--- Log opened Tue May 18 00:00:46 2004
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03:01 < mnemoc> hi
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07:20 < netrunner> argl. stone in my last build looks for packages.db in 2.1.0-DEV.../ instead of 2.1.0-DEV.../pkgs/packages.db where it is. :(
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07:42 < blindy> moin
08:21 < netrunner> hi blindy 
08:25 < blindy> hi netti
08:29 < netrunner> blindy: have you used a recently built bootdisk?
08:31 < blindy> no
08:31 < blindy> broken again?
09:15 -!- tiefengrund [~kopper@217.225.167.157] has joined #rocklinux
09:16 < tiefengrund> hello@all
09:18 -!- BoS [~BoS@dialin-145-254-190-167.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
09:20 < BoS> moin
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09:49 -!- esden|zZz is now known as esden
10:05 < netrunner> ah, it is already fixed, I should rebuild my bootdisk every once in a while ;)
10:10 < blindy> hehe
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11:36 < owl_> hi
11:37 < blindy> moin
11:37 < owl_> hi blindy 
11:41 < dsoul> hi owl, blindy 
11:41 < owl_> hi dsoul 
11:43 < blindy> moin dsoul 
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12:12 < netrunne1> hm. this cygwin terminal is much more comfortable than the putty one.
12:12 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
12:15 < rxr>  hi
12:15 < dsoul> hi rxr 
12:16  * rxr is ill ...
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12:20 < blindy> moin rxr
12:20 < blindy> rxr: then go to bed and cure out that illness
12:23 < rxr> I have been in bed since yesteray 13.00
12:24 < netrunner> rxr: the linux24 patch seems a bit incomplete, I currently try to fix missing things (@work ;)
12:24 < rxr> netrunner: I know
12:25 < netrunner> had to rebuild my bootdisk and ran over this. I must fix this if I want to install my last build :)
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12:41 < netrunner> ah, fine, it builds now.
12:41 < netrunner> rxr: I added my bits as package/base/linux24/999-gcc_appender.patch as I cannot offer a public download location, is that ok?
12:42 < rxr> no - they should all be grouped
12:43 < rxr> send your bits over so I can add it to our patch
12:43 < netrunner> rxr: shall I mail it to you so you append it to your patch?
12:43 < netrunner> oki
12:43 -!- owl_ [~owl@D70ae.d.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
12:44 < owl_> lalala. i move myselfe to the garden and the sun which was shining till now, disappears. gaaaah!
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13:47 < netrunner> scripts/Download -full build/bootdisk... does not do what I expect it to do.
13:50 < blindy> well
13:50 < blindy> I assume you meannt Cleanup instead of Download
13:50 < dsoul> netrunner and what do you expected?
13:51 < netrunner> blindy: yup ;)
13:51 < netrunner> dsoul: that it just removes the specified dir.
13:54 < netrunner> maybe I just read the script wrong, but I am not eager to find out.
13:56 < owl_> hmm. how do i remount a filesystem?
13:57 < blindy> mount -o remount
13:57 < owl_> well... than i'm not stupid. thx
13:59 < owl_> wah! wtf is it still having problems with this?!!!
14:00 < owl_> "Fatal: open /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/part1: no such file or directory" 
14:00 < owl_> i have no HD or other device there GNARF
14:02 < dsoul> maybe bus0 :)
14:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAA9DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:04 < owl_>  hm? lilo wants to access it... but - i didn't write down such a crapinto lilo... 
14:04 < netrunner> owl_: then where have you installed lilo?
14:05 < owl_> netrunner: in /sbin/lilo? on /dev/ide/host1/bus0/target0/lun0/part1. why?
14:06 < netrunner> owl_: you just said you have no hd there ...
14:07 < owl_> and: lilo is installed on mbr, /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc - hda
14:09 < blindy> owl_: because there *point* you wrote host1, there *point* bus1 and then host0/bus0
14:09 < blindy> which one do you mean?
14:14 < owl_> haeh??? where?
