--- Log opened Sat Oct 09 00:00:29 2004
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03:24:07<blindcod1r> moin
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04:41:47<treo> hi
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05:13:47<SerWou> Hello the Chan
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07:10:19<daja77> not yet ...
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08:31:23<fake> http://www.betavote.com
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08:41:11<mnemoc> moin
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10:11:18<blindcoder> rehi
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13:54:52<treo> und weg ^^
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14:45:51<th> moin
14:49:20<blindcoder> moin th
14:51:22ωνω daja77 [[IEbLaMkfC@odoaker.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #rocklinux
14:52:45<blindcoder> WEE
14:52:55<blindcoder> www.crash-override.net now running on typo3 ^^
15:05:56<th> oh just another refbuild finished
15:56:08<th> *anounce* http://iso.rocklinux.de/rock-ftp/unofficial/fake/
16:04:30<mistik1> have any of your guys built a dietlibc target on a gentoo host
16:06:01<fake> the questions is
16:06:25<fake> "Does any of you guys have a box rendered completely useless by installing gentoo on it?"
16:06:48<fake> the answer, most likely, is: no.
16:06:57<fake> ;)
16:07:18<mistik1> look I need a dietlibc target, I must start somewhere
16:07:28<mistik1> so try not to rag on me for the distro  I run
16:07:47<mistik1> as i'm trying to build rock for crying out loud
16:08:03<fake> i was just amused by your question - don't panic 
16:15:12<mistik1> ok then, what is the best way to go about building a target for myself?
16:15:39<mistik1> I only need a minimal dietlibc build environment
16:16:12* fake tired of going over this *again*
16:16:38<fake> how about you try, look into the docs a little, and ask more specific questions when problems occur?
16:26:46<mistik1> nm
16:35:11<th> mnemoc: ping
16:36:32<mnemoc> th: ponh
16:36:37<th> cool
16:36:50<th> mnemoc: i've some time now to review output from your script
16:37:28<mnemoc> :D
16:37:29<th> mnemoc: would it be easy to use your script to provide a listing, comparing 3 trees?
16:37:47<mnemoc> it's not too hard
16:37:49<mnemoc> mom
16:37:53<th> mnemoc: as in "2.0-stable vs. your tree vs. trunk"
16:38:05<th> mnemoc: perhaps you could provide me just with such a listing
16:40:25<th> some script reading package names from stdin and reporting all trees given on cmdline
16:40:35<th> that would be the magic i'd need right now
16:42:53<th> mnemoc: hmmm i can't update from your repo :-/
16:44:46<mnemoc> give me a second :p
16:45:07<th> oh
16:45:12<th> i've a nice bash one-liner
16:45:25<th> while read pkg ; do grep '^\[[IVD]\]' ROCK-{stable,dev,mnemoc}/package/*/$pkg/*.desc ; echo ;done
16:47:33<mnemoc> http://svn.geeks.cl/rock-2.0-mnemoc/WORK/misc/mnemoc/compare.sh
16:48:06<th> uh thats sorta more than a one-liner ;)
16:49:50<mnemoc> yeah
16:50:19<th> did you miss the commit?
16:50:34<th> or: how do i use that script for what i'm trying to do?
16:51:35<mnemoc> compare source target [-v] [-repostory <repos_on_source>|<packages>|]
16:51:41<mnemoc> empty means all
16:52:12<mnemoc> maybe i have forgoten a commit, that's my stable and the script was added to my -temp2 :p
16:52:23<mnemoc> give me some seconds
16:57:57<th> if [ -d "$source" -a -d "$target" -a $# -ge 1 ]; then
16:58:08<th> repo/packages is mandatory
16:58:26<mnemoc> i have a missing commit and my svn if ill
16:58:31<mnemoc> mom
16:58:34<th> ok
16:58:39* th on standby
16:58:44<mnemoc> # svn up
16:58:45<mnemoc> svn: Unsupported RA plugin ABI version (2) for ra_dav.
16:58:59<mnemoc> what the _fuck_ does means??
16:59:19<th> you rebuilt apache and did not rebuilt svn?
16:59:30<mnemoc> o_O
16:59:47<mnemoc> # runsvctrl d /service/apache
16:59:55<mnemoc> # runsvctrl d /service/svn/
17:02:39<mistik1> Can someone take a look at this error for me http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8989/147
17:02:40<SerWou> hello guys
17:02:59<SerWou> i have a newbie question 
17:03:56<SerWou> is there someone ?
