--- Log opened Mon Dec 29 00:00:26 2003
00:01 < mnemoc> how much time did he took?
00:01 < daja77> he was quite fast
00:02 < blindcoder> just a few minutes
00:02 < blindcoder> so maybe 10 minutes
00:03 < mnemoc> how many ppl?
00:03 < blindcoder> a LOT
00:03 < blindcoder> the room was _full_
00:03 < mnemoc> cool
00:04 < mnemoc> and the previous? 20 minutes?
00:05 < mnemoc> what did they do the rest of their time?
00:05 < daja77> watching the show
00:06 * mnemoc wants to imagine it :(
00:07 * mnemoc will have to torture people to get the full picture :\
00:07 < daja77> if mike would prepare somw webspace for me i could upload some images
00:08 < mnemoc> is mike there?
00:08 < daja77> no, he got no flight
00:08 < mnemoc> dammit
00:13 < netrunner> daja77: put the images on my server (44.244) and I'll put them on my home server.
00:14 < netrunner> daja77: oh, wait, you're not talking about jpeg-images but iso-images? ... too big ;)
00:16 < mnemoc> iso? you mpeged it?
00:19 < netrunner> mnemoc: I did not get if you were talking about iso or jpeg images ... iso would be to big, but I could put some jpegs on my server though ;)
00:20 < daja77> jpeg images
00:20 < tcr> hi all. how's c3 going, guys?
00:21 < mnemoc> netrunner: you asked if the images where iso or jpeg? then i got surprised with the 'iso' word because i understood iso as vcd
00:22 < netrunner> daja77: ok. you can directly upload them to ftp://waterworld.dyndns.org/incoming since I just noticed I have no incoming withme here.
00:22 < netrunner> mnemoc: no, more iso as in output of scripts/Create-ISO :)
00:23 < mnemoc> d'oh
00:27 < daja77> rofl
00:29 < blindcoder> test
00:29 < blindcoder> hmm...
00:29 < netrunner> blindcoder: failed.
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00:29 < netrunner> oh :) scared him 
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00:31 < hannes_> hi snyke
00:32 < tcr> netrunner, Where do the pictures wait?
00:36 < snyke> hi hannes
00:37 < snyke> how's ccc?
00:37 < blindcoder> hisn
00:37 < blindcoder> hi snyke 
00:37 < snyke> hi blindcoder
00:37 < snyke> eros died
00:37 < hannes_> snyke: real cool ;)
00:38 < snyke> but recovered
00:38 < hannes_> snyke: what?!
00:38 < blindcoder> died? as in "died by cutting an axe through it?"
00:38 < hannes_> snyke: what happens? was it the raid?
00:38 < snyke> yes
00:40 < hannes_> snyke: did you have any data loss?
00:41 < snyke> I don't know
00:41 < snyke> I didn't see anything missing until now
00:41 < hannes_> ok
00:44 < daja77> hmm images are huge, should use some sw before upload, watch out for 35mb netrunner 
00:45 * daja77 using komqueror for ftp upload O_o
00:46 < tcr> Why so big?
00:46 < tcr> Please reduce the quality
00:46 < netrunner> tcr: I do that automatically.
00:47 < tcr> netrunner, Oh great... otherwise it would be a PITA to access them via browser :)
00:47 < netrunner> tcr: I know, and for my traffic ;)
01:03 < mnemoc>  japan exports in 'culture' (manga, music, art) 3.5 times what it exports in technology <-- o_O
01:05 * blindcoder -> bed
01:06 < mnemoc> gn8 blindcoder 
01:11 * daja77 taking more photos
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01:24 < daja77> bye
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01:37 < mnemoc> bye daja77 
01:44 < netrunner> ah, my schwan is finished
01:47 < mnemoc> schwan??
01:49 < netrunner> mnemoc: freeswan. swan sounds like the german swain "schwan"
01:49 < mnemoc> :-\
01:50 < mnemoc> is schwan 2 +x509 +nat_traverse currently usable in production?
01:56 < netrunner> dunno ;)
01:57 * netrunner wanders what a natted production could be :)
02:00 < mnemoc> =) to go from your nated home to the nat firewall of your office ;)
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03:56 < fake> phew
03:56 < fake> ... what a trip ...
