--- Log opened Wed Oct 22 00:00:00 2003
00:30 -!- nookie [~n00kie@M356P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
00:32 < _spectre_> spectre:~$ fortune
00:32 < _spectre_> LSD melts in your mind, not in your hand.
00:33 < _spectre_> gn8
00:33 < daja77> hehe
00:33 < daja77> n8 _spectre_ 
00:37 -!- Pyro is now known as Mike1
00:38 < Mike1> re
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00:48 < daja77> hi Mike1 
00:48 < Mike1> hello Daniel.
00:48 < Mike1> :)
00:49 < daja77> :)
00:52 < daja77> *gnaaa* found bug in my application
00:52 < daja77> stupid me
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00:59 * Mike1 shoots daja77 with his water pistol
00:59 < Mike1> ripclaw: !!!
00:59 < ripclaw> hi mike!
00:59 < ripclaw> helo wrld
00:59 < Mike1> its a real honor to see you here Stefan.
01:00 < ripclaw> thnx - btw u r on open channel. 
01:00 < Mike1> ?
01:01 < daja77> hi ripclaw 
01:02 < ripclaw> hi daja77
01:05 * daja77 tagging stuff and sending mail ^^
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01:09 < daja77> Mike1: btw what happened to woden
01:09 < Mike1> daja77: oits stuck again because i hardly have ttime to sleep.
01:11 < daja77> ic
01:15 < daja77> poor empty neighbour chan :)
01:20 * daja77 goes to bed
01:20 < daja77> cu
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01:34 -!- Rex [~Rex@pcp03379701pcs.manass01.va.comcast.net] has joined #rocklinux
01:34 < Rex> hi all
01:35 < Rex> so.. rock linux is a very solid and .. well.. rock hard linux distro that is good for starting off of for home-brewed linux, right?
01:41 < ripclaw> yo. looks like build-kit to me :-)
01:42 < Rex> rock linux rocks
01:42 < Mike1> Rex: new to rock linux?
01:43 < ripclaw> mike - didnt see him around here...
01:43 < Rex> yes I am
01:43 < Rex> actually
01:43 < Rex> I dont even have it installed yet
01:43 < Mike1> Rex: ah well welcome.. ripcalw and I are more or less new too :)
01:44 < Rex> I'm still running redhat, jsut diong some 'ahead of time' things
01:44 < ripclaw> mike... ive been new to rock since `99 - everytime rene and cliff change stuff, i get puzzled
01:44 < Mike1> good to hear :).. you know even if you run redhat if you want to test rock there is uml or vmware :)
01:44 < ripclaw> rex - its solid as rock, you can form it like concrete and plaster.
01:44 < Rex> like.. does rock come with GNOME? or at least icewm? It takes too long for me to get gui's goin
01:45 < ripclaw> rex - your choice of yes.
01:45 < Mike1> Rex: it has gnome, kde, icewm, etc..
01:45 < ripclaw> or you can later add it if you need extreme stuff. its so darn easy.
01:45 < ripclaw> mike - gnustep is the only thing i noticed missing yet.
01:45 < Rex> ok.. so they didnt make it rock solid by simply takign everyhting out
01:45 < Rex> they actually played with the kde source to make it .. more solid?
01:45 < Mike1> ripclaw: i have been away from rock for what 3 months and now that i sort off back i see everthing different ..
01:46 < Mike1> ripclaw: mmm.. wierd it used to be back on 1.6 or previous versions if i am not wrong.
01:46 < ripclaw> mike i already got some kind of used to that in 1.3.11 series, 1.5 and 1.7 are no different in changing. o wait its called 2.0 now.
01:46 < Rex> I mean.. what makes the rock linux distro so certain to be more solid than the debian guys?
01:47 < ripclaw> no rex - usually people dont add unnecessary patches to de-stabilize.
01:47 < Mike1> ripclaw: feel free to answer :)
01:47 < ripclaw> debian has a few thousand maintainers. it is huge. try doing a 3 person port to some other hardware in 3 days with debian and rock.
01:48 < Mike1> hehe
01:48 < ripclaw> me, cliff and paletta ported it to ppc mac in 3 days in 99, me without knowing the system. it got easier recently.
01:48 < Rex> ok.. so one method of solidifying a distro is making sure to take the most solid packages? and testing?
01:48 < ripclaw> i ported it to sparc with rene and armijn.
