--- Log opened Wed Jul 28 00:00:12 2004
00:00 < owl> madtux: nope. MDK = medizinischer dienst der krankenkassen or something like that
00:00 < madtux> ah..
00:01 < madtux> for one moment u made me think that u were applying for a job at mandrake "linux"
00:02 < owl> *rofl* nope.  my contract will be for one year remainging
00:02 < madtux> phew..
00:03 < owl> hm?
00:03 < madtux> i would preffer to hear you say that u will become a MSCE than hearing you applied for a job at mdk..
00:03 < lewellyn> bah. still failing at the same place on gcc3
00:03 < lewellyn> i will look more after lunch
00:04 < owl> hahahahahaha. nah. no MSCE, no mandrake ;)
00:08 < SerWou> bye bye guys
00:08 < SerWou> Gonna sleep
00:08 < SerWou> Catch you late
00:08 < SerWou> r
00:08 < owl> gn8 SerWou 
00:09 < madtux> owl: good.
00:10 < madtux> so we will be friends forever then :)
00:10  * daja77 makes a note install mdk on madtux' laptop on c3
00:10 < fake> hm
00:10 < fake> interesing
00:10 < owl> lol :) 
00:11 < madtux> daja77: and u actually think i will step away from my box?
00:11 < fake> rock is not setting $CPP 
00:11 < fake> but cpp is using builtin defines...
00:11 < daja77> madtux: sure you need someone who is installing that box properly :p
00:12  * daja77 evilly could use yoper instead
00:19 < madtux> interesting... daja77 how did u know all this crappy distro names?
00:19 < madtux> do u actually keep isos of each one of them?
00:19 < daja77> i am reading too much
00:19 < madtux> yeah yeahh
00:19 < daja77> no
00:19 < madtux> :P
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01:08 < lewellyn> ok. can anyone help me get gcc3 to compile?
01:09 < lewellyn> scripts/Config seems to REALLY want it to have stack smashing protection enabled.
01:09 < lewellyn> changing the value by hand does not help, as it still fails on that same part.
01:10 < lewellyn> is it possibly hardcoded someplace?
01:15 < fake> lewellyn: something's wrong.
01:15 < lewellyn> fake: that's what i feared.
01:15 < fake> lewellyn: what happens if you select gcc32 ?
01:16 < fake> .oO( don't use gcc33. use 32, or 34 if you are brave)
01:16 < lewellyn> btw, should this be 2.0.3 that i'm making?
01:16 < lewellyn> i was aiming at 2.0.2
01:16 < fake> lewellyn: did you use svn to grab your tree?
01:16 < lewellyn> no
01:17 < lewellyn> i used the scripts/Update-src script
01:17 < lewellyn> and where do i select gcc32?
01:17 < fake> aaw.
01:17 < fake> no pkgforking...
01:17 < fake> sorry, about the 2.0 tree you'll have to talk to rxr
01:18 < fake> it's his baby
01:18  * lewellyn pokes rxr
01:18 < lewellyn> you about?
01:19 < lewellyn> fake: would you recommend 2.1 for a production box?
01:29 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.249.192.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #rocklinux
01:29 -!- Topic for #rocklinux: ROCK Linux 2.0.2 released! http://www.rocklinux.org/rock20.html
01:29 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Mon Jun 28 12:17:40 2004]
01:29 [Users #rocklinux]
01:29 [ [anders]] [ fake   ] [ lewellyn] [ netrunner] [ rxr_  ] [ true     ] 
01:29 [ blindy  ] [ Freak  ] [ lowks   ] [ owl      ] [ SerWou] [ valentin ] 
01:29 [ daja77  ] [ hannes_] [ luckz   ] [ pla^net  ] [ SMP   ] [ valentin_] 
01:29 [ dsoul   ] [ jsaw   ] [ mistik1 ] [ rolla    ] [ th    ] [ zzoc     ] 
01:29 [ esden   ] [ kasc   ] [ mnemoc  ] [ rxr      ] [ togg  ] 
01:29 -!- Irssi: #rocklinux: Total of 29 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 29 normal]
01:29 -!- Channel #rocklinux created Mon Aug  4 00:11:35 2003
01:29 -!- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
01:29 < lewellyn> i'm using the "cdrom" controller right now.
01:29 -!- Irssi: Join to #rocklinux was synced in 11 secs
01:30 < fake> 2.4 kernel headers in /usr/include don't imply you must use 2.4 kernels...
01:30 -!- math [1000@adsl-192-70.38-151.net24.it] has joined #rocklinux
01:30 < lewellyn> i suppose not.
01:31 < lewellyn> ok. so, since i am giving up on this for now, how do i build 2.1? change that 2.0 line to 2.1 in Update-Src?
01:32 < fake> the current 2.6.7 kernel headers break iptables compile - a package you'll need ;)
01:32 < fake> no.
01:32 < fake> you will need subversion to get a current HEAD checkout
01:33 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.220.115.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
01:34 < fake> and you may need to apply some patches from submaster - namely to fix jfsutils and xfsutils and ntfsprogs
01:34 < fake> (in case you need them)
01:35 < lewellyn> i suppose i am using jfs :/
01:36 -!- valentin [~valentin@p213.54.220.115.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
01:36 -!- valentin_ is now known as valentin
01:36 < lewellyn> and you said i can use the 2.4 headers, right?
01:36 < lewellyn> rather than the borked 2.6.7 headers?
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01:38 -!- You're now known as rxr
01:43 < lewellyn> ok. this Update-Src seems to have given me something borked. :/
01:43 < lewellyn> how can i make sure that it grabbed 2.0.2 for me?
01:44 < rxr> use svn directoy
01:44 < rxr> tags are in http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/rock-linux/tags ...
01:44 -!- pla^net [~sack@p5483B160.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["peace yallz ;o)"]
01:45 < lewellyn> mmkay. who was it that told me to use scripts/Update-Src earlier then?
01:45 < lewellyn> rxr: where should i execute that?
01:49 < fake> lewellyn: i did. because i supposed you wanted to update your running system with Update-System, which calls Update-Src.
01:49 < lewellyn> fake: hrm. i am lost and can't backscroll that far back (since that client crashed; damned win32)
01:50 < lewellyn> i was only following instructions
01:50 < lewellyn> but i run svn TAG in rock-src?
01:51 < owl> gn8
01:53 < lewellyn> sleep well, owl 
01:53 < fake> lewellyn: you can run it in another directory, not sure if svn can be used on half-ready exports without .svn directories...
