--- Log opened Sat May 08 00:00:17 2004
00:01 < rxr> ehrm - the Linux kernel becomes crazy:
00:01 < rxr> >   fpu_init() is needed in the resume path, only if the user want to 
00:01 < rxr> > change the cpu between suspend and resume. Otherwise the 
00:01 < rxr> > mxcsr_features_mask calculated earlier will still be valid. 
00:01 < rxr> Noone should exchange CPUs while we are in S4 suspend; but handling it can not hurt.             
00:02 < rxr> hm - that is cool for server updates
00:02 < rxr> suspend - throw out Intel crap - put in Athlon whatever - power-on
00:09 < daja77> hehe
00:10 < rxr> http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_4074_01.asp
00:12 < daja77> hehe now they bring upo installer stories too
00:15 < rxr> interesting how many UI's Micosoft implements
00:15 < rxr> not that they choose one MVC windowing / widget stuff - no the installer looks difference from the system and so on ... a bit bloated and inconsistent ...
00:17 < netrunner> rxr: should I buy the ibook with more ram or can I add cheaper later?
00:19 < rxr> adding RAM should be easy
00:20 < rxr> it's normal DDR RAM, anyway
00:21 < netrunner> ah ok.
00:22 < rxr> (only depending on the model if 266 or 333 or so ... - SO-DIMs of course)
00:25 < netrunner> hmok. I'll probably buy an 12" ibook tomorrow. If it feels good when I see it :)
00:25 < rxr> those new G4 - or the older G3?
00:26 < rxr> You know that the Airport Extreme and Radeon 9500 (or so) do not yet work under Linux ?
00:26 < daja77> the 12" are with nvidia :(
00:26 < rxr> daja77: no
00:26 < daja77> then the apple page told crap
00:26 < rxr> (where w/ Radeon only hardware 3D is affected)
00:26 < rxr> the 12" Powerbooks
00:26 < rxr> not iBook
00:27 < rxr> all last years iBooks are Radeon
00:27 < daja77> cool
00:27 < rxr> only in some Powerbook's NVidia "crap" got inserted
00:28 < daja77> the whole apple stuff is quite expensive, when you want some features in it
00:28 < rxr> http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_10.jpg
00:28 < daja77> have i told you that i get paid for macosX programming next week
00:28 < rxr> 1 hours 27 minutes (40%) remaining (40%)
00:29 < rxr> they hand out good stuff to smoke @ Microsoft
00:29 < daja77> LOL
00:29 < fake> hey, kinda makes the job more attractive *g*
00:30 < daja77> hehe
00:30 < netrunner> radeon If I read correctly
00:30 < rxr> netrunner: yes - but too new radeon ...
00:30 < netrunner> and I think it's a g4, at least on the website. hope they have that in the store
00:31 < rxr> if this would be the first Microsoft Windows try - but it the imporvement of an improvement of an ....
00:31 < rxr> netrunner: all G4 iBooks have too new radeon ...
00:31 < rxr> and Airport Extreme ...
00:33 < fake> airport extreme sucks
00:33 < rxr> because no Linux support ? for the chipset ?
00:33 < fake> yes. and no monitor support in OS X
00:33 < netrunner> 1GHz PowerPC G4 ... ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 ...
00:34 < fake> and the banning of Open Source / replacement drivers in .3
00:34 < rxr> .3 ?
00:34 < fake> monitor as in 'rf monitoring mode'
00:34 < fake> the newest panther
00:34 < rxr> what do you mean with "banning of Open Source / replacement drivers" ?
00:35 < rxr> netrunner: I do not think this info is correct, all G4 iBooks have newer Radeon chips 
00:35 < fake> there was a replacement driver for mac os X that supported monitoring mode
00:35 < rxr> fake: fully open source ?
00:35 < netrunner> rxr: I just took it from the apple education store
00:35 < fake> rxr: i suppose not ;)
00:35 < rxr> netrunner: I know you quoted it - but it can not be right
00:36 < fake> rxr: no first hand experience, just always hear the whining of a osx user ;)
00:36 < daja77> hehe
00:36 < rxr> netrunner: in a Gravis store at the next crossing here - they also had a poster telling this
00:36  * daja77 got hired by a bunch of macos freaks
00:36 < netrunner> rxr: that's a bit far away ;)
00:36 < daja77> but maybe i port this to linuix
00:36 < rxr> I watned to buy one when it really contains this Radeon - he took a deeper look an noticed the poster is wrong
00:37 < rxr> daja77: what will be your job?
00:37 < netrunner> does anybody here know qt?
00:37 < rxr> partly - but I'm not in the mood to tutor this ...
00:37 < rxr> I want to hack a bit ...
00:37 < netrunner> rxr: so is the newer better or worse?
00:37 < daja77> driver programming + some application programming to present their printed keyboard and stuff
00:38  * netrunner beginning to hesitate again :/
00:39 < rxr> netrunner: this depends if you need wlan and/or hardware 3d
00:39 < daja77> wlan yes, 3d not necessarily
00:40 < rxr> for me it is the other way round ...
00:40 < rxr> one could also use USB wlan dongles ...
00:40 < rxr> or bluetooth
00:41 < fake> yes, but usb wlan adapters w/prism2 and external antenna connectors are *very* rare
00:41 < fake> i.e. i am not aware of any
00:41 < rxr> there are other Linux supported ones ...
