39 < fake> Artwork, even
14:39 < Lorini> jop
14:39 < daja77> hm?
14:39 < fake> Oswald Henke rulez.
14:39 < Lorini> my quit msg
14:40 < daja77> hehe that reminded me of asterix ...
14:40 < Lorini> lol
14:40 < fake> Wo bleibt der Morgen, wo das Licht...
14:40 < Lorini> but now its a new msg ;)
14:40 < daja77> hehe show us
14:40 < Lorini> nah, its my old msg
14:41 -!- Lorini [~Lorini@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has left #RockLinux ("Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell.")
14:41 -!- Lorini [~Lorini@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has joined #RockLinux
14:41 < daja77> :)
14:41 < daja77> the old one
14:41 < Lorini> jepp
14:41 * fake angry at debian
14:42 < daja77> :)
14:42 < blindcoder> who is Oswald Henke?
14:42 < fake> they updated _something_ and now run-parts is broken - you can imagine what that means.
14:42 < blindcoder> I know someone with name Henke, and hee always calls with the most stupid problems...
14:42 < hopelessOwl> saenger of goethes erben
14:42 < fake> Oswald Henke is an artitst, of goethes erben fame
14:42 < fake> but he also does lots of side-projects
14:42 < blindcoder> okay, so I don't _have_ to know that name...
14:43 < fake> well, you should.
14:43 < Lorini> *g*
14:43 < Lorini> lets say: there are people who do..
14:44 < fake> Wolfgang Heppner and Oswald Henke performing "Glasgarten" si wonderful
14:44 < Lorini> mhm
14:45 < blindcoder> hmm... should I go home now, or should I wait the remaining 15 minutes?
14:45 < daja77> go home
14:45 < blindcoder> sounds reasonable :)
14:46 < Lorini> stay
14:46 < Lorini> *g*
14:46 < daja77> hmm Lorini likes seeing ppl work
14:46 < Lorini> of course
14:49 < rolla> re
14:49 < daja77> wb rolla 
14:49 * netrunner is utterly bored.
14:49 < daja77> go shopping!
14:49 < daja77> :)
14:49 * fake brabbling and cursing, often using the word "debian"
14:50 < daja77> debilian ...
14:50 * Lorini singing and laughing
14:50 < daja77> yeah sing for us
14:51 < hopelessOwl> GOD!!!!!! havent ever seen such dumb brainless people like in saturn market!!!!
14:51 < Lorini> ahm no.. daja ;)
14:51 * fake overly amused by the fact that he is still alive
14:51 < fake> hopelessOwl: what's vroken?
14:51 < fake> s,v,b,
14:51 < daja77> Lorini: why
14:52 < Lorini> daja: guess why
14:52 * fake having a anti-debian-cigarette
14:52 < daja77> d'oh ok, should think before typing
14:52 < netrunner> can anyone borrow me an evc(f) to vga(m) adapter?
14:53 < hopelessOwl> fake: broken? nothing. i just ordered a flash-cable... and those assholes don't know if ordered, what it is doing, what a flash-cable is (had to explain that to them) and who did the order...
14:53 < th> what is a flash cable?
14:54 < hopelessOwl> th: *kick* a datacable which is just designed to update firmware and/or unlock a mobile 
14:54 < th> ahh i see
14:55 < th> i'd never buy that at saturn ;)
14:55 < daja77> th would go to vobis
14:55 * daja77 runs away
14:55 < th> hehe exactly ;)
14:55 < hopelessOwl> th: why?
14:55 < netrunner> it smells like vobis, has daja77 recently been here?
14:56 < th> hopelessOwl: because they are incompetent there
14:56 * daja77 sniffes after netrunner 
14:56 < Lorini> lol
14:58 < hopelessOwl> yes, sure... but i just ordered it... and i know what exactly i want... normally it shouldn't be a problem to order a cable? to type in a pc how the cable is called, search for it and click "order"? 
