--- Log opened Thu Mar 11 00:00:03 2004
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00:11 < A-Tui> hi
00:16 < mnemoc> re
00:19 -!- et990219 [~et990219@177.43-136-217.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #rocklinux
00:20 < et990219> hello
00:22 < mnemoc> hello
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00:28 < A-Tui> hello
00:28 < mnemoc> hola aitor
00:29 < et990219> salut
00:29 < et990219> :-)
00:29 < A-Tui> hola mnemoc
00:29 < A-Tui> salut et990219
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00:29 < et990219> salut A-tui
00:30 < et990219> tu parles français?
00:30 < A-Tui> nop, but salut is a "catalan" word too
00:31 < et990219> ah ok
00:31 < et990219> what does it mean?
00:31 < A-Tui> mmmm it's a greeting word
00:32 < A-Tui> literally means "health"
00:32 < et990219> ok
00:32 < A-Tui> but is used when greeting
00:32 < A-Tui> is like spanish "salud"
00:32 < et990219> ok
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00:33 < et990219> for how many time do you use linux?
00:33 < et990219> sorry for my english
00:34 < wrong> -
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00:34 < daja77> re
00:37 < A-Tui> ops gcc3 fails in build
00:37 < mnemoc> A-Tui: what?
00:37 < mnemoc> re daja77 
00:38 < daja77> thx mnemoc 
00:38 < mnemoc> et990219: me since 96, don't know about the others
00:38 < A-Tui> mnemoc, my build broke when building gcc3
00:38 < A-Tui> hola daja77 :)
00:38 < daja77> hola A-Tui 
00:38 < mnemoc> can you /query me the last relevant lines of .err?
00:39 < A-Tui> mnemoc, ok, one moment
00:40 < A-Tui> mnemoc, it seems to be an error with a .h in tools.cross
00:46 < mnemoc> what stage?
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01:47 < rammi> hi
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07:04 < sten> what happens to packages installed before "pkgconfig" is merged?  Will this break packages which depend on libraries installed before "pkgconfig" was?
07:08 < netrunne1> ah, finito. 903 builds total, 863 completed fine, 40 with errors
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07:23 < sten> what happens to packages installed before "pkgconfig" is merged?  Will this break packages which depend on libraries installed before "pkgconfig" was?
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07:37 < netrunner> sten: what is the change?
07:38 < sten> netrunner: doesn't pkgconfig track installed packages?
07:40 < netrunner> dunno
07:40 < blindy> not that I know
07:40 < blindy> kgconfig is a tool to creahe x-config programs
07:40 < blindy> it doesn't create these programs itself
07:41 < blindy> hi all, btw :)
07:41 < sten> ok.  Thanks
07:42 * blindy --breakfast
07:56 * netrunner --airport
08:04 < blindy> airport?
08:19 < sten> do add/remove a package to a build, can one quickly edit rock-src/config/default/pkgsel?
08:19 < sten> (instead of using the ncurses interface, or editing the packages[.txt])
08:20 < sten> s/do/to
08:22 < blindy> hmm "should" work
08:22 < blindy> though I never tried
08:22 < sten> blindy: do you usually use the ncurses interface?  (or add/remove later)
08:23 < blindy> sten: either I use a full generic build as it is, or generic/minimal and add packages as I need them once installed
08:23 < blindy> or create my own target :)
08:23 < sten> blindy: how do you add packages to your own target?
08:24 < blindy> have a look at target/bootdisk/config.in
08:24 < blindy> that's also how I do it with LVP
08:26 < sten> ok, I see how it works.  config/default/pkgsel uses awk, rather then sed, and it looks like a less configurable area for modification
08:26 < sten> local fine tuning, is what it is meant for, I think
08:27 < sten> which target/name/config.in is where everything which is crucial to the target is selectede
08:27 < blindy> yes, it's configuring the current build-configuration
08:27 < blindy> and will be lost in the next config
08:27 < blindy> exactly
08:28 < sten> man, I love how intelligently Rock is designed
08:28 < sten> it's elegant, you know?
08:28 < blindy> for the most part, it is
08:28 < blindy> the rest will be fixed as needed :)
08:29 < sten> one feature request I have,  is that rockplug is more modular.  (can disable PCI subsystem)
08:29 < sten> maybe I'll take a look at it myself
08:30 < blindy> don't you have PCI?
08:31 < sten> once I've had some time to get re-aquainted with ROCK.  (I LOATH PCI hotplugging.  I like monolithic kernels, with the exception of hot-swappable devices.  My mobo doesn't support hot-swapping PCI, so I don't need it...and I hate the scan each boot)
08:31 < blindy> I see
08:31 < blindy> well, the scan takes a long time, that's true.
08:32 < sten> on the other hand, it's very user friendly ;-)
08:32 < blindy> maybe one should do something like a lspci | md5sum >/etc/conf/pci_last_known
08:32 < blindy> and compare if it changed, and if not, just load the same modules as last time
08:32 < blindy> so you only have to run the PCI Scan once at boot time
08:32 < sten> I think that SuSE has done something similar to that in the past
08:33 < blindy> don't know, but I have to learn SuSE some time next week anyway >_<
08:33 < sten> for work?
08:33 < blindy> yes
08:33 < blindy> it depends if my co-worker goes to Berlin or not
08:34 < blindy> because if he does, I have to take over the Linux courses he's holdng
08:34 < blindy> and then I have to teach Linux to a bunch of MCSEs *cry*
08:34 < sten> rule #1 with SuSE:  Beware of YaST  #2  Don't hand-edit files.  #3 because YaST eats them
08:34 < blindy> ok, so that hasn't changed since 7.1
08:34 < sten> YaST is very user-friendly though. ;-)
08:34 < blindy> because that was the first Linux I ever used and the last SuSE I ever used :)
08:35 * blindy feels stupid thinking back to that time >_<
08:35 < blindy> I switched to Debian later and wondered: "Where the hell is /etc/rc.config???"