01:53 < fake> n8 owl
01:54 < lewellyn> fake: just making sure i'm doing the right things here. i seem to have gotten incomplete and/or misleading information earlier.
01:57 < lewellyn> hrm. what do i need to install to get svn?
01:58 < lewellyn> the only binary i see is in /opt/apache/bin
01:58 < lewellyn> or is that what i need
01:58 < lewellyn> ?
02:00 < lewellyn> also, should i run Cleanup -full first?
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02:07 < fake> lewellyn: svn in opt/apache/bin is right
02:08 < lewellyn> ok. making sure. again. don't wanna screw things up and lose everything :)
02:10 < lewellyn> and do i need Cleanup -full?
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02:12  * lewellyn hopes not and crosses fingers
02:12 < lewellyn> /opt/apache/bin/svn: error while loading shared libraries: libaprutil-0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
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02:12 < lewellyn> i am getting the distinct feeling that i am screwed here. :/
02:13 -!- blindcoder [~blindcode@pD958F9DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
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02:18 < rxr> lewellyn: apache is not installed I guess
02:19 < lewellyn> i figured that out.
02:19 < lewellyn> i was going to do a custom compilation.
02:19 < lewellyn> :)
02:19 < lewellyn> anyway.
02:19 < lewellyn> now, i go into the 2.0.2 directory and run scripts/Config?
02:20 < fake> lewellyn: read the handbook...
02:21 < rxr> yes
02:22 < lewellyn> fake: i don't see any pages in the handbook that have to deal with checking out via svn. page 60 says to use Update-Src
02:30 < fake> lewellyn: www.rocklinux.org/submaster.html
02:40 < lewellyn> fake: that looks like a lot of work for something that's going to be blown away in a day or so...
02:49 < rxr> lewellyn: yes - I also can not recommend sm ...
02:53 < lewellyn> rxr: i was just saying that it looked like a waste, since i will be reformatting upon reinstall
02:53 < lewellyn> btw, how come 2.0.2 doesn't support sendmail as default mta?
02:54 < lewellyn> just out of curiosity, as it doesn't affect me at all (i don't think)
02:54 < rxr> hm - I do not know of such a bug ...
02:54 < rxr> sendmail should be possible as default mta - if not using the desktop target ...
02:55 < lewellyn> ah. so i need a different target?
02:56 < lewellyn> how experimental is the server target?
02:56 < lewellyn> and what are the implications of it?
02:56 < rxr> lewellyn: not really used - just a desktop target with different package selection
02:56 < lewellyn> ok. it's flagged quite clearly as experimental.
02:56 < rxr> if you need sendmail as default mta and you know what you do you can disable the exim enforcing in the desktop target ...
02:57 < lewellyn> well, i don't NEED it
02:57 < lewellyn> just would make life easier for administration since i know sendmail, but not exim.
02:57 < lewellyn> plus all of our mail servers are sendmail and this would be the odd man out.
02:58 < lewellyn> (not that it will handle more than local mail, mind you...)
02:58 < rxr> just remove one line in target/desktop/config.in or so then ...
02:58 < rxr> hehe:
02:58 < rxr>  * This file implements a fish detector. It is used to see when a
02:58 < rxr>  * goldfish passes in front of the camera. It does this by counting
02:58 < rxr>  * the number of input pixels that fall within a particular HSV
02:58 < rxr>  * range.
02:59 < lewellyn> rxr: um. ok... :)
03:00 < fake> rxr: how about an rsync mirror for 2.1-DEV ?
03:01 < lewellyn> rxr: btw, the build chapter of the handbook could use some fleshing out. :( (i have 0.1.4 printed out in front of me)
03:01 < rxr> fake: what kind fo rsync mirror?
03:02 < rxr> AFAIK clifford's stuff mirror's HEAD ...
03:03 < fake> rxr: interesting...
03:05 < lewellyn> btw, what are the advantages/disadvantages to dietlibc?
03:48 < lewellyn> rxr: is the gcc3 stack smash handler known to be broken?
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04:10 < lewellyn> bah. i think it is time for me to throw in the towel. i am being totally inept at building rock :(
05:05 -!- daja77_ [[5ZIHzSk7f@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #rocklinux
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06:12 < lewellyn> bah. still can't get rock to build. i think i am really going to give up now :(
08:10 < netrunner> moin
08:10 < netrunner> lewellyn: what is the problem?
08:23 < blindy> moin
08:41 < netrunner> hi blindy
08:42  * netrunner waiting for someone with the nick deafy to join ;)
08:44 < blindy> :P
08:44 < netrunner> it's stupid. now I rebuilt ROCK with the correct optimization, and still most games segfault :/
08:45 < netrunner> I even already built all sdl stuff with -mmx only
08:45 < netrunner> any idea what could be wrong here?
08:45 < netrunner> (glxgears works now that I rebuilt xorg with -mmx only)
08:45 < blindy> daja77 did a lot of stuff with SDL segfaults IIRC
08:45 < netrunner> daja77_: WAKEUP!! 
08:45 < netrunner> :)
08:45 < blindy> btw, why are you compiling for MMX? You have AMD processors, don't you?
08:46 < netrunner> my laptop is pentium-m (centrino)
08:46 < netrunner> this is the one that makes me troubles. 
08:46 < blindy> I've compiled for Pentium3 on my centrino
08:46 < blindy> works like a charm
08:47 < netrunner> with gcc34?
08:47 < blindy> 33x
08:48 < netrunner> p3 is less than you can get, the pentium-m is like p3 with sse2. there's also a pentium4m ...
08:48 < netrunner> but it probably does not matter. I'll ask daja when he comes.
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09:25 < owl> *yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn*
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09:25 < owl> *opening one eye* morning
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09:37 < blindy> moin owl 
09:38 < owl> hi blindy 
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10:48  * daja77_ wakes up
10:49 < netrunner> hi daja77_ 
10:49 -!- daja77_ is now known as daja77
10:57 < owl> hi daja77 
10:57 < netrunner> daja77: how did you cure those SDL segfaults?
10:59 < daja77> i did?
10:59 < netrunner> daja77: at least you struggled with it.
11:01 < netrunner> arg, I forgot to sync my nwn savegames before reinstalling :/
11:02 < daja77> i only fixed compile errors ...
11:02 < netrunner> hm. I compiled sdl and xorg for -mmx only, and most games still give me sdl segfaults.
11:02 < daja77> if you used my first patch for this, maybe that causes trouble, but it is quite old
11:03 < netrunner> do you happen to know what the "parachute deployed" means? does it leave info somewhere?