14:58 < th> you name it! so why won't you do it yourself
14:59 < hopelessOwl> because i don't have connections to people selling it (and i'm not buying stuff online)
14:59 < th> google could help you establishing the connection 
15:00 < th> not buying stuff online...
15:00 < th> hmmm
15:00 < th> i couldn't live without that
15:00 * daja77 neither
15:00 < hopelessOwl> hehe. i would die with selling stuff online... maybe i'm just too paranoid or so... 
15:01 < daja77> yepp paranoid is the word i was searching for
15:01 < hopelessOwl> why?
15:01 * fake could have ordered it
15:02 < hopelessOwl> nah, thx, fake. too late ;p
15:04 < fake> these debianists.. now they silently fixed what they broke yesterday...
15:04 < fake> *shakes head*
15:04 < fake> and i had to drive 30 km to do one apt-get dist-upgrade
15:04 < fake> just because the default route wasn't set correctly...
15:04 < fake> *sigh*
15:05 < hopelessOwl> haeh?
15:05 < daja77> fake: don't complain, they are always stable and they are always the best
15:06 * fake activates the wheelchair jammer
15:06 < fake> hehehe
15:07 < daja77> fake: i don't get, have you never experienced debian's god like existence
15:09 < hopelessOwl> daja77: *kick*
15:09 < daja77> why
15:09 < daja77> hey that's what they are telling me
15:09 < hopelessOwl> then they're fscking liars
15:10 < daja77> sure
15:10 < rolla> daja77: debian is useless
15:10 < hopelessOwl> .oO(if debian = godlike, then /me is called "jesus")
15:10 * fake is jesus
15:10 < daja77> rolla: i know, that's why I am here and not in #debian
15:10 < hopelessOwl> fake: where are you're "sandalen"?
15:11 < fake> hopelessOwl: actually, jesus wore no shoes.
15:11 < daja77> hehe aber gras in der tasche ...
15:11 < hopelessOwl> hm. k.
15:11 < hopelessOwl> daja77: *lol*
15:11 < fake> *g*
15:13 * fake driving home again
15:14 < fake> bbl
15:14 < hopelessOwl> bye fake *waves*
15:14 < Lorini> sounds funny..
15:14 < daja77> bye fake 
15:28 * netrunner testing different themes in irssi
15:28 * daja77 producing patches for rtai
15:29 < netrunner>  .o( about the best thing to do atm )
15:31 * netrunner counts his last hour at work today
15:31 < netrunner> hm .. foxmask looks ok
15:36 < fake> re.
15:36 < fake> i like that route...
15:36 < fake> pacing through the altmuehltal and the surrounding forrests
15:36 < fake> (with eisregen at full volume)
15:37 < daja77> and you call me speedy ...
15:37 < fake> daja77: i didn't go faster than 130 km/h, i know your tank can reach 145 ;)
15:38 < daja77> hehe even 165 ...
15:38 < fake> see?
15:39 -!- blindcod1r [blindcoder@pD9E4FE8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:39 -!- blindcoder [blindcoder@pD9E4F3C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Nick collision from services.)
15:39 -!- Lorini_ [~Lorini@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has joined #RockLinux
15:39 < daja77> but i know that you weren't that fast with it, and it is no fun doin it for more than some minutes anyway
15:39 -!- blindcod1r is now known as blindcoder
15:39 -!- clifford [~clifford@213-229-1-138.sdsl-line.inode.at] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:39 -!- Lorini [~Lorini@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has quit (Nick collision from services.)
15:39 -!- Lorini_ is now known as Lorini
15:40 < daja77> oh quit time
15:40 < netrunner> my gf recently woke up while we were driving home from df and paniced because her first looks hit the tachometer :)
15:40 < daja77> well but i guess you have more than 85 ps
15:40 < netrunner> i then had to promise not to go faster than 200 in curves :)
15:41 < fake> the worst are mac users thaht drive bmw's...
15:41 < netrunner> daja77: well, in my car you cannot sleep when I touch the 200 :)
15:41 < netrunner> fake: they are only used to one pedal?
