--- Log opened Sat Jul 03 00:00:51 2004
00:18 < fake> oh how i haaaaaate it
00:18 < fake> glibc automake:
00:18 < fake> # The Linux kernel headers can be found in
00:18 < fake> #   /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/include
00:19 < daja77> glibc and automake ins one line, how evil
00:20 < fake> autoconf, pardon me
00:22 < daja77> no improvement
00:42 < fake> hey, the moon is stopping by
00:46 < mnemoc> aaaarg!! damn squirrelmail morrons!
00:49 < fake> huh?
00:49 < fake> .oO( sounds like i shouldn't hestitate updating it... )
00:51 < mnemoc> they just remove all translations into separate packages in a cvs revision of their damn-1.4-stable-tree
00:52 < fake> hm, definitely the first thing i would change in a stable tree, right after rewriting it in C#
00:53 < mnemoc> definitely
00:53 < fake> is huebi the maintainer? ;))
00:54  * mnemoc won't comment that
00:54 < fake> j/k
00:55 < mnemoc> ik :p
00:55 < fake> hm, did i miss something - if i add LoadModule php4_module modules/libphp4.so
00:55 < fake> and AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
00:55 < fake> to my apache 2.0.x httpd cpnf
00:55 < fake> it's supposed to parse .php files, right?
00:55 < fake> NARF
00:55 < fake> ME IDIOT
00:56  * mnemoc won't comment that neither
00:56 < fake> *lol*
00:56 < fake> it's been ling since i coded php the last time... gladly ;)
00:56 < fake> i forgot the surrounding <? ?> ;))
00:57 < mnemoc> when you found yourself surrounding with <% %> be worried
00:58  * fake coded JSP not so long ago...
00:58 < fake> not the big, big, capital  _J_
00:58 < fake> which is not to be mixed up with a lousy, nasty a
00:59 < mnemoc> don't try to defende yourself
01:00 < fake> i don't have to, i am innocent
01:00 < mnemoc> prove it
01:01 < fake> i don't have to. you have to proove me i am not ;P
01:01 < mnemoc> not here :)
01:01 < mnemoc> here you prove innocense
01:01 < fake> okay
01:02 < fake> my prove: i don't know a thing about C#
01:02 < fake> nuffin
01:02 < mnemoc> c# -> .aspx ;)
01:03 < fake> and the jsp i coded was for tomcat, not some closed source stuff.
01:03 < fake> thus, i am innocent.
01:03 < fake> qed.
01:04 < mnemoc> you are forgiven
01:04 < mnemoc> how do you read 'qed'? in german?
01:05 < mnemoc> .oO( i have always read it in spanish )o
01:05 < mnemoc> Queda Enteramente Demostrado
01:05 < fake> it's latin
01:05 < fake> quod erat demonstrandum
01:05 < fake> or some such
01:06  * fake only had a few years latin, of which i remember zarooo
01:06 < mnemoc> as i should have expected it sounds better in latin
01:07 < fake> now if i only knew where (<rxrmode>the hell</rxrmode>) php looks for php.ini 
01:07 < mnemoc> fake: here, only if you study hispanic literature, teology or philosophy you will have 2 years of latin
01:08 < mnemoc> strings libphp4.so | grep php.ini
01:08 < fake> mnemoc: uh... i have it for 5 yrs here, if you choose it
01:08 < fake> you can also choose french
01:09 < fake> on the ... high school, i assume
01:09 < fake> 'gymnasium'
01:09 < fake> now that i think of it, i had it from 7-9, which is 5 yrs in my case *G*
01:09 < fake> mnemoc: nice trick
01:09 < mnemoc> you are lucky if you get english on high school here :(
01:11 < fake> mnemoc: you are cr, right?
01:11 < mnemoc> .cl :\
01:12 < fake> uhm... 
01:12 < fake> are, shellconnection.com ?
01:13 < mnemoc> /me don't understand
01:14 < fake> what country is .cl? i don't know... sorry ;)
01:14  * fake just a stupid germany kraut
01:14 < mnemoc> chile
01:14 < fake> =y
01:14 < fake> aaah
01:14 < fake> right
01:14 < mnemoc> near kongo
01:15 < fake> sorry -_-
01:15 < mnemoc> don't worry :(
01:16 < mnemoc> fake: btw, /etc/opt/apache/php.ini
01:18 < mnemoc> 40 minutes left to go home and _finally_ sleep
01:19 < fake> mnemoc: oh... i could have looked there.
01:20 < fake> in phpinfo it says '--sysconfdir=/etc' 
01:21 < mnemoc> '--sysconfdir=/etc/opt/apache'
01:21 < fake> hrm. i may have missed something in scripts/Configure
01:22 < fake> damn...
01:22 < fake> no-go, still
01:23 < mnemoc> odd
01:23 < fake> it's /usr/lib
01:23 < fake> braindead
01:23 < mnemoc> did you build you php by hand?
01:24 < fake> mnemoc: no, scripts/Configure, Emerge-Pkg
01:24 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M260P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
01:24  * fake doesn't care for now
01:24 < mnemoc> odd^2
01:24 < fake> i even activaed mysql support
01:25 < fake> 2004-07-03 01:21:22 mythfilldatabase: Listings Download Finished
01:25 < fake> *finally*
01:26 < fake> it takes almost one hour just to download some EPG info...