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14:14 < owl_> boot = /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc
14:14 < owl_> but i havt to drive to therapy now. cya
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15:41 < daja77> my new new libsdl patch is working, nice
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15:51 < blindy> moin daja77 
15:51 < blindy> nice
15:51 < blindy> mein esden 
15:52 < blindy> eeh
15:52 < blindy> moin
15:52 < daja77> blindy: for some strange reason they are unable to provide a working patch themselves
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15:52 < blindy> d'oh
15:53 < daja77> they diff'ed crap which doesn't apply and such stuff
15:53 -!- christian_ [~christian@pD9530D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
15:53 < daja77> so i catched up their intention and did it myself ...
15:55 < blindy> well done :)
15:55 < daja77> fighting with submaster atm >_<
15:55 < blindy> daja77: do you know the final fantasy legend kind of games?
15:55 < blindy> or the early final fantasy games?
15:56 < daja77> heard of them, maybe i even played one of them long ago
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15:57 < blindy> hmm, ok
15:57 < blindy> then I guess you don't know an open source engine for those kind of games
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15:58 < daja77> hm think there is one 
15:58 < daja77> but forgot the name
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16:00 < blindy> damn
16:00 < blindy> will have to do that on my own, it seems
16:08 < daja77> ok should be online now
16:10 < blindy> daja77: you say it works?
16:11 < daja77> it compiles, if it works i can't tell until i have a complete gcc-3.4 build to play with some apps, but i think it should work
16:12 < blindy> ok, I trust you on this 
16:12 < daja77> you could try it, and don't forget to remove the gcc wrapper line in conf file, if you applied the prevoius patch
16:12 < daja77> ok
16:12 < LowLander> afternoon
16:13 < daja77> hi LowLander 
16:25  * blindy headnig home
16:25 < blindy> bye
16:25 < daja77> cu blindy 
16:29 < mnemoc> moin
16:35 < daja77> hi mnemoc 
16:36 < daja77> have I mentioned before that i hate project release patches that do not apply
16:36 < mnemoc> which project?
16:37 < daja77> kde atm
16:37 < daja77> libsdl before that
16:42 -!- tiefengrund [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:46 < mnemoc> daja77: tcr was premonitory, i have started to feel ignored
16:46 < daja77> huh?
16:47 < mnemoc> ML
16:47 < mnemoc> but don't worry, it's just a bad day
16:47 < daja77> it is cliffords birthday ^^
16:48 < mnemoc> yeah?!!
16:48 < daja77> yep
16:49 < daja77> according to orkut :)
16:50 < mnemoc> oh, i haven't entered orkut from a while
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16:55 < blindy> re
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16:57 < MadTux> yo.
17:02 < blindy> moin maddy
17:03 < mnemoc> moin blindy
17:03 < mnemoc> moin Tuxie
17:03 < MadTux> hi geeks..
17:03 < MadTux> :P
17:04 < mnemoc> :)
17:16 -!- netrunne1 [~andreas@pD9E8CD23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #rocklinux
17:20 < netrunne1> argl, 1-gzip failed
17:20 < daja77> O_o
17:21 < mnemoc> uhm?
17:24 -!- netrunner [~andreas@pD9E8CBA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
17:26 < mnemoc> anyone has used kamache?
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18:00 < daja77> mnemoc: what is that
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18:05 < MadTux> link_: yo Sascha
18:06 < link_> hi Mike :)
18:06 < link_> you're here finaly :)
18:07 < link_> can you change my adress in your mailclient? i maybe will not work there anymore soon
18:07 < mnemoc> daja77: a webserver
18:08 < MadTux> link_: please send me an email to mike_at_linuxlabs.com with ur new email addy so i will have it :)
18:08 < link_> mike, okay
18:08 < MadTux> mnemoc: i used it long ago
18:08 < MadTux> long meaning more than 4 years..
18:08 < mnemoc> MadTux: how was the experience?
18:09 < MadTux> stay with apache :)
18:09 < mnemoc> ok :)
18:12 < rolla> apache rules ;)
18:14 < mnemoc> those russians of CLIP added a module for kamache instead of apache :(
18:15 < link_> MadTux: did you recieve it ?
18:18 < MadTux> mnemoc: so take their work and contribute it to apache
18:18 < MadTux> link_: yes i did thank you.
18:19 < link_> mike. ow, on wich adress did you send? is it sasch_at_tyr.xan.ch? or sascha_at_xan.ch ?