15:46 -!- tsa [~sjaenick@quetrupillan.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE] has joined #rocklinux
15:46 < tsa> hi all
15:46 < hopelessOwl> hi tsa 
15:46 < fake> hi tsa!
15:46 < hopelessOwl> why mac-users, driving bmw?
15:47 < tsa> http://www.golem.de/0309/27657.html
15:47 < tsa> hehe
15:49 < netrunner> hm ... the paragui patch I sent upstream is the first message since half a year on the -dev mailinglist :/
15:49 < daja77> lol @ tsa
16:11 < mnemoc> wireless drums communications, Inc.
16:12 < daja77> works only with windows *ggg*
16:23 < netrunner> daja77: maybe I can drum your head to make you hit the keys, isn't that similar? :)
16:25 < daja77> no
16:27 < netrunner> daja77: ah, isn't really far distance, let's see ... If I hit you with a sniper gun .. would you .. ? ;)
16:27 < rolla> fake: is something wrong with driving BMW's ?
16:27 < daja77> ...
16:28 < netrunner> ah, already 278 packages compiled and 1 error :)
16:28 < fake> rolla: no, but there's definitely something wrong with using mac os < 10
16:29 < rolla> fake: true
16:29 < rolla> OSX is nice :)
16:29 < daja77> don't tell rxr
16:29 < rolla> netrunner: you drive a BMW?
16:34 < daja77> rolla: how many of them do you have?
16:35 < netrunner> rolla: sometimes 
16:36 < rolla> parents car?
16:46 * fake just switched to Maildir-based mail delivery
16:48 < hopelessOwl> <- going home
16:48 < hopelessOwl> bye
16:48 -!- hopelessOwl [~owl@62.245.251.33] has quit ("train")
16:48 -!- scoopexH [~marc@td9091f9a.adsl.terralink.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:50 < tsa> fake: uhm..why?
16:50 < tsa> and with which LDA?
16:52 < fake> LDA?
16:52 < fake> Local ...
16:52 < tsa> local delivery agent
16:52 < fake> postfix -> procmail
16:52 < tsa> ah
16:52 < tsa> hm..
16:52 < tsa> use maildrop ;)
16:52 < fake> yeah?
16:52 < fake> i saw it flying by on google
16:52 < fake> but procmail works fine thus far...?
16:56 < tsa> have you ever had a look at the procmail source?
16:57 < fake> .... no ...?
16:57 < tsa> hehe
16:58 < tsa> unmaintainable code.
16:58 < blindcoder> well, we don't have to maintain it, do we?
16:58 < tsa> indeed. 
16:58 < daja77> blindcoder: you'll never know
16:58 < blindcoder> daja77: as long as it compiles and works here, I'm fine :)
17:00 < daja77> hehe
17:00 < tsa> maildrop has several advantages over procmail
17:00 < tsa> groups.google.com - see message-id <vita-brevis-breviter-in-brevi-finietur-mors-venit-velociter-quae-neminem-veretur-87isruso0t.fsf@gothgoose.net>
17:01 < tsa> blindcoder: you probably won't be fine if it starts losing your mail.
17:03 < blindcoder> tsa: well, it didn't yet
17:03 < blindcoder> even when it went into state D and I had to reset my machine
17:03 < blindcoder> the mails still were in the spool
17:03 * netrunner going home soon :)
17:04 * blindcoder already at home :)
17:05 < fake> tsa: i'll have a look at it, thanks
17:05 < fake> .oO( will i have to rewrite all that patterns ? )
17:07 * blindcoder --> coffee
17:10 * netrunner home, now.
17:13 < tsa> fake: yes, sure - but ~/.mailfilter syntax is quite easy
17:15 * fake compiling
17:16 < fake> good thing i converted my old mbox first ;)
17:18 < fake> ARGH
17:18 < fake> I HATE IT
17:18 < fake> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
17:25 < tsa> hehe
17:25 < tsa> feierabend!
17:25 < tsa> cu.