01:26 < fake> weird
01:26 < fake> ~2,4 MB
01:27 < mnemoc> 28.8 line?
01:28 < fake> no, 1MBit DSL
01:38 < fake> cool
01:38 < fake> with mythweb i can now search for re-airings of shows i missed
01:38 < fake> this rules ^^
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01:40 < fake> on MDR there currently is "Hinten scheisst die Ente" ???
01:41 < Lorini> ?
01:42 < fake> i have no idea
01:42 < fake> i don't want to switch this thing on yet
01:45  * fake imagines himself as one of those weird TV 'mad professors': But... it's not finished yet!
02:01 < fake> ,... well, maybe not.
02:01 < mnemoc> can i change a work to upper/lower case with vim?
02:01 < mnemoc> word*
02:05 < fake> shift+~
02:05 < fake> aeh
02:05 < fake> just ~
02:06 < fake> but that's one char
02:06 < fake> but yes, that wors
02:06 < fake> wair
02:06 < fake> wait
02:07 < fake> gUw
02:07 < fake> make word uppercase
02:07 < fake> guw 
02:07 < fake> make workd lowercase
02:07 < fake> works with all movements insted of 'w'
02:09 < mnemoc> great :)
02:09 < mnemoc> mmm
02:09 < mnemoc> instead of w?
02:09 < fake> so, guG -> lowercase to end of line...
02:10 < mnemoc> i'll play tomorrow.. now it's time to _sleep_!!
02:10 < fake> mnemoc: sleep well then!
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02:33 < fake> boy am i tired...
02:37 < Lorini> go to bed ;)
02:38 < fake> ... its not finished yet!
02:38 < Lorini> what?
02:41 < fake> my tv
02:44 < Lorini> oh. i thought it was finished :)
02:45 < fake> it's getting the last features and eye-candys until i go through stabilizing the install tomorrow
02:45 < fake> and eventually package all that mythtv stuff
02:45 < fake> s,tomorrow,later today,
02:47 < Lorini> :)
02:55  * Lorini is goning to bed now
02:56 < Lorini> ..alone..
02:56 < Lorini> sleep well, later
02:58 < fake> n8!
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04:57 < rolla> re all
07:08 < blindy> moin
08:44 < daja77> moin blindy 
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09:37 < TxD> good morning
09:39 -!- TxD [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has quit [Client Quit]
09:52 < rxr> moin
09:53 -!- A-Tui [~aitor@143.Red-81-34-7.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #rocklinux
10:10 < esden> morning everyone
10:11 < A-Tui> morning esden
10:12 < rxr> moin esden and A-Tui 
10:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@pD9EAB732.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
10:36 < blindy> moin esden, A-Tui, rxr, *
10:40  * A-Tui is away: Nada más nacer comienzan a corrompernos
10:40 < blindy> rxr: any recommendations on where to live and where not to live in Berlin? I'm currently searching for a flat
10:42 < valentin> blindy: what kind of 'Umgebung' do you want ? Quiet or 'exiting' ? 
10:42 < valentin> blindy: and where do you work ?
10:45 < blindy> valentin: I work at Siemensdam
10:45 < blindy> Siemensdamm
10:46 < blindy> valentin: and mostly I prefer mostly quiet areas, having lived on the outskirts of Ingolstadt most of my life
10:53  * blindy gone, got some shopping to do
10:54 < esden> hmm noone in bitz :(
10:54 < esden> hi blindy 
10:54 < esden> cu blindy 
10:56 < esden> ok I have also shopping to do
10:56 < esden> cu all
11:44 -!- Netsplit saberhagen.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: blindy
11:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: blindy
11:47 < valentin> blindy: which trainstation at siemensdamm ?
11:51 < valentin> blindy: if you want a cheap and non-party area, then you might look for a flat in South of Wedding, where you can get into the inner city in about 15 minutes. If you want a realy quiet (but more expensive) area, you have to search in the more wealthy areas of west berlin 
12:22 < daja77> http://www.livejournal.com/users/nchip/3315.html
12:43 < rxr> is this real - or a fake?
12:43 < rxr> I hope they have rewritten it and do not run perl on the cell-phone ...
12:45 < daja77> no idea
12:46 < daja77> why not maybe it is not worse than running java on it
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13:27 < blindy> back
13:28 < blindy> valentin: the station at the "Domaene", no idea what the name was.
13:29 < blindy> valentin: a co-worker told me that Spandau/Charlottenburg is quite nice, but to get DSL you have to be lucky
13:31  * A-Tui is back (gone 02:51:33)
13:31 < rxr> blindy: tip: ask the t-com or other ISPs if you get DSL there, example: in my flat I only have t-com DSL line - no Arcor and no QSC :-(
13:31 < valentin> blindy: Spandau/Charlottenburg == nice for Spiessbuerger ,) But if you like it and can afford to live there ...
13:32 < rxr> and this is west berlin here - no optical fiber high-tech east ...
13:32 < valentin> rxr: i live in the east and have q-dsl :)
13:32 < blindy> rxr: I'd like to keep my T-Online Flatrate, so I'd have to get a T-Com DSL connection
13:33 < rxr> valentin: yes - I know, I just wanted to mention that it even can happen in west berlin, in most parts of the east you get nothing because the t-com does not want to use the high-tech optical fibres for that ...