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04:14 < mnemoc> s/^coffee$//g :(
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04:34 < mnemoc> great i found a 50g cute can of coffee :)
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04:51 < mnemoc> where are you Mike1 when i have to work the whole night? :'(
05:28 < mnemoc> damn edonkey... it colapse my dlink router :\
06:44 < mnemoc> &clear
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10:50 < netrunner> moin
10:52 < mnemoc> moin netrunner 
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11:23 < praenti> moin
11:24 < mnemoc> moin praenti 
11:25 < praenti> mnemoc: btw. because i had some discussion with rocklinux people last night, what is your opinion about comments and documentation in/of rocklinux scripts?
11:26 < praenti> is it too bad? odr can you work with the scripts in an acceptable way?
11:26 < praenti> s/odr/or
11:26 < mnemoc> --help are good enough 
11:26 < mnemoc> for the scripts
11:27 < mnemoc> but documentation.... handbook is good but i see it in the middle
11:27 < mnemoc> not for newbies and not for 'involved' people
11:28 < mnemoc> the inconsistencies in scripts args can be confusing for 'newcomers'
11:29 < praenti> ok. the problem for some people is that changes/bugfixes in the scripts are a little bit difficult because on some parts the intention is unknown
11:29 < praenti> and if you have time pressure it is not possible to get deep in the code
11:30 < mnemoc> yep
11:31 < mnemoc> if you are not absolutly decided to get into rock you can't get into it.
11:31 < praenti> i think if we want to get more developers, we must allow also not high skilled people to help us
11:32 < mnemoc> sure... we need users to test stuff :)
11:32 < mnemoc> we can't use rock in 100%
11:32 < mnemoc> we assume it work for everybody
11:34 < mnemoc> the handbook is to fat for people 'just looking around', so they will never know what rock is and pass through :(
11:34 < mnemoc> no new users, no new testers, no new developers, and we keep a very reduced community for ever :'(
11:35 < praenti> hmm. thats a new side which supports my view
11:35 < mnemoc> the worse is that we don't answer feedback mails :(
11:36 < mnemoc> the very few feedback mails we got are almost all unanswerd
11:36 < mnemoc> and if you take a look, [RFC] mail are not answered neither
11:36 < praenti> i thought about more intentional comments in the scripts to allow people to develop for us. for a lot of developers it is very frustrating when you don't understand the code
11:38 < mnemoc>  commented code *and* a complete description of the purpose and implementation of each script would be needed
11:38 < praenti> hmm. ok thats also true. for example it is difficult for me to answer some mails, because I don't understand it really what rock does really
11:38 < praenti> and i don't want to give a false answer
11:39 < praenti> but i think, that we can discuss that with a real concept not before german Linuxtag
11:40 < mnemoc> 1. "i fear to answer wrong" 2. "i'm too busy, somebodyelse will answer" 
11:40 < praenti> because i want to have a concept for this. that means for me, that i have to take a look on successfully working open source projects
11:41 < praenti> how they are organized and how they communicate
11:41 < praenti> ohh. second point is interesting to solve...
11:41 < mnemoc> i think we must document somekind of architectonic design of rock
11:41 < mnemoc> and a FAQ
11:42 < mnemoc> are we the only real opensource project without one?
11:43 < praenti> mnemoc: the point is that i'm a little afraid that ROCK Linux Project will die, cause of frustration of some developers and i can't see new ones
11:43 < mnemoc> i feel that too
11:44 < mnemoc> after 2.0.0 we will need to focus on 'what newbies can need to get interested in rock'
11:44 < praenti> the concept is great and it would be pity to let it die, because we don't have anough developers...
11:44 < mnemoc> and what make them run away :'(
11:45 < mnemoc> can u ask clifford for an statistic about subscribe/unsubcribe to the ML=
11:45 < mnemoc> ?
11:45 < praenti> mnemoc: good idea. i will do that, if he arrives here
11:45 < praenti> s/if/when
11:46 < mnemoc> i'm convised the run away in panic after the first [PATCH] flood they get
11:47 < praenti> that is a point we already discussed. as i understand cillford and rene we will do a ML split in developer-list and user-list
11:48 < praenti> but development discussion should be more on user-list. developer-list is only for patching stuff and perhaps some implemention stuff and so an
11:49 < mnemoc> yes... that must be a compromise 
11:49 < praenti> user should also get development discussion, perhaps we have there new developers...