01:48 < Rex> I ported this java program from linux to windows in like.. no time.. get it?
01:49 < Rex> haha.. thanx to the vm
01:49 < Rex> (technically.. I didnt do crap)
01:49 < Mike1> Rex: you do understand what ripclaw is saying right?
01:49 < ripclaw> debian has a huge amount of tools no one really needs, they still package with gzip not bzip.
01:50 < Rex> I get that
01:50 < ripclaw> rex - the point with rocklinux is that i use the core scripts to set up cross compile environments, figure out the bad parts of linux, glibc and the gcc, compile on intel for e.g. sparc and get a working cd image
01:50 < Rex> and rock is like.. just what a person needs
01:50 < ripclaw> like e.g. make world in openbsd.
01:50 < ripclaw> it works on nearly as much platforms as debian, same patch times, but we have 20 maintainers, not 2500.
01:50 < Mike1> and you can cotumize _anything_ quite easily
01:51 < Rex> how big is a minimal rock install? is it very fit for those single board computers?
01:51 < ripclaw> like mike said, you can e.g. swap out glibc for dietlibs.
01:51 < ripclaw> minimal rock can fit 1,4 mb. depends on which target you build.
01:51 < Mike1> Rex: we use targets and package selection templetes..so you yes you can get to build something very minimal
01:51 < Rex> this is fun.. you guys like.. know your distro.. goodness
01:52 < ripclaw> if you mean a minimal server or desktop target - its in the hundreds mb range, minimal target is very low profile.
01:52 < Mike1> or you can run rock router on a rom it would use just mm.. 5mb
01:52 < ripclaw> ahem. i`ve been user number 3 :-)
01:52 < Rex> oooh so It appears that you guys love to play with rock because you can make dedicated operating systems for dedicated reasons
01:53 < Mike1> ripclaw: well if you build minimal with dietlibc it should be quite saml..
01:53 < ripclaw> there is e.g. the cdrom install target, its basically a 5mb system with a small ramdisk loaded after boot from cd to install the system.
01:53 < ripclaw> exactly.
01:53 < Mike1> haven't tried personally but i guess it should work fine
01:53 < Rex> I mean.. debian dudes would lauph at the idea of making a debian router- sayin it is too bulky for such a simple task
01:54 < Mike1> Rex: not if you try to create a Cisco IOS like shell for the router.. :)
01:54 < ripclaw> i can create a mailserver target if i like that is just a minimal set with a basic postfix and install it on a few hundred boxes. i can build custom sets for e.g. deutsche bank to install only that and that software.
01:54 < Rex> yah I donno that end of the cable
01:54 < Rex> I just know the bash shell
01:54 < Mike1> Rex: know bash you will be able to understand most of the rock linux code.
01:55 < ripclaw> knowing bash is GOOD
01:55 < Rex> what do you mean? rock is made of C though, isnt it?
01:55 < Rex> or you mean its configuration?
01:55 < ripclaw> just pick up the source tarball and start reading ./Documentation
01:55 < Mike1> this reminds me of an UnOfficial new - /me is comming back to rock.
01:56 < ripclaw> rock is basically shell scripts 90%, 5%awk, 3%other 2% C
01:56 < Mike1> nah go ahead for the svn tree :)
01:56 < Rex> well.. see.. I can explain my project, then I knwo you guys would say "Rock is for you" cause you guys are like.. rock dudes, but I DO plan to use single board computers
01:56 < ripclaw> the C stuff is mostly the autodetection for hardware, the package manager core and some other parts.
01:56 < Rex> ok so the C stuff is the kernel stuff- it sounds
01:57 < Rex> wow.. shells can make the majority of an os??
01:57 < ripclaw> rex - there are other options like minoru embedded linux or openbsd - but i`ld prefer using rock for ease of configuring.
01:57 < Rex> and you guys have a coole irc
01:57 < Mike1> Rex: actually i am involved into several othe rprojects than rock linux, and i ensure you rock is a great option for what you want to do
01:57 < ripclaw> rex - its the build tools. shell code does unpack and configure packages for you - shell code does build and package it.
01:58 < ripclaw> you just tell rock config what you want and press GO.
01:59 < Mike1> Rex: what can we say, rock is just as cool as it sounds .. seirously its a lot fo fun
01:59 < Rex> I'm making an unmanned vehicle. I wanted it to only have a deamon to listen for simple directional commands through 802.11b, blah blah
01:59 < ripclaw> if what you get is not exactly what you want, you may have to change a few lines here or there. the format for most of this is easy, and you can look at other packages for hints
02:00 < Rex> you guys always use the new kernel?