18:20 < MadTux> tyr... but u wrote the right now so relax :)
18:20 < link_> hm, i have to configure, that i receive mails to that adress too
18:25 < mnemoc> MadTux: when i reach that need i'll do it
18:42 -!- cchamilt [~chatzilla@218.212.49.138] has joined #rocklinux
18:43 < cchamilt> Hello
18:43 < cchamilt> Anyone want to discuss bsd porting?
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18:45 < mnemoc> cchamilt: what do you mean?
18:46 < cchamilt> Well it is often mumbled that it would be nice to use the bsd kernel or other things in rock.
18:46 < MadTux> cchamilt: yo.
18:46 < MadTux> bsd ports on rock..
18:47 < cchamilt> In fact, many times rock has made design concessions for this.
18:47 < cchamilt> No, like replacing kernels.
18:47 < cchamilt> hi madtux
18:47 < MadTux> back in the pre-1.7 times we had good chances to used bsd ports 
18:48 < cchamilt> yes, well that is another issure that actually has its own problems I think (mostly the ports all install in /usr/local).
18:49 < cchamilt> It just seems that there is always a talk of 'when rock supports bsd'.  I wonder if it is possible.
18:49 < cchamilt> I mean think about it - bsd kernel linked libc running in a chroot of linux?
18:50 < cchamilt> Ignoring whether it should be libc5 or glibc based, the libc would bare the cross-porting and I wonder if that is possible.
18:51 < cchamilt> should I say doubt it possible...
18:51 -!- blokkie [~blokkie@83-134-93-182.Kortrijk.GoPlus.FastDSL.tiscali.be] has joined #rocklinux
18:51 < blokkie> finaly 
18:52 < blokkie> I managed to get part of the scripts in  place :-)
18:52 < cchamilt> Could you build things in a chroot against a linux libc, then run them in the final install of a bsd libc?
18:53 < cchamilt> If it is possible, great ... cool...  Otherwise lets drop this for rock, unless we start making rock builds in a bochs system.
18:56 < daja77> bochs? are you kidding
18:57 < cchamilt> I have been looking at bochs for building linux/bsd cross building. IF cross kernel builds are wanted, I dont know of any other way.
18:58 < rxr> cchamilt: no
18:59 < rxr> this will be a complete cross build
18:59 < cchamilt> rxr: Well then how would you build bsd on linux?
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19:00 < cchamilt> All I can think of to make a full build is virtualization.
19:00 < rxr> I do not get where your problem is
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19:01 < rxr> it is also possible to build a linux kernel on solaris or windows
19:01 < rxr> but /me is ill -> off into bed
19:01 < cchamilt> I have no problems with building a cross-build chain, just a complete system.
19:02 < cchamilt> OK, cu rxr.
19:04 < cchamilt> I think it isnt very meta to have to boot into another host system to finish builds that is all.
19:05 < cchamilt> It seems very gentoolike actually.
19:08 < cchamilt> Oh well, I think bsd integrated with rock(or any distrolike os) is probably too much work.
19:11 < rxr> we want to support cross-build-everything anyway
19:12 < rxr> and thus cross-building-everything will be no additional problem with bsd stuff
19:14 < cchamilt> I was thinking of cross-building the chain (stage 0) for however bsd would be put in then, instead of starting to build in chroot - it would launch bochs and continue with a full build.
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19:16 < cchamilt> I know bochs is slow, and that it is not bsd capable it appears right now.
19:17 < cchamilt> rxr:Do you mean like cross-building kde?
19:19 < cchamilt> I thought at first 'everything' just meant supporting all cross chains possible.  Um, but you meant the whole distro?
19:21 < cchamilt> Isnt that ignoring the fact that many packages dont support cross-compiling natively.  And when they do, some fudge to get it working.
19:23 < mnemoc> cchamilt: cross-build a desktop from x86 to sparc :)
19:23 < daja77> i don't think so
19:23 < mnemoc> if that is posible, bsd too
19:24 < cchamilt> I'll admit that most cross-building problems are libc centric, but then were back to libc not exactly being the poster boy for compatibility.