17:04:00<th> ack
17:04:21<SerWou> i wanted to install a RPM on my RockLinux distro
17:04:25<SerWou> how i can do that ?
17:04:32<th> man rpm
17:04:38<SerWou> well
17:04:39<SerWou> ;)
17:04:51<SerWou> without type rpm -i ...
17:05:13<SerWou> i know rpm2cpio filename.rpm| cpio -id
17:05:16<th> you mean you want to install a RPM without using the rpm utility?
17:05:21<SerWou> yes
17:05:25<SerWou> to make a clean install 
17:05:44<th> SerWou: you want to take a look at mkpkg
17:05:45<SerWou> but the last time i did, a friend helped me 
17:06:03<th> mkpkg my_package "some rpm voodoo"
17:06:11<th> you can use rpm -i for that
17:06:17<SerWou> i want to install vmware
17:06:45<SerWou> ok for rpm
17:06:58<th> put "mkpkg vmware" in front of every command line you give for doing so
17:07:09<th> and check /var/adm/packages/flists/vmware after that
17:07:48<SerWou> why should i do that ?
17:08:11<th> because it creates package meta data for it then
17:08:19<th> so you can remove it later
17:08:23<mnemoc> SerWou: try qemu :p
17:08:26<SerWou> ho ok
17:12:37<SerWou> qemu ?
17:12:42<SerWou> as fast as vmware ?
17:13:07<th> no - but GPLed
17:13:41<th> and hassle-free install ;>
17:15:09<SerWou> vmware is already to slow for me...
17:15:14<SerWou> i'm doing computer graphics
17:15:31<SerWou> Fuck Adobe to not develop Photoshop for Linux
17:15:47<SerWou> Macromedia is making Macromedia suite for Linux ;)
17:16:00<mnemoc> SerWou: try qemu
17:16:21<th> or learn gimp
17:16:27<mnemoc> :D
17:16:27<SerWou> i test out gimp
17:17:05<SerWou> gimp is cool, but i know Photoshop very very well, like we know our firstname ;)
17:18:37<mnemoc> gimp + skencil + blender, all you may need for graphics
17:18:44<SerWou> lol
17:18:47<SerWou> blender
17:19:17<SerWou> i'm doing 3D with 3dsMax and Maya
17:19:28<SerWou> i can't do anything in Blender
17:19:35<mnemoc> no? why?
17:20:48<SerWou> very very strange application
17:21:32<mnemoc> very very powerfull and _light_ application
17:21:55<SerWou> OpenSource application are not allways good
17:22:20<th> nothing is always good
17:23:29<SerWou> i'm the BigBoss of the Biggest DirectConnect Graphic Hub, more then 250 users everydays all around the earth, i meet more than 1000 graphists, and i don't know anyone who user Blender to make a 3D production
17:23:50<SerWou> i only saw one in a Graphic book
17:25:09<mnemoc> if you don't teach (or let learn) new tools, people will keep using the same old fat app they have always used
17:26:39<mnemoc> i only know one designer who desided to learn gimp, and now she loves it
17:27:34<mnemoc> but, yes, it is a challange and learn a new technology is expensive even if the software itself is payed or free
17:27:36<SerWou> it's not a question of new tools, it's a question of good app or not, i want to make good 3D, i'm using XSI or Maya, nothing can be more helpfull then Maya or XSI
17:28:19<th> sounds like someone afraid opening his eyes...
17:28:40<SerWou> ok
17:28:46<SerWou> let's me start blender
17:28:52<SerWou> i've got it on my 3Dworkstation
17:29:02<daja77> re
17:29:05<mnemoc> hi daja77 
17:29:24<SerWou> let's me make a cube
17:31:28<SerWou> Blender is cool to make 3D during the Sunday Afternoon ;)
17:31:47<mnemoc> :)
17:31:55<SerWou> very light app
17:33:27<mnemoc> blender does the 80%? percent of what the fat apps does, but with only 2% of the resources
17:33:42<SerWou> i wonder if Blender can use HDRI, GI, etc...
17:34:27<mnemoc> today, i don't know. tomorrow, take that as granted.