02:00 < ripclaw> unmanned vehicle ? running an OS on it is overkill, but then you may not want to write low-level guidance software like the folks at www.terma.com
02:00 < Rex> like.. the one Linus is workin on now?
02:00 < ripclaw> kernel is selectable, libc is selectable etc.
02:00 < Mike1> Rex: the default kernel atm is 2.422, but yes you can tell it to use latest kernel :)
02:01 < ripclaw> just tell rocklinux i want 2.4/2.6 kernel with diet/glibc and blah and GO
02:01 < ripclaw> mike you got new stuff on #mike
02:01 < Mike1> Rex: do you need somethign more flexible?
02:01 < ripclaw> linux from scratch ?
02:01 < Rex> agh
02:01 < Rex> I'm not inventing the os again
02:02 < Rex> any os would even be capable of this
02:02 < ripclaw> ok. if you dont want to compile on the embedded system (gentoo) on each install, then compiling once and running (rock) is your choice.
02:02 < Rex> its just that.. not capable on a 32 MB smartbedia card for an HD
02:02 < Mike1> Rex: ever seem elks ?
02:03 < Rex> seen elks? no
02:03 < Mike1> elks.sf.net 
02:03 < ripclaw> mike - elks is for non-mmu microcomputer cpu - if he has at least 386 its better running a customized linux kernel
02:03 < ripclaw> elks - embeddable linux kernel subsystem
02:03 < Rex> but.. my concerns are the size, and whether it's known for direct interfaces with hardware
02:04 < Mike1> ripclaw: yeah sure i know..
02:04 < Mike1> Rex: what you need is to get diellibc building minimal
02:04 < Rex> and I'm also having a fight in my head between java and old c++
02:04 < Mike1> that will do the trick for you 
02:04 < ripclaw> rex i suggest you just download the tarball, select building minimal dietlibc and look at the size.
02:05 < Mike1> ripclaw: hehehe great minds think alike.
02:05 < Rex> so dietlibc is not G?
02:05 < ripclaw> if it doesnt fit, ask on the list if documentation isnt sufficient to downsize a minimal target
02:05 < Rex> oh.. what if I wanted this weird mix:
02:05 < ripclaw> you said ou lack space, so go C or C++ (if necessary). dietlibc is not G ?
02:05 < Mike1> Rex: mailing list and irc are both really good places to ask for help if you need
02:06 < Rex> almost ntohing but bash, and RPM
02:06 < ripclaw> weird mix ?
02:06 < ripclaw> RPM is hard, you need to install the RPM system which eats up 5mb
02:07 < ripclaw> mine package manager is smaller, you can also use the old script package manager, which is even smaller still
02:07 < Rex> what else...
02:07 < Rex> ah- the deamons
02:07 < ripclaw> which ones ?
02:08 < Rex> does it use the new system of daemons... I forget the terms now... initr.d blah blah
02:08 < Rex> those things have always been annoying to me
02:08 < ripclaw> rex - selectable :-P
02:08 < Rex> well.. is there any daemon autp-config or something?
02:09 < Rex> I want to be asked questions.. you know? like "what is the binary to run? what runlevel?"
02:09 < ripclaw> what is it supposed to do - never heard of it.
02:10 < Rex> this is mainly because I'm going to be flicking this single board comptuer on and off like its a christmas light, and I need to quickly get new things running at different time, you know?
02:10 < Rex> well.. I'm saying- isnt there anythign that makes the setup of daemons fast
02:11 < ripclaw> you can run runlvedit or edit a textfile and simply write in ther ewhich runlv it should run at
02:11 < Rex> what daemon system is simplest to you?
02:11 < ripclaw> thats all that will then config the initrd stuff.
02:11 < Rex> like.. I heard there are 2 types
02:12 < ripclaw> i prefer initrd aka system5 style. old bsd style gets chaotic on larger setups
02:12 < ripclaw> all in one script is a bad idea.
02:12 < Rex> what do youthink of the idea of having it XML-style?
02:12 < Rex> lol.. I like xml
02:12 < ripclaw> initrd and runlvedit - way to go on anything running more than 1 or 2 daemons
02:13 < Rex> good good.. 