08:36 < sten> I think that this little-still-in-alpha distro called "Ark" will implement better user-friendlyness then SuSE.  (I hope SuSE deals with the enterprise-class stuff)
08:36 < sten> blindy: I know what you mean
08:36 < blindy> to be honest, I never used anything else than SuSE, Debian or ROCK. And I'm more than happy with ROCK now :)
08:38 < sten> blindy:  after trying RedHat 4.9, Debian something, and FreeBSD, and found, and LOVED ROCK 1.4
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08:38 < blindy> heh :)
08:38 < sten> blindy: then my Texas Instruments RTC burned out... the mobo was toast without it
08:38 < blindy> I started with ROCK 1.5-something
08:39 < blindy> hmm... I don't know much about hw, but can't the RTC be replaced with a good soldering iron?
08:39 < masoud> just a simple question : how much hard to build a distro with rocklinux ?
08:40 < sten> blindy: I was quite young, and clumsy at the time
08:40 < blindy> hmm... in theory it's just adapting the bootdisk target and creating your own target
08:40 < blindy> ah I see
08:40 < sten> blindy: well, a teenager, at least...
08:40 < sten> blindy: I didn't grow up soldering though, and I still need to practice
08:40 < blindy> I've created LVP in a bit over a week (post-job work)
08:41 < sten> masoud: do you want to create your own custom-space-station distro, or use one of the ready-made templates?
08:41 < blindy> well, that's a good question
08:43 < blindy> using the templates is quite easy and only depends on how much CPU you have to spare
08:44 < blindy> your own space-station distro with hand-made package system, graphical installer and so on will take "slightly" longer
08:44 < sten> I'm adapting minimal+xfree to my needs, quite easily.  (it doesn't take long to configure at all)
08:45 < sten> blindy: graphical installer?  (ncurses, or full-graphical?)
08:45 < blindy> I meant full-graphical
08:46 < sten> blindy: is there a STONE frontend for that?
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08:48 < sten> eh?  glut needs csh?  (or tcsh, I suppose, although it's not listed in the deps)
08:49 < blindy> sten: no there isn't, that's why I meant "slightly" :)
08:51 < sten> blindy: on the other hand, if there was a curses to directfb, gpm to directfb translation library, it probably wouldn't take that long....  OpenGL ncurses--weird
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08:53 < sten> blindy: ah.  after editing that "pkgsel" file, one of the rock-src/scripts needs to be run to edit packages[.txt] using the pkgsel.awk program.  ./scripts/Config, then exit, does this magically, but I know there's a faster way
08:54 < sten> well, it's late.  I'm going to go get some sleep.  gnight
08:55 < blindy> ./scripts/Config -oldconfig
08:55 < blindy> will run the configuration without firing up the ncurses interface
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09:56 * netrunner -> questionnaire
09:57 < blindy> hm?
10:03 * blindy gone
10:10 < daja77> moin
10:14 < daja77> 2.6.4 is out ;)
11:39 < blindy> rehi
11:40 < netrunner> hm, you shouldn't buy security products from me, my prof was not so happy ;)
11:40 < blindy> why?
11:49 < netrunner> 2.3 in test
11:49 < blindy> \hmm
11:52 < netrunner> if I want to redo a patch, am I right with the following procedure: svn diff -r new:old the/dir/or/file > revert.patch; patch -p0 revert.patch; svn commit -M "iwasstupid"; start again with the patch
11:53 < blindy> might work
11:55 < daja77> netrunner: what the heck happened to the hegg site?
11:56 < daja77> got redrirected when using https
12:01 < netrunner> daja77: https is not neccessary. no confidential info there.
12:02 < netrunner> oh, ic, the https redirects to sec's page ;)
12:02 < netrunner> I'll mention that.
12:02 < daja77> netrunner: i registered now anyway
12:03 < netrunner> aaahhh " VIRUS (Troj/Cidra-D) IN MAIL TO YOU (from <?@[127.0.0.1]>)" ... "the sender has been notified" argl
12:04 < daja77> O_o
12:04 < daja77> cu later
12:05 < netrunner> hehe, t-com now disabled calls to som islands where dialer come from
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12:48 < netrunner> http://waterworld.dyndns.org/~andreas/rocklinux/err/vlad-2.0.1-x86-pentium3-32-desktop-expert/
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13:20 < daja77> re
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13:29 < daja77> hi th
13:29 < th> hi there
13:31 < netrunner> hi th,daja77
13:32 < SMP> I wonder if I can do nfsroot over IPsec ;-O
13:32 < daja77> netrunner: are there other rocklinux ppl coming to easterhegg?
13:32 < daja77> ;)
13:33 < netrunner> clifford want's to hold the rocklinux workshop
13:33 < netrunner> maybe a presentation.
13:33 < daja77> ah nice
13:55 < mnemoc> moin
14:01 < daja77> hi mnemoc 
14:01 < netrunner> hi mnemoc 
14:02 < mnemoc> hi daja77, netrunner 
14:03 < mnemoc> anyone have seen busytux?
14:03 < daja77> nope
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14:15 < mnemoc> *headache*
14:17 < daja77> oh
14:26 < daja77> wtf happened to freenode
14:27 < mnemoc> what do u mean?
14:27 < daja77> have a look at your status window
14:27 < mnemoc> oh... they are playing with new service-bots
14:27 < daja77> seems so
14:30 < cytrinox> moin
14:32 < mnemoc> moin cytrinox 
14:45 < rolla> re
14:51 < daja77> hi rolla
14:52 < rolla> :)
14:52 < daja77> rolla: tried rock 2.0 already?
14:56 < mnemoc> **headache**
15:03 < blindy> rehi
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15:06 < kasal> Hi, I'd like to ask a question about bash prg style in scripts/*. Is anybody here?
15:07 < blindy> what question?
15:08 < kasal> The scripts often contain "< <(...)" as in "while read x; do something; done < <(ls dir)".
15:08 < blindy> yes
15:09 < kasal> What advantage does this have over simple "ls dir| while read x; ...; done" ?
15:10 < blindy> AFAIK the script fails with < <( ... ) but with ls | only the error from ls is printed to stderr and while continues with an empty stdin
15:11 < kasal> I'm going to try this...
15:11 < th> blindy: but set -e should make bash fail there too, shouldn't it?
