[00:07] <mnemoc> is subwiki a good wiki?
[00:08] <daja77> no idea
[00:10] <mnemoc> i have to install a simple wiki, but i want one usable and not problematic
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[02:55] <mnemoc> # time svn diff -r3805:3806
[02:55] <mnemoc> svn: REPORT request failed on '/svn/rock-linux/!svn/vcc/default'
[02:55] <mnemoc> svn: REPORT of '/svn/rock-linux/!svn/vcc/default': timed out waiting for server (http://www.rocklinux.net)
[02:55] <mnemoc> real    60m6.492s
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[08:50] Nick change: netrunne1 -> netrunner
[09:26] <blindcoder> moin
[09:27] <netrunner> moin, 2
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[10:27] <blindcoder> moin esden 
[10:27] <esden> moin
[10:27] <esden> *yawn*
[11:25] <fake> moin
[11:25] Action: fake @ new workplace
[11:27] <blindcoder> moin fake 
[11:27] <blindcoder> greetings to Vienna :)
[11:32] <netrunner> fake: hey, where do you work now?
[11:58] <owl> moin *yaaawn*
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[12:18] <fake> netrunner: www.hpc.at
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[12:24] <fake> netrunner: www.hpc.at
[12:26] <th> mnemoc: ping
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[12:50] <daja77> hi fake
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[12:54] Nick change: BoS -> BoS^work
[13:05] <th> blindcoder: could you please help me with some layout in http://scavenger.homeip.net/rockdoc/RescueSystem ?
[13:06] <th> is target/xyz/pkg_PACKAGE.conf appended to the packages conf or does it replace the config?
[13:06] <blindcoder> th: let me check
[13:06] <blindcoder> appended
[13:06] <blindcoder> oh
[13:06] <blindcoder> hmm
[13:06] <blindcoder> replaced
[13:07] <fake> appended!
[13:07] <th> 2:1?
[13:07] <th> target/bootdisk/pkg_wget.conf:
[13:07] <fake> see target/livecd/pkg_linux.conf
[13:07] <th> [ -e $confdir/$pkg.conf ] && . $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:07] <th> var_append confopt " " "--without-ssl --disable-opie --disable-digest"
[13:08] <fake> it would be bad to replace the original linux.conf...
[13:08] <th> [ -e $confdir/$pkg.conf ] && . $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:08] <th> that line is in pkg_linux.conf
[13:08] <th> i guess that includes the original one?
[13:08] <blindcoder> fake: target/bla/pkg_*.conf replaces the original
[13:08] <fake> okay...
[13:08] <fake> [ -e $confdir/$pkg.conf ] && . $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:08] <blindcoder> fake: package/bla/blubb/pkg_*_post.conf is appended
[13:08] <th> [ -e $confdir/$pkg.conf ] && . $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:08] <th> (just to paste it ones again)
[13:09] <fake> [ -e $confdir/$pkg.conf ] && . $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:09] <fake> and again ;)
[13:09] <fake> oookay...
[13:09] <th> thanks
[13:09] <blindcoder> th: fixed
[13:09] <th> blindcoder: thanks
[13:09] <th> blindcoder: what is the svn url for it?
[13:10] <blindcoder> th: see http://scavenger.homeip.net/rockdoc/EditingFiles
[13:10] <blindcoder> th: svn://scavenger.homeip.net/rockdoc-subwiki/
[13:10] <th> blindcoder: btw. you implemented diffing. i'm at the "RecentChanges" and have no way to inspect a single change for it's diff
[13:11] <blindcoder> th: you mean you want a link to the diff view?
[13:11] <th> yea
[13:11] <th> just to be able to view the diff of a change
[13:12] <th> that would be cool
[13:12] <blindcoder> just a moment...
[13:19] <blindcoder> th: done
[13:30] <th> blindcoder: great! thanks
[13:34] <th> wrt to variable listing in http://scavenger.homeip.net/rockdoc/AdvancedPackageCreation
[13:34] <th>  confdir:  directory containing the package build configuration (rock-src/package/...)
[13:35] <th> so that is package/repo/PACKAGE/
[13:35] <th> so that i can use $confdir/$pkg.conf
[13:35] <th>  targetdir:  directory containing the target configuration (rock-src/target/...)
[13:35] <th> i think we should be more precise here?
[13:35] <th> because in the first case "..." is repo/pkg
[13:36] <th> in the 2nd it is just target
[13:36] <fake> th: i copied those descriptions from Documentation/Developer/PKG-something
[13:36] <th> so it should be changed there?
