--- Log opened Sun May 02 00:00:47 2004
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01:02 < daja77> the gnu toolchain just sucks
01:12 < mnemoc> :)
01:12 < daja77> for gcc i need glibc-headers, whic do not build due old assembeler >_<
01:13 < daja77> and so on
01:13 < daja77> which is btw bullshit cos this glibc does build with that assembler ...
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01:21 < mnemoc> can i var_append an empty element?
01:21 < daja77> guess so
01:22 < daja77> anyway don't bother with that crap more before having slept
01:22 < daja77> n8
01:22 < mnemoc> better lcuk tomorrow daja77 
01:22 < mnemoc> luck*
01:22 < daja77> thx >_<
01:23 < daja77> wanna puke? read this http://sources.redhat.com/ml/crossgcc/2003-06/msg00170.html
01:23 < LowLander> evening
01:23  * mnemoc takes a deep breath
01:23 < mnemoc> good $localtime LowLander 
01:25 < LowLander> :-)
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02:33 < mnemoc> evil patch ready for departure
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03:18 < SMP> mnemoc: still there?
04:41 < mnemoc> re
04:41 < mnemoc> SMP: i'll symlink to include/ based on the same libs list i use for .so files
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05:47 < mnemoc> uhm... subversion is broken in both trees :\
05:51 < Aard> some more or less funny stuff: http://bwachter.lart.info/demo.html 
05:51 < Aard> (about 2.4mb, with modgzip ~100k, needs about 80mb ram for rendering the page)
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10:23 < fake> Aard: that's what i call 'inline' graphics *g*
10:24 < fake> i'd
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11:07 < blindy> rehi
11:11 < nookie_> Hi blindy :)
11:31 < rxr> rehi - moin 2 *
11:32 < daja77> moin
11:33 < rxr> moinda
11:33 < daja77> :)
11:33 < rxr> ja77 ;-))
12:00  * rxr now trying:
12:00 < rxr> CVS pserver anoncvs@sources.redhat.com:/cvs/glibc -D 2004-05-01 libc/
12:01 < daja77> .oO (don't remind me)
12:01 < rxr> damn glibc crap
12:01 < daja77> !
12:01 < rxr> they now work on 2.3.4 stuff - without even having a 2.3.3 tarball
12:13 < rxr> ok - next try:
12:13 < rxr> 118M downloaded from CVS archive (download finished).
12:13 < rxr> cksum-test (bzip2): download/base/glibc23/glibc-2.3.4-2004-05-01.tar.bz2
12:15 < daja77> 118mb ...
12:15 < rxr> dowloaded compressed - so less on the wire
12:37 < rxr> == 12:28:39 =[0]=> Building base/glibc23 [2.3.4-2004-05-01 2.1.0-DEV].
12:37 < rxr> == 05/02/04 12:36:24 =[0]=> Finished building package glibc23.
12:37 < rxr> ok - so far so good
12:38 < daja77> .oO (building a cross compiler sucks a big deal)
12:40 < rxr> no - only the uglyness of gcc
12:40 < rxr> and the lack of documentation
12:41 < rxr> AFAIS the rock linux build scripts are the best documentation fo this ...
12:42 < daja77> i fear that's true
12:48 < daja77> their docs are a joke, all it says building a cross compiler might not work like building a native compiler
13:42 < rxr> == 05/02/04 13:33:46 =[0]=> Finished building package gcc3.
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13:43 < rxr> hi janni 
13:43 < janni> hi 
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14:12 < rxr> ok - now it get's interessting:
14:12 < rxr> == 14:07:34 =[1]=> Building base/glibc23 [2.3.4-2004-05-01 2.1.0-DEV].
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14:38 < daja77> rxr: building on ppc?
14:47 < rxr> yes
14:49 < daja77> urgs read gcc3.conf makes me sick
14:59 < rxr> ok - glibc is now doing "localedata"
15:00  * rxr 's iBook si doing too much stuff - like Emerging xemacs in parallel ...
15:02 < daja77> this sucking debian installer gets another /. story 
15:02 < daja77> *gna*
15:03 < lowy> afternoon
15:03 -!- lowy is now known as LowLander
15:05 < daja77> Some of the improvements include experimental support for the 2.6 kernel, on i386 only. *ROTFL*
15:05 < LowLander> ohh is it bitch about debian day ? :-) 
15:06 < daja77> huh?
15:07 < LowLander> <daja77> this sucking debian installer gets another /. story  <--
15:07 < daja77> yeah just don't get what you mean by debian day
15:08 < LowLander> well yer bitching about it today :-)
15:08 < daja77> yeah because this crap was posted _today_
15:09 < daja77> and because there is no news in this writing
15:09 < LowLander> so it is "bitch about debian"-day 
15:09 < rxr> "experimental support for the 2.6 kernel, on i386 only." ?!?
15:09 < LowLander> well you actually expect "news" on /. ?
15:09 < daja77> no i guess i will continue tomorrow?
15:09 < daja77> rxr: yep in the installer ...
15:10 < daja77> i have no idea what they are doin to this thing
15:10 < rxr> yes - it looks like the old one - nothing really special ...