19:24 < daja77> indeed
19:26 < rxr> cchamilt: no it is not libc centric
19:26 < rxr> cchamilt: most cross build problems come from the fact that packages want to run helper programs like qt moc ...
19:27 < rxr> there is no other mayor thing to do ...
19:27  * rxr finally of sleeping again
19:27 < cchamilt> Yes, and to do that cleanly, they have to be done in chroot?
19:27 < cchamilt> OK bye rxr.
19:27 < cchamilt> I guess I will shut up so rxr can get to sleep :).
19:28 < mnemoc> cchamilt: i _think_ that we can use gcc wrapper to choose between native or cross compiler on the fly :)
19:29 < mnemoc> chroot is not cross-arch compatible
19:29 < cchamilt> It isnt that simple.  Some things need ran on the resultant build some way - such as moc.
19:29 < cchamilt> That was my point that chroot would in no way work for rock with bsd anymore.
19:30 < mnemoc> the cross-build engine need no be rethinked
19:30 < cchamilt> You could run moc and other packages that need to run in the build from the host some way, but that is going to be lots of work.
19:30 < mnemoc> and chroot droped
19:31 < mnemoc> cchamilt: i think that is the only way to have full-cross-builds
19:31 < cchamilt> I just think that we will hit some pretty large walls just cross-compiling.
19:31 < cchamilt> chroot runs were there for more than just simplicity.
19:31 < mnemoc> yeah, it will be very^3 hard
19:32 < cchamilt> Well it looks like we either get more complicated in constructing binaries (more gcc and host work) or more virtualized.
19:33 < mnemoc> how do you cross-arch virtualize?
19:34 < cchamilt> Well, cross-arch is not current in my mind.  Bochs does run on other archs so we have *->x86, but no real virtualizer for any other arch.
19:35 < mnemoc> then, cosnidering that rock wants to be cross-arch, virtualization is not an option
19:35 < cchamilt> bochs should also eventual support things like building amd64 stuff on p3 cleanly I think.
19:35 < mnemoc> still x86
19:35 < cchamilt> I know, it may be bad for rock as a hack toy.
19:36 < mnemoc> i think that an smarted cc-wrapper can be a big help to do that cleanly
19:36 < cchamilt> There really is only arm, power, and x86 archs that are commercially viable though.
19:37 < mnemoc> if x86<->ppc work, all will work
19:37 < blokkie> and IA64/AMD64 ?
19:37 < daja77> cchamilt: tell this to the people who this sparc isos are vital
19:37 < cchamilt> IA64 is not commercially viable.
19:38 < blokkie> ugh ? 
19:38 < blokkie> yes it is 
19:38 < cchamilt> Well, I am glad that old hardware is getting recycled, I just dont think you should try and sell the result, that is all.
19:38 < cchamilt> IA64 has less than 10k processors sold.
19:39 < cchamilt> Intel cuts the price in half of the processor, opens up the chipset market, and then IA64 will be viable.
19:39 < mnemoc> as i said, if we achieve a full-cross-build between two wide used archs we will be very close to cross builds for any other gcc-supported arch
19:41 < mnemoc> i'll go to lunch... cu
19:41 < cchamilt> mnemoc: I agree, it is just that usually when you port a system, you make a build chain that cross-compiles and then bootstrap that on the resulting system and go native after.
19:41 < cchamilt> So rock would be definitely going into uncharted territory, even in computer science.
19:41 < cchamilt> cu mnemoc.
19:42 < mnemoc> rock is in "uncharted territory"
19:42 < mnemoc> :)
19:42 < mnemoc> cu
19:42 < blokkie> hehe
19:42 < cchamilt> :)
20:03 < blokkie> Is gnome 2.6  available for rocklinux ?
20:03 < daja77> yes
20:03 < blokkie> I tried Emerge-Pkg -dep gnome
20:03 < blokkie> but it fetches the 2.4
20:04 < daja77> you habe to update your src tree first
20:05 < blokkie> it said error@ Unknown module "rocklinux-snapshot"
20:07 < daja77> you could checkout trunk fro gnome2.6 stuff
20:09 < blokkie> so I need to change the path of the srcroot to www.rocklinux.org/trunk  ?
