--- Log opened Mon Oct 04 00:00:47 2004
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 04 00:56:14 2004
--- Log opened Mon Oct 04 00:56:56 2004
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02:36:08<blindcoder> moin
02:36:19<dsoul> hi blindcoder 
03:25:55ωνω kasc [kasc@dsl-213-023-191-098.arcor-ip.net] has joined #rocklinux
03:29:30<blindcoder> moin kasc 
03:52:13<kasc> moin
04:06:43ωνω asda [~heirit@adsl-62-167-66-79.adslplus.ch] has joined #rocklinux
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04:38:28* netrunner throwing a big creamy tart at daja77
04:39:26* blindcoder catches itr in mid-air and immediately eats it
04:43:12<asda> Does anybody know why syslog-ng breaks in pre-stable 2.0.3?
04:43:35<netrunner> blindcoder: bad for your shape ;)
04:45:12<blindcoder> netrunner: no, good! If I loose too much weight, my skin will fall together (verschrumpeln :P)
04:46:46ωνω nzg [~tschmidt@pD95F8774.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
04:48:37<netrunner> oh, I just noticed that the date on my watch is one day behind ...
04:48:50<blindcoder> tsktsk
04:49:12* netrunner throwing another creamy tart, spawning a timehole in middle-air to yesterday, still aimed at daja77  :)
04:49:25<blindcoder> *lol*
04:49:48<netrunner> that nobody invented a mechanism for those watches to recognize short months...
04:50:17<blindcoder> well, breitling idi
04:50:18<blindcoder> did
04:50:39<netrunner> blindcoder: breitling is not my price category :)
04:51:06<blindcoder> that's entirely unrelated to the aforementioned problem :)
04:52:58<netrunner> blindcoder: well, then you could suggest using a caesium clock
04:53:52<blindcoder> breitling came to mind first :)
04:55:18<netrunner> since we were talking about shapes anyway, no?  ;)
04:56:21<blindcoder> :P
05:09:07<asda> wtf is the targe "Rock Linux for VIA EPIA M"?
05:12:04<blindcoder> netrunner: that's your thing, no?
05:14:31<asda> I do have a Epia M6000 on which I want to run ROCK as a WLAN-Access-Point. But I allready spent 1 week for ROCK and still got nothing
05:14:55<asda> 2.0.2 had wrong package depencies -> no chroot possible
05:15:15<asda> pre-2.0.3 broke at various packages (ex. syslog-ng)
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05:15:42<asda> that's why I'm now thinking about "Adamantix" or somethink like it
05:17:31<netrunner> asda: well, it contains some patches for glibc iirc, that remove the usage of the cmov instruction. further there are drivers for the buitlin mpeg decoder and a Xfree driver for the cle266.
05:17:45<asda> cool...
05:18:06<netrunner> asda: it can be that the patches don't apply to recent versions, I had no time to adapt them to the recent updates...
05:18:07<asda> So it's a "generic rock linux" with the ability to compile as i686
05:18:38<asda> ok. So I'm going to use i586 with "generic rock"... I don't want any compile trouble anymore ;)
05:18:40<netrunner> asda: yes, that was the purpose. but you need to use gcc34 for it, as the older gccs produce broken code when you forbid them the cmov.
05:19:16<netrunner> asda: according to benchmarks, the fastest optimization without tricks for my epia m 10000 (ezra) is the k6/2 optimization.
05:19:29<netrunner> asda: maybe you want to run the cbench test suite.
05:19:47<asda> I don't need the best performance but the biggest stability
05:23:36<asda> pentium-mmx is i586, right? so what's "via cyrix3/via-c3"?
05:25:58<netrunner> asda: cyrix was a processor that came to the markets the same time as pentium, but for trademark issues was always only called i586
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05:26:42<netrunner> asda: via-c3 is the processor built into the epia mainbords. there exist two different cores, the c3 with the ezra core and the newer c3-II with the nemiah core.
05:26:53<asda> I understand...
05:26:56<netrunner> (change was around the epiam10000
05:27:11<asda> I do have the Epia M6000 -> C3 Samuel2
05:27:12<netrunner> I have the 10k with the ezra, the nemiah came some month later.
05:28:01<netrunner> ok. the via-c3 optimization is only available in the gcc34 anyway.
05:28:25<asda> ok. But gcc34 isn't that stable at moment!?
05:28:37<blindcoder> why shouldn't ti?
05:28:40<blindcoder> it?
05:29:09<asda> because I tried it some weeks ago on my gentoo-desktop and several packages crashed!