02:13 < ripclaw> xml needs parsing libraries etc. eats size - too large for what you want in 32 mb
02:13 < Rex> yah.. in my case thats right
02:13 < ripclaw> awk/sed scripting can be done with busybox - 2mb done.
02:14 < ripclaw> busybox also has a initrd implementation, telnet, etc. it kills almost all problems
02:14 < Rex> another distro?
02:14 < Mike1> ripclaw: there is also uclib..
02:15 < ripclaw> busybox is a binary that can do the job of like 50 others - its a replacement for core system in one piece. www.freshmeat.net/busybox/ - its used for bootdisks etc.
02:16 < ripclaw> oh, yes - ulibc and dietlibc reduce binary size :-)
02:16 < Rex> which is smaller
02:16 < Mike1> so yes it is possible to get a very nice system consuming very little space.
02:16 < Rex> and what is lost in those?
02:17 < ripclaw> C blurb is lost. the C code is small, compact and does not offer unnecessary sh... like e.g. libc internal nfs routines or rpc routines - what do you think bloats glibc...
02:18 < Rex> cool cool
02:18 < Rex> so what do you think about java?
02:18 < Rex> I like the language; it's so nice to make software for everyone at once, you know
02:19 < ripclaw> java is fine for everything that needs user interaction, everything on system level should be C, everythink below may be optionally ASM if its CPU specific.
02:20 < ripclaw> Java is cool from portability, but you have to watch out for performance issues a lot to get it fast
02:21 < Rex> yah- see I kinda want the bare minimum of an OS that will have the java runtime and some java program as a daemon
02:22 < Rex> and , yes, C or C++ would've done it too, but I also like the portibility- so others can play with my open-source java
02:23 < Rex> or.. my free source code (as open source should have a community hepling create the stuff)
02:23 < ripclaw> look at the size of a JRE and libs and consider it again if you want to run it on embedded hardware. or upgrade the hardware.
02:23 < ripclaw> C code is very portable if written well, as is C++
02:24 < Rex> well I'm guessing I'll have alike a 11 MB OS
02:24 < Rex> haha.. I never though about considering the J2me
02:25 < Rex> but it would be the same JRE- as its a i486 architecture board
02:26 < ripclaw> 486 running java with how much ram ? i hope 64mb or more ? you want timely reaction by the controller for the vehicle, java is going to be slow on 486.
02:26 < ripclaw> look at the boards at www.soekris.com
02:30 < Rex> or.. I guessed that architecture actaully.. whatever it is, its 350 mhz
02:31 < Rex> I mgiht get one of these .. soekris..hmm
02:31 < ripclaw> pentium class, that should suffice. get 64mb ram minimum. the soekris stuff is nice, and cheap.
02:31 < ripclaw> its only guaranteed to run openbsd though, but linux usually also runs without modifications
02:32 < Rex> yah it should
02:32 < Rex> wait.. is there a jvm for bsd?
02:32 < ripclaw> ???? dunno ????
02:33 < Rex> aaah.. I dont care.. rock linux is the candidate so far though
02:33 < Rex> and I wanted to do things in java because I want people to be able to use it- no matter what os is on their unamnned vehicles
02:34 < ripclaw> thnx - just start playing with it and come back asking questions here or mailinglist anytime.
02:34 < Rex> sadly, I spelled that wrong
02:34 < Rex> yah. I'ma go now- this room is on my favs though, cause of the fast responses
02:34 < ripclaw> if its C code and well written, it usually works everywhere too. but C is faster.
02:34 < Rex> yah.. thats a good fight too
02:34 < ripclaw> depends on time and people online
02:35 < ripclaw> have a nice evening rex
02:35 < ripclaw> its long past midnite over here.
02:35 < Rex> I tried something in C, had trouble with the BSD sockets, but it could continue with some books
02:35 < Mike1> ripclaw: #ripclaw..
02:35 < Rex> oh, its 8:34
02:35 < Rex> in my case
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02:36 < ripclaw> ack. mike - its 2:34 morning over here.
03:40 < mnemoc> 21:34 here
03:40 < mnemoc> 22 i mean
03:40 < mnemoc> in that moment WAS 21:34 ;)
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09:02 * rajiv is away: gone
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10:22 < cannibal> moin
10:32 -!- zenlunatic [~zen@user-uiver4e.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #rocklinux
10:56 < cannibal> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,270765,00.html << ouch 
10:59 < cannibal> a php-jukie here?