15:11 < rxr> but /. freaks up on ti
15:11 < rxr> not that they have been able to release news about ROCK Linxu 2.0 ...
15:11 < daja77> they just suck
15:11 < LowLander> is there anything like a roadmap for ROCK ?
15:11 < rxr> debian, /. - or both ? ;-)
15:11 < rxr> ohem
15:12 < daja77> both
15:12 < rxr> LowLander: other then maintaining 2.0 - developing in 2.1 and so on?
15:12 < rxr> to be done stuff is in the bug/feature tracker
15:12 < rxr> www.rocklinux.net/flyspray
15:12 < LowLander> yeah something with dates
15:13 < LowLander> like the GNOME roadmap
15:13 < rxr> not up to now
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15:13  * LowLander really likes the concept of ROCK
15:14 < LowLander> but am still "learning"
15:16 < LowLander> I am (trying to) building a Linux distro specially for Theater/Stage use
15:18 < rxr> LowLander: what programs are then used in Theater / Stage?
15:19 < LowLander> well first off all lightinbg and show control programs
15:19 < LowLander> but almost nothing that works on Linux
15:19 < rxr> those already exist?
15:20 < LowLander> the idea is to offer a Linux distro specially made for that area so that more of those programms will be made for Linux
15:20 < rxr> for any ditribution creation task - just use ROCK ;-
15:21 < rxr> )
15:21 < LowLander> yep , that was the plan
15:21 < LowLander> just trying to work myself into the way ROCK works 
15:22 < LowLander> espcially on how to make own "targets" like the router or desktop distribution
15:23  * LowLander should create a "ROCK_N_ROLL"  distribution ;-)
15:23 < daja77> ;-)
15:23 < LowLander> btw i read something (ROCK is still downloading, so couldn't try yet) about the network config tool
15:24 < LowLander> cause most Lighting/theater ppl are very confused about IP-number and the like
15:26 < LowLander> and when it runs on a laptop they have different network setups every time, something like the OS/X network-config-switching tool thingy would be very usefull
15:26 < LowLander> is the ROCK network"thingy" anything like that or did i miss understood ?
15:28 < rxr> yes the ROCK Net includes support for profiles
15:28 < rxr> so you just have home, ofice, stage setups
15:28 < LowLander> ok thats cool
15:28 < rxr> althought it isnot yet graphical - but that could be done  for those ...
15:28 < LowLander> yeah
15:29 < LowLander> what GUI does ROCK prefer ? GNOME, KDE, plain GTK, plain Qt , Xlib ? 
15:30 < rxr> does not matter - all included
15:30 < rxr> just disable what you do not need
15:30 < daja77> guess he meant with which toolkit to implement that
15:30 < LowLander> true, still thinking abotu ROCK as a distribution, and not as a distro-builder :-)
15:31 < LowLander> but yeah Suse for example prefers KDE
15:31 < LowLander> when redhat/fedora rather use GTK
15:31 < daja77> kde is rock default
15:31 < LowLander> that sucks ;-)
15:31 < LowLander> bloodie germans and their KDE ;-)
15:32 < rxr> daja77: that is not really true
15:32 < daja77> you could change this default in your distro 
15:32 < rxr> ROCK does not prefer anythinkg
15:32 < LowLander> yeah i will seriously strip it anyway
15:33 < rxr> that kde comes up is just the default windowmanager selection - nothing really serious
15:33 < LowLander> not needing most of the stuff of a "normal" distro
15:33 < LowLander> also the installing should just install everything
15:33 < daja77> yes
15:33 < LowLander> but ROCK looks very promissing 
15:34 < LowLander> I might and up as a developer :-)
15:34 < rxr> you are welcome
15:34 < LowLander> :-)
15:35 < LowLander> how big is the community anyway
15:35 < LowLander> of developers that is
15:36 < rxr> 20 core peolpe or so > 50 continous contributors (at least)
15:36 < LowLander> oh good
15:36 < LowLander> so not a "one man show"
15:36 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.org/community.html
15:36 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.org/gallery.html
15:36 < LowLander> yep "wer lesen kann ist klar in vorteil" :-)
15:36 < LowLander> oops :-)
15:37 < rxr> (hm - although the galery still does not even list all core people ...)
15:37 < LowLander> what are the rules for accepting new things like new targets ?
15:38 < rxr> LowLander: there are not big policy files - when the code is usefull and licensed correctly under the GPL - there might be some code cleanup suggestions and it goes in ....
15:38 < rxr> useful even
15:39 < LowLander> ok the usuall open source model, thats good
15:40 < LowLander> <--- big GPL fan , so licenses will not be a problem
15:48  * rxr shortly away
15:52 < StefanG> th_ is a rock developer? ohh :)
15:52 < daja77> yep longer than me
15:53 < StefanG> wow
15:53 < StefanG> god to know :)
15:53 < StefanG> ähh, good2know .)
15:55  * rxr back later
15:56 < LowLander> btw hows your experiance with svn ?