15:11 < blindy> please do
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15:11 < blindy> th: no idea, I'm not that familiar with shell programmin
15:11 < blindy> g
15:12 < blindy> maybe < <( ) is also just there so that clifford can show that he's superior to everyone else :)
15:13 < kasal> The test failed:
15:13 < kasal> [kasal@ka23 ~]$ (echo a; ls sdf) |while read x; do echo "$x"; done
15:13 < kasal> a
15:13 < kasal> ls: sdf: No such file or directory
15:13 < kasal> [kasal@ka23 ~]$ while read x; do echo "$x"; done < <(echo a; ls sdf)
15:13 < kasal> a
15:13 < kasal> ls: sdf: No such file or directory
15:13 < kasal> (I hope such pasting is allowed here.)
15:15 < kasal> OK, enough for today.  Maybe I'll try to submit an "anti-< <" patch one day...when I learn SubMaster.
15:17 < kasal> Thanks, blindy, and good-bye.  (In case anyone spots this, the answer would be welcome on kasal@ucw.cz.)
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15:17 < rolla> daja77: nope still no good builds of rock 2.0
15:18 < daja77> rolla: try the isos
15:18 < mnemoc> rolla: 2.6?
15:18 < rolla> daja77: there are alpha iso's?
15:18 < daja77> alpha? no x86 or ppc
15:19 < daja77> thought you sold your alphas
15:19 < rolla> not yet
15:19 < daja77> ic
15:19 < rolla> I keep swonging between doing it and not
15:19 < daja77> ;)
15:19 < daja77> sparc isos should be ready soon
15:24 < rolla> daja77: ultra sparc
15:24 < rolla> ?
15:24 < daja77> hope so
15:28 < rolla> well then maybe I can test it
15:30 < rolla> daja77: what is the iso site
15:30 < mnemoc> drock.dyndns.org
15:30 < daja77> huh?
15:30 < daja77> not gsmp.tfh-berlin.de?
15:31 < mnemoc> uhm... yes :)
15:31 * mnemoc kicks headache
15:32 < mnemoc> gsmp.tfh-berlin.de (141.64.23.9)
15:32 < mnemoc> drocklinux.dyndns.org (141.64.23.9)
15:32 < mnemoc>  drock.dyndns.org (65.2.10.57)
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16:45 < fake> SMP: mind keeping me up to date on your Krups work? ;)
16:45 < daja77> krups?
16:46 < fake> To The Hilt
16:46 < fake> j/k
16:46 < fake> Sun JavaStation 10
16:46 < fake> codename 'Krups'
16:46 < daja77> ah
16:46 -!- ija [[zmL7OU7Wy@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:47 < SMP> fake: cross-build finished with no errors, Krups boots into it - more or less (loops over modprobe when using full sysvinit, probably just a minor quirk)
16:48 < fake> cool
16:48 < fake> now if only i'd have the 16bit fb driver ready... *sigh*
16:57 * daja77 kicks svn
16:58 < fake> ... SignOff svn  #rocklinux (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:59 < daja77> O_o
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17:05 < daja77> running RockLinux 2.0.1 configuration
17:05 < daja77> sounds cool
17:26 < mnemoc> will anyone write something about rock@clt?
17:26 < mnemoc> just to know what's the ship direction
17:26 < blindy> mnemoc: -<censored comment>-
17:27 < mnemoc> :(
17:41 -!- kasal [~kasal@ka23.karlin.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #rocklinux
17:42 < kasal> hello
17:42 < kasal> 
17:42 < mnemoc> hi
17:43 < kasal> I'd like to ask a question:
17:43 * blindy --> gym
17:43 < mnemoc> cu blindy 
17:43 < kasal> I had mozilla-1.5 from 2.0-rc2 on my machine; now I run scripts/Emerge-Pkg mozilla
17:44 < kasal> The script builds the new package, then merges the file list with the old file list, so I ended up with 8000 files for mozilla
17:45 < kasal> as the /usr/lib/mozilla-1.5 was packed together with /usr/lib/mozilla-1.6.
17:45 < kasal> What am I doing wrong?
17:46 < kasal> cu blindy, too
17:46 < daja77> mine -r mozilla
17:46 < kasal> OK, but that way I loose the -update feature.
17:47 < daja77> you loose what?
17:47 < daja77> -o
17:47 < daja77> and why would that be so bad
17:47 < darix> clifford: 
17:47 < darix> 17:39:45 <@sussman> wow, SubMaster is interesting.  It looks exactly like svk.
17:47 < darix> 17:39:50 <@sussman> it's even written in perl.
17:47 < darix> 17:40:04 <@sussman> who is Clifford Wolf, and why did he write it?
17:47 < kasal> Well, in case of my mozilla not problem, I can do mine -r.
17:48 < mnemoc> mozilla's config is at $HOME :)
17:48 < kasal> Sure, you are right.
17:48 < daja77> darix: what is svk?
17:48 < mnemoc> darix: submaster is designed for rock's context which is very 'special'
17:49 < kasal> But why does the Emerge have to carry all the old files?
17:49 < darix> daja77: distributed repositories on top of svk
17:49 < darix> err
17:49 < darix> svn
17:49 < darix> :)
17:49 < darix> daja77: look on svn link page
17:50 < kasal> Or, from the other end: is there a general way to "update" a package?  I mean to preserve config files (if any), but to remove old intalled files.
17:51 < daja77> mine -i foo.gem
17:51 < mnemoc> daja77: what happens to libfoo-2.1.1.so -> libfoo-2.1.2.so ?
17:52 < mnemoc> first get removed?
17:52 < daja77> dunno haven't looked at it in detail
17:52 < SMP> kasal: mine -r won't remove files that have been modified
17:54 < kasal> SMP: OK, let's suppose I run "mine -r foo; ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg foo".  First mine doesn't remove modified files, but it does remove the md5 sum filelist, right?
17:56 < kasal> SMP: then I run Emerge-Pkg, it would say that it ignores "-update" as the package is not installed, so the build process inadvertently replace all my dear config files, right?  I don't like this, of course.
17:57 < kasal> daja77: you suggest "mine -i foo.gem". But that means that I have to run a whole new build to obtain the gem.