11:05 < cchamilt> cannibal bird:?
11:06 < cannibal> hoeh?
11:06 < cannibal> <- owl
11:06 < cchamilt> I can do php, btw you should make your links in english :P
11:06 < cannibal> hrm.
11:07 < cannibal> but please help me... when we will do write the test
11:07 < cchamilt> OK, what is it you need.
11:08 < blindcoder> moin moin *yawn*
11:09 < cchamilt> hi blindcoder
11:09 < blindcoder> moin cchamilt 
11:12 < blindcoder> awl: can you give me a report of systems?
11:12 < blindcoder> owl, I meant...
11:12 < blindcoder> hrm...
11:12 < blindcoder> brb, breakfast
11:17 < daja77> moin
11:17 < cchamilt> morning
11:18 < daja77> hi cchamilt 
11:21 < cchamilt> Hm, I am procrastinating.
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11:52 < blindcoder> GNARF
11:52 < blindcoder> what the fuck?
11:52 < blindcoder> 1-gettext hangs with "Checking for Java Compiler ..."
12:03 < cannibal> fscking school! and this fscking bitch wants to write an test, now, too!!! 3 hours, 3 exen
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12:09 < blindcoder> that's why I hate ROCK
12:10 < blindcoder> ah, there it is...
12:19 < blindcoder> hrm
12:19 < blindcoder> looks like bash isn't compilable with dietlibc anymore
12:20 < blindcoder> oh well, sems like I have to not make a stage-9 build then
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12:26 < cannibal> O_o
12:27 < blindcoder> what?
12:31 < blindcoder> hrm... I could open a site about the Linux Video Project...
12:36 < cannibal> blindcoder: because you hate rock....
12:40 < blindcoder> cannibal: only when I don't find what I'm looking for and have to grep the whole source tree for it
12:43 < cannibal> blindcoder: ahso
12:43 < cannibal> <- hungry.someone wants to give me some food
12:43 < cannibal> ?
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12:56 < blindcoder> lunch
13:05 -!- Esel [~capchaos@dialin-145-254-160-095.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:08 < cannibal> hi a
13:08 < cannibal> aeh. Esel 
13:08 < Esel> Hi, Owl!
13:09 < blindcoder> hi
13:09 < Esel> Hey blindy
13:09 * Esel wonders why Gimp was updated to 1.3.20 in CVS while 1.3.21 is out and quite stable
13:09 < Esel> s/CVS/SVN/
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13:25 < cannibal> god, those lessons are so sense-less *cry*
13:27 < Esel> cannibal, what you're doing there?
13:28 < cannibal> Esel: aeh. sitting in the berufschule....
13:29 < cannibal> and trying not to fall asleep... (the big joke: nobody remarks, that i'm typing... my new keyboard "rollbar" doesn'tmake noise)
13:29 < blindcoder> ARGH
13:29 < cannibal> blindcoder: ???
13:29 < blindcoder> don't people test their software befor they release it?
13:29 < blindcoder> I'm just trying to compile seahorse V0.7.1
13:29 < blindcoder> and guess what?
13:29 < blindcoder> #
13:30 < blindcoder> they define __seahorse-marshal_MARSHAL_H__ in a .h file
13:30 < blindcoder> but they use __seahorse_marshal_MARSHAL_H__ afterwards!
13:30 < blindcoder> not to mention that gcc doesn't accept the former anyway...\
13:31 < Esel> It's not even released, it's still version zero. ;)
13:31 < Esel> They rely on kind people like you reporting typos. 
13:32 < cannibal> hihi
13:32 < cannibal> but wtf is seahorse?
13:32 < blindcoder> It's downloadable and has a tagged version number
13:32 < blindcoder> so it's released.
13:32 < blindcoder> cannibal: it's a GPG-Key-Management Tool
13:33 < cannibal> k.
13:33 < blindcoder> and far better than gpa!
13:33 < blindcoder> bad thing is, it relies on an older version of gpgme
13:34 < cannibal> .oO(DAU-Alarm in here... *watching to the tafel*)
13:36 < Esel> cannibal, you learning how to use M$ Office at school?
13:36 < cannibal> Esel: nah. how to use access, was last year
13:37 < cannibal> today "ip-spoofing explained in less than 3 minutes"
13:37 < Esel> Heh, teach me ip-spoofing, Owl.