11:03 < netrunner> daja77: I applied most stuff in submaster ;)
11:03 < daja77> i could play a bit later that day with it
11:03 < netrunner> daja77: I think you can discard your  ffmpeg thing, it compiles fine with the gcc34 patch.
11:03 < daja77> do you have a line in .conf which removes the -fPIC switch?
11:03 < daja77> yeah sure
11:04 < daja77> have to revisit all my rock stuff soon
11:04 < netrunner> daja77: which package's .conf?
11:05 < daja77> libsdl
11:05 < netrunner> no
11:05 < daja77> ok
11:06 < daja77> read this parachute stuff some time ago, perhaps you ask in sdl chan
11:08 < blindy> moin daja77 
11:08 < daja77> hi blindy 
11:18 < th> moin
11:19 < daja77> moin th
11:19  * netrunner refilling his user homepage http://andreas.anvame.net/ :)
11:19 < SMP> *yaaaawwwnnn*
11:19 < th> moin SMP 
11:19 < th> hi netrunner 
11:20 < th> .oO(anvame.net ... nice domain..)
11:20 < netrunner> *g*
11:21 < netrunner> I think I tested all picture galleries available on freshmeat :)
11:22 < th> netrunner: did you try php gallery?
11:22 < blindy> netrunner: I have one here, size: 6kB + ImageMagick, based on bash :)
11:22 < blindy> security of the gallery... ehm... nada :/
11:22 < netrunner> th: I use fsphpgallery now.
11:23 -!- Freak [freak@helena.bawue.de] has joined #rocklinux
11:23 < netrunner> I wanted no sql, and I had more dir levels than one.
11:24 < th> netrunner: gallery does not use mysql
11:24 < th> netrunner: and has more dir levels
11:24 < th> netrunner: and it's quite convenient
11:25 < daja77> hm there simple perl/bash scripts which create a gallery
11:26 < blindy> netrunner: ack
11:26 < blindy> netrunner: if you want, I can send you the scripts
11:26 < netrunner> daja77: yes, I had one too. (cthumb). but it was too annoying by the time :)
11:26 -!- De_Elsasser [~eric@ANancy-110-1-21-169.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #rocklinux
11:26 < netrunner> blindy: thanks, I have scripts. I wanted something where I don't have to run scripts all the time :)
11:26 < netrunner> aka just dump the dir and basta.
11:26 < blindy> netrunner: yes
11:27 < blindy> netrunner: I just dump the images into a directory, and the CGI-called scripts handle the rest
11:27 < netrunner> blindy: you can send it and I'll try it. 
11:34 < rxr> re
11:34 < blindy> moin rxr
11:34 < daja77> hi rxr 
11:35 < De_Elsasser> hi daja77
11:36 < daja77> hi De_Elsasser 
11:37 < De_Elsasser> how are you?
11:38 < owl> hiiiii De_Elsasserr
11:38 < daja77> De_Elsasser: quite goos atm thx, and you?
11:38 < De_Elsasser> ho, owl, how doo yoo doo?
11:38 < De_Elsasser> thx?
11:39 < owl> De_Elsasser: hm. not o well. thx. 
11:39 < De_Elsasser> I am fine
11:39 < daja77> great
11:41 < De_Elsasser> I have a second monitor now a I can you see when I work
11:58 < De_Elsasser> quol
12:11 < netrunner> wtf? !> configurator: cannot connect to X server
12:11 < netrunner> argl.
12:50 < netrunner> can anyone please tell me why my apache does not recognize .htaccess files any more?
12:50 < netrunner> This gave some kid access to my phpMyAdmin :/
13:00 < th> netrunner: do you have allowoverride set?
13:00 < th> netrunner: have a look at the error log
13:02 < rxr> netrunner: maybe your apache was first hacked to disable those ...
13:02 < th> is it possible to read and/or write a scsi disc with access to the generic device?
13:02 < rxr> sure
13:02 < th> cool
13:02 < rxr> if one implements the direct access protcol in userspace, ...
13:03 < netrunner> th: yes I have. I wondered already yesterday because the access to my private gallery was not restricted any more.
13:03 < th> rxr: so per default every user could edit the whole disc in rock-desktop
13:03 < netrunner> rxr: but the limit's in the httpd.conf still work, only .htaccess is not evaluated.
13:03 < rxr> the sg devices allow abritary custom packets do be send to the device
13:03 < th> # user/group and persmission for the cd and the corespondig generic device
13:03 < th> REGISTER ^(ide|scsi)/host[0-9]+/bus[0-9]+/target[0-9]+/lun[0-9]+/(cd|generic) PERMISSIONS root.users 0664
13:04 < rxr> th: that is not perfect
13:04 < th> does this sound familar?
13:04 < th> it's no matter with ide discs only.
13:04 < th> but with SATA (which appear as scsi) and native scsi discs...
13:05 < rxr> yes - I did not wrote that IIRC, I had a more complex expression and SMP and someone on the list proposed this
13:05 < th> rxr: the intention is for burning CDroms, i suppose?
13:06 < th> rxr: where can i find your more complex version?
13:07 < th> this issue should be worth a hotfix
13:07 < SMP> guys.
13:07 < th> yea?
13:07 < rxr> th I already search for it ...
13:07 < rxr> hi SMP 
13:07 < SMP> the intention of the original code was to only chmod 664 the generic if it belonged to a cd
13:07 < th> rxr: thx
13:08 < th> SMP: that would be ok, wouldn't it?
13:08 < SMP> but that produced error messages when the generic dev. did not exist
13:09 < SMP> so Jimmy rewrote it (r1602), but kept it mode 644
13:09 < th> ok - but the current solution is no acceptable replacement.
13:09 < SMP> and then
13:09 < SMP> r2111 | rene | 2004-01-02 20:59:45 +0100 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004) | 2 lines
13:09 < SMP> cdrom devices should be user writeable by default - at least to rip Audio CD ..
13:09 < th> harr!
13:09 < th> so we claim it back to rxr?
13:09 < th> ;-P
13:11 < SMP> what we would probably want to do it leave generic alone in general, and only chmod it if it belongs to a cd dev., but then only if the generic really exists (is a SCSI cdrom, module loaded)
13:12 < th> even with +w on cd|generic a user could remotely blank a cd-rw of another user
13:13 < th> - just a side remark -
13:13 < th> i think users should not get access to cd devices
13:13 < SMP> yeah, this can't be solved with DAC permissions
13:13 < netrunner> or write nasty pictures on it ...