15:56 < rxr> LowLander: no seroius problems - commit activity at:
15:56 < rxr> http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de
15:57 < LowLander> better than CVS ?
15:57 < rxr> no questions - yes
15:57  * LowLander is considering on switching his internal reposetories to SVN
15:58 < LowLander> especially the "disconnected" diff and the like features sound interesting
15:58 < rxr> if you want even more disconnected sutff take a look at:
15:59 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.org/submaster.html
15:59  * rxr finally off now ... ;-)~
15:59 < LowLander> cya
15:59 < LowLander> thanks for the info
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18:00 < mnemoc> moin
18:10 < valentin_> moin mnemoc
18:11 < mnemoc> valentin_: do u know we svn-swig is built mandatorily?
18:11 < mnemoc> s/we/why/
18:13 < mnemoc> is it needed by svn-1.0 or just an 'optional' feature?
18:16 < mnemoc> rxr: ping
18:22 < valentin_> mnemoc: rxr is away
18:22 < mnemoc> :(
18:22 < valentin_> he is the svn expert
18:23 < mnemoc> =)
18:24 < mnemoc> valentin_: do you have street fighting in front of your home offen?
18:24 < mnemoc> often*
18:25 < valentin_> mnemoc: no, just on may 1st
18:28 < valentin_> mnemoc: there was some coverage on de.indymedia.org (in german)
18:28 < mnemoc> pics?
18:29 < valentin_> yes, you can see the nazis on http://de.indymedia.org/2004/05/82168.shtml
18:30 < valentin_> and the opposing rioters on http://de.indymedia.org/2004/05/82126.shtml
18:31 < valentin_> there are two realplayer videos on http://de.indymedia.org/2004/05/82014.shtml
18:32 < mnemoc> the guys on green are military or police?
18:32 < valentin_> the police
18:32 < LowLander> riot-police
18:32 < valentin_> there are many more articles with pics on indymedia (too lazy to quote them all)
18:33 < mnemoc> thanks :)
18:34 < owl> wtf is the command 'cmp'?
18:34 < mnemoc> compare
18:34 < owl> and in which package should it be?
18:34 < owl> thx. 
18:35 < mnemoc> diffutils
18:35 < owl> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. k. thx.
18:38 < owl> hmm. and a time-server could be found where? ;)
18:38  * mnemoc downloading .rm-s
18:40 < valentin_> is there a free codec for rm available ?
18:41 < mnemoc> i'll use 'real alternative' for windows :p
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18:43 < valentin_> mplayer works, but imho they use binary codecs...
18:44 < valentin_> btw: in the first video, when the police starts to break the blockade by the protesters sitting on the ground, that's in front of my home
18:44 < mnemoc> :)
18:45 < valentin_> when the camera moves around while the cameraman flees, you can see my flat...
18:50 < mnemoc> that happens every year or this was something special?
18:53 < valentin_> well, thats a bit complicated.
18:53 < valentin_> basicaly yes
18:53 < valentin_> but the plot is different every year
18:54 < valentin_> on may 1st there are many radical groups in berlin, demonstrating.
18:56 < valentin_> it is an old tradition that some young people start to fight the police in the night after the demonstrations
18:56 < valentin_> BTW: is demonstration the right term for the german Demonstration ?
18:57 < rxr> re
18:57 < valentin_> and then there is a nazi demo on may 1st, too
18:57 < valentin_> rxr: hi
19:02 < rxr> valentin_: thanks for raising our google rating w/ all this links and non-rock words !! ;-)!
19:02 < rxr> cooll !!!!
19:02 < rxr> yeah yeah yeah! !!!
19:02 < rxr> the glibc-2.3.4-cvs snapshots build w/ gcc-3.4.0 _and does not segfault_ !!!
19:02 < rxr> my powerpc build is in stage2 now ;-)! !!!
19:03 < valentin_> google search : may 1st demonstration berlin -> www.rocklinux.net :)
19:03 < rxr> ;-)!
19:03 < valentin_> no, just joking
19:03 < rxr> I know
19:03 < LowLander> heheh
19:03 < LowLander> thats cool :-)
19:04 < rxr> so far only base/module-init-tools failed
19:04 < rxr> with this gcc-3.4.0 / glibc-2.3.4-cvs combination
19:13 < mnemoc> hi rxr
19:13  * rxr updating module-init-tools 0.9.14 -> 3.0 ... ;-)
19:13 < rxr> hi mnemoc 
19:13 < mnemoc> can you commen the subversion patch i sent?
19:13 < rxr> oh - have not noticed this yet ...
19:13 < mnemoc> :p
19:14 < mnemoc> brb
19:15 -!- valentin_ is now known as valetin
19:15 < rxr> mnemoc: I already send in such a patch
19:16 -!- valetin is now known as valentin
19:16  * valentin ...
19:17 < rxr> mnemoc: you do not seem to be on head
19:18 < rxr> there we have:
19:18 < rxr> # if swig is present build and install the perl 
19:18 < rxr> pkginstalled swig && hook_add postmake 5 "svn_inst_pl"
19:18 < rxr> cool
19:18 < rxr> == 05/02/04 19:18:32 =[1]=> Finished building package module-init-tools.