00:41 < fake> what do i need a notebook for when i can't even wardrive with it *g*
00:41 < daja77> i hate this built in hw is there but not supported crap, this is the same on x86 laptops
00:41 < rxr> for my current workload a G4 would be better - and I guess with enought time I could hack the Radeon into a working state ...
00:42 < rxr> this is not Apple causing this - it is some normal broadcom I think chip ...
00:42 < fake> yes
00:42 < rxr> and for the Radeon thing it is the same - just NVidia and Ati suck a lot
00:42 < fake> and broadcom refuses to acknowledge linux as an OS ;)
00:43 < daja77> well anyway who is responsable, this sucks a lot
00:43 < rxr> hm - I only acknowledge stuff like Linux and Darwin as an OS
00:43 < rxr> how could they then ship Windows drivers ...
00:43 < rxr> yes - it sucks not to get specs
00:43 < fake> i have darwin installe don my x86, but it won't boot
00:44 < daja77> you could have tested hurd as well *eg*
00:44  * rxr is still waiting for VIA - they claim they do not have the SPEC for the older VT82C586 anymore - but if they *find* it I get it under NDA ...
00:44 < netrunner> rxr: do I get you right that neither 3d nor wlan work? (I assume you mean running linux, osx should be fine)
00:44 < rxr> netrunner: yeah - sure everything under MacOSX works like a charme ...
00:44 < daja77> rxr: ndas suck too but better than nothing
00:44 < rxr> netrunner: yes - neither 3d nor wlan should work under Linux
00:45 < rxr> I do not care - I sign any NDA as long as they do not limit source releases - normally they do not
00:45 < daja77> those apple newsletters are funny
00:45 < rxr> I sign the paper and have the doc <dot> - problem solved.
00:45 < rxr> I only need the VT82C586 spec due to hardware wiring anyway ...
00:46 < daja77> they do not, strange whats the difference between the src as doc are the real doc 
00:46 < daja77> i don't get it
00:47 < daja77> <nitpick> in that case it is not dot but period :)
00:47 < netrunner> hm ... not being able to run linux on it sux :(
00:47 < rxr> daja77: ack
00:47 < rxr> often I also do not get hardware vendors, they sell the hardware, not the spec ...
00:47 < rxr> netrunner: you are able to run Linux on it ...
00:48 < LowLander> Ok guys where should i start when i want to make a distro with ROCK that has something like knoppix but can also instal
00:48 < rxr> just not w/ accelerated 3d (how often do you use it?) and not with the optional intenal w-lan
00:48 < rxr> just plug in a USB one
00:48 < rxr> LowLander: fake is on this thing ...
00:48 < daja77> yeah knoppix needs to be replaced
00:49 < rxr> LowLander: but if you want to start your own - use the bootdisk target and modify it to include more, start X, and patch the kernel to include cloop ...
00:49 < rxr> that is it mostly ...
00:49 < fake> lowlander: must be ready at the end of june
00:49 < LowLander> fake cool
00:49 < fake> LowLander: documentation must be ready in one week :(
00:49 < LowLander> even better
00:49 < daja77> btw that debian ranting in dasr is nice
00:49 < fake> LowLander: http://f4k3.net/~fake/rock-livecd/
00:51 < LowLander> looks interesting
00:51 < daja77> fake: that cloop stuff is completely missing in your plan, or am I to tired to find it
00:51 < fake> daja77: than plan is outdated
00:51 < daja77> good :)
00:51 < LowLander> fake at a "update plan : 1 hour" to the plan
00:51 < LowLander> :-)
00:51 < fake> daja77: i had to 'correct' it - it was too 'specific' - it's now like '- Project planning : 8h, -implementation: 30 h...'
00:52  * LowLander noticed that he is old compared to most rock developers :-)
00:52 < daja77> rofl
00:52 < daja77> doesn't matter
00:53 < daja77> <- watching futurama
00:53 < LowLander> just noticed there are a lot of ppl from 198*
00:53  * fake is old
00:53 < daja77> nah you just look old :p
00:53 < LowLander> atleast no 199* :-)
00:56 < fake> chaos city is funny
00:58 < rxr> hm - I think I'll finally implement conditional patches for multi tarball packages
00:58 < rxr> NOW
01:17 < LowLander> how stable is the build system ?
01:18 < LowLander> hmm with stable i mean , does it change a lot 
01:18 < LowLander> or are there plans for changes
01:18 < daja77> there are plans
01:19 < daja77> but the 2.0 ones should keep this way
01:19 < LowLander> in what direction ?
01:19 < LowLander> and 2.1 ?
01:19 < LowLander> or do you mean 2.x
01:20 < daja77> downlaod dir restructering and stuff
01:20 < daja77> anyway i am too tired now
01:20 < daja77> n8
01:20 < rxr> LowLander: the build system will get improvements - in 2.2 quite a lot
01:21 < LowLander> btw why does the configure tool react so slow ?
01:21 < rxr> but the underlying package description format (ASCI tags) and .conf files will stay compatible
01:21 < rxr> LowLander: because each change does result in reparsing tons of packages lists and reevaluation of conditionas
01:21 < rxr> conditionals even
01:22 < LowLander> when i select somethign like "Target Dist." it takes like 3 seconds to come back
01:22 < rxr> in 2.1-devel this got already speed up a lot
01:22 < LowLander> ah ok
01:22 < rxr> 2.0 or 2.1?