13:13 < th> netrunner: or open,close,open,close,open,close the drive bay
13:13  * netrunner found a db hotsaltycumshots in his sql :/
13:14 < netrunner> now this strengthens my idea to seperate data server and internet server once again :)
13:15 < netrunner> I already wondered in the morning where my jukebox had gone ... the only application that uses the sql server :)
13:15 < th> what about "security by default"? i think we should NOT give user-access to devices.
13:15 < rxr> th on a desktop system users should be able to burn CDs - that your server environment is diferent is obvious
13:15 < th> rxr: i'm _not_ talking of servers
13:15 < th> rxr: i'm talking of desktops
13:15 < netrunner> rxr: k3b automatically creates a group cdrecording on first start.
13:15 < th> rxr: but i have multiple users on desktops and sshd running
13:16 < th> is this only in desktop target?
13:16  * netrunner thinks it should be secure by default, if somebody want's to change it, he can do so.
13:16 < SMP> it would be possible to have a fixed 'cdwriter' group, or use a 'console' group that users are granted if they log in on the console. the latter does not provide the security it promises on first look, though
13:16 < th> and we could offer stone-mod to change away from the secure default
13:17 < rxr> do whatever you want ...
13:17  * rxr needs to wipe the email address in submaster - damn spamming
13:17  * netrunner proposes chmod +s {,/user}/sbin* for desktop systems
13:17 < th> rxr: that's very dismotivating AND non-constructive.
13:18 < SMP> with the 'cdwriter' group you probably end up putting everyone into it, and then it's just like granting write permissions to the user group
13:18 < netrunner> SMP: but you won't put eg 'http' in it. 
13:18 < th> SMP: yea - but it's still better than default +w IMHO
13:19 < th> netrunner: ack
13:19 < netrunner> or I don't want my brother to burn on my pc. ...
13:19 < th> netrunner: but http is not in user, is it?
13:19 < SMP> netrunner: http is not a member of users anyway?!
13:19 < netrunner> th: no.
13:19 < netrunner> yes, I admit.
13:19 < th> perhps we should have a "Hauptbenutzer" group
13:19 < SMP> *brrr*
13:19 < th> *g*
13:19 < netrunner> th: cool, and then rename root->Administrator
13:20 < netrunner> and syslog->eventlog
13:20 < netrunner> and / to c:  ... :)
13:20 < th> s/\/\\/g
13:20 < th> s/\//\\/g
13:20 < netrunner> mkdir /c: ; mv /* /c:/; export $root=/c:
13:20 < th> let's keep some foxus
13:20 < th> s,foxus,focus,
13:21 < th> (but i liked foxus)
13:22 < SMP> there is no optimum solutions possible with just UNIX MAC
13:22 < SMP> either it's insecure or inconvenient
13:22 < th> but it could be secure.
13:22 < SMP> and there ain't no such thing as 'a little insecure'
13:22 < th> i'd prefer inconvenient over insecurity as default
13:23  * netrunner nodds
13:23 < th> and we can improve inconvenience by providing cute stone mods
13:24 < th> .oO(personally i'd never thought i would call a stone-mod cute, someday)
13:24 < SMP> ehm. s,MAC,DAC, of course
13:24 < th> rxr: does audio ripping required generic-device access?
13:27 < netrunner> th: I think not, i rip as user.
13:28 < th> but we need write access to generic to burn?
13:28 < netrunner> jup
13:28 < th> and to "cd" on non-scsi?
13:28 < SMP> yes
13:29 < th> well i don't see the problem with non-existent generics. as i understand it, generic is only exitent on scsi
13:29 < netrunner> yes, and with ide-scsi
13:29 < th> we should split ^(ide|scsi) then
13:29 < th> netrunner: ide-scsi, sata-scsi - all this
13:29 < th> netrunner: but it's all scsi
13:30 < th> netrunner: ouhm. you mean we need access to "cd" when scsi-emu is active?
13:30 < th> netrunner: and we don't need on native scsi?
13:31 < th> so we still need a way to identify a "generic" as cd-generic
13:33 < netrunner> netrunner: cannot tell, I never had generic scsi :)
13:33 < netrunner> s/generic/native/
13:33 < th> th: i see
13:33 < SMP> can only be done with a /bin/test for a "cd" on the same dir
13:33 < th> SMP: perhaps by using the /dev/cdroms/ facility?
13:34 < SMP> huh, how?
13:34 < th> executing chmod on the right devfs hook?
13:34 < th> REGISTER?
13:35 < SMP> yes, you can hook in onto ^.*/cd$ but then you're back to the original problem and need to suppress errors if the generic does not exist
13:36 < SMP> _and_ you don't get your generic chmoded if you insmod sg at a later time
13:36 < th> wouldn't that cause a REGISTER?
13:36 < SMP> can't we just switch to udev? ;->
13:36 < rxr> SMP: ?
13:37 < SMP> th: yes, for the generic, but not the cd dev.
13:37 < th> REGISTER      cdroms PERMISSIONS root.root rw-rw-rw-
13:37 < th> that solves it for the cd dev
13:37 < SMP> eh?
13:39 < th> oh we even have groups in these REs
13:43 < th> REGISTER    ^(cdroms/cdrom.)$ EXECUTE chmod 664 $(dirname $(readlink \1))/*
13:43 < th> but we would need a reliable "readlink"
13:43 < th> oh it's in coreutils
13:43 < th> that should suffice
13:44 < SMP> what the hell
13:44 < SMP> just use /cd$
13:45 < SMP> or rather
13:45 < th> that should make no difference
13:45 < SMP> ^ide/.*/cd$
13:45 -!- tfing [~tfing@APoitiers-103-1-5-224.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #rocklinux
13:45 < SMP> and scsi seperated
13:46 < tfing> hi
13:46 < SMP> th: it's much less complicated
13:46 < th> so show me the devfsd.conf scsi line please
13:47 < SMP> not until we have the policy figured out
13:47 < th> i mean as you did for ide: "^ide/.*/cd$"
13:47 < th> show me the less complicate way to get the generic device
13:47 < th> without using dirname or so
13:48 < SMP> ^(scsi/.*/)cd$ -> \1/generic
13:49 < th> ok. this is a good one
13:49 < th> yes - it was too complicated ;>
13:49 < th> no
13:49 < th> stop
13:49 < th> this won't work...