19:19 < rxr> so far no build errors using this gcc-3.4.0 / glibc-2.3.4-cvs combination
19:26 < rxr> I think I'll skill the installation of ROCK 2.0.1 on my iBook
19:26 < rxr> and directly use the glcc-3.4.0 / glibc-2.3.4-cvs output ...
19:27  * rxr will do some more low-level work this evening
19:27 < rxr> submitting the gcc/glibc work and announcing this on the news site
19:27  * rxr thinks we need more news and PR ...
19:30 < rxr> cool
19:30 < rxr> The -MP flag tells GCC >= 3.2 (which we now require) to produce dummy
19:30 < rxr> targets for headers so that removed headers don't break the build.
19:30 < rxr> in the GSMP Makefiles I do this with sed ...
19:31 < rxr> hm - but since GSMP does not want to rely on GCC >= 3.2 I'll not use it ...
19:32 < rxr> valentin: strange - since I removed all the /usr/lib/xemacs/xemacs-packages files and reinstalled clean one xemacs-beta crashes now here, tooo
19:34 < valentin> rxr: yes (you told me before :)
19:34 < LowLander> hmmm ROCK is still downloading
19:34  * LowLander shoudl get TDSL-3000
19:35 < mnemoc> rxr: pkginstall is evil
19:35 < mnemoc> if swig is enabled but fail to build, subversion will just skip that part and claim everything worked
19:36 < rxr> valentin: tought you have not got thsi - and I just finished to reEmerge-pkg xemacs-beta ...
19:36 < mnemoc> i if-ed the whjole block  to not define the function if it will not be used :p
19:36 < rxr> mnemoc: nope - since if it fails the var/adm package file is present
19:36 < rxr> but if you look a bit higher in submaster you'll see my other submission
19:37 < rxr> changing pkginstalled to do s.th. different for stage-9
19:37 < valentin> rxr: thsi ?
19:37 < rxr> this
19:37 < valentin> ah
19:37 < rxr> !stage-9: do check the package build list
19:37 < valentin> i just looked for a package named thsi ,)
19:38 < rxr> stage-9: (rebuild or manual build) use dynamic detection using $root/var/adm ...
19:38 < rxr> valentin:  ;-)
19:39 < mnemoc> i don'tlike pkginstall :\
19:39 < rxr> why - it simplifies all this like hell
19:39 < mnemoc> i see it as a hack to make it usable with Emerge-Pkg
19:39 < rxr> _and_ makes it flexible so the right thig is done depending how a package is build
19:39 < rxr> no
19:40 < rxr> it is a feature improvement to make maual in-system build useable
19:40 < mnemoc> a wrong blind other is wrongly reflected in pkginstall
19:40 < mnemoc> s/blind/build/
19:40 < rxr> I do not want to break a mplayer or xine build just because some yet-another-streaming/codec is not installed on my system but in my desktop target build list
19:41 < rxr> mnemoc: with the change I have in submaster everything is fine for your use-case
19:41 < mnemoc> i ack that
19:41 < mnemoc> my but is one the philosophical use of pkginstall :p
19:42 < mnemoc> s/one/with/
19:42 < rxr> static build-list check for anything !stage-9 and a dynamic check for rebuld (where anything is present anyway) and so manual buildsd (where optional dependencies might be missing)
19:42 < mnemoc> mmm
19:42 < rxr> this is exactly how we need this
19:43 < rxr> nothing hacky
19:43 < mnemoc> is that the current implemtnation'
19:43 < mnemoc> ?
19:43 < rxr> that is the implementation lingering around in submaster
19:43 < rxr> the current implementation always does dynamic checking
19:43 < rxr> thus the improvement in submaster
19:44  * rxr waiting for this cool gcc-3.4 buidl to progress
19:44 < mnemoc> rxr: what do u think about bdb cleanup patch?
19:45 < mnemoc> (damn modem connection... more than a minute of latency :()
19:46 < rxr> I saw this from the corner of my eye's
19:46 < rxr> I need to review this
19:46 < rxr> but I can already say that such is not a 2.0 topic
19:46 < rxr> it shoudl be ABI stable
19:46 < rxr> (where I count databases to a dist ABI;-)
19:47 < rxr> but I think about releasing 2.1 in soem months when gcc-3.4 and glibc2.3.4-cvs work out ...
19:47 < mnemoc> re
19:47 < rxr> have you got my last 5 lines?
19:48 < mnemoc> yep
19:48 < mnemoc> screen did
19:50 < mnemoc> the current problem is that if you don't enalbe bdb41 you get no default bdb, which is a real propbm in 2.0
19:50 < rxr> oh
19:50 < rxr> please remind me on this
19:50 < rxr> I review this - but anything changing the default bdb will not go into 2.0 ...
19:51 < mnemoc> no, 4.1 _Still_ default after the patch
19:51 < rxr> ok - I review
19:51 < mnemoc> thanks :)
19:52 < mnemoc> i'm using 2.0 in production and i don't want it to be a highly-hacked branch
19:53 < rxr> highly-hacked means?