05:29:13<netrunner> blindcoder: it produces broken code (sometimes). the optimizers are not perfect.
05:29:42<netrunner> asda: I have multiple complete systems running on gcc34. only problem I have is with sdl.
05:29:49<blindcoder> netrunner: well, I only noticed that in 3-groff with the infamous Pentrium4 opt
05:43:37<daja77> netrunner: :p
05:49:15<netrunner> daja77: hit? :)
05:49:45<daja77> *gg*
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05:56:32<guidob> hi
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06:53:07<th> uh oh oh
06:53:08<th> re
06:53:15<th> lot's of highlights in away time
06:53:22<th> let's handle them in order
06:53:30<th> blindcoder: pong
06:53:30<th> blindcoder: pong
06:53:41<blindcoder> :)
06:53:56<th> blindcoder: no. you can't rely on my "i committed" msg's in sm
06:54:05<daja77> hi th
06:54:22<th> blindcoder: i just use them sometimes as catalyst
06:54:45<th> blindcoder: if you want such thing - subscribe to subversion commit mails
06:55:12<blindcoder> th: yes, I am. I used that one now to do that :)
06:55:19<th> 2k
06:55:22<th> s,2,,
06:55:49<th> mnemoc_: now i am
06:56:17ωνω mtr [~michael@Gb629.g.pppool.de] has joined #rocklinux
06:57:18* th is reading backlog
07:01:21<netrunner> hi th
07:02:28<th> yea hi
07:02:53<daja77> th: what about a trip to dresden ;)
07:03:12<th> daja77: at the end of october i suppose
07:03:16<daja77> yep
07:03:31<daja77> of course you can go there any time you want ;)
07:09:10<th> daja77: quite a long trip
07:10:00<daja77> 3-4h i think, if not driving too fast
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07:10:42<daja77> 250km i guess
07:20:47<th> i'll think about it
07:24:00<daja77> ok :)
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07:45:12ωνω madtux [~mike@cable200-58-202-67.epm.net.co] has joined #rocklinux
07:45:18<madtux> hello
07:48:25<asda> are there that many missing-files in the trunk? scripts/Download -required isn't able to download linux-source/gawk/tar etc
07:48:48<daja77> hey madtux 
07:49:08<daja77> what error message you got?
07:49:50<th> asda: talking of 2.0-stable?
07:50:10<madtux> daja77, greetings from colombia :)
07:50:28<asda> no, the devel-trunk
07:50:51<blindcoder> moin madtux 
07:50:55<asda> updated via Update-src
07:51:15<madtux> hello blindy
07:53:07<th> blindcoder: i really like that sort of report
07:53:28<daja77> madtux: hey have nice stay there :)
07:53:35<blindcoder> th: thanks. but for next month there will be some changes
07:53:41<blindcoder> th: in the stats mostly
07:54:12<blindcoder> th: btw. I'll expect a report on the work in 2.0-stable until end of the month. 100 words :-)
07:55:17<blindcoder> th: I wanted to include something this month already but I didn't reach you
07:56:27<madtux> daja77, thanks.. i'm leaving tomorrow actually, remeber i'm supposed to go to brazil
07:57:34<daja77> yeah so when you'll go to brazil?
07:57:42<daja77> guess i already asked ...
07:58:03<madtux> daja77,  tomorrow mourning
07:58:15<madtux> i made a short business stop here in colombia first
07:58:49<daja77> ic hf :)
08:00:37<madtux> well work awaites.. see ya later :)
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08:00:56<daja77> cu
08:06:25<th> btw: subversion 1.1.0 is released
08:07:50<daja77> cool
08:08:20<daja77> .oO (I really have to work on that subversion talk for oct)
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08:54:38<mnemoc_> moin
08:55:39ωνω You're now known as mnemoc
08:56:12<daja77> moin mnemoc 
08:57:37<mnemoc> hi daja77 
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09:13:45<De_Elsasser> ave
09:14:07<daja77> hi De_Elsasser 
09:14:33<De_Elsasser> hi daja77 :_(
09:14:39<daja77> hm?
09:15:16<mnemoc> ?
09:37:39<netrunner> re
10:33:40<mnemoc> re
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12:03:08<blindcoder> heh, now why am I not surprised :)
12:03:25<daja77> about what
12:03:29<mnemoc> abauy what?
12:03:52<blindcoder> see mailinglist
12:04:52<mnemoc> rene's release?