20:11 < blokkie> found it :-)
20:15 < blokkie> Update-System doesn't update my system
20:15 < blokkie> it brings me to the prompt straight away
20:33 < daja77> svn co svn://svn2.rocklinux-consulting.de/rock-linux/trunk 
20:51 < blokkie> thx
20:53 < daja77> np
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22:05  * netrunne1 fixed gzip for gcc34
22:05 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
22:05 < daja77> good
22:05 < netrunner> improves c knowledge every step :)
22:07  * netrunner -> bed. rebuilding glibc23 and linux26 in stage 5 takes an hour anyway.
22:12 < daja77> n8 netrunner 
22:13 < mnemoc> re
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22:50 < fake> hellp
22:50 < fake> <- needs C help
22:55  * mnemoc doubts
22:56 < LowLander> hmmm seems software patents will be here soon :-/
22:56 < mnemoc> uhm?
22:56 < LowLander> thanks to the strong "we are against it" germany that got cold feet in the end and vote yes
22:56 < mnemoc> what happened?
22:56 < mnemoc> oh
22:57 < LowLander> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/47477
22:57 < valentin> LowLander: http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/V002.ogg
22:57 < valentin> better cause english
22:57 < valentin> and more details
22:57 < LowLander> ah
22:57 < LowLander> well i already hate politicians enough
22:58 < mnemoc> =)
22:58  * LowLander is ashamed that an idiot like Bolkestein is dutch :-/
22:58 < LowLander> idiot
22:59 < LowLander> he always was doing what shell told him , even when he was in the dutch government
22:59 < LowLander> how strange when he is on the board of it
22:59 < LowLander> well lets hope the parlament votes no again 
22:59  * mnemoc pukes
23:00 < LowLander> but i don't think that will happen
23:00  * LowLander moves to hmmmm were are there no software patents yet
23:00 < LowLander> barasil ?
23:00 < LowLander> brasil even
23:01 < mnemoc> :)
23:01 < LowLander> but they are slowly being put under control of the US also
23:01 < LowLander> with the america trade thingy
23:02 < mnemoc> brazil don't care about anyone else
23:02 < rxr> "Small businesses need this" *lol*
23:02 < LowLander> yeah right
23:02  * mnemoc pukes again
23:02 < valentin> to patent inventions like a cpufreqd for handys
23:03 < fake> how can i 'listen' on a fifo without blocking?
23:03 < LowLander> fake what kind of fifo ?
23:03 < rxr> ok - valentin - could you please start the patent research and fill patents - so I can release my dyncpud in soem yeas?
23:03 < daja77> wb rxr
23:03 < fake> a simple named pipe
23:03 < LowLander> unix named pipe kind ?
23:03 < fake> yes
23:03 < LowLander> open it nonblocking
23:04 < LowLander> or use select
23:04 < fake> if i open it noblocking, how do i read() from it in a practical manner?
23:04 < LowLander> just read
23:04 < fake> if i use a while(1) loop, it eats 100% cpu
23:05 < LowLander> of course cause it doesn'T block
23:05 < valentin> fake: use select
23:05 < LowLander> it is just polling the fifo at top speed
23:05 < fake> boy, i never got that nonblocking i/o stuff
23:05 < LowLander> fake what are you trying to do ?
23:05 < LowLander> why do you need non-blocking
23:06 < fake> lowlander: just a daemon listening on a fifo, waiting for connections
23:06 < LowLander> it seems like you don't want non-blocking
23:06 < valentin> The functions select and pselect wait for a number of file  descriptors
23:06 < valentin>        to change status.
23:06 < fake> the problem is, if i block, my signals don't get handled
23:06 < LowLander> what signals ?
23:06 < fake> valentin: i thought poll() is better?
23:06 < LowLander> of course they are handled
23:06 < fake> LowLander: SIGKILL, SIGUSR1...
23:06 < LowLander> they are handled blocking or not
23:07 < fake> LowLander: but if i'm stuck in fopen(fifo,"r") while the signal arrives, nothing happens
23:07 < LowLander> when a signal comes in , the signal handler is called and when that returns the read will return with EINTR
23:07 < fake> oh, really?
23:07 < LowLander> fopen ?