19:54 < mnemoc> stuff like bdb patch
19:54 < mnemoc> and some updates
19:55 < mnemoc> to be able to sm sync without getting _lot_ of conflicts :p
20:02 < LowLander> ok i downloaded everything now
20:02 < LowLander> but get the following error when building
20:02 < LowLander> chown: changing ownership of `.': Operation not permitted
20:02 < mnemoc> -all or -.required?
20:02 < LowLander> and that list goes on for ever
20:02 < LowLander> -required
20:03 < mnemoc> uhm
20:03 < LowLander> the dirs are owned by me
20:03 < mnemoc> you have to brock using only 'root'
20:03 < LowLander> and i build as my
20:03 < mnemoc> rock*
20:03 < mnemoc> (aaarg... i don't even see what i write :\)
20:04 < rxr> LowLander: you need to buid ROCK as root
20:04 < rxr> (I guess mnemoc wants to write ;-)
20:05 < LowLander> ah ok
20:05 < LowLander> any special reason why ?
20:05  * rxr wonderis if I forgot to mention this in the Handbook ...
20:05 < rxr> now on TODO
20:06 < LowLander> i rather not run (unkown) stuff as root
20:06 < rxr> rock linxu needs to chroot - this is root only
20:06 < rxr> (for the sandbox)
20:06 < mnemoc> re
20:06 < LowLander> ah ok
20:07 < rxr> in addition several programs require to set special permissions on files and/or dirs - many combinations are also only allowed to be set as root + chown/grp'ing files/dirs ...)
20:07 < LowLander> what packege is fuser part of ?
20:07 < rxr> oehm
20:08  * rxr grep still running
20:08 < rxr> psmisc
20:08 < mnemoc> blindy did a web interface for that
20:09 < rxr> the regression tester will soon have on, too
20:09 < mnemoc> LowLander: http://scavenger.homeip.net/ROCK/sonar/search.pl
20:10  * rxr .oO (  )
20:10 -!- link_ [~link_@adsl-212-101-21-193.solnet.ch] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:13 < mnemoc> (what antifa means?)
20:16 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has joined #rocklinux
20:17 -!- uppo [~uppo@pcmath208.unice.fr] has left #rocklinux ["Leaving"]
20:19 < mnemoc> rxr: i don't see your patch for subversion/swig on submaster
20:20 < rxr> isn't this already in HEAD
20:21 < rxr> it is
20:21 < rxr> http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/rock-linux/trunk/package/rene/subversion/subversion.conf
20:22 < mnemoc> uhm... my dif to trunk doesn't show it ..,. uhmmm
20:22 < rxr> not 2.0 ...
20:22 < rxr> are you in 2.0 ?
20:22 < mnemoc> both
20:22 < rxr> it is in trunk
20:22 < rxr> but not yet in branches/2.0
20:22 < rxr> -stable
20:23 < mnemoc> i'll discard the mpatch and merge with trunk  then
20:24 < rxr> (although it should be in stable
20:24 < rxr> )
20:24 < rxr> I need to reserve a day next week for 2.0-stable work next week
20:24 < mnemoc> (only that part, of course)
20:24 < rxr> == 18:08:57 =[2]=> Building base/gcc3 [3.4.0 2.1.0-DEV].
20:24 < rxr> == 05/02/04 20:24:14 =[2]=> Finished building package gcc3.
20:25 < rxr> oh! My build entered stage 3
20:26 < mnemoc> congratulations!
20:26 < rxr> now I need to test it on x86m, too
20:26 < rxr> otherwise you all will scream up again
20:39 < blindy> rehi
20:41 < mnemoc> hi blindy 
20:41 < blindy> rxr: are you going to use my sonar or are you going to create your own?L
20:43 < rxr> I guess I will simply create s.th. more lightweight (non perl IIRC yours was Perl ...)
20:43 < blindy> hmm ok
20:43 < blindy> then there's no real point in continuing my work, is there?
20:44 < rxr> I'll not tell you to stop your work - you need to decide for yourself ...
20:44 < mnemoc> oh
20:45 < mnemoc> oh
20:46 < rxr> mnemoc: ?
20:46 < blindy> just thought, cause having it on my machine at home renders it almost useless
20:46 < blindy> so if you say you're going to use something else for this purpose then I'll invest my work into other fields
20:49 < rxr> hm, a new callenge for my gcc-3.4.0 / glibc-2.3.4-cvs :
20:49 < rxr> == 20:43:33 =[3]=> Building base/perl5 [5.8.3 2.1.0-DEV].
20:49 < mnemoc> to the blindy-sexbomb field :)
20:50 < blindy> mnemoc: ???
20:51 < mnemoc> some weeks ago you said you can only be seen with at least 3 girls around you :)
20:52 < blindy> weeks? has it been that long already?
20:52 < blindy> well, today there were three girls, alright :-)
20:52 < mnemoc> =)
21:04 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:02:12 =[3]=> Finished building package perl5.
21:04 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:04:25 =[3]=> Finished building package gdbm.