13:50 < th> this won't be called on generic-device's REGISTER
13:50 < SMP> arrrgh
13:50 < th> neither would mine i suppose
13:50 < SMP> 13:35| < SMP> yes, you can hook in onto ^.*/cd$ but then you're back to the original problem and need to suppress errors if the generic does not exist 
13:50 < SMP> 13:36| < SMP> _and_ you don't get your generic chmoded if you insmod sg at a later time
13:50 < SMP> so either:
13:50 < th> REGISTER ^(scsi/.*/)cd$ EXECUTE chmod 664 \1/*
13:51 < SMP> a) hook into the REGISTER scsi/.*/cd and also chmod generic, if it exists, or
13:52 < SMP> b) hook into the /generic$ REGISTER and test if a corresponding cd exists
13:52 < th> and this test could be done with readlink and dirname using /dev/cdroms/
13:53 < SMP> what the hell
13:54 < SMP> ^(scsi/.*/)generic$ EXECUTE [ -b \1/cd ] && chmod 664 \1/generic
13:54 < SMP> or something like that
13:54 < SMP> but leave /dev/cdroms/ alone ...
13:54 < fake> moin
13:55 < th> SMP: using [] won't work in devfsd.conf
13:55 < th> moin fake
13:55 < netrunner> what world is this where the ./configure first tries to start a graphical configure, and then calls make by itself?
13:55 < SMP> th: why not?
13:55 < th> SMP: Jul 28 13:55:14 ws12 devfsd[502]: error execing: "["^INo such file or directory 
13:55 < th> perhaps we should execute a bash
13:56 < th> and give it as command
13:56 < SMP> then make it test -b ... && chmod ...
13:56 < th> netrunner: should we guess tha package now?
13:56 < netrunner> th: qdvdauthor
13:57 < th> netrunner: you screwed up the game by giving the solution to fast.
13:57 < fake> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
13:57 < SMP> but there should be a /usr/bin/[ -> test - why don't we have it ...
13:57 < fake> DAMN DEBIAN CRAP
13:57  * fake compiled glibc in 4-5 hours on an old Mac
13:57 < fake> Created file outside basedir: /var/backups/infodir.bak
13:57 < fake> ARGH ARGH ARGH
13:58 < th> SMP: even && does not seem to work correctly we need to wrap this in some bash -c '...'
13:58 < SMP> crap
14:01 < th> using && in devfsd.conf does not work. that's crappy.
14:02 < th> so how would you want to circumvent?
14:02 < SMP> call and external script
14:02 < SMP> s,and,an,
14:02 < th> uhhh
14:02 < SMP> damnit
14:02 < th> external script?
14:02 < th> hmmm :-/
14:03 < th> bash -c "" would not work either..
14:05 < th> i dislike to have an external script for that :-(
14:08 < SMP> can't have your cake and eat it, too ...
14:12 < netrunner> http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_8437.html
14:15 < th> netrunner: tres practique
14:16 < th> SMP: so where is a good place for such a scritp?
14:17 < th> SMP: /usr/bin?
14:20 < SMP> more like /usr/lib/devfsd/ ?
14:20 < netrunner> /etc/devfsd.d/ ?
14:21 < SMP> no!
14:21 < th> netrunner: hehe. that would cause inclusion bye devfsd.conf
14:22 < netrunner> oh .)
14:25 < th> hmmm kernel 2.6 makes me migrate from ps2 to usb :-/
14:26 < SMP> which is a really good move ;->
14:26 < th> not reaaly
14:26 < th> there dont seem to be good kvm's
14:29 < daja77> what's wrong with usb mice?
14:31 -!- kasc_ [kasc@dsl-213-023-189-228.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
14:31 < th> daja77: it's the problem finding apropriate kvm switches
14:33 < rxr> netrunner: you packaged rtsp, may I ask where you used it for?
14:34 < SMP> it's used by xine or mplayer
14:35 < daja77> to play realmedia in full screen ...
14:35 < rxr> SMP: of course I know that
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14:49 < netrunner> rxr: there were some streams I looked at. don't know exactly, but now and then one comes by and I watch it :)
14:50 < netrunner> rxr: ah, iirc I originally wanted to listen to chaosradio, but they used a proprietarized version of rtsp or so, which was not compatible with the linux rtsp.
14:50 < rxr> netrunner: so only normal use, no set up servers on your side?
14:51 < netrunner> rxr: no, client use.
14:51 < rxr> ok
14:51 < SMP> uhhh
14:51 < SMP> I doubt running an RTSP server with that code is going to be a rewarding thing
14:52  * netrunner didn't know it was possible :)
14:53 < rxr> SMP: you mean you think the code is shit?
14:54 < SMP> I don't know about the quality of the code - I did some experiments and it did not interop
14:54 < rxr> do you even use s.th. in production?
14:54 < SMP> nope
14:54 < SMP> what do you want to do?
14:55 < rxr> in the beginning I only wanted to use my new DVB card - but all the apps sucks majorly ...
14:55 < rxr> currently I play around with video streaming - but guess what ... ?
14:55 < rxr> SMP: did you found server code that was better than the live stuff?
14:56 < SMP> QTSS, though I have only limited experience with it
14:57 < SMP> but that leaves the problem of getting the video feed from the DVB card to the server
14:58 < rxr> do you used the commercial Apple version - or the OpenDawring Streaming Server?
14:58 < SMP> yes, actually the DSS
14:58 < SMP> should not make any difference though
14:59 < rxr> on Linux then, I guess?
14:59 < SMP> yes
15:00 < SMP> to stream a live feed you would probably want to write a DVB backend for mp4live (mpeg4ip.sf.net)
15:00 < SMP> which means you'd have to do on-the-fly mpeg4 compression
15:01 < SMP> what's wrong with using vlc?
15:01 < rxr> does not work for me ...
15:02 < SMP> the DVB input?
15:02 < rxr> I do not want it to use DVB directly
15:02 < SMP> but?
15:02 < rxr> I tried to stream ts and ps - but it does not want to use either
15:04 < rxr> did you stream s.th. with vlc?
15:04 < rxr> IIRC it worked last night with a normal mpeg2 file ...
15:05 < rxr> but not with a PS or TS
15:06 < SMP> I only used vlc streaming not in connection with DVB
15:06 < SMP> but I have watched a DVB network stream with vlc
15:07 < rxr> locally accessing the card? Or how?
15:07 < [anders]> narf..
15:07 < SMP> no, it was some proprietary windows software streaming it
15:07 < [anders]> oh well, only two and a half day left..
15:10 < rxr> SMP: ah - and the latest vlc does core dump preparing to stream a mpeg2 which worked with the previous version ... :(
15:12 < SMP> someone please blow up all that crappy Linux video / audio patchwork
15:13 < rxr> yeah - I guess you know why I rant so much about that stuff the last days ...