01:22 < LowLander> svn
01:22 < rxr> 2.1 is already much faster - and we will work on accelerating this further
01:22 < LowLander> 2.1-DEV
01:22 < LowLander> hmmm was just wndering
01:22 < rxr> hm - trunk ? @ HEAD?
01:23 < LowLander> not that it makes much a difference compared to the time needed to download and compile :-)
01:23 < LowLander> trunk
01:23 < LowLander> <--- svn newbie
01:23 < rxr> and when you do "svn up" nothing changes?
01:25 < LowLander> hmmm it is thinking real hard now
01:25 < LowLander> oh there it goes
01:25 < LowLander> few A's and a few U's
01:25 < LowLander> a D
01:25 < rxr> s.th. in scripts/ or misc/ ?
01:25 < LowLander> time to get the SVN manual i guess
01:26 < LowLander> in package/
01:26 < LowLander> still working
01:26 < rxr> you you have U's in scripts/ or misc/ ?
01:26 < rxr> ah - ok
01:26 < LowLander> updated to revision 2877
01:26 < rxr> when you get updates in scripts/ or misc/ changes are high that Config is faster after the update
01:27 < LowLander> nope thats as fast as it is going to be :-)
01:27 < rxr> ok - then it should already be faster then the 2.0 one - more acceleration planed ...
01:28 < LowLander> ok i got some seriouse doku to read :-)
01:29 < rxr> what? the svn handbook ?
01:29 < LowLander> and ROCK development
01:29 < rxr> the Handbook ?
01:29 < LowLander> what ever doku i can find
01:29 < LowLander> ls
01:30 < LowLander> doh
01:30 < rxr> in in source Documentation is not up-to-date and will be removed soon
01:30 < rxr> refer to the all mighty Handbook: http://www.rocklinux.org/handbook.html (I think)
01:30 < LowLander> so what is _the_ doku to read ?
01:30 < LowLander> ah ok
01:31 < rxr> (Documentation is not that bad - just that the Handbook is much mroe worked on)
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01:47 < rxr> hi MadTux 
01:47 < MadTux> re rxr :)
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01:49 < LowLander> ok sleep time
01:50 < LowLander> cya
01:50 < MadTux> n8 HighLander
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02:02 < nookie> Hi MadTux 
02:02 < MadTux> n00kie!
02:03 < nookie> Hola :)
02:17  * rxr needs faster PowrPC boxs
02:17 < rxr> or clustering all embedded boards lying around ...
02:17 < rxr> "Where has this ISO been build?"
02:18 < rxr> Oh, that is easy: "On a cluster of a IBM RS/6k, a Motorola MCP750 and MCP750HA embedded boars + an iBook added ad-hoc from time to time
02:28 < mnemoc> re
02:38 < rxr> hi mnemoc 
02:38 < rxr> hm - tee is empty
02:39 < rxr> hm - seems I shoudl crawl into bed
02:41 < tfing> rxr: just before that just one question
02:41 < tfing> who will be the maintainer for the 2.1 stable branch ?
02:41 < rxr> maybe /me ...
02:41 < mnemoc> hi rxr, tfing 
02:41 < tfing> hi mnemoc 
02:41 < rxr> tfing: why do you ask?
02:42 < tfing> rxr: that makes a lot of job on your shoulders
02:42 < mnemoc> _lots_
02:42 < rxr> well - as long as I can generate as much money as I need to pay my flat and food with it - I'm fine with this ...
02:43 < rxr> (and I have clifford as submaster apply monkey ;-)
02:43 < rxr> ah - I forgot to mention in the mail that I'm open for merge suggestions to propagate changes from trunk into 2.0-stable
02:44 < tfing> maybe a stable team of 2-3 people working on the 2 stable branches would be better
02:44 < tfing> deciding what to backport
02:46 < rxr> I would propose this the other way round
02:47 < rxr> more comitees should be allowed in trunk
02:47 < rxr> but for the stable tree - where only well selected things shoudl be just backpoarted (svn merge) one carekeeper should have the overview
02:48 < rxr> but a handful people using the tree in production and proposing "merges" would indeed be very helpful and is what I meant above
02:48 < mnemoc> rxr: apropos download re-organization, i have been thinking and we don't need to fake $archdir, a list of filenames on [D]s is enough and the changes are not too deep
02:50 < rxr> .oO (http://gigaom.com/archives/2004/05/can_comcast_snoop_into_you_home_networks_using_linksys_gateway.html)
02:51 < rxr> mn what do you mean exactly?
02:51 < rxr> we *want* to fake a canonical $archdir using symlinks as explicit feature to:
02:52 < rxr> - prevent builds on our development boxes to build cleanly when in fact the .desc file contains a version mismatch and the package only builds because old tars are lying around
02:53 < mnemoc> (you don't need a canonical $archdir to do the firtst point)
02:53 < rxr> - packages not using files they did not marked to download - and so should not be allowed to use
02:53 < rxr> mnemoc: huh? why?