13:37 < cannibal> Esel: *kick*
13:38 < cannibal> <- !(google.com)
13:38 < Esel> Yeh, there isn't a kick function in google.com yet.
13:40 < cannibal> hehe.  sure
13:41 < cannibal> ouch. "strichmaennchen... 
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14:11 < cannibal> omfg! somebody sings christmas-songs!!! WAAAAA!!!
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14:14 < fake> tach
14:15 < cannibal> hi fake *waves*
14:15 < cchamilt> we wish you a merry christmas
14:16 < blindcoder> hi fake 
14:16 < cchamilt> hi fake
14:16 < cannibal> cchamilt: *kick* thx. it's enough to hear/see people singing christmas songs... i don't know what they think... might their internal clock is ticking wrong.
14:16 < cchamilt> it happens.
14:17 < cchamilt> now you have me fighting it.
14:17 < cannibal> *har*
14:18 < cchamilt> Halloween is much better.
14:19 < cchamilt> Nothing like having a big bonfire.
14:19 < cchamilt> Starring at the stars.
14:19 < cannibal> hmmm.. nah. the money you get is better than everyting...
14:19 < cchamilt> Scaring little shits.
14:20 < cchamilt> Money?
14:21 < cchamilt> You get a wad of money from your parents at Christmas?
14:21 < cytrinox`> moin
14:21 < cannibal> yeah. normally i get money from my parens and so
14:21 < cannibal> hi cytrinox` 
14:21 < cchamilt> I see.  Kind of like Chinese parents then :)
14:22 < cchamilt> My parents were cooler, I had a sister and parents that believed in presents and parity.
14:22 < cchamilt> If one whined and got something, the other got equivalent value.
14:23 < cannibal> hmmm. they ask me what i want.. and i want money...
14:23 < cchamilt> Budgets were always over shot.
14:23 < cchamilt> Oh well, now I am dependent on Jocelyn, not the parents :).
14:24 < cannibal> hehe ;) i c. 
14:25 < cchamilt> Money is good, it just isnt flexible.  ie. Getting money for shopping from parents or going shopping with your parents.
14:26 < cannibal> hmm depends also on, if youlike your parents etc
14:26 < cchamilt> Unknown qualities of enough and levels of control over the situation, etc.
14:26 < cchamilt> If you like money, you should like your parents.
14:27 < cannibal> nah. if you are hated by them, you dont have to like them
14:28 < cchamilt> There is alway that situation I guess.
14:28 < cannibal> yeah 
14:29 < cchamilt> Sorry to hear that.
14:29 < cannibal> np. 
14:40 < rolla> re
14:40 < cannibal> wb rolla 
14:45 * fake gotta go, cya
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14:46 < cchamilt> I have sysklogd-sql replacing sysklogd, now to make a config.in thing for it.
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15:01 < blindcoder> WEE
15:02 < blindcoder> finally my site about the LVP is done :)
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15:04 -!- _spectre_ [hjhzmb@stahl.uni-oldenburg.de] has joined #rocklinux
15:05 < blindcoder> if someone want to have a look at it (Navigation to the left below "LVP"): http://www.crash-override.net/lvp/news.php
15:05 < blindcoder> I'll be back in an hour-something
15:05 < blindcoder> baba
15:05 -!- dev0 [tobias@pD9E58D7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:05 < dev0> huhu...
15:05 < cannibal> hi dev0 
15:07 < dev0> I'm quite confused about the different rock linux ISOs/build targets
15:07 < dev0> if I just want to get started...
15:07 < dev0> what should I get?
15:08 < cannibal> the latest 2.0-iso
15:09 < daja77> there are different latest isos ...
15:09 < dev0> What's the difference between the drock and the generic ISOs
15:09 < cannibal> drock
15:09 < dev0> mmkay
15:09 < cannibal> i would use at leat
15:09 < cannibal> st
15:10 < daja77> generic has more packages
15:10 < dev0> What is the difference?
15:10 < daja77> a slightly different kernel, and some different user space settings, other prompt and stuff
15:10 < dev0> thanks
15:10 < dev0> that's the kind of info I needed.
15:11 < daja77> np
15:11 < dev0> What is generic made for?
15:11 < dev0> more server centric?
15:11 < daja77> for rc1 it is maybe better to use desktop isos, cos i had not that much time to test rc1 generic
15:12 < daja77> generic is the all inclusive version of rock, as much packages as possible
15:13 < dev0> Is drocklinux.dyndns.org running on your machine?