17:34:59<SerWou> Do you have any notions in 3D ? If yes, check out XSI, Houdini and Maya (for Linux)
17:35:34<mnemoc> ok :)
17:36:16<SerWou> I love Opensource application, i'm not a codeur, but for example, i worked to translate the RockLinux handbook to French, i'm using amsn, i translated it to French
17:36:43<SerWou> i'm doing that to thanks people to works for free and make good programs
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17:37:02<mnemoc> i don't deny comercial apps can be de facto standards, well know and plenty of nice features, but they tend to have lower quality
17:37:19<mnemoc> SerWou: :D
17:37:29<SerWou> but say Blender is the best 3d application is a big mistake, Blender is good to start in 3D
17:38:05<mnemoc> blender is a great 3D application, not the best
17:38:22<mnemoc> but it's moving very fast to there
17:39:21<SerWou> well, i don't event know if it's good to start with it, i think it's better to start with real 3D programs to grap functionement of 3d app, and be able to start to use them quickly in a compagny without adaptation time
17:40:10<SerWou> do you know ILM is using GIMP ?
17:40:17<mnemoc> no idea
17:40:27<SerWou> i guess you know ILM
17:40:38<SerWou> a huge SFX Company
17:41:07<SerWou> they don't use Photoshop anymore
17:41:24<SerWou> GIMP is free and can do a part of the Photoshop for free
17:42:27<mnemoc> what do they think about the missing features of gimp?
17:42:53<SerWou> Georges Lucas is the ILM Boss
17:42:57* fake very tempted to use a very very ungeeky and undigital and really very real big hammer on the 'new' ISDN PBAX
17:42:59<mnemoc> i know that parte
17:43:15<mnemoc> fake: go for it :p
17:43:26<mnemoc> SerWou: tell me more about ILM
17:43:48<fake> DAMN FUCKING ISDN PBAX  O F  D E A T H !!!!!!
17:44:04<SerWou> Gimp missing some advanced algorithm to work on image retouch
17:44:22<SerWou> but ILM don't need that, they use GIMP to make textures
17:44:53<SerWou> they bough a lot of 3D Workstation on Linux too
17:45:00<SerWou> that's why they use GIMP
17:45:20<SerWou> but for 3D, they can't use blender ;)
17:45:31<mnemoc> maya?
17:45:34<SerWou> XSI
17:46:00<SerWou> about renders
17:46:35* fake building his own PBAX with blackjack and hookers! and linux! 
17:46:42<SerWou> Brazil, VRay, Final Render, MentalRay, FPrime, Renderman, ....
17:46:51<SerWou> we can't use them with Blender
17:47:09<SerWou> a good render change the life, and help you to make realistic render
17:48:17<SerWou> Modelisation, Animation, Light, Texture and Render
17:48:20<SerWou> 5 steps
17:49:08<fake> http://www.rocklinux.org/
17:49:08ωνω Signoff netrunne1: #rocklinux (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:49:09<fake> btw
17:49:13<fake> (NEWS section)
17:50:05<mnemoc> fake: using shadowfs?
17:50:17<mnemoc> SerWou: continue please, this is interesting
17:50:33<fake> mnemoc: yes.
17:50:47<SerWou> i'm watching Images done in 3D
17:50:53<SerWou> with Blender
17:51:13* daja77 kicking hannes
17:51:16<SerWou> made in 2004
17:51:56<SerWou> to know if Blender can do good images or not
17:54:13<mnemoc> SerWou: haven't your Biggest DirectConnect Graphic Hub thought about sponsoring blender developers to produce realistic rendering on it?
17:54:39<fake> daja77: why?
17:54:56<SerWou> how sponsorised ?
17:55:21<daja77> that man update is screwed
17:55:44<fake> daja77: in what way?
17:56:03<daja77> he updated for a version 1.5o which does not exist
17:56:03<mnemoc> SerWou: that project has great developers, but they need to buy food :)
17:56:12<daja77> there is a 1.5o1 instead
17:57:21<fake> maybe it existed when he updated...
17:57:23<SerWou> i'm not generating money, or just enought to pay the bandwith used by my server
17:57:39<mnemoc> oh :\
17:57:44<SerWou> but mnemoc, i'm creating a Puvlic and Clean website and i made a forum, there is a topic :
17:57:48<SerWou>  3D with Linux / Irix / MaxOS
17:57:48<SerWou> Maya Linux/OSX, XSI Linux, Blender, etc.