17:58 < daja77> scripts/Emerge-Pkg does the same as mine -i iirc
17:58 < kasal> daja77: I'm looking for a way to run build of the package "foo" only.
18:00 < SMP> kasal: I agree that this could use some improvement
18:05 < netrunner> kasal: scripts/Build-Pkg foo
18:05 < kasal> SMP: it should go like this: 1) backup modified 2) remove else 3) build 4) merge new flist with the backuped
18:06 < kasal> netrunner: scripts/Build-Pkg merges the new flist with the old one, which is wrong, in this case
18:06 < kasal> Why do we need to keep the old flist?
18:07 < mnemoc> it's used on build-target
18:07 < daja77> maybe because Buil-Pkg could fail
18:08 < kasal> daja77: no, this is when the build suceeded, just before packaging: we add all the files from old version to the list.
18:08 < daja77> sounds broken
18:09 < kasal> mnemoc: I'd say so.  So I'd leave that "feature" hidden under an option which would only build-target use.
18:10 < kasal> Or I can try to remove it unconditionally, submit to SM, and wait for comments.  When will 2.1 development start?
18:11 < SMP> we don't know
18:13 < kasal> Thanks to all for comments, and good bye, I have to leave now.
18:13 -!- kasal [~kasal@ka23.karlin.mff.cuni.cz] has quit ("Leaving")
18:15 < mnemoc> what was the bash command for listing the vars?
18:15 < th> export
18:15 < mnemoc> uhm?
18:15 < th> or env
18:15 < mnemoc> no... i mean foo*
18:16 < th> tab competion?
18:16 < mnemoc> there is a ${somtheing)
18:16 < th> export|grep ;)
18:16 < mnemoc> :)
18:16 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has joined #rocklinux
18:17 < mnemoc> echo ${!foo*} :)
18:19 < uppo> Hi everybody!  Is this md5sum correct:  drock-2.0.0-final-clt-rev2490-x86-pentium-mmx_cd3.iso.md5 ??
18:20 < uppo> It is the second time that I download the image and I get a failure when I verify the signature.
18:22 < cchamilt> geez svk makes svn almost as good as tla
18:24 < mnemoc> only if svn get support for symlinks :)
18:25 < cchamilt> yeah, drops bdb or embeds it, and gets a clue about not being part of apache...
18:25 < darix> cchamilt: whats wrong with bdb in svn?
18:26 < mnemoc> it get corrupted a bit often
18:26 < cchamilt> bdb is evil in general, especially on something that has persisting dbs, not just storing current program info.
18:27 < cchamilt> bdb breaks its own binary compatiblity all the time, plus you have to chase its api.
18:27 < mnemoc> http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/scm.html <--- really good articule
18:27 < cchamilt> its fine for things that dump db quick, like ldap.
18:27 < darix> we had wedged repository oly for 2 times.
18:27 < darix> only 
18:27 < darix> at that was pre 0.40
18:27 < darix> at that was pre 0.30
18:28 < cchamilt> as a distro-centric looking person.  I dont mind bdb use, only when it becomes version specific and the rest of the *nix world moves to a new version.
18:29 < cchamilt> embedding bdb fixes issues i have with it
18:29 < darix> cchamilt: as long i can dump my db -> move to a new version -> load dump i dont care ;)
18:31 < mnemoc> th: can i use export to list functions?
18:31 < cchamilt> yeah, that is fine too - though it takes extra effort for svn people to track it.
18:33 < darix> cchamilt: there is a developer who tries to change the svn backend to use mysql for storage. but the last comment i heard from him was: bdb is the right tool for the job ;)
18:33 < cchamilt> i am ok with svn in general(though i think rock needs a truly decentralized system), i dont like bdb's development strategy or believe much of their 'we didnt break things' they always say.
18:34 < cchamilt> oh no, for what svn uses bdb for, it needs something like bdb.  just wish bdb was better
18:34 < darix> hmm
18:35 < mnemoc> in general mysql sucks more than bdb :)
18:35 < darix> maybe i should suggest sqlite than.
18:35 < darix> its embedable too.
18:35 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has left #rocklinux ("Leaving")
18:35 < cchamilt> sql is a tool for open ended structures.
18:36 < darix> cchamilt: http://www.sqlite.org/
18:36 < cchamilt> just putting a copy of their favorite bdb in a bdb directory and statically linking would fix things.
18:36 < darix> SQLite is a C library that implements an embeddable SQL database engine. Programs that link with the SQLite library can have SQL database access without running a separate RDBMS process. The distribution comes with a standalone command-line access program (sqlite) that can be used to administer an SQLite database and which serves as an example of how to use the SQLite library.
18:36 < darix> SQLite is not a client library used to connect to a big database server. SQLite is the server. The SQLite library reads and writes directly to and from the database files on disk.
18:37 < darix> cchamilt: i maintain my own rpms ... and i was fine so far. 
18:37 < cchamilt> sql is my problem there.  svn doesnt need sql.
18:38 < cchamilt> how many select joins is svn going to run...
18:38 < th> mnemoc: sorry i can't tell you that
18:41 < darix> cchamilt: dunno =)
18:41 < cchamilt> mnemoc: stage 9 is STILL building.  though only python is not building correctly so it is cool.
18:42 < cchamilt> darix: it is just that the sql language is to open ended for something as simple as what svn does.  
18:45 -!- nowx [~nowx@62-99-150-106.static.adsl-line.inode.at] has joined #rocklinux
18:47 < SMP> mnemoc: declare -f
19:03 -!- cap [~cap@p213.54.117.189.tisdip.tiscali.de] has left #rocklinux ()
19:05 -!- nowx [~nowx@62-99-150-106.static.adsl-line.inode.at] has quit ("Leaving")
19:14 < mnemoc> SMP: thanks :)
19:14 * mnemoc kicks th
19:18 -!- owl [~owl@aszlig.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
19:30 < daja77> re
19:31 < rxr> rehi
19:31 < daja77> hi rxr
19:33 < mnemoc> hi rxr
19:35 < th> hmmm i can't deselect .gem and i can't select .tbz2 in that desktop target
19:35 < th> is that considered a bug or a feature?