11:49 < mnemoc> we are 20 guys :)
11:50 < mnemoc> if someone want to get mnore involved he *will* subscribe to rock-devel
11:50 < praenti> yepp
11:50 < starlord> how you guys talked about using diffrent scripting beside bash scripts?
11:51 < mnemoc> ehm... please no
11:51 < praenti> starlord: rock should be buildable on nearly every linux system
11:51 < praenti> starlord: and not every system has perl or s.th. similar installed
11:51 < mnemoc> currently a rock-devel must learn bash, sed and grep
11:52 < mnemoc> perl takes too long to start
11:52 < starlord> yep,for that in mind,bash is good choice
11:52 < mnemoc> and the code will turn into egyptian *very* fast
11:53 < praenti> mnemoc: thx. the talk helps me a lot to build an argumentation
11:53 < mnemoc> good luck :)
11:53 < praenti> mnemoc: perhaps we can optimize this things
11:54 < mnemoc> faq and wiki can help a lot too
11:54 * praenti now looking around in the hackcenter
11:55 < starlord> how about real forum? current one isn't *very* good :)
11:55 < mnemoc> my dna force me to avoid forums
11:56 < mnemoc> i _can't_ (dna) 'navegate' to see what ppl said about something :(
11:58 < mnemoc> but there are projects like gmane that merge ML/nntp/webinterface
11:59 < mnemoc> and anyone can use the method he prefers
12:01 < starlord> hmm,where can i find good svn tutorial? i need to have list of file's that i have locally modified?
12:05 < mnemoc> the unwritten idea is to have two trees
12:05 < mnemoc> (rock's idea)
12:06 < starlord> hmm,how do you sync those two?
12:06 < mnemoc> one tree pure, and the other modified
12:06 < mnemoc> you svn up over both
12:06 < starlord> ah,ofcourse
12:06 < mnemoc> and you can use ./scripts/Create-Diff
12:07 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Create-Diff ../rock-ref . | lsdiff
12:07 < mnemoc> or ./scripts/Create-Diff ../rock-ref . package/base/iproute2
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14:04 < mnemoc> bbl... enjoy the last hours of the congress =)
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14:15 < daja77> *gna*
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14:38 < rolla> re
14:42 < daja77> hi rolla 
14:42 < daja77> netrunner: ping
14:44 < rolla> hallo daja77 
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16:15 < daja77> waah blindy your double screensaver hurts
16:15 < daja77> :)
16:16 < blindcoder> daja77: gomen >_<
16:16 < daja77> *gg*
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16:19 < MadTux> hi.
16:20 < daja77> MadTux!
16:20 < MadTux> hello daja77.
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16:36 < rolla> re
16:37 < MadTux> Joel!
16:37 < rolla> Mike
16:43 < daja77> netrunne1: ping
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18:04 * rolla yawns
18:04 * MadTux yawns back
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18:56 < nookie> MadTux!
18:58 < rolla> mmm lunch time
19:00 < MadTux> n00kie!
19:52 < mnemoc> re
19:52 < MadTux> mnemoc, :)
19:52 < mnemoc> MadTux: :)
19:52 < mnemoc> where have you been
19:52 < mnemoc> ?
19:52 < MadTux> my router is broken is have inet ;-/
19:53 < MadTux> so i have no inet *
19:53 < MadTux> .o0(god what is going on with me today)
19:54 < mnemoc> define broken
19:54 < MadTux> IOS flashed..
19:54 < MadTux> and mother board demaged (i think)
19:59 < mnemoc> ouch :(
19:59 < MadTux> yes..
20:00 < MadTux> currently i'm at a internet cafe... this is... this just sucks..
20:01 < mnemoc> rotfl
20:01 < MadTux> u are mean :(
20:02 < MadTux> anyways i'm off now, lunch calls :)
20:02 < MadTux> see u tonight
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21:37 < mnemoc> *yawn*
21:41 < mnemoc> hace cuanto que no agregan un quote nuevo?
21:41 < mnemoc> oops
21:41 < mnemoc> wrong window
21:41 < mnemoc> sorry :(
21:42 < mnemoc> !quote 1495
21:43 < mnemoc> aaarg
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22:54 < tcr> moin all
22:56 < rolla> re tcr
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 30 00:24:45 2003