[13:36] <fake> it should be changed in both locations
[13:36] <fake> *should*
[13:39] <netrunner> http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/securityfocus/bugtraq/2005-01/0070.html
[13:39] <netrunner> or german: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/54936
[13:40] <netrunner> could anybody please try and send these patches?
[13:56] <blindcoder> okay, I don't understand my code anymore, but I was able to improve it :D
[14:07] <daja77> re
[14:15] <mnemoc> th: pong
[14:19] <th> mnemoc: i was just confused as i tried some target specific busybox config's
[14:20] <mnemoc> th: still confused?
[14:20] <th> mnemoc: i need to put X CONFIG_IP into the conffiles rules
[14:20] <th> mnemoc: no. resolved.
[14:20] <th> mnemoc: you said it would be X IP
[14:20] <mnemoc> oh
[14:20] <th> but it works with CONFIG_IP now
[14:20] <mnemoc> i thought i was appending that prefix
[14:20] <mnemoc> inserting*
[14:21] Action: th now inserts tftp client into bb for rescue stage1
[14:21] <th> so stage2 can be retrieved by tftp
[14:23] <netrunner> th: is there any reason not to mount the pre-system to the /boot of the real system? it's a bit confusing for kernel upgrades, and the /boot of the productive isn't usable anyway ...
[14:24] <th> netrunner: in fact it's mounted to /mnt/boot
[14:24] <th> readonly
[14:24] <netrunner> th: may I further suggest adding an option to Create-ISO to include a rescue build and an option for stone to automatically do all the stuff with the pre-system if the root is lvm?
[14:24] <th> i did not want to touch the /boot
[14:24] <netrunner> th: yes. but the /boot is unusable anyway ...
[14:24] <th> which is still usable to install grub somewhere
[14:25] <th> i never used Create-ISO with the rescue target.
[14:25] Action: netrunner did. 
[14:25] <th> you got a bootable cd by that?
[14:26] <netrunner> oh - no. I downloaded the cd, you're right ;)
[14:26] <th> i wrote two scripts. each creating a bootable cd. one with isolinux and one with fd-emu+grub
[14:26] <th> both are VERY easy to use.
[14:27] <netrunner> th: I think rescue target should also be usable with Create-ISO. otherwise we end up with multiple scripts for iso creation, that's uncool.
[14:27] <th> netrunner: can go into some detail wrt "do all the stuff with the pre-system"?
[14:27] <netrunner> th: everything documented in RootOnLVM
[14:27] <th> netrunner: you are free to contribute a change to Create-ISO to _use_ the mkisolinux.sh script
[14:28] <netrunner> th: copying the kernel, initrd and system.tar.bz2, adjusting menu.lst
[14:28] <th> netrunner: i want to have rescue target as stand-alone as possible. for that reason i have created the contrib/ directory which contains everything you need to create your bootable iso (the mkisolinux.sh script)
[14:29] <th> netrunner: and that's by design.,
[14:29] <th> netrunner: but we can write a contrib/ script to do the setup stuff and _use_ that in stone.
[14:29] Action: netrunner fantasizes about a Create-ISO which you cann customize using hooks ...
[14:29] <th> i don't want redundant code for that
[14:29] <th> nor for the cd creation
[14:29] <th> and i _want_ to have it separatly for that rescue target. to be independant
[14:30] <th> so either way - the first step would be to write a script which does the pre-system-setup
[14:30] <netrunner> th: the next target comes with a copy of the package/ direcotry "to be independent"?
[14:31] <th> netrunner: being independent is unique to a rescue target.
[14:31] <th> netrunner: you should need as few as possible to get it up and running.
[14:32] <th> netrunner: you only need the mkisolinux.sh script and the distributed components (initrd.gz and system.tar.bz2) for getting a complete bootable rescue system
[14:33] <th> and the kernel is still customizable.
[14:34] <th> netrunner: and i assume Create-ISO is not capable of creating the iso as it would be needed (with special kernel params)
[14:34] <blindcoder> th: IIRC it is capable of that
[14:34] <th> blindcoder: Create-ISO can create special purpose kernel params?
[14:35] <th> blindcoder: how does it know what they are called?
[14:35] <blindcoder> th: Create-ISO uses isolinux which can
[14:35] <netrunner> th: these are taken from the syslinux config file, no?
[14:35] <th> netrunner: yes
[14:35] <netrunner> oeh, isolinux I mean.
[14:36] <netrunner> th: I don't want to offend you in this :) I just want to point out that this is redundant code, and as you said yourself that is not good.
