--- Log opened Son Apr 11 00:00:45 2004
00:18 < netrunner> daja77: !
00:30 < cytrinox> gn8
00:35 < daja77> *ggg*
00:37 < daja77> n8 you alll
00:43 < MadTux> oyasumi daja77-chan
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02:42 ::: Topic for #rocklinux: ROCK Linux 2.0.0 released! http://www.rocklinux.org/rock20.html
02:42 ::: Topic set by SMP  Mon Mar  8 01:33:41 2004
02:42 Users #rocklinux:
02:42 [ _JimBoy ] [ daja77] [ ija    ] [ netrunne1] [ s701418_] [ th       ] 
02:42 [ Aard    ] [ darix ] [ MadTux ] [ netrunner] [ SMP     ] [ togg     ] 
02:42 [ blindy  ] [ dsoul ] [ mistik1] [ owl      ] [ snyke   ] [ trekkie3k] 
02:42 [ clifford] [ fake  ] [ mnemoc ] [ rolla    ] [ StefanG ] [ true     ] 
02:42 [ cytrinox] [ Freak ] [ netcrow] [ rxr      ] [ tfing   ] 
02:42 ::: Irssi: #rocklinux: 29 nicks (@/0 +/0  -/0)
02:42 ::: Channel #rocklinux created Sun Aug  3 22:11:35 2003
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04:12 < MadTux> hi blindy
04:27 < MadTux> Nacht!
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09:35 < owl> happy easter
09:35 < owl> moin
11:14 < blindy> moin
11:19 < blindy> wow, nice patch-orgy
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12:08 < rxr> rehi
12:08 < rxr> hm - I'll switch of my v.90 modem - cu later
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12:44 < martin> hi
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15:30 < cytrinox> moin
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17:42 < martin> hi
17:44 < nookie> hey martin :)
17:48 < martin> hi nookie
18:37 < blindy> rehi
18:46 < nookie> wb blindy 
19:14 < rxr> re
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19:52 ::: Topic for #rocklinux: ROCK Linux 2.0.0 released! http://www.rocklinux.org/rock20.html
19:52 ::: Topic set by SMP  Mon Mar  8 01:33:41 2004
19:52 Users #rocklinux:
19:52 [ _JimBoy ] [ cytrinox ] [ Freak  ] [ netrunne1] [ rxr     ] [ tfing] 
19:52 [ Aard    ] [ daja77   ] [ ija    ] [ netrunner] [ s701418_] [ th   ] 
19:52 [ blindy  ] [ darix    ] [ martin ] [ nookie   ] [ SMP     ] [ togg ] 
19:52 [ bluefire] [ dsoul    ] [ mistik1] [ owl      ] [ snyke   ] [ true ] 
19:52 [ cchamilt] [ esden|zZz] [ mnemoc ] [ praenti  ] [ StefanG ] 
19:52 [ clifford] [ fake     ] [ netcrow] [ rolla    ] [ tcr     ] 
19:52 ::: Irssi: #rocklinux: 34 nicks (@/0 +/0  -/0)
19:52 ::: Channel #rocklinux created Sun Aug  3 22:11:35 2003
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20:22 < tcr> moin all
20:22 < tcr> mnemoc, ping
20:22 < tcr> cchamilt, ping
20:22 < praenti> ping blindy
20:22 < praenti> hi
20:22 < martin> cu
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20:24 < tcr> hehe, praenti.. lots of long-lasting pings... crappy network connection, eh?
20:24 < praenti> tcr: it is normal here :-)
20:32 < mistik1> who is the Xwindows hacking guru ?
20:33 < tcr> mistik1, rxr did hack a bit on X
20:33 < mistik1> ok
20:33 < praenti> btw. at the moment i also did a little bit
20:33 < mistik1> I'll just list what i'm after and see if someone has any ideas
20:33 < tcr> mistik1, howso, as he seems away, you should probably better join some X spec. channel
20:33 < praenti> wanted to create a package for X.org
20:34 < tcr> *howsoever
20:34 < mistik1> I have a situation where I need to have my users press a key combination and launch a support application no matter what window manager or desktop they are using
20:34 * tcr is currently a bit confused about the several different X forks or teams that rised up recently. Especially after the license change...