02:53 < rxr> mnemoc: when there is only one fat $archdir the package can grab any file lying around in it - there is no way to prevent this
02:54 < rxr> (of course using a preload library or kernel module could prevent this)
02:55 < mnemoc> imagine a list (var) of filenames (with s,gz,bz2,g pre-applied
02:55 < mnemoc> does filenames are extractred form .desc's [D]s
02:56 < mnemoc> a function with a pattern as argument can easily return the proper path  to that file
02:57 < mnemoc> or even a list of files to loop over it if you want
02:58 < rxr> you mean you need to request any file inside the .conf?
02:58 < rxr> give_me_my_file blabla
02:58 < rxr> ?
02:58 < mnemoc> tar $taropt `gimme_the_file 'linux-.*.tar.bz2`
02:59 < rxr> we want to keep .desc compatible
02:59 < mnemoc> for f in `imme_the_files 'patch-.*'`; do something, done
03:00 < mnemoc> that pattern is used against a list of files taken from .desc file
03:00 < rxr> this is far too complicated to use compared to just using the file
03:00 < rxr> and what is the problem in a wuick look that links all $desc_D listed files into ROCK/archdir or so ?
03:00 < mnemoc> most times you ask for a file you _do_ grep or sed against a pattern
03:00 < rxr> s/wuick/quick/
03:01 < rxr> (yes the w is near the q ;-)
03:01 < mnemoc> :p
03:01 < rxr> no - only in corner cases
03:02 < rxr> more common is cd themedir (or similar)
03:02 < rxr> tar $taropt $archdir/some-ugly-theme-$ver.ext
03:02 < rxr> or 
03:02 < rxr> tar $taropt $archdir/some-extension-or-data-file-$ver(if any).ext
03:03 < rxr> I do not think we should make it more complicated - and more important - we should keep this compatible toe 2.0 when possible - so .conf files can easier be merged (copied)
03:04 < mnemoc> that's is a good point, 
03:04  * rxr wants this firefox (or what this browsers name extracted in the mozilla dir was)
03:04 < rxr> (that is compiling for ages)
03:05 < rxr> (well - ok - I had to fix a compile error in the middle - so it was idling - but why does a damn tiny browser needs to compile so long ?!?!
03:05 < rxr> )
03:05 < rxr> (and why does the tarball contains all - including the editor and mail client ... ?!?!?
03:05 < rxr> )
03:05 < mnemoc> can you compare it with mozilla (buildtime?)
03:05 < rxr> hm - I build it manually - so now :-(
03:06 < rxr> maybe I package it later (when it proves useful)
03:06 < rxr> and compare the .cache then ...
03:07 < rxr> so - 2.6.5 (with some .config hacking to find a stable combination) does now seem to run stable on PowerPC/Apple ...
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03:11 < mnemoc> going back to download thing... 2.0 compatibility is a good point, but create an $archdir in every build just to cleanly do n (must be around 2) tar $taropt $archdir/foo-$ver.tar.bz2 is not as good as removing $archdir, version capturing, and extension conversion need but dirtily used by a few packages.
03:12 < rxr> well - this are 2 symlinks ....
03:13 < rxr> but I agree that a grep file from download list helper could cleanup the .conf files even further
03:15 < rxr> why the hack is this motilla browser building s.th. in mozilla/mailnews
03:15 < rxr> !?!?!?
03:15 < rxr> I disabled this in the config ....
03:15 < rxr> strange browser cleanup strategy ...
03:19 < mnemoc> thunderbird is the best choice for windows, but i not so sure it is for linux ;) ... 
03:19 < rxr> additinoally strange is that config giles still use PHOENIX as variable names
03:19 < mnemoc> firefox... firefox... it's faster than mozilla as browser 
03:19 < mnemoc> well.. keep to download thing in mind... cleaner .conf files can be a better presentation card than a few milliseconds in build time.
03:20 < rxr> but I would rather do both - being 2.0 compatible where possible - and introducing a helper function to pattern match files in D tags
03:24 < mnemoc> oh... ack =)
03:31 < rxr> all those Motilla build instructions are a strange joke
03:33 < mnemoc> motilla :)
03:35 < rxr> yes damn crap
03:36 < rxr> and I only tried it because I thought (...) it might be the aster way to get a full-featured browser on my gcc-3.4 iBook until kdelibs and kdebase finish ...
03:36 < rxr> (when s.th. goes onto my nerves I seem to have the tendeny to fill in t's)
03:37 < rxr> hopefully now all is configured to only bulld this browser ...
03:40 < mnemoc> make the force bree with you
03:45 < rxr> ah Ic on your side the r ie near the e, too ;-)
03:47 < rxr> mnemoc: btw, maybe 2004050801470118856 if in your interesst
04:01 < mnemoc> re
04:02 < mnemoc> sort -k?
04:03 < mnemoc> the most important typo in spanish is bv, the are together and sound d exactly the same 
04:08 < mnemoc> .oO( i would like to read the POSIX standard some day )o
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05:34 < fake> fake's third commandment: "it's hard to connect to a closed port."
07:36 < MadTux> certainly it is..
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10:06 < BoS> moin
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10:36 < daja77> moin
10:37 < netrunner> moin, 2
10:37  * netrunner baking raffaelo tart
10:39 < daja77> :)
10:49 < BoS> mhhh ...
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10:57 < blindy> moi
10:57 < blindy> n
10:58 < BoS> re
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12:41 < rxr> rehi
12:45 < rxr> hm- firefox is not shicking cool
12:49 < rxr> valentin: in firefox the http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/ favicon appears ...