15:13 < dev0> passive FTP ist tod
15:14 < daja77> no but you could use the mirror
15:15 < dev0> I am right now
15:16 < daja77> ok
15:17 -!- starlord [~starlord@fj92.netikka.fi] has joined #rocklinux
15:18 < dev0> Is drock optimized for i686?
15:18 < daja77> pentium-mmx
15:20 < dev0> should have guessed.
15:23 -!- kasc [~kasc@dsl-082-082-082-109.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:24 < daja77> hi kasc 
15:25 < cannibal> hi kasc ! *kick*
15:25 < daja77> hello kick?
15:25 -!- _spectre_ [hjhzmb@stahl.uni-oldenburg.de] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
15:26 < cannibal> sure. he wasn't there since $dunno
15:26 < daja77> ic
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15:30 < cannibal> O_o
15:32 * cannibal counts the seconds till this boring school-day ends
15:32 < dev0> <- holidays :)
15:32 < cannibal> dev0: *kick*
15:33 < daja77> dev0: have fun
15:46 < cchamilt> damn, tripwire is just spinning when it generates keys.  20 minutes at 99% CPU.
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16:19 < starlord> anyone alive?
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16:34 < blindcoder> hi hi and rehi
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17:03 < netrunne1> blindcoder: what's so funny?
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18:11 < rolla> does that link help?
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18:33 < cannibal> remoin
18:35 -!- jsaw [~jsaw@pD95069A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:35 < cannibal> hi jsaw 
18:35 < jsaw> re
18:36 < jsaw> hi cannibal
18:45 < cannibal> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,270796,00.html << something to laugh about
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19:39 < ragrag_> i built a bootable rocklinux iso woth *.tar.bz2 binary packages,but now stone complains that it can't find 00-dirtree-0000.gem what to do?
19:41 < jsaw> ragrag_: I think you have to unpack manually...
19:42 < ragrag_> no way to do this with the *.tar.bz2 file?
19:42 < jsaw> ragrag_: lemma see, I'll have a look into the source...
19:51 < jsaw> ragrag_: I don't see any. The only thing would be to repackage the tar.bz2's into gem's with "tarbz2gem". But maybe you ask a bit later when more developers are back :)
19:52 < ragrag_>   is there really a tool tarbz2gem?i'd try this
19:52 < ragrag_> my problem is i'm totally unexperienced handling rocklinux, i've used slackware so far but want to try something new...
19:54 < jsaw> What did you build exactly?
19:54 < jsaw> Only the bootdisk?
19:55 < ragrag_> bootdisk and the minimal system...
19:55 < ragrag_> and that's where stone complains about the dirtree package
19:56 < ragrag_> so where can i find tarbz2gem?
19:56 < jsaw> So, I'd say, change tar.bz2 -> gem for the minimal. Now it may get complicated if you do not want to rebuild...
19:57 < jsaw> tarbz2gem is inside the chroot environment of the minimal target build...
19:57 < jsaw> So let's see if this works (if it doesn't you should simply rebuild the minimal package):
19:58 < ragrag_> k,thx i'll try...
19:58 < ragrag_> bye
19:58 < jsaw> wait
19:58 < jsaw> wait
19:58 < ragrag_> ?
19:58 < jsaw> mount the pkgs path into the chroot environment (where your tar.bz2 files of minimal target are)
19:58 < jsaw> (something like build/*/pkgs)
19:59 < ragrag_> ja.I'm gonna try this
19:59 < jsaw> mount --bind build/*/pkgs build/*/root/mnt for example
19:59 < jsaw> then chroot...
19:59 < ragrag_> abd if any problems occure again i'll be back^^
19:59 < jsaw> cu
19:59 < ragrag_> cu
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20:00 * rajiv is back (gone 10:58:16)
20:17 * blindcoder back
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20:28 < rolla> yawn
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21:39 < netrunner> who would reject patching the default papersize of ghostscript to letter?
21:39 < netrunner> here I always have to fight when printing from rl ... 
21:40 * jsaw would
21:40 < jsaw> config option?
21:40 < jsaw> hi netrunner, btw
21:40 < netrunner> hi, too :)
21:40 < netrunner> jsaw: where? my printer is configured to use a4 (cups)
21:41 < jsaw> config option in the build system
21:41 < jsaw> (a new one)?