21:04 < rxr> this does not look bad
21:12 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:12:46 =[3]=> Finished building package gettext.
21:13  * LowLander thinks building ROCK will take a long while on his machine
21:17 < mnemoc> LowLander: consider using a different machine for buildings
21:17 < LowLander> what diffrent machine
21:18 < LowLander> my P4 2GHz is the fastest i have :-)
21:18 < mnemoc> don't know :) office, univ, frined, something faster than yours
21:18 < mnemoc> oh.... that's fast enought :)
21:19 < rxr> LowLander: a P4 is really sufficent
21:19 < LowLander> other choises are my 1.6GH laptop, 800MHz athlon, 800MHz C3
21:19 < LowLander> or a dual pentium 133MHz :-)
21:19 < rxr> the numbers I post are from a 800Mhz iBook ...
21:19 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:13:27 =[3]=> Finished building package zlib.
21:19 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:16:50 =[3]=> Finished building package bash.
21:20 < rxr> seldom was a build that interesting
21:20 < LowLander> well when yer waiting nothing is fast enough :-)
21:20 < mnemoc> forget about your build for one day
21:20 < LowLander> how much diskspace does a full builöd take ?
21:20 < mnemoc> and disable rebuild stage
21:21 < mnemoc> that depend of your build :)
21:21 < LowLander> desktop- 2.0
21:21 < mnemoc> target, template and package selection
21:21 < mnemoc> 3GB?
21:21 < LowLander> oh all within acceptable parameters
21:22 < LowLander> still got 114G free on that machine :-)
21:23 < mnemoc> how much ram?
21:23 < mnemoc> using tempfs for builds is a big improve
21:23 < LowLander> ram is the problem , only 512
21:24 < LowLander> but it is just compiling , and the day is almost over anyway
21:25 < mnemoc> [15:24:34] <LowLander>  [..] the day is almost over anyway
21:26 < LowLander> 9:30 here
21:26 < LowLander> some TV coming up, or some PS2 and than work tomorow
21:26 < LowLander> so it can compile until tomorow evening untill i have time agian to look at it
21:29 < rxr> I do not recommend tmpfs
21:29 < rxr> a full desktop buidl takes ~5-6 GB
21:30 < blindy> I _do_ recommend it
21:30 < blindy> even with only a 
21:30 < blindy> LVP build it speeded up by >20% in my last benchmark
21:30 < blindy> I'd like to know the difference in a complete build
21:31 < rxr> if anyone wants to lear snooker "EUROSPART" is the station to watch
21:31 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:22:24 =[3]=> Finished building package coreutils.
21:31 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:22:55 =[3]=> Finished building package mktemp.
21:31 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:24:52 =[3]=> Finished building package texinfo.
21:32 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:25:57 =[3]=> Finished building package less.
21:32 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:30:18 =[3]=> Finished building package groff.
21:32 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:31:34 =[3]=> Finished building package man.
21:32 -!- Lorini [~Andrea@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has joined #rocklinux
21:32 < blindy> nice machine :)
21:33 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:33:01 =[3]=> Finished building package joe.
21:33 < rxr> LowLander: an this buid times are produced on a 800Mhz iBook ... ;-)
21:34 < LowLander> rxr how well does it work on apple hardware ?
21:35 < rxr> (but w/ gcc-3.4.0 which is a bit faster then gcc-3.2/3.3)
21:35 < blindy> rxr: try this on a 500MHz Sun with a 5400 rpm IDE-HD
21:35 < rxr> LowLander: with all the fixes/improvements i did during ROCK Linux development I would give it a 1- or so
21:36 < rxr> some tiny convenience issues remain to be resolved
21:36 < LowLander> a german 1- ?
21:36 < rxr> ah yes
21:36 < rxr> but it is near perfect
21:36 < LowLander> so pretty good
21:36 < rolla> re
21:36 < rxr> especially since suspend to RAM works perfectly
21:36 < blindy> anyway
21:36  * blindy --> bed
21:36 < rxr> there are months where I do not reboot the box - just close it and carry it around
21:36 < rxr> cu blindy 
21:36 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:34:41 =[3]=> Finished building package nvi.
21:37 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:36:34 =[3]=> Finished building package bison.
21:37 < LowLander> rxr oh good suspend to RAM is nice
21:37 < rxr> -> Reading package configuration from package directory.
21:38 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:37:18 =[3]=> Finished building package autoconf.
21:38 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:37:52 =[3]=> Finished building package automake.
21:40 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:39:54 =[3]=> Finished building package libtool.
21:40 < rxr> LowLander: dynamic CPU freq scaling does also work  -- backlight dimming, too
21:40 < LowLander> nice
21:41 < LowLander> not half those features work on my vaio
21:41 < rxr> LowLander: this is why I invested in a PowerPC notebook
21:42 < LowLander> well i liked the big screen on the vaio
21:42 < LowLander> it is more a mobile work station for me than a real "laptop"
21:42 < rxr> ah - and with 400Mhz scalled CPU and slightly dimmed backlight, typing text, running latex and listening mp3/OggVorbis the battery life is nearly 5 hours ...