13:01 < rxr> hm - sad this nice pinstripe theme for firefox is MacOSX only :-(
13:05 < rxr> hm when I click on install new theme firefox just closes ...
13:09 < valentin> rxr:in konqueror, too.
13:10 < lowy> mittag
13:10 -!- lowy is now known as LowLander
13:12 < rxr> valentin: what do you try with konqueror?
13:13 < rxr> valentin: 2.6.5 is now running stable here - has been preemtion support
13:13 < valentin> rxr:favicon
13:16 < rxr> oehm - valentin have you an idea what this person wants to tell me:
13:16 < rxr> :-) One small thing - you use "dUmMy" extensively, but never actually 
13:16 < rxr> declare it. Needless to say, the compiler dislikes this!  
13:16 < rxr> What type should this be? Or should I be commenting these references, 
13:16 < rxr> like most of the earlier examples? 
13:17 < valentin> c++ / templates / default type - or what context ?
13:18 < rxr> no - SANE/Avision
13:18 < rxr> and $ grep -i dummy avision.{h,c}
13:18 < rxr> does not yield anything
13:18 < valentin> who was telling you sane did so ?
13:19 < rxr> this is from an email in my inbox
13:19 < rxr> my brain is unable to parse it ...
13:20 < rxr> so I asked you ...
13:21 < valentin> this guy does not give you a file:line or sth ?
13:21 < rxr> no
13:21 < rxr> this this text I'm unable to understand ...
13:21 < valentin> so just tell him to do so
13:21 < rxr> I already did - just wanted to know if I overlooked s.th. important ...
13:22 < valentin> rxr:can you forward the mail ?
13:22 < rxr> I already send the reply
13:22 < rxr> sent even
13:24 < rxr> good that:
13:24 < rxr> == 10:34:01 =[5]=> Building kde/kdebase [3.2.2 2.1.0-DEV].
13:24 < rxr> so I do not need to use firefox much longer
13:24 < valentin> :)
13:32 < LowLander> what is the diffrence between a cross-build and that semi/fake cross build in the extended options menu
13:38 < rxr> the prseudo cross build is just using a cross compiler for native builds to decouple the host from the build system (needed for difference glibc/gcc build)
13:38 < rxr> (but we use it just ever to keep the code-path tested and avoid gcc/glibc trouble)
13:38 < rxr> a cross build is a real cross build where host and build architecture differ
13:40 < LowLander> but a cross build x86->x86 should also work , right ?
13:40 < LowLander> so why the pseudo cross build ?
13:41 < fake> lowlander: in a real cross build, the build env will not try to run built executables
13:41 < LowLander> ah
13:42 < rxr> LowLander: and for a real cross build we can not yet build all packages - it is limited to the base ones ...
13:42 < LowLander> so powerpc must be build on powerpc and x86 or x86 , etc.
13:42 < LowLander> or=on
13:43 < rxr> no - you can build a ROCK base system for powerpc on x86
13:43 < rxr> but not more
13:43 < rxr> historically gcc was too limited - with recent gcc's this should be possible - and it is on the todo for a later rock version - maybe 2.2 - to build all in cross builds
13:43 < fake> if you do a 'real' cross build, fewer packages can be built. example: kde's 'moc' is built and then used in the further build process. in a cross build that wouldn't work
13:47 < LowLander> damn the building yer own target in the manual is a "@@FIXME" ;-)
13:48 < rxr> yes - but intended ro be written in the next days
13:49 < LowLander> but over all looks like a nice manual
13:49 < rxr> just look at the desktop or bootdisk target for inspiration
13:50 < LowLander> will read it in more detail later
13:50 < rxr> LowLander: thanks ;-)
13:51 < rxr> wow - firefox is one of the first apps I saw getting scrolling in selections right 
13:51 < LowLander> scrolling in sellections ?
13:52 < rxr> or - better scrolling while selecting
13:53 < LowLander> and what is wrong and what is right ?
13:54 < rxr> right is when you go out of the canvas (text, graphic area) to let the canvas scroll to advance the selection and the canvas scroll automatically
13:54 -!- Lorini_ is now known as Lorini
13:55 < rxr> wrong (IMO) is when it does not scroll when you do not move the mouse - but only scrolls each time you move the mouse by a pixel
13:55 < rxr> this also has the effeact that moving the mouse make the canvas scroll faster
13:55 < rxr> the wrong version is easier to implement - and many apps do this
13:56 < LowLander> ah yeah
13:56 < LowLander> i think the closer you get to the border the faster it should scroll
13:57 < rxr> yes - that is an indepdant thing - most apps do this
13:57 < rxr> but most apps do not auto-scroll - you must move the mouse outside the canvas area to make it scroll
13:57 < LowLander> thats not good
13:57 < LowLander> but easy
13:58 < LowLander> on_mouse_move() { do_scrol(); }
13:58 < rxr> for auto scrolling one needs a state and additional timeer
13:58 < LowLander> but staemachines are evil ;-)
13:58 < rxr> ho - recent konquerors also do this right ;-)
13:58  * LowLander is not a KDE fan
13:59  * rxr is ;-)
13:59 < LowLander> actually i am just not a Qt fan
13:59 < LowLander> which kind of rubs of on KDE
14:01 < LowLander> ./scripts/Build-Pkg: line 213: chroot: command not found
14:01 < rxr> I also do not like Qt that much - but the end result, KDE, is great
14:01 < LowLander> add /usr/sbin/ to the build scripts
14:01 < rxr> oh
14:02 < LowLander> when i just su i don'T have the /sbin and /usr/sbin/ in my PATH
14:02 < LowLander> why does chroot actually need root-rights ?