17:57:53<SerWou>  ;)
17:58:20<mnemoc> open discussion is always good :D
17:59:08<daja77> fake: i don't know, but it older stuff is still there but this one is not
17:59:43<mnemoc> daja77: i should have had an evil bug :p
18:00:12<daja77> i have no idea
18:00:46<daja77> hm package splitting is strange, it create a man and man-doc package ...
18:00:59<SerWou> mnemoc, do you know an opensource Compositing software ?
18:01:12<daja77> audio?
18:01:42<SerWou> it's for me daja77 ?
18:01:58<daja77> yeah
18:02:02<SerWou> no
18:02:13<daja77> what else then?
18:02:26<SerWou> Compositing = video + 3D
18:02:39<daja77> oh
18:03:12<SerWou> with Color Correction, etc..
18:04:09<daja77> blender can export video iirc, there is kino for video editing and some other programs i can't remember atm
18:04:21ωνω laureano [~laureano5@200-112-158-23.bbt.net.ar] has joined #rocklinux
18:05:04* daja77 reconsidering his vote
18:05:19<laureano> hola
18:05:46<laureano> alguien que escuche a srvΏ?
18:06:06<mnemoc> laureano: en inglιs por favor
18:07:34<laureano> no se ingles!!!!
18:08:18<mnemoc> esta tu problema relacionado de alguna forma a www.rocklinux.org?
18:08:29<laureano> si
18:08:50<laureano> no se que es www.rocklinux.org
18:08:55<mnemoc> click
18:10:27<laureano> es una distribucion linux?
18:10:44<mnemoc> si
18:12:04<SerWou> hola
18:12:11<SerWou> my llamo SerWou
18:12:13<SerWou> me
18:12:16<SerWou> ;)
18:12:20<laureano> jeje
18:12:24<laureano> perdon 
18:12:28<laureano> no sabia-......
18:12:46<mnemoc> antes de hablar en un canal lee el topic
18:12:52<laureano> y en que se diferencia de rocklinux de otras distribuciones.?
18:13:10<mnemoc> www.rocklinux.org -> handbook
18:13:30<SerWou> Rocklinux esta la buena distribucion
18:13:36<SerWou> lol
18:14:00<SerWou> i haven't spoke in espanol since 4 years
18:14:11<mnemoc> :D
18:14:34<mnemoc> SerWou: where are you from?
18:14:49<SerWou> France
18:15:01<SerWou> closed to Spain
18:15:12<SerWou> vivo in Francia laureano
18:15:13<SerWou> ;)
18:16:31<laureano> ok
18:16:54<laureano> but this place is not for me...
18:17:15<laureano> thanks.
18:17:35<laureano> i need a little help with clustering ...........
18:18:10ωνω laureano [~laureano5@200-112-158-23.bbt.net.ar] has left #rocklinux ()
18:18:56<SerWou> too late
18:19:12<SerWou> Clustering for 3D renders ROCKS
18:20:14<daja77> hehe
18:20:17<mnemoc> SerWou: what OS do you use in your machines?
18:21:08<SerWou> on my GraphicWorkstation : Rocklinux
18:21:27<SerWou> on my Net/email/MSN computer : RH8 and gonna switch to RockLinux but i need help
18:21:41<daja77> cool ;)
18:22:11<mnemoc> SerWou: here we are :D
18:23:27<SerWou> well
18:23:33<SerWou> in fact
18:23:40<SerWou> i'm a Linux Newbie
18:23:45<SerWou> i'm not stupid
18:23:56<SerWou> i'm reading a lot of Linux How-Tos
18:24:01<SerWou> but i'm a newbie
18:24:30<SerWou> so, my friend give me a Cdrom with a Rocklinux optimized for my config (the same he's got)
18:24:49<SerWou> so, eveyrythings is ok for my 3DWorkstation
18:24:57<daja77> someone we know?
18:25:02<SerWou> i've got on it a AthlonXP
18:25:10<SerWou> Do you know Bruju ?