21:43 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:39:54 =[3]=> Finished building package libtool.
21:43 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:41:08 =[3]=> Finished building package libelf.
21:43 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:42:49 =[3]=> Finished building package prelink.
21:43 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:43:15 =[3]=> Finished building package cracklib.
21:44 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:44:31 =[3]=> Finished building package pam.
21:45 < owl> exit
21:45 < owl> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
21:49 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:49:03 =[3]=> Finished building package shadow.
21:52 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:52:01 =[3]=> Finished building package util-linux.
21:52 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:52:46 =[3]=> Finished building package uml_utilities.
21:55 < owl> build for what arch?
21:57 < LowLander> daja77, are you still around ?
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:56:27 =[3]=> Finished building package e2fsprogs.
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:57:38 =[3]=> Finished building package mkdosfs.
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 21:58:42 =[3]=> Finished building package genromfs.
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:05:37 =[3]=> Finished building package procps.
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:07:26 =[3]=> Finished building package psmisc.
22:07 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:07:03 =[9]=> Finished building package asterisk.
22:07 < rxr> ^- valentin on idefix
22:08 < rxr> should I move it to ebelix to test it tonight? or are you soon off into bed?
22:08 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:08:06 =[3]=> Finished building package module-init-tools.
22:13 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:09:20 =[3]=> Finished building package modutils.
22:13 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:09:48 =[3]=> Finished building package cron.
22:13 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:10:14 =[3]=> Finished building package sysklogd.
22:13 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:10:40 =[3]=> Finished building package devfsd.
22:13 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:11:03 =[3]=> Finished building package rockplug.
22:13 < valentin> rxt: you van move it to obelix, but i would recommend not to start it until it's configured
22:13 < valentin> rxr can even
22:14 < mnemoc> obelix?
22:15 -!- k3t__ [k3t@p54804799.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:15 < rxr> mnemoc: hostnames
22:16 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:14:30 =[3]=> Finished building package sysfiles.
22:16 < mnemoc> :)
22:17 < mnemoc> svn: Unknown hostname 'svn.rocklinux-consulting.de'
22:17 < rxr> == 05/02/04 22:16:47 =[5]=> Finished building package 00-dirtree.
22:17 < rxr> mnemoc: hm - does work here
22:19 < rxr> argh - those asterisk people do not know what lib and share are good for
22:19 < rxr> ah - no forget it, only a slightly mistake
22:26 < daja77> LowLander: yes
22:26 < LowLander> deja77 what is the realtime target ?
22:26 < mnemoc> good question :)
22:26 < daja77> kernel with rtai patch + rtai package ...
22:26 < daja77> mnemoc: why?
22:26 < LowLander> uptodate ?
22:27 < daja77> works with 2.4.25 + rthal patch
22:27 < daja77> no i use the old rtai branch, the stable one
22:28 < mnemoc> daja77: i was expecting a deeper aanswer :(
22:28 < LowLander> daja77, RTAI has no stable one ;-)
22:28 < daja77> mnemoc: what do you mean by deeper?
22:28 < daja77> lol well then that one which is not labeled as testing
22:29 < LowLander> daja77,  but the 3.x version , right ?
22:29 < mnemoc> daja77: purpose ;)
22:29 < daja77> 2.4.x
22:30 < daja77> purpose depends on what you are using it for
22:30 < LowLander> the newer versions might be worth a look , Phillip did a good job on it
22:30 < mnemoc> daja77: then it's just the package and not a target ;)
22:30 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD9E8F48B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:30 < daja77> i know that they are worth a look, but i am not paid for that atm
22:31 < daja77> mnemoc: i haven't said it is a target
22:31 < LowLander> damn always wanting the money :-P
22:31 < LowLander> i thought free software was free ;-P
22:31 < daja77> free as in free speech
22:31 < mnemoc> food and dsl cost money :)
22:31  * LowLander waits for a preace on what free means
22:32 < LowLander> oh there it was already ;-)
22:32 < daja77> not as in free beer
22:32 < daja77> and it takes time to maintain stuff like that
22:32 < daja77> i don't have that much time
22:32 < LowLander> daja77 did you use the RTAI stuff in projectzs ?
22:33 < daja77> i fixed it so that it works with trunk, even while not getting paud for that :\
22:33 < daja77> yep we used it for machine control
22:33 < LowLander> nice
22:33 < rxr> LowLander: you could hit some donate buttons on www.rocklinux-consulting.de
22:34 < daja77> *ggg*
22:34 < LowLander> hehe
22:34 < daja77> rxr: that would not get me paid for rtai stuff ^^
22:34 < LowLander> hey i live from doing linux stuff myself
22:34 < LowLander> i know quite a few of the RTAI hackers
22:34 < rxr> if he writes in it is for rtai work I can send it to you ...
22:35 < daja77> *ggg*
22:35 < rxr> LowLander: we try , too
22:35 < LowLander> yeah not always easy
22:35 < rxr> never was - never will be
22:35 < LowLander> i did a S360 job at IBM last year
22:36 < LowLander> or zSeries as they are called now
22:36 < daja77> 360??! sure=
22:37 < LowLander> daja77
22:37 < LowLander> daja77 yep
22:37 < LowLander> IBM Böblingen
22:37 < daja77> not 390?