19:36 < mnemoc> work in progress?
19:37 < th> "work"?
19:37 < mnemoc> :(
19:37 < th> hm?
19:38 < mnemoc> you are talking about gasgui?
19:38 < th> aehm aehm. i don't think so
19:38 < th> i'm talking about that dialog-alike looking ./scripts/Config thingie.
19:39 < mnemoc> expert -> pkgsel -> '- foo'
19:39 < th> what for?
19:40 < mnemoc> =X= .gem = = .tbz2 <--- you mean this?
19:40 < th> ack
19:40 < mnemoc> =)
19:40 < daja77> yep it is preselected in desktop target
19:40 < mnemoc> i'm quite stupid these days
19:41 < th> daja77: but there is some gem2tbz2 tool?
19:41 < daja77> yep mine :)
19:41 < th> fine
19:48 < SMP> mine -k pkg_tarbz2 foo.gem > foo.tar.bz2
19:49 < daja77> yep
20:00 < rxr> th: if you want a tar.bz2 desktop - just remove the one line in target/desktop/config.sh (or what the filename was)
20:01 < th> rxr: yes. it's not that i want to have tbz2 instead of gem - it's just that i want to know why i could not change it (without touching config.in)
20:01 < th> s,want,wanted,2
20:03 < rxr> th: yeah - targets can lock options ;-)
20:03 < th> rxr: okay ;)
20:03 < rxr> SMP: did you do any cross work ?
20:03 < SMP> I got stage 1 cross build without a problem
20:04 < SMP> the problem was the check_asm think in linux24-header.conf - I submitted a diff to sm, but it was not correct for sparc64
20:06 < rxr> SMP: what did you change?
20:09 < SMP> rxr: https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2004031120043903600
20:10 < rxr> you had no other problem during cross-compile?
20:10 < SMP> nope
20:11 < rxr> :-(
20:11 < rxr> ok - thanks
20:11 < SMP> rxr: what's the use of listing the arch/<...>/kernel/Makefile as the first target at that point? I think it's superfluous
20:11 < SMP> no problem means ":-)" ;)
20:12 < SMP> bbl
20:12 < rxr> SMP: :-( means but I have problems - and you do not get those means I'Ll have fun tracking them ...
20:13 < rxr> SMP: IIRC this is to only this makefile - just the header generation crap in it ...
20:28 < rxr> rehi
20:33 -!- Netsplit wells.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: praenti, dsoul
20:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: dsoul
20:41 < rxr> argh damn shit fuckins smap.sh
20:43 -!- praenti [mo2@biersorten.dyndns.org] has joined #rocklinux
20:48 -!- MadmaxVTX [~Madmax@blk2-226-202.eastlink.ca] has joined #rocklinux
20:49 -!- MadmaxVTX [~Madmax@blk2-226-202.eastlink.ca] has left #rocklinux ("Leaving")
20:56 < rxr> hi praenti 
20:56 < rxr> praenti: thanks for the SCSI disc!
21:00 * netrunner downloading/test-building 2.6.4
21:16 < th> rxr: you patching always starts shortly after i started a build ;-)
21:17 < mnemoc> omg!
21:19 < mnemoc> [SM] flooooods
21:19 < daja77> yep
21:19 < daja77> hard to find mails in them :)
21:21 < th> whimps! adapt your maildroppings.
21:21 < mnemoc> haha
21:23 < rxr> th: sorry - I have still no inet at home - thus this storms ... :-(
21:23 < rxr> daja77: sort them into another folder ...
21:24 < th> rxr: no matter ;-)
21:24 < daja77> rxr: not in a webmailer
21:25 < th> daja77: why can't u use a real MUA?
21:26 < daja77> th: i normally do but the machine on which it was running is down atm
21:26 < mnemoc> your damaged laptop?
21:28 < daja77> no my damaged build machine
21:29 < th> daja77: i see..
21:30 < daja77> i am surprised that this crappy webmailer can handle this more tha 260 mails at all
21:30 < daja77> i really should get rid of that provider
21:31 < th> *blink*
21:31 < daja77> hm?
21:31 < th> *scnr*
21:31 < daja77> hehe
21:37 < mnemoc> rxr: any comments about 2004011021454220456 ?
21:37 < th> .oO( quite a real big number. )
21:38 < mnemoc> just a timestamp :)
21:46 < th> i think i should stop my desktop build at revision 2507 due to sed problems. glibc23 gzip texinfo gcc3 tar - failed so far.
21:49 < mnemoc> if we had a proper stage 1 we could force abort on errors $stage<=2
21:49 < th> mnemoc: you mean i should upgrade my build machine's sed?
21:49 < mnemoc> me?
21:50 < rxr> th: oO
21:50 < rxr> th: what sed do you have on your machine?
21:50 < mnemoc> .oO( is my english THAT bad? )
21:50 < th> rxr: GNU sed version 3.02
21:50 < th> mnemoc: you did not say that directly
21:50 < rxr> th: and it does not support -I in-place substiution ?
21:50 < th> mnemoc: but you mentioned "proper stage1"
21:50 < th> rxr: sed: invalid option -- I
21:51 < mnemoc> i meaned a proper set of packages :)
21:51 < rxr> th: ok - update it ...
21:51 < th> rxr: ok.
21:51 < th> mnemoc: ok. so take my question as void
21:51 < mnemoc> =)
21:53 < mnemoc> rxr: is something wrong in adding important packages (such this sed thing, autoconf, ...) to the pseudocross stage?
21:53 < mnemoc> (instead of increasing restrictions)
21:53 < th> mnemoc: btw. these where stage[1] failures
21:53 < mnemoc> sure
21:54 < mnemoc> stage1 is build using stage0+local tools
21:54 < netrunner> mnemoc: I'd say in this case it wouldn't help since sed -I is used before it would be built ...
21:54 < mnemoc> then it shouldn't be used there
21:55 < netrunner> it's been in sed for 2(?) years now. one should assume you have it, if not, you can upgrade. 
21:55 < netrunner> having to old versions lying around is never good. also for security..