15:56 < rxr> YEAH !!!
15:56 < rxr> I'm able to stream with ffmpeg only
15:56 < rxr> crazzy
15:57 < rxr> wow - even on the fly recompressed to mpeg4
15:57 < rxr> although my test k6-2@350 is obviously to slow for that 
15:57 < rxr> nice - the first thing I did not need to hack hours on to get a bit thru the network ...
16:00 < th> the devfsd.d/hardware issue is solved in 2004072815592412743 - please review.
16:00 < daja77> ffmpeg is from the same guy who wrote qemu iirc
16:00 < th> rxr: what things can ffmpeg capture and stream them?
16:01 < th> rxr: could i use it to stream from my old bttv card?
16:02 < rxr> yes - seem so ... if you have enough CPU power to compress ...
16:02 < th> rxr: what clients are capable of viewing this streaming?
16:03 < rxr> mplayer at least
16:03 < th> ok
16:04 < th> *adding this to my to-look-at list*
16:04 < rxr> but most other too I guess, xine and the M$ player should do - the doc at least list those.
16:04 < rxr> it is the normal http streaming stuff ...
16:05 < th> cool
16:05 < th> rxr: and i could use it to record it to disc, i suppose...
16:05 < SMP> "normal http streaming"?
16:05 < th> lol
16:05 < th> hehe
16:07 < rxr> SMP: ?
16:07 -!- A-Tui [~atui@87.Red-81-35-63.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #rocklinux
16:08 < th> rxr: it's not normal at all to stream http ;)
16:09 < rxr> I do not care as long as it works ..
16:09 < blindy> d'oh
16:09 < blindy> damn
16:09 < blindy> sh*t
16:09 < blindy> fsck
16:10 < blindy> looks like the machine my attendange at DevMeeting depends on will be... interesting
16:10 < blindy> I can't give the project someone else and it is already delayed by four days
16:10 < blindy> so in effect I have to finish the machine in <4 days >_<
16:11 < blindy> well... it just _might_ work
16:12 < rxr> th: SMP: ffserver is an HTTP (RTSP is being developped) multimedia streaming server for live broadcasts. Time shifting of live broadcast is also supported.
16:12 < netrunner> blindy: according to the schedule the devmeeting is next week, no?
16:13 < netrunner> blindy: so you have 1,5 weeks
16:14 -!- TxD [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has joined #rocklinux
16:15 < TxD> moin
16:17 -!- TxD [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has quit [Client Quit]
16:17 < blindy> netrunner: the machine arrives at Friday
16:18 < blindy> netrunner: and I want to be in IN at the 5th
16:25 < netrunner> ah.
16:29 < blindy> netrunner: bad omen: the machine should have arrived on monday :l
16:29 < blindy> :/
16:35  * blindy gone
16:48 < mnemoc> moin
16:48 < th> hi mnemoc 
16:48 < mnemoc> have you seen madtux?
16:48 < mnemoc> hi th
16:55 < mnemoc> three chilean diplomatics were murdered inside the embasy at .cr by a local policy who had been working in the embasy for 5 years :\
16:55 < daja77> huh
16:56 < mnemoc> .cr people is insane :\ madtux!!
17:18 < mnemoc> daja77: how has the meeting with the rt's customer?
17:23 < daja77> it is tomorrow
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17:46 -!- madtux [~mike@200.122.133.176] has joined #rocklinux
17:46 < madtux> hello.
17:48 < th> how to read the bad-block list from ide drive?
17:49 < th> or is this a filesystem information?
17:50 < mnemoc> hi costaricense
17:51 < madtux> hi chilito
17:51 < madtux> mnemoc: costarricense = tico
17:52 < mnemoc> hi madticox then :)
18:01 < rxr> yes it is fs specific
18:01 < rxr> ^- th
18:01 < th> rxr: thanks.
18:02 < th> rxr: so i have to run badblocks on the block device if i don't know where the underlying software has stored information
18:02 < th> (has been part of raid5)
18:04 < rxr> depends what you want to do later with the info
18:04 < rxr> if you want to format ext* it is better to use the badblock option of mkext* since otherwise you must pass some exact values to the badblock app ...
18:05 < SMP> drives with bad blocks really should just be thrown away
18:05 < th> i want to know if i should sent it for RMA
18:05 < th> or if i could put it back into RAID
18:06 < th> the raid5 just disabled the drive due to error. i don't know nothing about the error.
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18:25 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@80.146.91.53] has joined #rocklinux
18:26 < dzafez> hi who has ever tried to run mysqld on Rock?
18:26  * madtux raises hand.
18:26  * mnemoc use pg
18:27  * madtux didn't know pg was the same saying mSQL
18:27 < DieTerkE> so yes, i am trying the coolness of rock
18:29 < madtux> DieTerkE: glad to hear
18:29 < DieTerkE> i'm trying to enlighten my company aswell
18:29 < mnemoc> madtux use the pimpness of G* ;)
18:30 < madtux> thats a good thing DieTerkE 
18:30 < madtux> mnemoc: ?
18:30 < mnemoc> sorry :(
18:37 < DieTerkE> madtux: true true
18:37 < DieTerkE> rock appears to be an excellent thing to 
18:37 < DieTerkE> - create live-rescue cds
18:38 < DieTerkE> - create pxe-boot-install-server-thing :-)
18:38 < DieTerkE> - create yer own custom distro
18:39 < madtux> and a lot more :)
18:40 < mnemoc> that's what's makes a distribution build kit a unique and without comparison tool :)
18:40 < DieTerkE> true, but those three are my main reasons
18:41 < DieTerkE> now excuse me, i got a handbook to read :-)
18:41 < madtux> DieTerkE: so what does your company do?
18:41 < DieTerkE> we deliver broadband over sattelite accross europe
18:41 < DieTerkE> satellite is kinda cool
18:42 < mnemoc> any question you get, just ask :) we are here to help
18:42 < DieTerkE> i'm not asking yet dude :-)
18:43 < DieTerkE> first read @ random
18:43 < DieTerkE> i got my rock allready running, that was easy
18:43 < madtux> mnemoc: i have a question... how could brasil beat chile at the copa america?
18:43 < DieTerkE> seems to me configuring/building it is a hard bugger
18:44 < mnemoc> madtux: because they are lucky and score on 'after-time' :( .... i wonder how .cr beat .cl on copa america
18:44 < mnemoc> DieTerkE: uhm?