23:07 < LowLander> you don't want fopen , you want open
23:08 < LowLander> and read and not fread
23:08 < fake> ah, open, just with O_RDONLY
23:08 < fake> got it
23:08  * fake didn't try blocking io with open yet ;)
23:08 < LowLander> rdonly on a fifo will block until a writer opens it too
23:08 < fake> so i have to open it RW?
23:08 < LowLander> fake it is all relatively good in the open manpage
23:09 < LowLander> or nonblocking
23:09 < LowLander> :-)
23:09 < fake> i read that quite often by now, maybe fakes intelligence < open manpage intelligence prerequisite
23:09  * fake trying some more
23:09 < LowLander> hehe
23:10 < valentin> fake: maybe poll is better...
23:10 < LowLander> select just works fine
23:11 < LowLander> or even just blocking read
23:13 < fake> hm
23:13 < LowLander> fake what are you doing anyway, you should be finishing yer live-cd
23:13 < LowLander> ;-P
23:13 < fake> if i open() blocking and send SIGKILL, my handler sets my exit-the-loop value, but open() doesn't interrupt
23:13 < LowLander> open rw
23:14 < fake> ok
23:14 < LowLander> than open will not block
23:14 < LowLander> but the read will
23:14 < fake> but read will block?
23:14 < fake> ok
23:14 < fake> fine ;)
23:14 < fake> trying...
23:17 < fake> same thing
23:18 < LowLander> hmm read might restart
23:18 < LowLander> than just use select with a 1 sec timeout
23:20 < fake> can you point me to an example?
23:26 < LowLander> the select man page has one
23:29 < fake> ... am i blind?
23:30 < fake> indeed, on linux
23:30 < fake> but the openbsd manpage doesnt >_<  
23:31 -!- owl_ [~owl@D70b0.d.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
23:31 < owl_> moin
23:33 < dsoul> hi owl :)
23:33 < fake> well, the linux manpage is much easier to actually understand, too
23:33 < fake> hi owl!
23:33 < owl_> hi dsoul ! :) hi fake !
23:33 < owl_> .oO(today is a good day ;)))
23:33 < LowLander> oh fake i didn't know you were on BSD :-)
23:33 < fake> and, besides, there is select_tut ;)
23:34 < owl_> hmm... moment...
23:34 < dsoul> owl yes its good becouse patch to glibc makes its compile :P
23:34 -!- owl_ [~owl@D70b0.d.pppool.de] has quit [Client Quit]
23:35 < owl> re ;)
23:35 < owl> hehe. congrats :)))
23:35 < fake> A signal will cause the select (or pselect) call to return
23:35 < fake>        with errno set to EINTR.
23:35 < fake> sw33t
23:37 < LowLander> exactly
23:37 < LowLander> but i think read should have that too
23:37 < LowLander>  EINTR  The call was interrupted by a signal before any data was read.
23:37 < LowLander> maybe bsd is different
23:38 < LowLander> POSIX
23:38 < LowLander>        allows  a read that is interrupted after reading some data to return -1
23:38 < LowLander>        (with errno set to EINTR) or to return  the  number  of  bytes  already
23:38 < LowLander>        read.
23:39 < LowLander> so blocking read should work too
23:39 < fake> yeah, but it doesn't ;)
23:39 < fake> select is fine
23:40 < owl> kasc: ?
23:52 < LowLander> fake did you setup yer signal handlers with sigaction ?
23:52 < LowLander> or with signal
23:52 -!- demian [allyourbas@pD9523E5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
23:52 < demian> hi
23:52 < LowLander> cause in sigaction you can say if some syscalls will be restartable
23:53 < owl> hi demian 
23:54 < fake> LowLander: sigaction
23:55 < LowLander> what does the BSD manpage say about SA_RESTART
23:56 < fake> interesting things *g*
23:56 < fake> If a signal is caught during the system calls list ...
23:57 < fake> but i have that flag set
23:57 < LowLander> well than it will restart
23:57 < LowLander> and thats not what you want
23:58 < LowLander> restart means read will not return with -1(EINTR) but will continue waiting
23:58 < fake> oh
--- Log closed Wed May 19 00:00:00 2004