12:04:56<blindcoder> yes
12:07:38<daja77> hm
12:14:45* blindcoder noting it in his newsletter-memo
12:17:35* blindcoder a bit away, ironing
12:34:29* valentin driving home now
12:34:31<valentin> cu later
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12:39:38<mesut> hi
12:40:02<mnemoc> hi
12:40:18ωνω huseyin [~huseyin@stahlgewitter.user] has joined #rocklinux
12:40:31<mesut> just found rocklinux, seems interesting.
12:40:33<huseyin> moin
12:41:07<mnemoc> moin
12:41:17<mesut> mnemoc, this has a port ssytem right ?
12:42:12<mnemoc> i'm not used to BSD concepts, what do you mean?
12:42:33<mesut> whats the package management ?
12:42:51<mesut> like debians apt-get, gentoo's emerge ? or redhats rpm
12:43:21<mnemoc> like gentoo's emerge and like redhats rpm (.gem)
12:43:52<mesut> no compiling rite ?
12:43:58<mnemoc> the product of a rock build is a bunch of .gem file to install, like .rpm
12:44:34<mesut> using Gentoo makes my lappie hot, im searching something like but without compiling (not debian :))
12:44:40<mnemoc> on a running machine of a rock unmaintained sub-distro you can use emerge (compiling in localy) as on gentoo
12:44:41<tcr> mesut, Actually, it has all three.
12:45:01<mnemoc> tcr: is rocket working?
12:45:04<tcr> mesut, (BSD ports, gentoo's emerge and rpms)
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12:45:28<tcr> All quite partially howsoever.
12:45:33<mesut> cool, ill try it.
12:45:51<huseyin> mesut: the show must go on :P
12:46:01* mesut is going to drop suse from the old box
12:46:07<mesut> huseyin, :D
12:53:04<huseyin> Das werde ich neben gentoo mal testen.. Gibts es auch deutschsprachige user im Chan ? Mein englisch ist schlecht fόr chat zwecke ..
12:54:34<tcr> huseyin, If you look at the hosts, you'll see that most people in here come from Germany or some other country where German is spoken.
12:55:27<mesut> tcr: probably he wont understand that :)
12:55:48<mesut> huseyin, diyo ki, hostname lere bak, ηoπu insan ya almanyadan ya da almanca konuώulan yerden
12:56:26<mnemoc> mesut: english please
12:56:38<blindcoder> puh, I really shouldn't let this pile up like that
12:56:53<mesut> mnemoc, huseyin doesnt speak it. i translated tcr's sentence to turkish.
12:57:23<mnemoc> i see
12:58:03<huseyin> thanks
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12:58:30<mnemoc> uhm... come back!!!!
12:58:32<mnemoc> :\
13:00:20<mesut> :D
13:00:37<mnemoc> :p
13:01:09<mesut> lets start to read the handbook...
13:01:31<mesut> The ROCK Linux handbook is currently under creation. It already contains around 130 A4 pages - or, if layouted for book form, over 150 pages! 
13:01:33<mesut> :O
13:02:31<mnemoc> it's a loong book
13:02:31<mesut> 1st disadvantage is support. #gentoo has always over 900 ppl
13:02:42<mnemoc> true
13:02:52<mnemoc> #gentoo is very popular
13:03:22<mesut> you must see the netsplit in #gentoo .. lol
13:03:31<blindcoder> well, comparing apples and oranges is always difficult
13:03:31<mnemoc> hehe
13:03:49<mnemoc> rocklinux is not a distribution, then it can't get popular
13:03:56<mesut> blindcoder, rock~gentoo comperision is in the rock handbook :P
13:04:24<blindcoder> mesut: well, I never read it :)
13:04:29<mesut> mnemoc, yes, seems for developers.
13:04:31<mnemoc> mesut: the handbook may tell you what ROCKLinux is
13:04:54<mesut> http://dl.rocklinux-consulting.de/rock-handbook/html/rock-handbookse2.html#x11-100002.2   on the bottom
13:05:41<mnemoc> yes :)
13:06:26<mesut> "sophisticated wrappers"   err what does that mean
13:07:18<mnemoc> an script or library between what programs run and what programs want to run
13:07:56<mnemoc> gcc, cp, open(), write() for example
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13:18:22<_Ragnar_> hi
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13:23:49<Ragnar0k> should make a autoconn. entry for freenode ;P
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14:01:52<netrunner> mnemoc: the rock handboock will probably soon be renamed to t2 handbook :)
14:03:58<blindcoder> heh
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16:37:05<ringo> windows sucks big time
16:37:20<daja77> hey ringo 
16:37:26<ringo> hi daja77
16:37:30<ringo> how are you ?