20:35 < praenti> btw. X.org compiled in my build :-). One patch needs to be reviewed. some others are not necessary anymore. and rest applies correctly
20:35 < mistik1> xorg is the only way to fly
20:35 < praenti> tomorrow i will try to submit it to submaster
20:35 < tcr> mistik1, I don't think so
20:36 < mistik1> I have my reasons why I know so
20:36 < tcr> mistik1, AFAIK xmodmap directly access X and doesn't go over the window manager
20:36 < mistik1> Xorg is so far the only one going in the direction I want to see X goto
20:36 < praenti> mistik1: yeah. i also think so :-)
20:36 < tcr> mistik1, I suppose Xorg is the one of the old team?
20:37 < tcr> so traditional X, if you want to call it so?
20:37 < mistik1> old and new
20:37 < mistik1> Xorg has things going on right now that will be a revolution in X windows
20:38 < praenti> tcr: old and new. they are based on a Xfree86 4.4RC
20:38 < tcr> Whatsoever. 
20:38 < mistik1> builtin network audio support
20:38 < mistik1> clientside font rendering
20:38 < mistik1> just to name 2
20:38 < tcr> mistik1, I desired that too (network audio)
20:38 < tcr> mistik1, but after I thought about it, it doesn't make much sense any more
20:39 < praenti> tcr: the most important thing is Keith Packard :-). One of the most active x developers
20:39 < mistik1> It makes all the sense for the project i'm involved with
20:39 < mistik1> praenti: dont forget Jim Gettys
20:39 < praenti> ahh right :-)
20:39 < mistik1> one of the founders of X
20:39 < mistik1> :)
20:40 < tcr> mistik1, really, as in unix's quite everything a file, and so are the audio devices, I think The Right Solution is just to have some listener for these devices which send off packets over network to some daemon for realtime synthezisingsp?) etc
20:40 < mistik1> and now Jim McQuillan of LTSP
20:40 < tcr> And I pretty much assume that something like that does already exist
20:41 < mistik1> exist dont mean its what is needed
20:41 < tcr> Eh?
20:41 < tcr> It's just that X is not the right place for it
20:42 < mistik1> as the person responsible for network audio on LTSP thin-clients I have worked with all of the current impimentations and they all suck badly
20:42 < mistik1> sure it si
20:42 < mistik1> is*
20:42 < mistik1> Its the only place it should be
20:42 < mistik1> X and the kernel
20:42 < tcr> No, because it's way levels too high
20:42 < mistik1> It should be seamless the any userland application
20:42 < tcr> I don't know the current implemantions, but I have to find out soon, 'cause I want a central music station in my room
20:43 < praenti> tcr: no at all. X can be the interface between grahical guis and the kernel, so you need the functionality native in X
20:43 < mistik1> we have, NAS, ESD, ARTS, AWFD, DSPROXY to name a few
20:43 < tcr> I don't know what wrong with the solution I described above.. do you know apparent objections?