18:47 < madtux> mnemoc: oh well thats because even that crappy team we took there with non of the stars is much better than .cl
18:48 < mnemoc> madtux: that's why you murdered our dipomatics last night?
18:49 < fake> DieTerkE: you could sponsor some downlinks ;)
18:49 < madtux> shut the fsck up! don't crtitizace all of us for a dump jerk that went crazy.. i feel quite pissed at it.. but what pisses me even more is how now all of u think that all costarricans are murderers
18:49 < fake> hey you two
18:49 < fake> it's just soccer
18:49 < mnemoc> madtux: relax pal
18:49 < madtux> DieTerkE: can u sponsor me and mnemoc some satelital broadband? :)
18:50 < madtux> fake: hello :)
18:50 < fake> madtux: he said "Europe" *g*
18:50 < madtux> fake: i know.. but PLEASE don't blame me for trying :)
18:50 < mnemoc> can u sponson me and madtux a fly to europe to test your satelital broadband? :)
18:50 < fake> hehe
18:51  * fake needs coffee
18:51 < fake> mnemoc: was it you i talked to about the dietlibc problem yesterday?
18:51 < fake> mnemoc: it was late and i was drunk (birthday party of a friend)
18:51  * madtux saw fake talking to armijn yesterday.. even several minutes after he had left the chan..
18:52 < fake> *GG*
18:52 < fake> the party is still going
18:53 < DieTerkE> madtux: fake: mnemoc: www.aramiska.net 
18:53 < DieTerkE> kinda expensive if you ask me :-)
18:53 < madtux> DieTerkE: you do realize that this comment was logged on the net for eternity right?
18:53 < madtux> ;-)
18:54 < DieTerkE> uhm :-
18:54  * DieTerkE runs, hides, crawls into the depths of the night and 'smoothly' hits madtux on the face with a hammer
18:54 < madtux> oh thank you so much.
18:54 < fake> 1,7 Mbps ?
18:54 < DieTerkE> u kinda needed that true
18:55 < fake> mnet sdsl goes up to 4,6 Mbps with a real flat rate as 900 EUR/month
18:55 < fake> *at
18:56 < dzafez> see u later rocklinux.org
18:56 -!- dzafez [~dzafez@80.146.91.53] has quit ["Verlassend"]
18:56 < DieTerkE> cmon, u do faster in the air fake :-)
18:56 < fake> DieTerkE: i am astonished by the bandwith they can send useless TV fluff down 
19:00 < mnemoc> what 'servus' means? i don't understand this 'hi, bye' translation
19:02 < DieTerkE> agreed fake :-)
19:04 < fake> mnemoc: both
19:04 < fake> mnemoc: like 'ciao'
19:04 < fake> mnemoc: in italy, chiao means hello, in germany it's 'see you'
19:06 < mnemoc> ic, it can be used in both situations
19:06 < fake> yes. so it mostly depends on pronounciation
19:07 -!- TxD [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has joined #rocklinux
19:07 < mnemoc> i thought it was like a "hi and goodbye"
19:07 < fake> if you make it sound like the start of a sentence it's hello, if it sounds like the end of a sentence it's good bye
19:07 -!- TxD [hans@mab-host-38-103.mab.km3.de] has left #rocklinux ["No boundaries on the net"]
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19:07 < TxD> re
19:12 < rxr> hi TxD 
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19:49 < fake> huh
19:49  * fake wondering
19:49 < madtux> ...?
19:50 < fake> the minimal-desktop is predicted to have a size of 1200MB (acc. to cache files)
19:50 < fake> the livecd image i get is only 404 MB big...
19:50 < rxr> is this for or after compression?
19:51 < fake> this is the compressed suqashfs
19:51 < fake> that means the installed packages in a compressed filesystem
19:51 < rxr> and what is the uncompressed size?
19:51 < fake> counting...
19:51 < th> fake: what us a suqashfs?
19:51 < th> s,us,is,
19:52 < rxr> squash even IIRC
19:52 < fake> th: cloop rethought
19:52 < fake> rxr: 1.3 G
19:52 < th> fake: any url for further info?
19:52 < rxr> th google ;-)
19:52 < fake> th: package/fake/suqashfs-tools
19:54 < th> thanks to both of you ;)
19:54 < fake> th: i'd have to look it up in the desc file myself. squashfs.sf.net or so
19:56  * fake used glibc -static now to create an un-optimized livecd
19:56 < rxr> hm?
19:56 < fake> the dietlibc linuxrc's didn't work on 2 pentium-mmxen
19:56 < fake> i mean, glibc -static linuxrc on an un-optimized livecd (generic)
19:57 < rxr> not the sysenter thing?
19:57 < fake> not sure.
19:57 < fake> it's just a general test.
19:57 < fake> not a solution ;)
20:02 -!- wschlich [nobody@wschlich.developer.gentoo] has joined #rocklinux
20:03 < fake> jo, with glibc -static it works.
20:05 < fake> argh
20:05 < rxr> ?
20:05 < fake>  /bin/su : cannot open shared library: libpam.so.0
20:05 < fake> >_<
20:05 < fake> why isn't it there *cry*
20:06 < fake> libpam.so and libpam.so.0.77 is there
20:06 < fake> na, however, i have to leave. see you tomorrow!
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21:29 < owl> hi... 
21:29 < owl> someone has tipps what to do with "ein/aus/umgerengten rueckenwirbeln"? 
21:35 < madtux> i could try if i actually what does all that mean :)
21:35 < madtux> actually understood*
21:35 < madtux> hi owly btw
21:39 < owl> madtux: hi. sorry. have no browser here atm
21:39 < owl> and have to try to have a shower. which me luck that i will survive it. thx
21:41 < [anders]> lo madtux 
21:41 < [anders]> madtux: bad news from me I am afraid, IBM terminated my contract two months early. I am leaving Hursley on Friday
21:47 < madtux> owl: i can join you if u are too scared
21:47  * madtux hides quickly
21:47 < madtux> [anders]: WHAT?!
21:48 < [anders]> madtux: yeah.. I found outtuesday morning
21:48 < madtux> [anders]: query please
21:48 -!- De_Elsasser [~eric@ANancy-110-1-24-35.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
21:48 < zzoc> owl: lol;)
21:49 < zzoc> owl: wtf? you has got an "ausgeraenkter rueckenwirbel"
22:42 < daja77> re
22:45 < madtux> ra.
22:49 < daja77> :p
22:59 < owl> zzoc: yes
23:00 < owl> hamster is a little rat
23:01 < owl> hamster eating windows-key O_o
23:01 < owl> hamster running under linux?