21:56 < mnemoc> i was thinking in decresing bad impressions for newcomers
21:57 < mnemoc> they can install that old linux they have on a cd from long time ago to start a rockbuild
21:58 < netrunner> th: what system do you have there? how old is it?
21:59 < th> netrunner: it's a 1.5-stablelizing fork
22:01 < mnemoc> it could be a rock-1.4 which can't be used to build rock-2.0.... this doesn't sound good
22:01 < th> exactly
22:03 < mnemoc> im*H*o this kind of compatibility is much important than supporing extra-galactic hardware
22:03 < rolla> szweet
22:04 < rolla> glibcx 2.3.2 is done
22:04 < netrunner> *new* users certainly don't have rock-1.4 and those who have it now by now how to update a package
22:05 < daja77> ack it is more important than we can build on other recent distros ;)
22:05 < mnemoc> welll if we can't build in a recient distro we are quite bad :\
22:06 < netrunner> we should better give out minimal isos that suffice to build rock
22:06 < daja77> we sometimes cannot
22:06 < mnemoc> i uploaded a minimal-pmmx a week before clt... no idea what happened to it
22:07 < mnemoc> (to rene's)
22:07 < rolla> what is the best fs to use for a rock build area?
22:08 < rolla> ext3 , resierfs,  xfs?
22:08 < th> a sort of ram fs?
22:08 < th> tmpfs?
22:08 < rolla> ah it is going to be on a raid5 set
22:08 < rolla> so I don't think tmpfs would be good
22:09 < rxr> th: tmpfs can be enabled in the Config
22:09 < th> raid5 on ECC reg. hi performance RAM... hmmm. nice
22:09 < th> rxr: i know. that's why i answered that way
22:09 < mnemoc> *phullavadana*
22:09 < netrunner> maybe we give out a bootstrap system, like minimal/only tools that is loaded to a ramdisk (in a running system) and then build from there
22:09 < rxr> mnemoc: th: the sed is a rather neat feature - we can Paranois-Check for it ...
22:10 < mnemoc> my comment was deeper than that :\
22:10 < rxr> building on recent distros patches will always be accepted
22:10 < th> GNU sed version 4.0.8
22:10 < th> sed: invalid option -- I
22:10 < rxr> we already fixed the devfs dep and clifford fixed the chown usage
22:10 < th> perhaps you all mean -i
22:10 < th> ?
22:10 < rxr> to not use the "." delimitar - but use ":" ...
22:10 < daja77> rxr: will try a build under knoppix soon
22:10 < netrunner> rxr: even one that reverts all in-place sed stuff? ;)
22:10 < rxr> th: ah yes - might be -i ...
22:10 < rxr> netrunner: hm?
22:11 < netrunner> rxr: isn't that invalid option the in-place substitution of sed?
22:11 < rxr> netrunner: nope - recent SuSE ship a newer sed version
22:11 < rxr> netrunner: -i
22:11 < rxr> netrunner: my memory has no ECC ...
22:11 < netrunner> ;)
22:12 < rolla> th: I think I will just stick with reiserfs
22:12 < rolla> start my alpha build tonight
22:12 < th> rolla: to be honest. i really don't know. but i'd prefer ext3 or xfs
22:13 < rolla> really
22:13 < rolla> maybe I'll give xfs a try never used it
22:13 < rxr> th: rolla: reiserfs is much faster in my benchs for this ROCK Linux use case of normal to small sized files - with many temporary ones ...
22:14 < th> rxr: even much faster than xfs?
22:14 < rxr> I meant ext2/ext3 - I never used xfs :-(
22:15 < rolla> hmm okay
22:15 < rxr> but ext3 is often slower then ext2 ... - or did you experienced it to be faster using the same feature set?
22:15 < th> rxr: never compared performance of ext[23].
22:15 < netrunner> at least ext3 has the fall back to be mounted as ext2. 
22:16 < th> and that's exactly what i love about it.
22:22 < rxr> I never had a ReiserFS problem - I'm happy with it on all my normal machines
22:23 < rxr> (I do not have it on my SPARCs because the kernel relies on kernel header byteswapping which does not work in this way on sparc ...)
22:23 < rxr> erhm - because the user-space tools rely on kernel-headers of course
22:23 < th> i had real problems with reiser. that was with kernel version 2.2
22:23 * rxr doing too much in parallel
22:23 < rxr> th: I have not used it that early ...
22:24 < rxr> I only had speed problem w/ NFS (w/ < 2.4.10 or so)
22:24 < th> rxr: and i stopped using it that early
22:24 < daja77> yep danimo told me that reiser should be quite stable now
22:24 < rxr> and some speed problems on Soft-RAID(-5) devices ...
22:24 < rxr> have you all took a look to my 2nd last mail @ rock-devel ?
22:28 -!- dsoul [darksoul@info.ii.uj.edu.pl] has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:28 < blindy> rxr: feature freeze?
22:29 < blindy> or more editors?
22:29 < netrunner> hm, no mails on .sm since 4 days ...
22:30 < netrunner> 2nd-last mail on .devel was re: 2.0.0 -> future
22:30 < mnemoc> rxr: can you _please_ add some comments to pending patches which are without 'objections'?
22:30 < blindy> netrunner: ? there were tons of mails today! rxr has worked a lot today
22:30 * netrunner has not gotten any :(
22:30 < daja77> netrunner: mails setup screwed?
22:31 < netrunner> daja77: nope, other mails (saim mail account) arrive.
22:31 < daja77> hm
22:33 < blindy> oh, now I got the mail he mentioned...
22:34 < blindy> okay, I'll call him crazy if he wants it that way :)
22:35 * netrunner found 323 unread mails in some spool :(
22:35 < mnemoc> rxr: will 2.0.1 include fake's patches?
22:36 < blindy> netrunner: procmail b0rken?
22:38 < netrunner> blindy: race condition in co-existence with broken stupid *** freemailserver
22:39 < netrunner> "time between logins too short, has to be at least 15 minutes" ... resetting counter.