13:34 -!- kasc [kasc@dsl-213-023-198-143.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:35 < blindy> well, my employer pays the rent up to around 400-450 EUR per month
13:38 < valentin> read the anouncements and just go sightseeing and decide for yourself if you feel well.
13:39 < blindy> gotta do so once I'm back in Berlin
13:39 < blindy> I'm currently in IN because there was a company-party in munich yesterday
13:39 -!- kasc [kasc@dsl-213-023-192-128.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
13:43 < rxr> 2495 builds total, 2190 completed fine, 262 with errors.
13:45 < daja77> that many?
13:46 < daja77> gnome or sth else?
13:54 < rxr> trunk ...
13:54 < rxr> cliffords mess + gcc34
13:54 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux-consulting.de/service/regtest/reference-21/2004-07-03/
13:55 < rxr> cu later
13:56 < Lorini> moin
13:57 < rxr> moin Lorini 
13:58 < daja77> ah the generic packages
14:24 -!- nzg [~tschmidt@dialin-145-254-133-125.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:24 < nzg> moin
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17:12 < rxr> hm - trunk is completely broken now ...
17:12 < rxr> I have not the motifvation to fix this - clifford can fix this stuff alone if he like pissing people so much ...
17:16 < netrunne1> rxr: what is about trunk?
17:19 < rxr> 2495 builds total, 9 completed fine, 40 with errors.
17:19 < rxr> I stopped it after that ...
17:20 < netrunne1> rxr: isn't this usually related to just one failed build in the early stages?
17:20 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
17:20 < rxr> linux* is fucked up ...
17:20 < rxr> but master cilfford only applies 100% tested patches ....
17:21 < netrunner> well, he applies those that don't fail in a full build afaik
17:21 < rxr> yeah - they fail pretty early here ...
17:21 < netrunner> you build for ppc?
17:22 < netrunner> maybe it's because he builds for x86
17:22 < rxr> yeah - me too
17:22 < rxr> at least on this regression tester ...
17:23 < netrunner> I'll try to upgrade to latest trunk and see If I can reproduce this.
17:23 < rxr> that he did not even consider porting the linux*-benh packages is already documented on the ml
17:24 < netrunner> rxr: but now you see the problem with changes that go direct to svn instead through a place where people can review them.
17:24 -!- nookie_ [~nookie@M358P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #rocklinux
17:25 < netrunner> it would have been obvious to you when you had a chance to read the patch before it got applied.
17:26 < rxr> netrunner: no - I see the problem that clifford does not get the community effor and pisses about people investing a lot of time in ROCK and not doing anything different 
17:27 < rxr> the patch listed s.th. like first try or work-in-progress or so, I did not imagine it foes in trunk anytime soon
17:28 < rxr> and when he does random rant he can not expect me to fix his stuff - I fix mine at least myself ...
17:28 < rxr> this never could have compiled on his box
17:29 < rxr> glibc has hardcoded usr/src/linux as header location - he now installs the source packages only at stage 5 and up
17:29 < rxr> this could never by any change survive any stage > 0 build
17:29 < netrunner> hm, I think I better don't sm sync ;)
17:30 < rxr> so - I locally changed the imperect anyway hardcoding to usr/include/linux - let's see how far this goes ...
17:30 < rxr> maybe 1-glibc23 builds now ... ;-)
17:30 < netrunner> there are things that should have gotten into trunk by long now, e.g. xorg and gcc34. imho.
17:31 < netrunner> rxr: btw, I updated your linux-drm to a cvs checkout of yesterday here. Will be tested in my next full build.
17:32 < rxr> gcc34 breaks to much for clifford measures
17:34 < netrunner> it really does. today I wanted to compile ripperX and failed. had no time to fix as we got visitors. but I think it is the way to go anyway. and tests show it produces faster binaries...
17:35 < rxr> this this submaster fluff quite few people will help fixing the last toy packages ...
17:38 < esden> hi ho everyone
17:38 < Freak> hi esden, all
17:39 < hannes_> hi
17:39 < hannes_> hi esden 
17:39 < esden> netrunner: now I also have the px 100 headphones ;)
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17:42 < rxr> netrunner: trunk should work now again ...
17:42 < mnemoc> moin!
17:43 < rxr> moin mnemoc 
17:43 < rxr> mnemoc: had a good sleep?
17:43 < mnemoc> 10 hours :p 
17:44 < mnemoc> i can't remeber the last time a slept more than 6...
17:45 < rxr> ;-)
17:45 < mnemoc> now i have a headache you can envy
17:46 < rxr> :-(
17:48 < mnemoc> rxr: what do you do to merge stuff from trunk? ... everyday is harder to do by hand
17:49 < rxr> mnemoc: do you mean how I manage to be able to do that?
17:49 < mnemoc> yes
17:50 < rxr> I'm a novice coder that can neither read configure scripts nor C source
17:50 < rxr> to be honest I can not do that
17:50 < rxr> ;-)
17:51 < rxr> well - to be faithfull I have written a merger utility - that lists possible changesets and saves the applied and rejected ones
17:51 < mnemoc> oh
17:51 < mnemoc> it's on submaster repo?