23:01 < true> the right key ;)
23:01  * mnemoc wants to eat roaster hamster
23:01  * owl wants to kick mnemoc 
23:02  * netrunne1 wants more beer. 
23:02 -!- netrunne1 is now known as netrunner
23:02 < netrunner> got a bit too cold in the beergarden ;)
23:02 < mnemoc> *g*
23:03  * owl wants a new backside
23:05 < madtux> would u like to trade ur "backside" with mnemoc ?
23:05 < owl> ???
23:06  * netrunner drank too much beer. checking flights to chile ;)
23:06 < netrunner> ouch ... EUR 2186,53
23:06 < owl> O_o
23:07 < netrunner> those stupid flight search engines don't have an option for "i don't care which day exactly" :(
23:07 < madtux> netrunner: u promissed to come to .cr!
23:07 < madtux> arrg
23:07 < netrunner> oh, messed up the order :)
23:07 < netrunner> madtux: is it cheaper to fly to you? :)
23:07 < madtux> netrunner: MUCH cheaper..
23:08 < madtux> u would save more than EUR 1000 
23:08 < netrunner> madtux: I guess you won :)
23:08 < netrunner> for the same date ...  EUR 2470,36 **
23:08 < mnemoc> hehehe
23:08 < madtux> what?
23:09 < netrunner> this is stupid. I bet a few days earlier or later there are cheaper flights.
23:09 < madtux> what airline are u actually trying to fly with?
23:09 < netrunner> just this engine is not capable searching them.
23:09 < netrunner> dunno, I am trying opodo.de, it searches multiple...
23:09 < madtux> netrunner: which dates are those?
23:09 < madtux> even to me flying on the last week of december would mean $1200 ..
23:09 < mnemoc> netrunner: there are days for business people and there are days for normal people
23:09 < netrunner> madtux: incl back?
23:10 < madtux> roundtrip yes
23:11 < madtux> heck last year some friends came from munich and they spend $800 roundtrip each with british ariways
23:11 < madtux> airways*
23:11 < mnemoc> madtux: how many days was he at .cr ?
23:11 < madtux> 2 weeks.
23:11 < mnemoc> short trips are considered business and pay double
23:12 < madtux> she was 2 weeks here with her sister
23:12 < mnemoc> ^^
23:12 < netrunner> _she_ must have had fun with her sister at yours *g*
23:13 < netrunner> damn, I'd like to kick this guy's *** who deliberately dropped all my mysql db's by abusing my apache to access my sql.
23:16 < netrunner> hm, what countryside/people is nicer, chile or cr?
23:16 < netrunner> I mean, they are quite close, what about a roundtrip?
23:20 < madtux> netrunner: what are u actually willing to do when u vist .cr or/and .cl?
23:21 < netrunner> dunno. what does one do in holidays? haven't had one for about 2 years :/
23:21 < netrunner> and I think those plans will only work out in about next feb or so :(
23:23 < madtux> next feb... u mean toursim high season..
23:23 < netrunner> hm.
23:25 < madtux> netrunner: its ok.. just that lets say from may to november u can often get prices at half the cost between dec - april
23:27 < netrunner> hm. maybe I try to take 2 weeks sept/oct ... I think lectures start on oct 11th anyway.
23:29 < netrunner> how about visa, does one need one for cr/chile?
23:29 < madtux> no visa needed for u in .cr
23:29 < madtux> as far as i know
23:29 < mnemoc> neither here
23:30 < madtux> btw i will be in brazil from october 3rd - 17th.
23:30 < netrunner> ... for not eu citicen?
23:30 < madtux> ack
23:30 < mnemoc> netrunner: what are you?
23:30 < netrunner> mnemoc: I'd travel with my ... better half :)
23:31 < netrunner> she's moldovan.
23:31 < mnemoc> :)
23:31 < mnemoc> i guess she won't need
23:32 < netrunner> I
23:33 < madtux> wtf is moldovan?
23:33 < netrunner> I've been longing to make a far-journey for a long time now. iirc my last trip was in 2000 or so.
23:33 < netrunner> madtux: www.moldova.md
23:33 < madtux> okis
23:33 < netrunner> between romania and ukraine
23:34 < madtux> netrunner: well u will always be welcome here.. and i think the same in .cl
23:34 < netrunner> yeah, have to finally find a date that works ;)
23:34 < netrunner> you guys are always welcome at my house, but I hope I don't have to mention that.
23:35 < madtux> well thanks for mentioning it :)
23:37 < mnemoc> netrunner: http://www7.lan.com/vacaciones/promociones/frankfurt_madrid_129.html <--- is this cheap or expensive?
23:39 < mnemoc> just to have an idea of how expensive or cheap is 'our' airline
23:39 < netrunner> mnemoc: my spanish is not so fluent, this sounds cheap, but you have to make sure all airport fees, taxes  etc are included.
23:39 < netrunner> compare the cheapest munich-berlin-munich I heard of was 100eur
23:39 < mnemoc> netrunner: on the right-upper-corner you choose language
23:42 < netrunner> hm, so it's about 190 eur ... this sounds ok. 
23:43 < mnemoc> travel tips -> chile
23:43 < mnemoc> only new zelanders need visa o_O
23:45 < madtux> mnemoc: what about people from irak?
23:45 < mnemoc> free pass ;)
23:45 < mnemoc> saddam is welcomed 
23:45 < daja77> hehe you don't like hobbits eh?
23:45 < madtux> what about Osama Bin Mery?
23:46 < madtux> i mean Ladden
23:46 < daja77> can't get in with his new zealand pass
23:46 < mnemoc> madtux: uhm
23:46 < mnemoc> daja77: hobbits are new zelanders?
23:46 < madtux> i though they were from the shire..
23:47 < mnemoc> me too
23:47 < owl> *yawns*
23:47 < daja77> mnemoc: the movies were made there
23:47 < mnemoc> ic, the shire is at new zealand :)
23:47 < madtux> oh cool.. so is mordor there too?
23:48 < madtux> owl: hi.
23:48 < madtux> owl: you still live in the woods right?
23:48 < mnemoc> madtux: it must be at .cr, they murder the embassadors too
23:48 < mnemoc> (jk)
23:49 < madtux> i love /ignore :)
23:50 < owl> madtux: yep :)
23:50 < madtux> owl nice :)
23:50 < owl> why?
23:50 < mnemoc> why nice? uhmm...
--- Log closed Thu Jul 29 00:00:27 2004