17:25 -!- tsa [~sjaenick@quetrupillan.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE] has quit ("Client Exiting")
17:39 < rxr> re
17:40 < daja77> wb rxr
18:01 < rxr> ji daja77 
18:01 < rxr> our ML grows too fast ...
18:02 < daja77> ack
18:02 < daja77> this sucks, two patches ready need some testing and have to wait for ages here
18:07 < rxr> wait for ages here, for what?
18:08 < daja77> downloads
18:08 < daja77> slow conn
18:10 < daja77> downloading patches via cvs now works btw
18:18 * netrunner @home, hungry.
18:18 * daja77 just got a picture of a really disgusting meal
18:23 < rolla> ?
18:23 < daja77> do you really wann know it
18:25 < netrunner> nice, just found a W32/Gibe-F in my =spam
18:26 < daja77> rolla: btw how do you liked f1 in usa?
18:28 * daja77 now doin build test
18:30 < daja77> 980 builds total, 565 completed fine, 9 with errors.
18:30 < rolla> daja77: 
18:30 < daja77> ?
18:31 < rolla> daja77: I find it sicking how ms can get away with anything
18:31 < daja77> what do you mean
18:31 < rolla> he passed under yellow 
18:31 < rolla> no penlty
18:31 < rolla> and german press hail him as a bloody hero
18:31 < rolla> that and his rain tyres were bloody slicks 
18:31 < rolla> again no penlty
18:31 < daja77> i don't like him, you know
18:32 < rolla> FIA is ferreai lap dohgb
18:32 < rolla> s/dohgb/dog/
18:32 < rolla> that man has cheated his way to atleast 3 of his 6 titles
18:32 < daja77> they gave penalties to drivers who were before him
18:32 < rolla> yes
18:33 < rolla> jpm got one for causing accedent but that was a more questionable one than if they gave one to MS
18:33 < rolla> daily Bild is full of crap 
18:33 < daja77> it has ever been
18:34 < rolla> oh well I have lost intrest in the sport
18:34 < daja77> you see
18:34 < rolla> until MS either dies or quits
18:35 < daja77> just watched a few laps by accident
18:35 < rolla> I really like the sport as a whole
18:35 < rolla> but ferraei it making a joke of the sport
18:35 < daja77> and the german tv is hailing him as well, that guy who is the german hero without paying taxes here and stuff
18:36 < rolla> RTL
18:36 < daja77> yepp crap station
18:36 < rolla> they pay him big money to only talk to them
18:36 < rolla> same for his brother
18:36 < daja77> yes and they are are talking bullshit the whole time
18:37 < rolla> not they we would hear it here in the states since it is on RTL
18:37 < daja77> good for you
18:38 < rolla> oh well maybe some one will push him off the track at suzuka like he has done to hill and vellinue
18:42 -!- iBook [~martin@pD9E7BBD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:43 < rxr> hi rolla 
18:43 < rxr> iBook: ?!?! martin?
18:43 < daja77> hehe
18:43 < rolla> hallo rxr
18:43 < rxr> how are you, over there?
18:44 < rolla> doing okay
18:44 < rolla> I am working on setting up my new mail server :)
18:44 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@p50802891.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
18:45 < daja77> rolla: rock based?
18:45 < rolla> :)
18:47 < rolla> rxr how are you on your side of the pond?
18:50 < rxr> oh - well too - first day at university for the new turn today ...
18:51 * rxr is shorlty away obtaining some food ...
18:51 -!- netrunner [~andreas@p508023B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:54 < iBook> rxr: yes :-)
18:56 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
18:58 < daja77> hmm we'll see when he changes to netwalker
19:00 * netrunner jumps high into the air and lands with a mortal kick on daja77 
19:00 < netrunner> has anybody seen that science report yesterday on n24?
19:02 * daja77 off goin home
19:02 < daja77> sending patches tomorrow
19:06 < rxr> netrunner: nope - not /me ...
19:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EABAD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:17 < rxr> iBook: does (e.g.) http://www.falk-huebner.de/biographie.html now render better in thsi crippled IE ?