[14:37] <th> netrunner: and still i believe that we would miss key features of mkisolinux.sh if we go for Create-ISO
[14:37] <th> netrunner: but please try.
[14:37] <netrunner> th: I'll take a look when I am at home.
[14:37] <blindcoder> th: what are those key-features?
[14:38] <th> blindcoder: e.g. creation of iso image in two steps: 1) preparation of the directories 2) creation of image
[14:38] <th> blindcoder: which enables the user to put in additional files in "1.5)"
[14:39] <blindcoder> for what purpose would a user do that?
[14:39] <th> e.g. to add some other scripts to the rescue media?
[14:39] <th> to add a rescue-overlay-set to the media?
[14:40] <th> to add additional kernel images to the media?
[14:40] <th> to add additional (non distributable) memdisk images to the media?
[14:41] <blindcoder> so in short to do things he could also do by changing the target/rescue/* code?
[14:41] <th> which would be much more complicated.
[14:41] <blindcoder> as I understand it, you distribute the iso files, anyway, no?
[14:41] <th> target/rescue/* code does not provide a kernel to be used by the rescue system
[14:42] <th> blindcoder: sometimes.
[14:42] <blindcoder> it does not provide a kernel?
[14:42] <th> blindcoder: i prefer to distribute the components (system.tar.bz2 and initrd.gz and sometimes a kernel)
[14:42] <th> blindcoder: no.
[14:42] <blindcoder> that's a bug in my book
[14:42] <blindcoder> because it renders the whole thing unusable
[14:42] <th> hey - i use it. so it's not unusable. q.e.d.
[14:43] <blindcoder> how can you use it without a kernel?
[14:43] <th> to explain that you must understand what you mean by "it"
[14:43] <th> we are talking of "ROCK Linux advanced rescue system in a tar"
[14:43] <th> it's a tar of a rescue userspace
[14:44] <th> and it provides some addtions:
[14:44] <th> initrd.gz to bootstrap that userspace
[14:44] <th> contrib-scripts that allow to assemble a bootable cd including kernel
[14:44] <netrunner> hm.
[14:44] <th> (by building the kernel manually)
[14:45] <netrunner> so I think create-iso should handle the rescue thing as another boot option.
[14:45] <blindcoder> so, when I want to create an iso from it, the script first downloads and builds a kernel?
[14:45] <th> you can create a "out-of-the-box rescue target" which uses that target.
[14:45] <netrunner> so e.g. Create-Iso blubb bootdisk rescue mybuild
[14:45] <th> blindcoder: < th> (by building the kernel manually)
[14:45] <th> blindcoder: just have a look at the mkisolinux.sh usage
[14:46] <th> blindcoder: do: sh ./target/rescue/contrib/mkisolinux.sh
[14:46] <netrunner> th: the help is confusing. I didn't understand that _I_ have to supply the kernel and initrd and so on.
[14:46] <th> Example usage (most commonly used):
[14:46] <th> (You get an iso image with default configuration and given files.)
[14:46] <th> ./target/rescue/contrib/mkisolinux.sh -C vmlinuz initrd.img system.tar.bz2
[14:46] <netrunner> th: that's what I usually want the target to build for me.
[14:47] <th> isn't that pretty clear?
[14:47] <netrunner> th: and ... what is the difference between -c and -C?
[14:47] <th> as the usage says: "-c creates iso-dir" and "-C creates the iso image from kernel, initrd and syDstem tarball"
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[14:47] <th> and:
[14:48] <th> Using the -C option is like using the -c option except that after creating
[14:48] <th> the temporary iso-dir the script calls itself to create the image from that
[14:48] <th> dir (first usage option). The iso-dir is deleted on success afterwards.
[14:48] <blindcoder> th: so I can just do mkisolinux -c /boot/vmlinuz supplied_initrd.gz supplied_system.tar.gz ?
[14:48] <th> blindcoder: yes - if you first apply s/-c/-C/
[14:49] <th> and you will be given an iso image (bootable)
[14:49] <blindcoder> th: so your initrd will have support for my running kernel?
[14:49] <th> blindcoder: refer to the usage:
[14:49] <th> * initrd.img and system.tar.bz2 are generated during the rescue-target build.
[14:49] <th> * kernel must have support for devfs
[14:49] <th> * kernel must have support for initrd
[14:49] <th> * kernel must have support for iso9660
[14:49] <th> and then: yes.
[14:49] <th> but i don't quite understand what you mean by "will have support for my running kernel"
[14:49] <blindcoder> okay, I have a 2.4 and a 2.6 kernel, will both work?