16:37:47<ringo> kill all what is left of m$
16:38:07<daja77> i am fine thx
16:38:56<ringo> Nice to hear I was fine untill I had to do things with WXP systems
16:40:13<daja77> ic :)
16:41:09<ringo> Really users do all sorts of suff whenn they are admin and then they come and complain about spyware and other s**t
16:42:27<ringo> (sorry for the complaining here) 
16:42:35<daja77> :)
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17:11:17<praenti> hi
17:11:34* praenti 's dsl problems now solved...
17:12:54<praenti> hmm. most people are sleeping already i think. and my room is a little bit cold...
17:13:04<daja77> hi praenti 
17:13:18<praenti> ahh. cool. hi daja77 
17:13:38<praenti> looks like i should invest some minutes
17:13:40* daja77 still needs to order dsl
17:13:49<daja77> invest into what?
17:14:03<praenti> daja77: in talking :-)
17:14:30<daja77> hehe
17:14:35<daja77> spend your words
17:14:48<praenti> i had a malfunction in my dsl line since lunch
17:15:08<praenti> but since an hour it is working again :-)
17:15:14<daja77> ah
17:15:32<praenti> daja77: but what i wanted to ask is how you think about the T2 mails
17:16:00<praenti> i have written a mail about a few minutes ago
17:16:47<praenti> and i hate my windows xp (which i booted to check s.th.). results always in wrong timzone...
17:17:03<daja77> what's wrong with that mail
17:17:40<praenti> this sounds for me like kindergarten
17:17:55<praenti> also the postings of some other people
17:18:33<daja77> in fact i like it that these information is shared with us and the project refers to us as the base of it, that's fair
17:18:47<praenti> T2 is as i can remember an own thing of rene and some other people. why they must post theier announcement on our lists even they want nothing to do with our team anymore
17:19:06<valentin> praenti: thats plain wrong.
17:19:20<praenti> but then the talk should be done in another tone
17:19:34<daja77> what tone are you speaking of
17:19:44<daja77> it was an announcement
17:19:45<valentin> rxr said he'll fully part from rock, I did not, and some other ppl like mnemoc do not want either
17:19:57<daja77> yes
17:20:09<daja77> i see no point in fighting t2
17:20:27<valentin> praenti: i know the announcement sounded quite 'rock pissing', but what to you expect from rxr at this time ?
17:20:44<daja77> i see it as a friendly competition with the possibility of code sharing
17:20:48<praenti> valentin: that was the point.
17:21:25<praenti> i want the competition, because this will be IMHO good for both projects
17:21:35<daja77> agreed
17:21:47<valentin> i tell rene to overwork the text on the t2 site and to remove all those "ugly hacks" in flavor of terms like "we think thats better, because...."
17:21:52<praenti> valentin: perhaps, then i get rene wrong when he left our project
17:22:43<praenti> valentin: and i know rene. but i want that he should not take a tone like "rock pissed" even i can understand him in some points
17:23:46<valentin> me too.
17:24:43<daja77> valentin: btw happy birthday even when I am late :)
17:24:45<praenti> valentin: so please forget my the second paragraph in my mail, as i write in there
17:24:50<valentin> he has a personal problem with two or three ppl here. mix with disagreement in technical questions, and you have what was needed...
17:24:58<praenti> ahh. right. Happy BIRTHDAY valentin
17:25:24<valentin> danke
17:25:32<valentin> thanks i mean
17:25:34<daja77> valentin: so he used my bday for release :)
17:25:42<praenti> valentin: i thought that this is not really part of ROCK anymore
17:25:44<valentin> happy birthday daja !
17:25:48<daja77> think we got that :)
17:25:50<daja77> thx
17:26:08<praenti> valentin: but you have said me that this is not right. perhaps you can leave some words on that on the list
17:27:14<valentin> damn, i should stop forwarding mails to rxr :(
17:27:22<valentin> he likes to hit back
17:28:19<praenti> valentin: ... seen that just now.
17:29:25<daja77> oh damn i haven't seen the rest of the flame
17:31:40<praenti> can anyone translate "der klόgere gibt nach"
17:32:21<valentin> :)
17:32:55<praenti> have it
17:33:36<praenti> dict.tu-chemnitz.de was more helpful than dict.leo.org *g*
17:33:53<daja77> i am not surprised that clifford takes that issue as personal as rene does, unfortunately that fight does not help anyone
17:33:59<daja77> :)
17:34:47<praenti> daja77: fully agreed
17:35:37<praenti> ok. new mail from me out :-)
17:35:58<praenti> hoping that this will not result in a flamewar... and hoping that this is not too late
17:36:35<valentin> i'll stop repling to flames, as hard as it is, but that is the only way to stop that war :)
17:37:02<valentin> daja: ack
17:41:13<praenti> perhaps i should go to bed.