19:19 < iBook> rxr: you have mail ...
19:21 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M1211P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
19:42 -!- christian__ [~christian@p5083953A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:53 < iBook> rxr: ups, is the screenshot okay or have you change some things?
20:04 -!- christian_ [~christian@pD9E39B11.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:35 -!- RaphaelL [~raphael@213.162.66.71] has joined #rocklinux
20:40 < tcr> moin all
20:56 < jsaw> re
21:04 -!- dreamind [dreamind@IP-213157009242.dialin.heagmedianet.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:11 < iBook> gn8 all
21:13 -!- ripclaw [~ripclaw@p508939ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:14 < tcr> gn8 iBook
21:15 < tcr> re jsaw; hi dreamind and ripclaw
21:15 < dreamind> hi tcr+
21:17 < ripclaw> hi all hi tcr
21:17 < jsaw> hi tcr
21:17 < jsaw> hi all
21:18 < tcr> Still scaringly quiet in here...
21:19 < iBook> gn8 tcr
21:19 -!- iBook [~martin@pD9E7BBD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #rocklinux ("bye bye")
21:19 * jsaw is fixing gnome packages
21:19 < ripclaw> yeah. but i`m just working offline over a bunch of lists from silflex.com
21:20 * ripclaw waits for the server to finish installing rock
21:22 < ripclaw> yip. cvs update of openbsd done.
21:23 * ripclaw <-- is bored
21:25 * tcr is looking for a dictionary tool like Babylon(R) for Windowze(TM)
21:25 < ripclaw> www.omnigroup.com omnidict ?
21:27 < tcr> Yes, but I'm searching for something like that for Linux
21:27 < tcr> Babylon is some proprietary programm for windows (I'm not searching a tool for windows)
21:28 < ripclaw> look at the source stuff of omnigroup - you can compile it with gnustep
21:29 < ripclaw> under linux
21:31 < tcr> I don't want thousands of gui tool kits installed on my machine... but there're some helpful links to 3rd party software at dict.org
21:43 < RaphaelL> by the way... is rc2 already tagged?
21:45 < tcr> Not that I know of
21:46 -!- ripclaw_ [~ripclaw@p508939ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
21:46 < RaphaelL> ok... and it doesn't look like that on the homepage
21:46 < RaphaelL> anyone knows if major changes are expected for the server target?
21:47 < tcr> In not-that-close future, yes
21:47 < RaphaelL> ah, and you know what? something that can be changed after installation (without too much trouble)?
21:48 < tcr> Sorry, I don't understand what you're actually asking
21:48 < netrunner> what has a 'echo "gimp-print found. Will use it as printer driver ..."' to do in a .conf file?
21:49 < RaphaelL> if some changes are expected for the server target
21:49 < RaphaelL> and if these changes are hard/troublesome to adapt after installing a server with the current rock version
21:50 -!- ripclaw_ [~ripclaw@p508939ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:51 < tcr> RaphaelL, well iirc the server target isn't anything very fancy atm, is it?
21:51 < netrunner> RaphaelL: the changes will probably affect the list of packages contained or how you select them. the packages themselves remain clean as it is Rock like.
21:52 < RaphaelL> so it actually is only the "installation process" itself that might change (?)
21:52 < jsaw> netrunner: 'echo "gimp-print found. [snip]', where is this?
21:52 < RaphaelL> -> which results in: yes, just install this server and you can update packages afterwards anyway
21:52 < RaphaelL> correct?
21:53 < netrunner> jsaw: package/x11/ghostscript/ghostscript.conf
21:53 < tcr> RaphaelL, Yes
21:53 < RaphaelL> ah, nice
21:53 < jsaw> netrunner: o_O
21:54 < RaphaelL> hmm, well, so it won't be a "very clean" release I'm using
21:54 < RaphaelL> any known problems with current svn version?