20:43 < mistik1> all work in some manner but all are found lacking
20:44 < tcr> But unix's everything is a file concept is especially made for this kind of application
20:44 < tcr> Putting it in X is crap, especially if you mind non-X users
20:44 < praenti> tcr: the problem is that you have a lot of applications which are based on the X System but uses natively kernel things
20:45 < praenti> If you think a little bit more object-orientated that is senseless in most kinds
20:45 < tcr> Don't get me wrong, I'm not against some sound-lib within X (which is arguable, too, howsoever); all I'm against is a sound-over-network solution within X
20:46 < mistik1> how so
20:46 < praenti> tcr: ahh. ok. but that is needed for remote terminal services
20:46 < tcr> mistik1, I just told so
20:46 < tcr> :)
20:46 < praenti> X can do that at the moment very well, but you only see the graphic and nothing else
20:46 < mistik1> X is a client server model in which you could be sitting anywhere and the application is somewhere else altogather, why should X not know how/where to play the sound
20:47 < mistik1> praenti: terminal services is exactly what i'm into
20:47 < praenti> M$ is more in the future here. they also send the sound through the network, so you have a complete thin-client
20:47 < tcr> mistik1, That's arguable, but I'm not against *this* per se
20:48 < praenti> native X could not do that at the moment i think, but i'm not sure about thart
20:48 < tcr> mistik1, All I'm against is implemented sound-over-network in X; X should rather use some mechanism beneath
20:48 < mistik1> tcr: I agree there, I'm just saying X should *know* how to deal with it natively
20:48 < mistik1> I'm not really saying it must be in X itself
20:48 < mistik1> take MAS for example
20:48 < tcr> mistik1, Ah. ok :) small bug in communication
20:49 < mistik1> This will work in much the same way you mentioned
20:49 < mistik1> :)
20:49 < praenti> ahh. crappy communication with too much noise level :-)
20:49 < tcr> Still, it's arguable that X should be able to deal with it natively
20:49 < tcr> I don't take a strong position in that debate though
20:50 < tcr> I can understand both sides, because both have strong points
20:50 < tcr> Maybe X should be splitted off in several parts like...
20:51 < mistik1> praenti: that noise level of X is being addressed by Xorg
20:51 < tcr> a graphical part (mostly that what X's now), and different parts like sound, control whatsoever
20:51 < tcr> the whole package is then a desktop environment 
20:51 < mistik1> that is partly addressed by clientside font rendering
20:52 < praenti> tcr: But I'm still thinking that X.org goes in a direction where X must go. If think back to the fontconfig story, you will see that the X.org team is more modern than Xfree86
20:52 < praenti> what I hated in the Xfree86 Team is the big time between releases...
20:52 < mistik1> tcr: this is much of the type of developments going on at xorg
20:52 < tcr> praenti, I never quite grasped the font thing in linux
20:53 < tcr> praenti, sometimes I got fonts to work, sometimes I don't %)
20:53 < tcr> didnt
20:53 < tcr> mistik1, Actually good then. Are you involved?
20:53 < praenti> mistik1: i have also seen that. X.org is more a distribution of all X parts (Xserver for example)
20:54 < mistik1> praenti: indeed
20:54 < mistik1> tcr: not directly, yet ;-)
20:54 < mistik1> Our project lead is on the development and dicision making team ;)
20:54 < praenti> tcr: you are not the only one, some of my friends too. i have also not get the problem, what is causing that sometime 
20:56 < praenti> the person i'm knowing has only updated his x release. after that staroffice has no functional fonts :-)
20:56 < praenti> was a debian...
20:56 < praenti> but know I must leave
20:57 < praenti> bye
20:57 < tcr> good bye
20:57 < mistik1> bye
20:57 < mistik1> nice chatting with ya
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22:16 ::: Topic for #rocklinux: ROCK Linux 2.0.0 released! http://www.rocklinux.org/rock20.html
22:16 ::: Topic set by SMP  Mon Mar  8 01:33:41 2004
22:16 Users #rocklinux:
22:16 [ _JimBoy ] [ cytrinox ] [ Freak    ] [ nookie  ] [ SMP    ] [ togg] 
22:16 [ Aard    ] [ daja77   ] [ mistik1  ] [ owl     ] [ snyke  ] [ true] 
22:16 [ blindy  ] [ darix    ] [ mnemoc   ] [ praenti ] [ StefanG] 
22:16 [ bluefire] [ dsoul    ] [ netcrow  ] [ rolla   ] [ tcr    ] 
22:16 [ cchamilt] [ esden|zZz] [ netrunne1] [ rxr     ] [ tfing  ] 
22:16 [ clifford] [ fake     ] [ netrunner] [ s701418_] [ th     ] 
22:16 ::: Irssi: #rocklinux: 32 nicks (@/0 +/0  -/0)
22:16 ::: Channel #rocklinux created Sun Aug  3 22:11:35 2003
22:16 ::: [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 12 00:00:02 2004