14:03 < rxr> because you create an own environment with it's own permission combinations and so on
14:04 < LowLander> but you reduce "rights" with chroot
14:04 < rxr> imageing a simple LowLander = UID=0 and so on
14:04 < rxr> but you can easily layout files to extend right
14:04 < rxr> but you can easily layout files to extend rights
14:04 < LowLander> ah yeah
14:05 < LowLander> you could create a new system-etc inside the filesystem and use those rights to access files
14:05 < LowLander> but i still don'T feel to good about running something large like ROCK-build as root
14:06 < LowLander> wouldn't it be possible to run it as non-root and have a chroot-script that is suid or that asks the root password
14:06 < LowLander> or are there more things than chroot needed
14:57 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@pD9E8CAB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
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15:18 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@dialin-145-254-136-155.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:19 < nzg> moin 
15:23 < nzg> moin 
15:45 < mnemoc> moin
15:45 < daja77> moin mnemoc 
15:46 < mnemoc> daja77! the faster greeting-er of the net
15:56 < mnemoc> .oO( automatized greeting? )o
15:56 < daja77> no
15:56 < netrunne1> tart finished.
15:56 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
15:57 < mnemoc> hi netrunner 
16:00 < netrunner> muahaha http://fun.drno.de/pics/animals/galileo-dog_found.jpg
16:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
16:01 < mnemoc> tasted like chicken??!!
16:07 < fake> *rofl*
16:10 < daja77> hehe
16:15 < netrunner> how do I get a pointer to the object from an iterator?
16:17 < LowLander> *i
16:17 < LowLander> if yer talking C++ :-)
16:18 < LowLander> or (*i).first    of (*i).second if you have a map<>
16:19 < netrunner> jup. but this is then Object*& ... I need something like Object* If I understand it right.
16:20 < LowLander> what did you put in the container ?
16:20 < LowLander> and Object*& is just an reference to a pointer, which is just as good as a pointer
16:23 < LowLander> but anyway i need to get some shopping done, bbl
16:24 < netrunner> LowLander: hm, that's a good point.
16:28 < netrunner> hm, there are pointers in the iterator.
16:28 < netrunner> can I do *(*(i)) ?
16:29  * netrunner turns red while showing that he has no idea of c++ ;)
16:29 < mnemoc> **i looks nicer
16:30 < netrunner> conversion from Object* to non-scalar type requested :/
16:30 < netrunner> s/type/type `Object'/
16:34 < mnemoc> does imap4 has something like 'passive mode'?
16:36 < mnemoc> there is a server from which i only get the mail list, but not content... from any computer/MUA in this whole network, but from home it works perfectly
16:36 < netrunner> hm, how do I make a reference from a pointer? I mean If I have *Object, how do I get &Object from that?
16:36 < netrunner> cast somehow?
16:39 < mnemoc> a reference to a pointer?
16:39 < mnemoc> you can reference a var which can contain a pointer
16:40  * netrunner is completely puzzled and considers going back to java or perl :)
16:41 < mnemoc> a pointer is an address, you can't get the address of an address
16:42 < mnemoc> *i the var 'i' contains a pointer to an object
16:43 < mnemoc> **i the var 'i' contains a pointer to another memory block which contains a pointer to an object
16:44 < netrunner> &i is a reference to the data, also containing it's type?
16:44 < netrunner> or is &i just the adress of the data in i?
16:46 < mnemoc> &i is the addres of the var 'i'
16:46 < mnemoc> the object pointed doesn't have type
16:54 < netrunner> thx ... I think I have to think a bit over what I wrote ...
16:54 < dsoul> :)
17:06 < mnemoc> netrunner: you need to know the 'type' of a pointer? there are tricks to do that if you want.
17:49 -!- nookie [~nookie@M333P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
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18:28  * fake forked 'livecd' target
18:29 < fake> blindy: ping
18:31 < LowLander> fake where can i get it ? :-)
18:43 < fake> LowLander: cd target && cp -a bootdisk livecd
18:43 < fake> ;))
18:43 < mnemoc> LOL
18:43 < fake> with some adotions, of course.
18:43 < dsoul> :>
18:44 < fake> floppy generation removed, 2nd_stage_small removed, isolinux help0.txt with 'LIVE CD' and all references to 'install' removed.
18:44 < fake> *GG*
18:50 < fake> wow, by now about 600 patches are in submaster
18:52 < mnemoc> fake: look at right-bottom corner
18:54 < fake> mnemoc: i did that, for all past months, and used a fuzzy^H^H^H^H^Hlazy sum algorythm
18:54 < mnemoc> :p
18:54 < fake> ;)
18:58 < LowLander> fake :-P
18:58 < LowLander> <--- phone
19:01 < fake> <--- fake
19:10 -!- Lorini [~Andrea@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has left #rocklinux ["Irre explodieren nicht, wenn das Sonnenlicht sie trifft, ganz egal, wie irre sie sind."]
19:21 < fake> that's 'from dusk til dawn', right?