21:54 < RaphaelL> ("very clean" == 2.0.0 final)
21:56 < tcr> RaphaelL, I don't think that the server target as such will be touched before 2.0.0 final, if at all in 2.0)
21:56 < RaphaelL> ok, thank you very much for the info
21:56 < netrunner> RaphaelL: targets are more or less a package reselection with tiny customizations.
21:57 < netrunner> s/re/pre/
21:57 < RaphaelL> yep, thanks :)
21:57 < RaphaelL> another question: how much data is a ./scripts/Download all ?
21:58 < tcr> quite a lot
21:58 < tcr> >3gb 
21:58 -!- scoopexH [~marc@td9091f9a.adsl.terralink.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
21:58 < RaphaelL> *g* any idea? 2,5 GB? >3GB.... hmm
21:59 < SMP> no, just under 2GB
21:59 < RaphaelL> aha, that doesn't hurt so much
21:59 < tcr> SMP, Really?
21:59 < RaphaelL> because then I would be able to build just any target out of it
21:59 < SMP> probably 20% more on the wire due to later recompression to bzip2
21:59 < SMP> tcr: $ du -sh download/
21:59 < SMP> 1,8G    download
22:00 < SMP> and that's mostly -list-unknown clean
22:00 < tcr> and it's -all?
22:00 < SMP> of course
22:01 < tcr> Uhm... my memory seems to be b0rken
22:01 -!- ripclaw [~ripclaw@p508939ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:01 < tcr> maybe I had a somewhat accumulated download/ to that time
22:02 < RaphaelL> hmm, and that requires a subversion version of 0.29 (+/-1)?
22:02 < RaphaelL> (currently only 0.26 and 0.27 here)
22:02 < jsaw> netrunner: gimp-print is anyway for gimp-1.2, I don't understand why we have it... (me refuses to put it in gnome24)
22:04 < SMP> jsaw: I thought gimp-print were just printer-drivers independent from The Gimp. cups uses them, too ...
22:04 < tcr> RaphaelL, I'm using a statically linked version from http://schillernet.dyndns.org/svn/clients/ 
22:05 < RaphaelL> ah, nice ... just was about to download the rock-rc1 and ./scripts/UpdateSrc to current version
22:05 < RaphaelL> but a static linked svn is great, thanks for the link!!
22:06 < tcr> mom, the link doesn't work
22:06 < RaphaelL> *g*, correct
22:08 < tcr> RaphaelL, http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/clients/
22:09 < RaphaelL> thx
22:09 < jsaw> SMP: from 4.3.21 changelog: The Print plugin for the Gimp requires the Gimp 1.2 (later versions of he Gimp are not supported).
22:10 -!- dreamind [dreamind@IP-213157009242.dialin.heagmedianet.de] has quit (":x")
22:11 < netrunner> 4598    /space/linux/rock-download
22:11 * netrunner is also known as 'keeps the linux history alive' :)
22:16 * netrunner just installed 2.0.0-rc1 ... is that /usr/usr of kbd fixed?
22:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EABAD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ("Leaving")
22:19 < th> even with pam in my target, kdeadmin fails due to missing /lib/libmisc.la
22:19 < th> re folks btw
22:38 < SMP> I didn't see any connection to PAM in the first place ;->
22:40 < SMP> th: try making kdeadmin use dynamic libs
22:40 < SMP> it worked with the other package ;-> (and it's a good idea in general)
22:42 < netrunner> jsaw: my point was more the echo, it messes with the nice build output.
22:42 * netrunner has now 6GHz compiling rock (currently)
22:42 < th> SMP: kdebase behaves different with and without pam
22:43 < th> SMP: it does not fail with pam
22:43 * netrunner -> bed
22:43 < SMP> yes, but libmisc has nothing to do with pam
22:44 < th> yes i learned that some minutes ago
22:50 < RaphaelL> huh, ROCK Server target is still considered "experimental" ??
23:01 < RaphaelL> well, I wish you all a good night (those in europe time zone)
23:06 -!- RaphaelL [~raphael@213.162.66.71] has quit ("Leaving")
--- Log closed Tue Sep 30 00:00:57 2003