17:51 < mnemoc> tree, whatever
17:52 < rxr> so I just do ./merger.sh and continue grabbing changesets or blacklist them
17:52 < rxr> you might need it, too? ;-)
17:52 < mnemoc> hell yeah
17:52 < rxr> I already tought about creating a svn-tools repository I would put it into it ...
17:53 -!- _Lewellyn [rollicki@c-24-4-235-168.client.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:53 < rxr> to give it to other people I woudl cleanup some stuff first ...
17:54 < rxr> mnemoc: I hope you got that the noivice coder thing was not serious ...
17:54 < mnemoc> i know you
17:54 < rxr> can you wait a few days for a bit polished merger.sh - or do you wanna get the bare versoin now?
17:55 < mnemoc> i can wait =)
17:55 < rxr> ok - remember me on that
17:55 < mnemoc> monday?
17:55 < rxr> I clean it up a bit in the next days - I also need to do a performance improvement ...
17:55 < rxr> yes - I think I could do it until monday ...
17:56 < mnemoc> :] .oO( i was asking if monday is a good day to remind it to you )o
17:57 < rxr> remeber me on monday to setup the svn repository for it and to release it ;-)
17:57 < mnemoc> good
17:58 < rxr> ALSA is getting on my nerves - for some freaky reason only playback works on my iBook
17:58  * rxr wonders why the snd-powermac driver is the one I need to work on most before I could use it ...
17:59 < rxr> does noone else use the iBook for capturing taks ?!?! *headshare*
17:59 < rxr> at least a reason to get mentioned in kernel source files ...
17:59 < mnemoc> OT: can i pass X through a chain of ssh-s?
18:00 < rxr> mnemoc: I think this should work - but I never tried so far
18:00 < Freak> rxr: what do you mean, did you have record-ability in the past??
18:00 < rxr> Freak: no - I wanted to use it the first time some days ago ...
18:00 < Freak> well
18:01 < rxr> OSS works - even OSS emulation with ALSA - but not ALSA directly ...
18:01 < Freak> when I asked takashi last year at linuxtag, there was no recording-capabilities in the driver.
18:01 < Freak> he did some voodoo with the source tho, then it worked but it was a veeeeeeeery low level so you could almost hear nothing that had been recorded.
18:01 < rxr> there is - it even works with OSS emulation - but not thru the ALSA native interface
18:01 < Freak> and afaik there has been no considerable update for the driver since then.
18:02 < Freak> really?!
18:02 < Freak> since when?
18:02 < rxr> sure there have been many updates ...
18:02 < Freak> gee I want that then :)
18:02 < rxr> some weeks/months ago
18:02 < Freak> cool
18:02 < rxr> but native ALSA catpure does not work yet
18:02 < Freak> would you notify me if you got it working?
18:02 < rxr> and the driver has some isssues after suspend
18:02 < Freak> uh ok
18:02 < Freak> my PB doesn't do suspend anyways :
18:02 < Freak> )
18:03 < rxr> I already have a fix for the suspend issues including automatic DRC switching
18:03 < Freak> for the _power_book? I don't think so
18:03 < rxr> I also send them to alsa-devel but I was subscribed with my old address so they never arrived
18:03 < Freak> duh.
18:03 < rxr> no - for the generic snd-powermac spspend issues
18:03 < Freak> ic
18:04 < rxr> I'm currently filling my free time slots to research the capture issue ...
18:04 < Freak> sweet.
18:04 < rxr> btw, what are the suspend issues with your powerbook?
18:04 < Freak> it doesnt turn off the screen, simple as that :)
18:04 < Freak> well it actually does on framebuffer tho.
18:05 < rxr> so you only but it into suspend to RAM when swiched to a console?
18:05 < Freak> well no, I actually don't do suspend because.. I'm lame.
18:06 < Freak> but the screen light won't switch off when not on console, right.
18:07 < rxr> btw, the analog output of the IBook is really excellent - much better then average PC cards ...
18:08 < Freak> hmm I don't know, how would you measure that?
18:08 < Freak> btw yes I do think it has a nice sound quality when I link it to my hifi
18:08 < Freak> but I do that with my regular desktop as well and don't feel it would make a difference.
18:13 < rxr> with good equipment you can meassure this
18:13 < Freak> ic
18:13 < rxr> signal to noise ration - frequency spectrum and so on ..
18:14 < rxr> but since I play guitar and bass and am a bit in music producing I already have some training in hearing artifacts and freqency balances and so on ...
18:14 < blindy> hi hi and rehi
18:14 < rxr> we also have a Midiman Delta 1010 (10 channel 24bit/96kHz) external rack card here ...
18:15 < rxr> (of course fully ALSA supported) ... ;-)
18:15 < esden> hi ho blindy 
18:16 < rxr> the iBook has definetely a much betteer line/headphone out than the usual <100EUR PC cards, quite linear freqhancy balance and a very good signal to onise ration
18:16 < blindy> hi esden 
18:16 < esden> rxr: another argument to buy an ibook ... thanks ;)
18:16 < rxr> this is an especially highlight for notebooks - my last one was awfull, neither linear and really really noisy ...