22:39 < blindy> oh
22:39 < rxr> mnemoc: only if I have too much time
22:39 < rxr> mnemoc: maybe the smarter kernel selection or so
22:39 < blindy> netrunner: get a _real_ email address :P
22:40 < th> hehe
22:40 < rxr> mnemoc: those patches are too intrusive and not really needed since a linux24-header forms a perfect 2.6 kernel system
22:40 < mnemoc> rxr: people tend to '- linux24*'
22:40 < mnemoc> rxr: and that brokes everything
22:41 < mnemoc> rxr: how do you plan to solve it? patch kernel headers to be more user-space friendly?
22:43 < mnemoc> if the answer is 'yes', take a look here -> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/sm-discuss/2004-February/005322.html
22:43 < netrunner> ah, linux26 built flawless
22:44 < mnemoc> a clean checkout?
22:44 < netrunner> blindy: how do you #define real email adress
22:44 < mnemoc> without linux24?
22:44 < rxr> mnemoc: I'm not sure how to fix it right (tm)
22:46 < blindy> netrunner: chosenalias@anythingusable_eg_nofreemailer.${tld}
22:47 < th> something@foobr.de ;)
22:47 < netrunner> something@--xnfoobrdn.de you mean? ;)
22:47 < blindy> oh no... IdioticDomainNames
22:47 < th> blindy: yea
22:48 < blindy> I want ܭ.de
22:48 < th> netrunner: xn--foobr-jra.de to be exactly
22:48 < blindy> Register THAT!
22:48 < th> hehehe
22:48 < netrunner> is already registered.
22:49 < blindy> damn
22:49 < netrunner> th: yes, true :)
22:49 < th> netrunner: of course it's true. it's connected ;)
22:49 < th> domain:      .de
22:49 < th> domain-ace:  xn--ss-liaaakbn0am8d9afus5ide.de
22:49 < th> status:      invalid
22:50 < blindy> invalid?
22:50 < th> ack
22:50 < th> might be that hyphen
22:51 < blindy> d'oh
22:51 < th> no. it's not that hyphen
22:52 < blindy> now I'm just curious when the first idiot^Wuser will try to register a domainname containing some WingDings characters...
22:52 < th> it's the capital 
22:52 < daja77> lol
22:53 < blindy> and the first drone^Wmarketing guy to actually sell one
22:54 < blindy> anyway, I'm off to bed
22:54 < blindy> good night
22:54 < th>  is invalid
22:54 < blindy> wish me luck so that I can survive from tomorrow till sunday
22:54 < th> -.de would be valid
22:54 < blindy> th: you're kidding!
22:54 < th> blindy: shall i register that one for you?
22:55 < th> blindy: no i'm serious
22:55 < th> blindy: http://www.denic.de/de/domains/idns/liste.html
22:55 < th> blindy: that's the whitelist of allowed chars
22:55 < blindy> *click*
22:56 < th> i really don't see why  is not allowed.
22:56 < blindy> they have eth, they have thorn... but no ?
22:57 < th> strange
23:00 < darix> hmm
23:00 < darix> i want www.<darix/>.de
23:00 < darix> thats a valid hostname too!
23:00 < blindy> sorry, no < / and > for you
23:01 < daja77>  /..org ^^
23:01 < blindy> muahaha
23:01 < netrunner> ah, local delivery error, there is one mail that cannot be delivered locally, and fetchmail stops working out the others.
23:01 < blindy> ->.ch
23:01 < daja77> netrunner: fetchmail is crap
23:01 < netrunner> daja77: alternative?
23:01 < blindy> netrunner: that's why I have direct forwarding using an /etc/aliases entry :P
23:02 < netrunner>  /ignore blindy
23:02 < blindy> netrunner: like I said, get a REAL mail address
23:02 < netrunner> blindy: how real would you like to have it? the problem persists, it's the local mta.
23:02 < blindy> netrunner: I don't have fetchmail on ANY of my machines, and I get ALL my mails delivered to me. no IMAP. That's how real it's got to be.
23:03 < blindy> and that's including the @bingo-ev.de mails
23:03 < darix> clifford: im just about sending a patch for the subversion links page. should i add submaster?
23:03 < daja77> netrunner: there is one, forgot the name ...
23:04 < netrunner> darix: I've also added a submaster patch to submaster, so why not? :)
23:04 < cytrinox`> gn8
23:04 < darix> netrunner: you mean to subversion?
23:04 < netrunner> darix: as I wrote.
23:05 < blindy> anyway, I'm off. won't be back until monday... wish me luck!
23:05 < darix> netrunner: that doesnt make sense too me 
23:05 < darix> -o 
23:05 < daja77> blindy: good luck
23:05 < netrunner> darix: I created a patch to sm.pl and uploaded it using itself
23:05 < blindy> netrunner: btw. your patch was rejected quite noisily :)
23:05 < darix> netrunner: err.
23:05 < netrunner> blindy: which?
23:05 < blindy> netrunner: the submaster one
23:06 < netrunner> hm, have to wait for the mails, but clifford always causes noise ;)
23:06 < th> i'm off now too. cya later.
23:06 < blindy> https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2004030722343819526
23:06 < blindy> @netrunner
23:07 < blindy> netrunner: btw: chomp($url=<F>); chomp($user=<F>); chomp($pass=<F>); does remove whitespace
23:08 < darix> netrunner: i mean:
23:08 < darix>       <li><b>submaster</b> - SubMaster is a system for distributed$
23:08 < darix>         software development, based on Subversion.<br>$
23:08 < darix>         <a href="http://www.rocklinux.org/submaster.html">$
23:08 < darix>         http://www.rocklinux.org/submaster.html</a>$
23:08 < darix>       </li>$
23:08 < darix> for: http://subversion.tigris.org/project_links.html
23:09 < blindy> anyway, have to be okay tomorrow for those two girls...
23:10 < netrunner> rxr: THIS IS NOT RANDOM JUNK BUT A FIX TO THE VERY BASIC FUNCTIONALLITY OF THAT PAGE AND SUBMASTER. 
23:10 < blindy> bye
23:10 < netrunner> rxr: and don't shout at me.
23:11 < daja77> rxr shouted?
23:11 < netrunner> daja77: yes. i hope this was a mistake.
23:11 < daja77> i don't see a shouting apart from yours ...
23:12 < netrunner> daja77: https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2004030722343819526
23:13 < daja77> ic
23:13 < rxr> netrunner: but not ROCK Linux !