18:25:52<daja77> hm not really
18:25:57<SerWou> this man is awesome
18:26:07<SerWou> learning things at the light speed
18:27:37<SerWou> but on my Web computer
18:27:41<SerWou> i'm running a Duron
18:27:47<SerWou> so, i can't use his distro
18:27:58<SerWou> so, i have to compil it from scratch
18:28:03<mnemoc> o you have a /etc/CONFIG there?
18:28:25<SerWou> on the WebComputer ?
18:28:49<mnemoc> on the rock you have form athlon but want for duron
18:29:59<SerWou> a file called CONFIG in /etc ?
18:30:07<mnemoc> a dir
18:30:17<SerWou> no
18:30:25<mnemoc> i mean ROCK-CONFIG
18:30:31<daja77> athlon optimzed stuff does not run on duron?
18:31:18<SerWou> 2sec phone
18:31:23<mnemoc> SerWou: and cat /etc/ROCK-VERSION
18:33:39<SerWou> no
18:34:00<SerWou> the Athlon stuf doesn't work on the Duron
18:34:14<SerWou> i have a /etc/ROCK-CONFIG
18:34:52<SerWou> the cat result : RockLinix 2.0.1 (2004/03/21)
18:35:14<mnemoc> what linux do you have on that duron?
18:35:22<SerWou> humm
18:35:56<SerWou> something like RH9 brand new, i haven't do anything on it, just installed it to compile sources for Rock
18:37:05<SerWou> and here, i'm on a third computer : P3-500 on RH8 ;)
18:37:17<SerWou> but Rock Rocks, so, stop RH ;)
18:37:51<SerWou> i know i have to make a config file to download and compile sources
18:38:03<SerWou> but i don't know how to do it, where to do it
18:38:15<SerWou> i only know all applications i need on this box ;)
18:38:27<mnemoc> checkout last ROCK-2.0-stable
18:38:52<mnemoc> copy your /etc/ROCK-CONFING as ./config/default on the checked out tree
18:38:52<daja77> O_o 2.6.8.1 compiling fails with a simple parse error in processor.c *scratchinghead*
18:39:00<mnemoc> daja77: uhm
18:39:21<mnemoc> SerWou: on the redhat
18:39:37<mnemoc> SerWou: (duron), checkout last ROCK-2.0-stable
18:39:45<daja77> drivers/acpi/processor.c: In function `acpi_processor_errata_piix4':
18:39:45<daja77> drivers/acpi/processor.c:215: error: `PCI_ANY_ID' undeclared (first use in this
18:39:49<daja77> function)
18:40:04<mnemoc> SerWou: then copy athlon's /etc/ROCK-CONFING as ./config/default
18:40:16<SerWou> wait
18:41:03<SerWou> ROCK-2.0-stable : where can i find it ?
18:41:04<mnemoc> daja77: o_O
18:41:11<SerWou> on the rocklinux website i guess
18:41:49<daja77> mnemoc: exactly my thought
18:42:00<mnemoc> SerWou: svn co http://www.rocklinux.net/rock-linux/branches/2.0-stable/
18:43:01<SerWou> By the way, a guy here told me, but i don't who, so i told you that again : if you need a Graphist guy, to make a website or other Graphic stuff, i can help you
18:43:39<daja77> SerWou: desktop backgrounds and stuff would be cool
18:44:14<SerWou> I don't know to create Stuff ;)
18:44:39<daja77> well some nice banners e.g.
18:44:39<SerWou> Desktop Backgrounds is ok
18:44:40<mnemoc> SerWou: a logo would be nice too :=
18:44:44<SerWou> damned
18:44:46<daja77> yep
18:44:46<SerWou> a logo
18:44:53<SerWou> i'm trying to make one for a company
18:44:55<mnemoc> rock's logo stinks
18:44:58<mnemoc> hehehe
18:45:42* mnemoc wanted a dwarf esculping a tux, and michelangelo's unfinish scultures :D
18:45:48<SerWou> if you have ideas, tell me
18:45:50* mnemoc wanted a dwarf esculping a tux, like michelangelo's unfinish scultures :D
18:46:14<SerWou> i'm still a student, learning how to become a Multi-Media Project Manager ;)
18:46:27<mnemoc> hehe
18:46:45<daja77> well you asked for work ...