18:17 < Freak> :)
18:17 < rxr> esden: be aware: the new G4 ones do not support suspend to RAM yet (with Linux) and the Airport Extemes do not work under Linux (due to Broadcom chip)
18:17 < Freak> I personally think that especially the onboard speakers are excellent for a notebook
18:17 < rxr> esden: do not expect wonders from the CPU
18:18 < Freak> (my pb, not sure about the ibook)
18:18 < Freak> exactly my problem
18:18 < blindy> rxr: AFAIR broadcom works fine with ndiswrapper
18:18 < rxr> my iBook ones are ok - the c't also just mentioned they are good - but I do not use them very often ... - I nearly always have an amplifier on it ...
18:18 < rxr> blindy: yeah - and how to run ndiswrapper on PowerPC  ?!?!?
18:19 < rxr> blindy: you would need a MACH/Darwin wrapper for the MacOSX binaries ...
18:19 < esden> rxr: hmm ... I will probably run mac os x on it anyway ... so ... and when some day that stuff is supported by linux I can install it then ;)
18:19 < blindy> no idea, no PowerPC here
18:19 < esden> and not the cpu is a criteria but the weight and runtime
18:20 < esden> and the amount of administrative time I have to invest in it
18:20 < rxr> sure - this is why I have one, I just wanted to mention it - so you can not complain ... ;-)
18:20 < esden> and that one should be minimal
18:20 < esden> rxr: hehe ... thanks ;)
18:20 < rxr> esden: quite strange to hear the first time you wanna use s.th. different then Linux ... from you
18:20 < rxr> esden: the performance is ok - but not Athlon and not Pentium-M ....
18:20 < esden> wooooow I am dying ... that headphones are awarsome!
18:21 < esden> rxr: hmm ... times change ... 
18:21 < rxr> not G5 even
18:21 < esden> g5 is eating too much power
18:21 < esden> and is too hot for laptops
18:21 < rxr> not in some months a year ;-) then you get PowerBooks with G5fx ...
18:22 < esden> in the x86 world that is not an argument to not put a desktop cpu in a laptop
18:22 < esden> no wonder that people are burning their limbs with them ;)
18:22 < rxr> well the Pentium-M centrino thing is really fast and draws quite less power
18:23 < esden> I only want to point to that one nice history of a guy that had a dell laptop and burned his penis with it ;)
18:23 < mnemoc> LOL
18:23 < esden> and my laptop that I currently have is also too hot to work on it having it on my lap
18:24 < esden> I nearly burned my legs with it some time ago trying to do just that >_<
18:24 < esden> rxr: ok ... you may be right with pentium-m
18:24 < esden> netrunner: could say more about that he has a pretty new pentium-m centrino laptop
18:24 < mnemoc> there are things to put between your laptop and your lap with ventilators and stuff...
18:24 < esden> mnemoc: ack ;)
18:25 < esden> mnemoc: I think that it is pretty ill ... don't you think?
18:25 < esden> laptop should be silent, cool and run long on battery .... the performance is on the second place ...
18:26 < blindy> well, even pentium-m centrinos get too hot after 5-6 hours
18:26 < esden> it should also have an acceptable display resolution ... but for that I would have to buy a powerbook ... or so
18:26 < esden> blindy: tested?
18:26 < mnemoc> designers seem to see laptops as portable desktop computers.... they still put ventilators on the bottom
18:26 < esden> mnemoc: that is the difference at apple ... I think that guys understood what a laptop is ;)
18:27 < blindy> blindy: aborted before I burnt something
18:27 < esden> blindy: ROFL
18:27 -!- pla^net [~sack@dynadsl-080-228-93-239.ewetel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:30 < esden> ok ... I should continue reading the ACE related papers
18:30 < rxr> there are also good x86 laptops you can select ...
18:31 < rxr> the recent Apple iBooks really annoy me:
18:31 < esden> and that would be?
18:31 < esden> rxr: why?
18:31 < rxr> - the ripped away the aluminium display holder (with a cheap fragile plastic one) (good that I still have an old one with aluminuium)
18:32 < rxr> - the new keyboards and cases are uglier and uglier with earch revision, first they moved from transparent plastic to white one for the case, then to even cheaper white one, and now even the keyboard is not nicely transparent but a very cheap PC grey one .. :-(
18:33 < rxr> - they constatnyl change hardware details, so that suspend to RAM (formerly a disciplin where Linux was excelent on iBooks) does not work anymore with the G4 ones
18:34 < mnemoc> rxr: do you think you can compare those 'problems' with design failures of x86 ones?
18:34 < rxr> - and the overall quality also varies - I know noone not having a least one place where the case has some odd buckle
18:34 < rxr> + they use a softmodem for some time now (muahhaha) and they chose a wlan chip not supported by linux :-(
18:35 < mnemoc> not supported _yet_
18:35 < rxr> yeah - but there are more friendly w-lan chip companies ...
18:35 < esden> rxr: in intel laptops that is also a 99% case
18:35 < esden> with softmodems
18:35 < rxr> yes - but they had no reason to rip out the real modem in the previous ones ...
18:35 < esden> and the quality is in most intel laptops much lower then in apple ... 
18:36 < rxr> except to save 3cents ...