19:25 < mnemoc> music=
19:25 < mnemoc> ?
19:30 < fake> no, the logoff text of Lorini
19:31 -!- darix- [darix@monsters.rsn.uni-rostock.de] has joined #rocklinux
19:31 < mnemoc> :\
19:32 -!- darix- [darix@monsters.rsn.uni-rostock.de] has left #rocklinux ["All rights reversed"]
19:45 < rxr> rehi
19:46 < mnemoc> hi rxr
19:46 < valentin> re, hi
19:46 < mnemoc> hi valentin 
19:51 < mnemoc> there is any 'classic' ftp uid/gid ?
19:53 -!- trekkie3k [k3t@p54804250.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
19:55 -!- MadTux [~mike@master.hack-solutions.com] has joined #rocklinux
19:55 < MadTux> moin.
19:58 < mnemoc> moin MadTux 
20:16 < daja77> re
20:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB96E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:32 -!- link_ [~link_@adsl.xan.ch] has joined #rocklinux
21:07 < MadTux> link_: !!
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21:25 -!- justtony [~anthony_w@64.239.27.24.cfl.rr.com] has joined #rocklinux
21:25 < justtony> is there a good vulnerability scanner other than nessus?
21:37 -!- MadTux [~mike@master.hack-solutions.com] has quit ["leaving"]
21:41 -!- justtony [~anthony_w@64.239.27.24.cfl.rr.com] has left #rocklinux []
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22:53 -!- k3t_ [k3t@pD9E8DEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Why?"]
22:57 < rxr> anyone around?
22:58 < daja77> me raises slowly his hand
22:58 < LowLander> nope
22:58 < rxr> ;-)
22:58 < rxr> hi
22:58 < daja77> hi rxr
22:58 < rxr> hi daja77 
23:04 < rxr> after a day with thunderbird I still fins konqueor superb - and I'm really happy about:
23:04 < rxr> == 05/06/04 13:22:51 =[5]=> Finished building package kdebase.
23:05 < daja77> there are currently 5 broken kde packages
23:05 < rxr> overall after all the fixes my gcc-3.4 system here get's in shapre
23:06 < rxr> especially since I first dropped dillo w/ firefox and the firefox w/ konqueror ,)
23:06 < daja77> :)
23:06 < rxr> I have to admint dillo was the fastest - but featureless ...
23:06 < rxr> (does not even support CSS)
23:06 < rxr> but most sites render instantly
23:06 < valentin> re
23:06 < rxr> (when they render
23:06 < rxr> )
23:06 < rxr> hi valentin 
23:07 < rxr> valentin: I just packaged thunderbird and firefox
23:07 < rxr> I'll quickly testbuild them and commit into submaster
23:07 < valentin> rxr:thanks
23:08 < LowLander>  arpd.c:729: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this funct ..
23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:821: request for member `sync' in something not a ..
23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:840: request for member `close' in something not  ..
23:08 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:844: request for member `close' in something not  ..
23:08 < LowLander> !> make[1]: *** [arpd.o] Error 1
23:08 < LowLander> !> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ROCK/src.iproute2.108402882 ..
23:09 < LowLander> !> make: *** [all] Error 2
23:09 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.err
23:09 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 17:07:33 =[5]=> Aborted building package iproute2.
23:09 < rxr> LowLander: what target do you build?
23:10 < LowLander> 2.1.0-DEV-x86-bootdisk-expert
23:10 < rxr> hm - interesting - ah!
23:11 < LowLander> "ah" as in "ah i know whats wrong" ?
23:11 < rxr> I can imagine
23:11 < rxr> mom
23:15  * daja77 off for some street music
23:15 < rxr> LowLander: ok
23:15 < LowLander> ok?
23:15 < rxr> take your fav. editor
23:15 < rxr> package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf
23:16 < LowLander> done
23:16 < rxr> got to the end of the file wich lists:
23:16 < rxr> if [ $stagelevel -le 1 ]; then
23:16 < rxr>         var_append patchfiles ' ' $confdir/bdb_unavailable.diff
23:16 < rxr> fi
23:16 < rxr> remove the lines: if ....
23:16 < rxr> fi ...
23:16 < rxr> so the file is always included to the patchfiles
23:17 < rxr> and save the file
23:17 < rxr> and save the file
23:17 < rxr> (sorry - was wrong window for up-arrow)
23:17 < LowLander> hehe
23:17 < rxr> when saved remove the log file
23:17 < LowLander> ok let me try
23:18 < rxr> build/<your-install-target>/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.err
23:18 < rxr> if your build is still running - it will be automatically rebuild
23:18 < rxr> if you stopped the build continue it ...
23:18 < rxr> if this does work I commit the proper fix
23:24 < LowLander> == 23:24:06 =[5]=> Building base/iproute2 [2.4.7-ahu-20021020 2.1.0-DEV].
23:24 < LowLander> -> Reading package configuration from package directory.
23:24 < LowLander> -> Preparing build in src.iproute2.1084051443.12048.853072914
23:24 < LowLander> -> Building. Writing output to $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out
23:24 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.log
23:24 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 23:24:31 =[5]=> Finished building package iproute2.
23:25 < rxr> ok
23:25 < LowLander> Creating small 2nd stage filesystem:
23:25 < LowLander> -> Copy the most important programs ...