23:13 < rxr> netrunner: sent it to clifford!
23:14 < mnemoc> it's implicit that sm=JUNK
23:14 < rxr> send even ...
23:14 < mnemoc> :p
23:14 < rxr> mnemoc: you sniffed my mails to clifford ... :-( !!!
23:14 < mnemoc> LOL
23:14 < daja77> LOL
23:14 < rxr> damn smap.sh crap has not been friendly to me lately ...
23:15 < SMP> re
23:15 < mnemoc> rxr: 2004011514184823418 <--- comment?
23:15 < netrunner> rxr: on no place of this smadm.cgi is written that it is only for ROCK. and I can react to friendly comments also.
23:18 < rxr> netrunner: it was not meant to be unfriendly ;-)
23:18 < netrunner> rxr: sounded differen. and loud.
23:19 < rxr> netrunner: just read it with a smile and send it to ober-guru Clifford ;-)
23:19 < netrunner> done. /me relaxing a bit again.
23:19 < rxr> ouhm
23:20 < rxr> I would need to play with this patch before I apply it ...
23:20 < rxr> maybe I do so tomorrow
23:20 < rxr> btw. this is run from the stage2 bootdisk - why do you assume /etc/lcmtab contains useful content?
23:21 < netrunner> rxr: I have finished a desktop build. (ignore errors from my packages ;) http://waterworld.dyndns.org/~andreas/rocklinux/err/vlad-2.0.1-x86-pentium3-32-desktop-expert/
23:22 < rxr> netrunner: which revision?
23:23 < SMP> rxr: do you need help at Cebit?
23:23 < rxr> ;-)
23:23 < netrunner> rxr: started on monday.
23:23 < rxr> we only seem to get two cards - which are already marked with Ren and Daniel ...
23:24 < rxr> but if you like to join anyway it would be really helpful!
23:24 < SMP> well I could always just buy a ticked - although I wasn't planning on going there
23:24 < netrunner> I might be able to organize cards if I get a place to stay there ...
23:25 * netrunner takes the cards from the security guards of Dr. v. Pierer ;) last time I even had his card
23:25 < rxr> well - my family lives 40km near Hannover - but I do not yet know how happy they will be to host group of us hackers ...
23:26 < SMP> I'm 100km away, no big deal going there
23:27 < rxr> the Linux New Media AG seems to be quite happy about ROCK attending the booth - and immediately asked that we should come next year, too ;-)!
23:27 < mnemoc> oh
23:30 < SMP> it's fascinating to see that apparently Rene's MUA insists on doing a group-reply, even though the list messages already include a reply-to header ;-)
23:31 < SMP> WHAT THE HECK
23:32 < rxr> SMP: if I find free time I'll tell the author of Mew about this ...
23:32 < SMP> what the heck is this: 
23:33 < SMP> $ svn up
23:33 < SMP> A  avm
23:33 < SMP> A  avm/noteedit
23:33 < SMP> A  avm/noteedit/noteedit.conf
23:33 < SMP> A  avm/noteedit/noteedit.desc
23:33 < SMP> (under trunk/ )
23:33 < netrunner> huh, just saw it, too
23:34 < SMP> svn goofing or Rene?
23:34 < netrunner> the patch is ok, maybe applypatch in the wrong dir assumed -p1 or so
23:35 * netrunner feeling priviledged having a toplevel dir
23:35 < rxr> SMP: oh my god - damn smap.sh ...
23:38 < netrunner> http://www.chip.de/news/c_news_11643711.html
23:39 < SMP> netrunner: old
23:40 < netrunner> SMP: just got the mail from my friend who announced it. and I haven't read that link here.
23:42 < SMP> I pasted it on monday afternoon ;)
23:42 < netrunner> ah :)
23:42 < rxr> rehi
23:42 < rxr> damn fuse just crashed my kernel ...
23:43 < rxr> ok - n8 all - cu tomorrow
23:43 < netrunner> n8 rxr
23:43 < netrunner> good idea. n8 *
23:43 < mnemoc> tar.gz?
23:43 < mnemoc> n8 rxr
23:45 -!- A-Tui [~aitor@cable74a018.usuarios.retecal.es] has joined #rocklinux
23:45 < A-Tui> hola
23:46 < mnemoc> A-Tui: la 'gracia' de hoy fue ETA?
23:47 < A-Tui> mnemoc, si :(
23:47 < A-Tui> aunque yo no estoy tan seguro que fuera ETA
23:47 < mnemoc> por?
23:47 < A-Tui> es slo mi opinin, pero a ETA no le interesa este tipo de atentados
23:48 < mnemoc> un nuevo grupo? un montaje?
23:48 < A-Tui> nunca ha realizado atentados de esta magnitud ni en los que no hubiera "objetivos" desde el 87
23:48 < A-Tui> mnemoc, no has oido las noticias
23:48 < A-Tui> se ha encontrado una furgoneta con detonadores y una cinta con versos del coran
23:48 < mnemoc> musulmanes??
23:49 < A-Tui> y una carta a un diario rabe en londres da la autora a Al-Qaeda
23:49 < A-Tui> como "ajuste de cuentas" por lo de Iraq
23:49 < A-Tui> no se, eso slo importa polticamente
23:49 < A-Tui> el domingo hay elecciones
23:50 < A-Tui> muy mal da hoy :(
23:50 < mnemoc> interesante
23:51 < A-Tui> mnemoc, las investigaciones ahora no descartan nada
23:51 < SMP> "muy mal da hoy" = "today is a very bad day"?
23:51 < A-Tui> mi opinin es que es cosa del ingregismo musulmn (aunque no lo se muy bien)
23:51 < A-Tui> SMP, yes
23:51 * SMP trying to follow the conversation
23:51 < SMP> fascinating ;)
23:52 < A-Tui> ok, we can speak in english then :)
23:52 * daja77 too
23:52 < A-Tui> i live just between Madrid and Bilbao (Vasque Country)
23:59 < mnemoc> i found hard to believe that Al-Qaeda had choosed to atack spain first
--- Log closed Fri Mar 12 00:00:17 2004