18:36 < esden> I am happy to use an IBM Thinkpad currently
18:36 < esden> that one is well done
18:36 < netrunner> rxr: thx for fixing trunk :)
18:36 < rxr> esden: I'm unsure - if you choose one carefully you get good quality
18:36 < esden> but ... suspend to ram works barely ... and will probably never work correctly
18:37 < esden> and it has a cost of far beyond 2000EUR
18:37 < netrunner> esden: I am totally satisfied with the x40. linux26 full recompile in 45 minutes, does not drain more battery then expected (std battery lasts 3h, I have the additional, lasts 7h)
18:37 < rxr> esden: in the past I also thought Apple hardware has magic quality - but seeing some buckles in the plastic at nearly every iBook around I wonder what they do over in the US ...
18:37 < netrunner> esden: I found reasons not to buy an ibook. the current wlan cards don't run under linux, the performance is not good due to the risc...
18:37 < esden> when I pay so much I require that kind of quality 
18:38 < esden> netrunner: humm ... ok ... 
18:38 < rxr> netrunner: due to RISC - you are joking
18:38 < rxr> netrunner: RISC has good performance
18:38 < netrunner> rxr: everything I read was that ibooks don't perform when it comes to compile stuff.
18:38 < rxr> netrunner: the iBook performance is not that good because it is an older PowrePC CPU - basically from '98 or so
18:38 < esden> on the other hand I like mac os x ... I used it for quite a time in Volker's office ... and it was very nice
18:39 < esden> and when I see daniel and tobi I really see the low administrative footage
18:39 < rxr> netrunner: it only has 1 integer and 1 fpu unit + loas/store branching stuff ...
18:39 < netrunner> rxr: I even heard that from a guy with a powerbook from this year#
18:39 < netrunner> esden: well, tobi told me compiling was slow there.
18:39 < esden> and sadly on intel there is no mac os x ... 
18:39 < rxr> you can see the G5 RISC perfomring quite well. any why? because like x86 ones it has more then 1 int and fpu unit ...
18:39 < esden> netrunner: humm ... ok ... that is an argument
18:40 < rxr> netrunner: compiling? Sure RISC compiling is always slower ...
18:40 < esden> I do a _LOT_ compiling
18:40 < esden> and c++ that takes even more then c ...
18:40 < netrunner> rxr: that's my point
18:40 < rxr> netrunner: more registers to color (alocate) perfect (== higher runtime performance) and more instructions to scheudule
18:41 < rxr> esden: C++ has no additional overhead - the high level thing is the same for PowerPC and x86 - only the code generation is slower ...
18:41 < esden> but I really ask me what is the performance difference between an x40 IBM and a current iBook 12" ... 
18:41 < esden> rxr: ahh ok good to know
18:41  * netrunner could run some benchmark if you are interested.
18:41 < rxr> esden: if you want to have something faster grab an PowerBook
18:41 < rxr> comparing the low-end iBooks with Pentium-M is unfair
18:41 < esden> rxr: humm ... but the price is comparable ... ...
18:42 < rxr> the Pentium-M has more int/fpu units - the ibook as only one for each
18:42 < esden> or is it not
18:42 < rxr> the G4 in the PowerBook also has more - I do not remeber how many
18:42  * netrunner booting his p4m to do the new build for his x40
18:42 < esden> netrunner: how much have you payed for the x40?
18:42 < rxr> I think s.th. like 2 1/2 integer units and 1 fpu one or so
18:42 < netrunner> esden: about 2keur (incl add battery)
18:42 < esden> netrunner: humm ... ok
18:42 < rxr> + the vectur unit ...
18:42 < netrunner> esden: nofost price is 1895
18:43 < esden> then I search the comparable powerbook ... and see further
18:43 < esden> but now I have to go get blindy 
18:43 < esden> be back in a moment ...
18:43 < rxr> but I can asure you the G3 is ok for compiling where it is annoying is sceientific number crunching and such ...
18:45 -!- pla^net [~sack@dynadsl-080-228-93-239.ewetel.net] has joined #rocklinux
18:46 < rxr> hi pla^net 
18:47 < mnemoc> are thinkpad's mouse-replacement really usable?
18:47 -!- pla^net [~sack@dynadsl-080-228-93-239.ewetel.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:47 < mnemoc> .oO( how is it called? )o
18:49 < rxr> mnemoc:  this pin ?
18:49 < rxr> track point ot how it is named?
18:50 < mnemoc> yes, that little thing
18:54 < netrunner> mnemoc: I like it more than touchpads.
18:54 < mnemoc> is it too hard to get used to it?
18:55 < netrunner> mnemoc: problem with touchpads is always when I type 10fingered, I accidently touch the pad and my cursor jumps to another place in my text.
18:55 < netrunner> nope. it's easy. 
18:58 < mnemoc> goood
19:07 < rxr> netrunner: you can disable taping ...
19:08 < rxr> but I agree, the trackpoint allow smaller devices and I also thing the handling it is the same ... not like a mouse but usable ...
19:08 < rxr> cu later
19:08  * rxr off
19:08 < mnemoc> cur xtr
19:09 < rxr> hm - binutils fail in trunk - that is bad
19:10 < rxr> ouh - I think because 1-util-linux fails due ot gcc34 strictness ...