21:41 < netrunner> jsaw: the point is, that the /usr/lib/cups/filter/pstoraster calls gs which then defaults to letter
21:41 < netrunner> jsaw: sure, I thought sth like that. (not forcing letter-users to fight from now on ;)
21:42 < netrunner> I'll work on that tomorrow in the uni, and send a suggestion to the list.
21:42 < netrunner> this is one of the things that is driving me mad under linux for years. :(
21:43 < jsaw> netrunner: are you sure, there's no env variable to set default paper size for gs?
21:50 < jsaw> netrunner: btw, if the document that runs through gs states that it wants "letter", gs will use letter. Another approach maybe to add a force "A4" to pstoraster instead of patching gs?
21:52 < jsaw> (I never had problems with cups so far, also nobody printing via samba to my machine. Only if people explicitely set the letter option...)
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21:53 < SMP> arrgh
21:53 < jsaw> hi SMP, Tim Taylor's "arrarararar" back.
21:54 < SMP> someone must have modified gcc* so that building with build/ being a mount does not work anymore
21:54 * netrunne1 tried lpr -o media=a4 , but does not work either :(
21:54 < jsaw> netrunner: that's weird!
21:55 < netrunne1> jsaw: I know of now way to do this. If you tell me sth, I buy you a beer. or couple of. because that bothers me for a long time
21:58 < jsaw> netrunne1: would does your printer ppd say? (here /etc/cups/ppd/*)
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21:59 < jsaw> netrunne1: and also try if it is case sensitive (try "Media=A4")
21:59 < netrunne1> jsaw: the defaults all say a4 
22:00 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
22:00 < netrunner> I am pretty sure that it is the ghostscript call in pstoraster. it says nothing about papersize, so gs defaults to letteer 
22:01 < jsaw> try "PageSize=A4"
22:01 < jsaw> not all printers understand Media=A4 AFAICS in my ppds
22:02 < jsaw> there's a profile passed to gs in pstoraster
22:02 < netrunner> I tried to put -sPAPERSIZE=a4 to the $gsopts in that file, but that leads to an Memory error of that gs call and abort
22:03 < netrunner> jsaw: I have DefaultPageSize=A4 in my lp.ppd
22:04 < jsaw> what's in your .lpoptions file?
22:04 < netrunner> (manually executing the modified pstoraster works btw but I am not sure if I reproduced all options)
22:05 < netrunner> jsaw: I have no such file.
22:06 < jsaw> did you try -o PageSize=A4?
22:06 < netrunner> hm just a second ...
22:09 < netrunner> no :/
22:09 < jsaw> I have a job for you: a new package: http://freshmeat.net/projects/qtcups/
22:11 < jsaw> In the meantime another try, add the following two lines to "~/.lpoptions"
22:11 < jsaw> Dest lp PageSize=A4
22:11 < jsaw> Default lp
22:14 < netrunner> jsaw: it's hp says: QtCUPS is obsolete and currently unmaintained
22:14 < jsaw> oh, ok. I'm still using it on my lab server....
22:15 < netrunner> I do not have X there  anyway.
22:15 < netrunner> I'll try to patch ghostscript tomorrow. then I'll see.
22:15 * jsaw is puzzled
22:19 < jsaw> netrunner: see REAME:
22:19 < jsaw> WHAT IS INCLUDED?
22:19 < jsaw>         - Patches to add the NOMEDIAATTRS option to Ghostscript,
22:19 < jsaw>           which allows CUPS drivers to use media options
22:19 < jsaw>           separate from Ghostscript.
22:22 < jsaw> that's not it... it's already used by cups/pstoraster...
22:27 < netrunner> hm.
22:30 < netrunner> true.
22:30 < netrunner> argl.
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22:42 < netrunner> reading from the web this seems to be a common problem with egs ...
22:42 * netrunner gives up for today ... n8*
22:43 < jsaw> cu netrunner 
22:54 < SMP> this is incredible ...
22:54 < SMP> k3b seems to be unable to create an ISO image without having a cd writer 'recognized'
22:57 < jsaw> I use gcombust. But even nautilus can write without a burner...
22:59 < SMP> I don't even know why it doesn't 'recognize' my device - I even switched to the stupid ide-scsi layer
23:00 < jsaw> hurmpf
23:04 < rolla> re
23:07 < jsaw> hi rolla 
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 23 00:00:18 2003