23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: eject
23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: mkreiserfs
23:25 < LowLander> !> `- Program not found: disktype
23:26 < rxr> have those packages build correctly ?
23:27 < LowLander> i  have no error log files anymore
23:27 < rxr> hm
23:27 < LowLander> maybe they are not build at all
23:27 < LowLander> maybe a broke something
23:28 < rxr> do you have logs in build/<id>/var/adm/logs/5-$pkg.log ?
23:28 < rxr> for reiserfsprogs, eject and disktype?
23:29 < LowLander> hmmm  nope
23:29 < rxr> LowLander: you have no such logs?
23:30 < LowLander> nope
23:30 < rxr> but you are in the right dir? there are other logs?
23:30 < LowLander> yes loads of them , including the iproute one
23:30 < LowLander> which hat a .err before 
23:31 -!- nookie_ is now known as nookie
23:31 < rxr> interesting
23:31 < rxr> what have you configured? the normal bootdisk target?
23:32 < rxr> or did you add package selection templates or custom package selections ?
23:32 < LowLander> got bootdisk
23:32 < LowLander> include kiss
23:32 < LowLander> ANSI colors
23:32 < LowLander> show expert
23:32 < LowLander> create tar.bz2
23:33 < LowLander> minimal+xfree)
23:33 < LowLander> pseudo cross
23:33 < LowLander> speed
23:33 < LowLander> disable rtti/excp
23:33 < LowLander> disable national
23:33 < LowLander> create cache
23:34 < LowLander> run paranoia
23:34 < LowLander> thats it
23:34 < rxr> youwhy did you selected minimal+xfree in the bootdisk target?
23:34 < LowLander> yep
23:34 < rxr> why?
23:34 < LowLander> why not ?
23:34 < LowLander> just messing around
23:34 < rxr> bootdisk is already a well know really minimal setup ...
23:35 < LowLander> when the option is there i try it
23:35 < rxr> minimal+xfree removes some packages (e.g. eject, disktype) useful in the installer
23:35 < rxr> yeah - sure this is ok
23:35 < rxr> this even builds
23:35 < LowLander> so that option should not be posible :-)
23:35 < rxr> but the consequence is that you get a warning during the bootdisk environment creation
23:35 < rxr> no - it is perfectly fine - you just get what you asked for ...
23:35 < rxr> ;-)
23:36 < LowLander> well not really , i dodn't ask for errors ;-P
23:36 < rxr> you know get a bootable ISO with this changed feature set:
23:36 < rxr> - no eject (does not hurt you - when your CD drive has hardware eject)=
23:36 < rxr> - you are not able to create reiserfs
23:37 < rxr> - your installer will have limited functionallity due to missing disk detection disktype ...
23:37 < rxr> the rest is fine
23:37 < rxr> the config would be way slower if it should check those constraits, too ;-)
23:37 < rxr> it already checks _a lot_
23:38 < LowLander> why is it so slow, is that just a bash problem ?
23:38 < LowLander> wait the config is C
23:38 < rxr> only parly - it already reparses many package selections rules ...
23:39 < rxr> no, the config is bash - and in 2.1 with an accelerator bash plugin written in C
23:39 < rxr> you can just use your build the way it is
23:39 < rxr> you could just add reiserfsprogs and disktype to the custom selection - this will make your buidl a bit more functional
23:40 < rxr> or leave it as it is - when this fits your needs
23:40 < rxr> LowLander: can you do me a favour?
23:40 < LowLander> sure
23:40 < rxr> svn revert package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf
23:40 < rxr> (this will revert your local changes)
23:40 < rxr> svn up package/base/iproute2
23:40 < rxr> (this will get the proper fix I just committed)
23:41 < rxr> rm build/<id>/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.log
23:41 < rxr> restart the build (to test my change ;-)
23:41 < LowLander> Updated to revision 2878.
23:41 < rxr> yep you should have get 
23:41 < rxr> U package/base/iproute2/iproute2.conf
23:45 < LowLander> == 23:44:43 =[5]=> Building base/iproute2 [2.4.7-ahu-20021020 2.1.0-DEV].
23:45 < LowLander> -> Reading package configuration from package directory.
23:45 < LowLander> -> Preparing build in src.iproute2.1084052672.23065.2293573654
23:45 < LowLander> -> Building. Writing output to $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out
23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:729: `R_NEXT' undeclared (first use in this funct ..
23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:821: request for member `sync' in something not a ..
23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:840: request for member `close' in something not  ..
23:45 < LowLander> !> arpd.c:844: request for member `close' in something not  ..
23:45 < LowLander> !> make[1]: *** [arpd.o] Error 1
23:45 < LowLander> !> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ROCK/src.iproute2.108405267 ..
23:45 < LowLander> !> make: *** [all] Error 2
23:45 < LowLander> -> $root/var/adm/logs/5-iproute2.out -> 5-iproute2.err
23:45 < LowLander> == 05/08/04 23:45:13 =[5]=> Aborted building package iproute2.
23:45 < LowLander> !> Creation of binary package isn't possible,
23:45 < LowLander> !> because the package was not successfully
23:45 < LowLander> !> built in (at least) the current stage.
23:48 < rxr> ok sec
23:49 < dsoul> :>
23:53 < rxr> ok - retry ;-)
--- Log closed Sun May 09 00:00:34 2004