19:10 < rxr> ok - cu later
19:24 < esden> re
19:36 < blindy> re
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20:36 < rxr> rehi
20:41 < blindy> wb
20:44 -!- bluefire [bluefire@pD9E1C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20:45 -!- Lorini [~Andrea@stdw-wh-vip63.studentenwerk-bielefeld.de] has left #rocklinux ["Es gibt keine Antwort. Es gab nie eine Antwort. Es wird nie eine Antwort geben. Das ist die Antwort."]
20:46 -!- blindy [~blindcode@pD9E4FBF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["You're breaking my heart, tears in my eyes. Nothing but pain and nothing but lies."]
20:46 -!- blindcoder [~blindcode@pD9E4FBF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
20:47 -!- blindcoder is now known as blindy
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21:11 < netrunner> do we have a tool to format with vfat?
21:18 -!- tfing [~tfing@APoitiers-103-1-3-145.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
21:18 -!- tfing_ is now known as tfing
21:27 < rxr> netrunner: yes
21:28 < rxr> mkdosfs in base
21:28 < rxr> oh - vfat, hm - maybe it does not do vfat ..
21:28  * rxr shortly away
21:29 < daja77> mkfs.msdos -F 32
21:31 < esden> ok ... for the price of x40 with additional battery I get the powerbook 12" in the minimal configuration
21:31 < esden> interesting
21:32 < blindy> ok, Cocktail Bar is now finally licensed under the GPL and available for public use: http://www.crash-override.net/Cocktail_Bar/index.php
21:33 < esden> mnemoc: the nipple how I call it in thinkpad is very usable ... I like it ... in the beginning it was strange ... but now I do not even realize that I am using it ... only for gaming it is not so good ... but the same applyies to the touchpad
21:33 < daja77> for which palmos version you are programming for?
21:34 < blindy> daja77: works with 3.5 and newer
21:35 < daja77> ic
21:35 < blindy> I've successfully used it on a Palm III
21:37 < daja77> <- got palmos 3.1 ..
21:39 < esden> rofl ... the registration name of blindy's coctail bar at palm os is cock ... my god
21:39 < esden> blindy: think the next time ;)
21:39 < esden> that is normally not good to think ... but sometimes it helps ;)
21:39 < daja77> lol
21:40 < blindy> :)
21:40 < blindy> daja77: please try it out
21:40  * daja77 rolling on the floor
21:40 < esden> daja77: you are only loughing .... how predictable are you ;)
21:40 < blindy> remember: it's GPL, so I'm not responsible for anything :)
21:40 < daja77> esden: what else do you expect
21:40 < esden> daja77: nothing ... really nothing
21:40 < esden> sorry
21:41  * esden is also loughing ... not out loud anymore ... but still loughing ...
21:41 < daja77> blindy: when I find my palm and putting new batteries in it, then yes
21:41 < esden> in my mind ... also rolling on the flor
21:41 < esden> my mind is loughing and rolling on the floor
21:41 < daja77> i could try to appear in your dreams later
21:41 < esden> daja77: ohh please do that ... then I can do what I want with you
21:41 < daja77> O_o
21:42 < esden> you know that in your dreams you are the god that sets the rules ;)
21:43 < daja77> set esden=false
21:43 < esden> o_O
21:49  * blindy gone
21:49 < daja77> rxr: ?
21:52 < mnemoc> esden: nipple :)
21:55 < rxr> rehi
21:55 < daja77> re rxr
21:57 < rxr> you wanted to ask s.th.?
21:57 < daja77> yep about libsigc++
21:57 < rxr> ouhm - I have not yet review the latest one deeply
21:57 < mnemoc> hi daja77, rxr
21:58 < rxr> valentin should be deeper in it at the moment ...
21:58 < rxr> but just ask ...
21:58 < daja77> i am just wondering I found this in glibmm err file
21:58 < daja77> !> checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
21:58 < daja77> !> checking for sigc++-2.0 >= 2.0.0 glib-2.0 >= 2.4.0 gobje .
21:59 < daja77> but there is no libsigc++2.0 in rock as far i can see
22:00 < rxr> in 2.1 there is ...
22:00 < daja77> ah ok then I have to merge that too
22:00 < rxr> I did not wanted to put it into 2.0 due to distribution ABI changes ...
22:00 < rxr> daja77: I updated the libsigc++ packge - you do not want this in 2.0 ...
22:00 < rxr> in 2.1 we have 2 additional old style packages ...
22:01 < daja77> I would not mind, if I still had the gnome2.4 packages :/
22:01 < rxr> if you want it in 2.0 in your local tree merge is as additional package
22:01 < daja77> that would be no problem
22:01 < daja77> I guess/hope
22:01 < rxr> no - I just wanted to notice that replacing the libsgic++ one with the new version is not a good idea ...
22:02 < daja77> additional package will be fine
22:02 < rxr> for you - I rather would like to avoid this in the 2.0-stable branch
22:02 < daja77> yep for me
22:03 < daja77> I will have to maitain these installations anyway
22:03  * rxr thought you wanted to ask real C++ usage questions ...
22:03 < daja77> no not atm
22:04 < daja77> just trying to get 2.0.2 iso to upgrade some boxes
22:04 < rxr> do not forget to call it 2.0.2-daja+gnome26 since it really is not a vanilla 2.0 but a major mix ... ;-) if you upload it somewhere
22:05 < daja77> hehe ok, sorry just had to do that
22:05 < _NULL_> hi
22:06 < mnemoc> hi owl
22:10 < daja77> is there a way to put sth like release notes, or just notes on the isos, i could explain some changes i made
22:13 < _NULL_> hi mnemoc 
22:13 < _NULL_> did you sleep yesterday?