22:37 < rxr> LowLander: directly @ IBM? or for some customer?
22:38 < LowLander> at the IBM germany lab
22:38 < LowLander> deja77 oops yeah S390
22:38 < daja77> :)
22:38 < LowLander> although they still run the S360 stuff too
22:38 < LowLander> 24bit, 31bit and 64bit
22:38 < daja77> yeah but thats the one from the 60s
22:39 < LowLander> well yeah
22:40 < LowLander> very interesting to see
22:40 < LowLander> especialy the virtualization is nice
23:03 < rxr> 100 Patches in the submaster queue right now
23:04 < daja77> urgs
23:04 < mnemoc> nice number
23:06 < rxr> 101 now
23:07 < daja77> haven't synced to trunk for days and it wouldn't change a bit
23:09 < mnemoc> rxr: linux 2.4.26, when?
23:09 < rxr> isn't it in submater?
23:10 < mnemoc> yes it is
23:10 < rxr> yeah it is
23:10 < rxr> :-(
23:10 < rxr> mnemoc: when master clifford's reference build finished without too many problems ...
23:10 < mnemoc> oh
23:11 < rxr> mnemoc: since master clifford only applies tested chunkgs into the devel tree ...
23:11 < daja77> this package did compile several times here ...
23:12 < rxr> it could have side-effects ... - inside the header ....
23:12 < rxr> it _must_ be deeply tested and reference build before anything goes into 2.1-devel ...
23:12 < daja77> are you joking?
23:13 < rxr> joking?
23:13  * rxr looking up joking in a dictonary
23:13 < daja77> got it? *ggg*
23:13 < mnemoc> daja77: our trunk has defined that way by it's maintainer
23:14 < mnemoc> was*
23:14 < rxr> after all it is a development tree - do you expect a linux package's header changes breaking 2-3 packages in it? No never!
23:14 < mnemoc> never such unstability on the devel  tree
23:15 < daja77> it did not break any for now ...
23:16 < daja77> just some gnome crap failing
23:24 < rxr> or the good side: we have a free deep review monkey ;-)
23:26 < daja77> lol
23:26 < rxr> QA is expensive ;-)
23:26 < rxr> btw, how do you like the idea of a very quick interrim 2.1 stable tree?
23:27 < rxr> I would like (if others agree) to have a gcc-3.4.x based stable series soon
23:27 < rxr> like branching current trunk in a months or so
23:28 < daja77> yep i like the idea
23:28 < mnemoc> after a couple of 2.0.x releases :)
23:28 < rxr> no - after one or two
23:28 < daja77> it doesn't matter if we have many 2.0 releases if we are quicker with 2.1 why not
23:28 < rxr> but 2.0 will get continue security fixes and minior but important updates
23:29 < mnemoc> can we have a more dynamic 2.0 until we have this other stable branch?
23:31 < mnemoc> with 2.1-stable i understand an almost frozen 2.0-stable, but not before that
23:32 < rxr> what would you like to have in 2.0 ?
23:32 < rxr> the .init fies, subversion, kernels other security stuff
23:33 < rxr> what elese?
23:33 < daja77> all security fixes
23:33 < daja77> kde 3.2.2
23:33 < rxr> but then I tag 2.0.1 now
23:34 < rxr> and have 2.0.2 in a week - I do not want to rebuild kde on all ISOs I already have ...
23:34 < netrunne1> re
23:34 < mnemoc> everything but mayor updates or framework changes
23:34 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
23:34  * netrunner back from heidelberg
23:34 < rxr> rehi netrunner 
23:35 < daja77> wb netrunner 
23:35 < mnemoc> wb netrunner 
23:36 < netrunner> rxr: what was the state of pcmcia on bootdisk? shall I do it again?
23:36  * netrunner realised that he could not install his new build on his laptop :)
23:36 < rxr> sure - I have nothing particular holding it off
23:36 < rxr> but for trunk only - not 2.0-stable
23:37 < netrunner> rxr: 2 decisions: a) extra target? b) if not - extra initrd or config option?
23:37 < rxr> target ? Hell no!
23:37 < mnemoc> ack
23:37 < daja77> why extra? i'd like to install all laptops with that
23:37 < netrunner> last time I did it with an extra initrd, but that consumes space
23:37 < rxr> hm - a second initrd should be fine
23:38 < rxr> they are compressed now ...
23:38 < rxr> take a lok
23:38 < rxr> look even
23:38 < netrunner> oki. maybe tomorrow morning.
23:38 < rxr> you'll find s.th. and we s.th. to comment ;-)
23:41 < netrunner> yeah, you can start a flame on me ;)
23:41  * netrunner going to bed now. to many kilometres today. by foot through heidelberg and by car through germany.
23:43 < mnemoc> gn8 netrunner 
23:49 -!- owl [~owl@dialin-212-144-016-034.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
--- Log closed Mon May 03 00:00:02 2004