17:41:36<daja77> n8 praenti 
17:41:44<valentin> n8
17:41:46<praenti> i'm a little tierd and obtuse. gn8
17:42:01* praenti sleeping
17:42:27<SMP> the only flame in that thread was Rene's announcement in Valentin's first text
17:43:23<SMP> it was offensive, and the T2 team should be proud of their work and not diss other people's work in the announcement
17:43:29<daja77> and the response to clifford
17:43:56<daja77> from 23:11
17:44:57<SMP> nontheless, it was interesting as I did not know T2 existed before. but I would prefer that you not post offensive announcements in the future
17:45:05<netrunner> re
17:45:10<valentin> SMP: ack
17:46:10<daja77> *sigh* i really regret that there was no way of talking on dev meeting or a different occasion
17:47:07* netrunner thinks arguing about the text in the mentioned mail is like arguing about why drunk people ad wies'n behave like they do.
17:48:20* netrunner throwing a big creamy tart at valentin
17:49:02<SMP> I don't care how much Rene or anyone flames ROCK. just keep it off our mailing list please
17:50:45<netrunner> this is somehow like the announcement of ICE on the CORBA mailing list :)
17:51:44<daja77> i won't further comment as everything necessary already has been said
17:55:35* SMP wants a CORBA implementation for PHP
17:57:19<SMP> oh, wait. there's ICE for C# and ICEphp.. hmm :->
17:57:37* netrunner just held his left finger back from the 'r' ...
17:58:13<netrunner> SMP: if you are interested in ICE I can forward you the affected chapters of my bachelors thesis ;) (once they are finished)
17:59:04<SMP> netrunner: huh. what's the topic of that thesis?
18:00:49<netrunner> SMP: classification of networked virtual environments
18:01:02<netrunner> to be finished November 14th
18:01:57<SMP> what the hell are networked virtual environments?
18:05:27ωνω clifford [~clifford@83-64-18-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #rocklinux
18:05:37<netrunner> SMP: you simulate a world using a large distributed network of servers and clients.
18:05:41<clifford> hi people!
18:05:48<netrunner> hi cliffi! :)
18:05:51<daja77> hi clifford 
18:06:02* clifford is frustrated.
18:06:16<daja77> guess i know why
18:06:18<netrunner> SMP: there exist different implementations, earlier they were used for military simulation, nowadays the main application is MMORPGs
18:06:28* netrunner throwing the last piece of tart at clifford
18:06:54<clifford> I just got a mail from rene in which he "offered" my to sell www.rocklinux-consulting.de to me if I don't want him to use the name ROCK Linux for his thing.
18:07:12<netrunner> clifford: that came to rlml.
18:07:13<daja77> that was on the list too ...
18:07:56<netrunner> clifford: I think he didn't want to sell it but he said you can have it if you pay the remaining months he had to pay in advance.
18:07:58<daja77> this is a mail not to reply to imho
18:08:06<clifford> ah' yes - the usual thing.
18:08:18<clifford> rene also added me directly on the to: field.
18:08:28<daja77> yes 
18:08:52<clifford> that causes mailman to not forward the mail to me and so my replies are always not seen on the list..
18:09:16<clifford> .. which is much better this time.
18:09:22<netrunner> ack
18:09:34<daja77> in fact i considered this a private mail which shouldn't have been on the list anyway
18:09:52<netrunner> n8
18:10:04* daja77 gives cookies to clifford 
18:10:36<SMP> don't bother unless they're space-cookies ;p
18:10:49<daja77> hehe
18:11:09<daja77> in fact they would calm him down
18:11:16<netrunner> cat /mnt/c:/My\ Files/Administrator/Local\ Settings/Cookies/*
18:11:27<clifford> usually I wouldn't have problems with space cookies - but right now I have a flu and shound't take any drugs..
18:12:29<clifford> netrunner: you really have a mount point "/mtn/c:" - with the ":" ?!? oh god..  ;-)
18:14:56* daja77 should tyr to sync to rock this week for a new build :)
18:14:57<clifford> .. so: what is it? what am I doing wrong? Frameworks are not ment to be "forked" - that's against their nature..
18:18:11<Ragnar0k> ?
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 05 00:00:25 2004