22:14 < mnemoc> yes! 10 looong hours
22:15 < daja77> == 22:18:25 =[5]=> Building daja77/libsigc++2 [2.0.1 2.0.2].
22:43 < mnemoc> usernames with dot are valid?
22:44 < mnemoc> mmm... looks discusting
22:44 < daja77> huh?
22:44 < mnemoc> drwxr-xr-x    2 Vgeeks.cl users          48 2004-07-03 16:42 users
22:45 < daja77> oh
22:45 < mnemoc> i'm trying to standarize my virtual stuff
23:02 < _NULL_> mnemoc: hehe. slept well? ;)
23:02 < mnemoc> i woke up with a headache you can envy
23:02 < _NULL_> shit :(
23:09  * daja77 fears to upgrde to trunk after 2.0.2 is finished
23:10 < _NULL_> daja77: why?
23:11 < daja77> it is much incompatible with my submaster repo atm
23:11 < mnemoc> daja77: upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1 will not be nice
23:11 -!- bluefire [bluefire@pD9E1C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"]
23:11 < daja77> think I'll create a new one
23:11 -!- bluefire [bluefire@pD9E1C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
23:11 < daja77> mnemoc: well I quite like some of the 2.1 changes
23:12 < mnemoc> i have a tree based on 2.0 with stuff from me and some of the 2.1 changes
23:12 < _NULL_> O_o aeh? hoeh?  forking rock ... or what?
23:12 < daja77> _NULL_: nope
23:13 < mnemoc> nope... keeping maintainability of my machines
23:13 < _NULL_> daja77: but...?
23:13 < daja77> but what?
23:13 < mnemoc> _NULL_: branch != fork
23:13 < _NULL_> ah so... 
23:14 < daja77> some of us had trees of their own even before rock 2.0
23:15 < _NULL_> hmm. yeah.  but they weremerged into roc, again, weren't they?
23:15 < _NULL_> oh goth... please ignore my typos. 
23:16 < daja77> when it makes sense then yes
23:16 < mnemoc> _NULL_: a fork start from some point of some project and continue alone
23:16 < _NULL_> k. 
23:17 < mnemoc> a branch keep synced with the trunk
23:17 < _NULL_> yeah. i thought  daja77 will start one ;)
23:17 < daja77> lol no
23:17 < _NULL_> what a pity. ;;p
23:17 < daja77> i just have gnome 2.6 in 2.0 to avoid additional downloads 
23:17 < mnemoc> ehm
23:17 < daja77> _NULL_: why?
23:18 < _NULL_> daja77: you could "work" with erebos, then ;)
23:19 < daja77> you released sth?
23:20 < _NULL_> nope. not yet. it's just on my mind (and a bit on my HD of ancoras) . but i'm not working hard on it. having no time caused y   training for the drivers licence && having not often motivation && concentration  because of the depressions
23:20 < daja77> what should it be then, a rock 2.0 tree of your own?
23:22 < _NULL_> it will be a fork of rock, but with changes (in the scripts && in the package-stuff, too)
23:22 < daja77> a fork, so you will keep > 1000 packages in sync alone?
23:24 < _NULL_> e.g. the system will be based on linux-2.6.7 and latest gcc, and a complete redesign of package/base and stuff... (will only contain the absolutely needed packages)... and this will be erebos. i don't want a fat kde, gnome and stuff in erebos. just a system i can configure by my own - manually
23:24 < _NULL_> daja77: nah. see 23:24
23:24 < mnemoc> [17:24:22] <_NULL_> daja77: nah. see 23:24
23:24  * daja77 kicks mnemoc 
23:25 < mnemoc> i was should the time :\
23:25 < daja77> so creating a package selection would do the trick, what else needs to be done for that "fork"?
23:27 < _NULL_> iyeah... it would... but it would be not a clean solution imho. cuz the other packages - the unneeded. would be already there. and i need many things from scripts not... and so on. 
23:27 < daja77> package selection template, that is
23:27 < daja77> creating package selection template and stripping the src ...
23:27 < daja77> why the hell I should use that?
23:28 < daja77> my granny needs kde on her box, should i remerge things from rock to get it running on erebos?
23:28 < daja77> and will you add an openbox package again?
23:30 < _NULL_> daja77: i will add nothing, but , but importants tuff... no X. no blown up packages
23:31 < daja77> a bigger rescue disc then ...
23:32 < _NULL_> yeah. you  could call it rescue disc, or how you want... but thats what i want. 
23:32 < daja77> fine then
23:35 < mnemoc> _NULL_: rock doesn't fit everyone's dreams but it is closer than what you can get alone. it's easier to improve ROCK to get even closer
23:36 < daja77> mnemoc: full ack
23:36 < daja77> that's why I joined
23:36 < mnemoc> me too
23:36 < daja77> ;)
23:38 < _NULL_> hmm. 
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23:56 < daja77> aaaaargh this gnome stuff gives me the creeps
23:57 < daja77> gtkmm just build fine, why can't the other packags detect it
--- Log closed Sun Jul 04 00:00:07 2004