18:47:03<SerWou> Everything is possible
18:47:06<SerWou> but actually
18:47:09<SerWou> i'm SICK
18:47:16<mnemoc> then you have time :p
18:47:29<SerWou> i'm still in tmp computers since 6 months
18:47:34<SerWou> since March
18:47:44<SerWou> because i'm learning Linux
18:47:55<SerWou> i have to setup this Duron Box
18:48:05<SerWou> install all Apps
18:48:20<SerWou> configure IPTABLES and install my USB Modem
18:48:30<mnemoc> SerWou: grep TARGET /etc/ROCK-CONFIG/config
18:48:52<SerWou> after, finish to install Applications on my 3D workstation, and i will be ready to work
18:48:57<SerWou> mnemoc
18:49:01<SerWou> are you around tomorrow ?
18:49:09<mnemoc> o_O
18:49:16<daja77> *gg*
18:49:17<mnemoc> mm...
18:49:24<mnemoc> not so sure
18:49:32<SerWou> because i have to go now
18:49:33<mnemoc> i have visits
18:49:44<SerWou> it's 0:45am here
18:49:44<daja77> fake: around?
18:49:48<mnemoc> i_'ll_ have visits
18:49:55<SerWou> my girlfriend is waiting for me ;)
18:49:57<mnemoc> [18:49:44] <SerWou> it's 0:45am here
18:50:04<daja77> SerWou: hehe 0:50am if your clock works right ^^
18:50:06<SerWou> LOL
18:50:07<mnemoc> SerWou: weren't you ill?
18:51:05<SerWou> ill of not have working and functionnal Pcs
18:51:20<SerWou> i'm French, that's why my English is not so perfect
18:51:26<SerWou> Where do you come from guys ?
18:51:39<daja77> <- germany
18:52:22<SerWou> mnemoc, i bet you come from USA
18:52:26<SerWou> around LA 
18:52:32<SerWou> ?
18:52:41<daja77> lol no he is from chile
18:52:46<mnemoc> me??
18:52:52<SerWou> no
18:52:58<SerWou> around Washington
18:53:07<mnemoc> same continent but on the bottom
18:53:26<SerWou> shout
18:53:28<SerWou> shoot
18:53:41<SerWou> and the anwser is ??
18:53:47<daja77> the end of the world 
18:53:56<mnemoc> Chile
18:54:13<daja77> yep that's what I said :(
18:54:15<daja77> :)
18:54:30<mnemoc> [18:52:41] <daja77> lol no he is from chile
18:55:03<daja77> ?
18:55:23<SerWou> lol
18:55:25<SerWou> nice
18:55:28<mnemoc> i am confirming you said i'm from chile :D
18:55:36<daja77> :)
18:56:15<SerWou> ok
18:56:17<SerWou> see you guys
18:56:28* SerWou is away: I will be back soon
18:56:47<mnemoc> cu SerWou 
18:57:10<SerWou> See you
18:57:11<SerWou> and thanks
18:57:33<mnemoc> you are welcome
19:07:33<daja77> guess i found the sm patch which broke the kernel
19:09:10<mnemoc> who sent it??
19:09:12<mnemoc> who
19:10:10ωνω Signoff tcr_: #rocklinux (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:10:13<daja77> i think it was fake's commenting sth out of a header file which is now rediffed by stf, but i am still unsure
19:28:50<daja77> nice the acpi processor module now built, time to go to bed
19:33:55* mnemoc thinking in a CIA client for submaster
19:40:51<daja77> that would rock
20:03:54<mistik1> ok, I'm at a loss here. 
20:04:18<mnemoc> mistik1: ?
20:04:32<mistik1> I have read the docs et al and have done what the docs say I need to do to build a dietlibc target...
20:04:46<mistik1> Yet I cannot get paste building gcc
20:05:28<mistik1> past even
20:05:59<mistik1> this is the errors I get here
20:06:00<mistik1> http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8989/148
20:06:26<mistik1> can you posibly give me some insight on the problem here
20:12:03<mnemoc> mistik1: ./scripts/Create-ErrList
20:12:38<mnemoc> uhm... i have to go... bbl
22:01:34ωνω blindcod1r [~blindcode@p50801D04.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #rocklinux
22:18:08ωνω Signoff blindcoder: #rocklinux (Read error: 238 (Connection timed out))
--- Log closed Sun Oct 10 01:00:31 2004