[14:50] <th> yes.
[14:50] <blindcoder> so you're not loading any modules in the initrd?
[14:50] <th> no.
[14:50] <th> perhaps i should add a line...
[14:51] <blindcoder> I think you should add a whole lot of lines :-)
[14:51] <th> * initrd will not load any modules. kernel must be compiled with all filesystems and stuff you need.
[14:51] <blindcoder> I now understand that this isn't your average works-out-of-the-box-on-most-anything-rescuesystem
[14:52] <th> blindcoder: well. you just need to build a big-fat-monolithic kernel (or grab the one i distributed)
[14:52] <th> blindcoder: then use mkisolinux.sh -C with that kernel.
[14:52] <th> blindcoder: and you will be given a works-out-of-the-box-on-most-anything-rescuesystem
[14:52] <blindcoder> and that's how I feel it should be
[14:53] <blindcoder> If I install something, I don't want to tweak around on it.
[14:53] <blindcoder> Say, I want to install that  rescue system
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[14:53] <blindcoder> then I see that I have to compile a kernel for it because it doesn't come with one
[14:54] <blindcoder> then I'd immediately feel a lot less enthusiastic about it
[14:56] <th> hey - we are doing a DBK!
[14:56] <th> but you can still grab the ready-to-go iso from donwload
[14:56] <blindcoder> yes, but what comes out at the end should be usable immediately, I think
[14:57] <blindcoder> my LVP is also usable immediately (even on *BSD and Cygwin sans the encryption)
[14:57] <th> why should the rescue target care about configuring the kernel?
[14:57] <th> kernel comes with a sweet menuconfig for that
[14:57] <th> why reimplement configuring here?
[14:57] <blindcoder> th: by the same argumentation you could say: why should we care about loading modules automatically at boot-up? let the user manually load them
[14:58] <fake> in fact, that's what we do
[14:59] <th> actually that's what i do
[14:59] <netrunner> :)
[14:59] <fake> we ship rock/hotplug, programs that load modules
[14:59] <th> and i ship a contrib script to create stuff
[14:59] <blindcoder> fake: each time after I installed a system the modules loaded automatically. Magic?
[15:00] <fake> blindcoder: rockplug
[15:00] <th> blindcoder: and i hate that. the first thing i do is to disable that "magic"
[15:00] <blindcoder> fake: see, so we _do_ care about automatic module loading
[15:00] <blindcoder> otherwise we could just rm -rf package/*/{rock,hot}plug
[15:00] <fake> blindcoder: we don't care about it, rockplug (now hotplug) cares about it
[15:00] <fake> we just ship those as an option
[15:01] <fake> and assume that *if* they are in the package selection, it might be appropriate to switch one of them on by default
[15:01] <fake> but they are by no means necessary
[15:01] <blindcoder> fake: disabling them in non-highly-specialised systems doesn't make sense at all
[15:02] <th> oh yes it does.
[15:02] <th> for those of us who are afraid of magic ;)
[15:03] <blindcoder> I really don't get why you'd be
[15:04] <blindcoder> personally, I don't like manually loading the modules each and every startup
[15:04] <blindcoder> plugin an usb-stick, load [eou]hci, usb-storage, sd_mod
[15:04] <blindcoder> remove it, unload them again
[15:04] <th> i don't do that either. i put them in /etc/conf/kernel
[15:05] <netrunner> fake: what is the reason for switching back to hotplug? I thought rockplug was far better, cleaner designed and so on?
[15:08] <th> i guess the bof video answers that. 
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[15:08] <th> i don't remember the details.
[15:09] <blindcoder> something about being unmaintained
[15:09] <mnemoc> blindcoder!
[15:09] <blindcoder> mnemoc?
[15:09] <mnemoc> do you know how to configure subwiki as 'multiinstance'?
[15:09] <th> blindcoder: there was something important missing
[15:09] <blindcoder> mnemoc: not yet, why?
[15:10] <fake> udev support
[15:10] <th> aye
[15:11] <mnemoc> blindcoder: i don't like to 'install' dev stuff, i like to use those directly from a working copy
[15:11] <mnemoc> blindcoder: i'll try kwiki
[15:12] <blindcoder> somehow I'm not really getting your train of thought, but okay :)
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[15:18] <blindcoder> mnemoc: okay, I guess I know how to do vwikis with subwiki
[15:19] <mnemoc> yes?
[15:20] <blindcoder> mnemoc: just a guess, but still :)
[15:22] <blindcoder> mnemoc: in subwiki.conf theres a part called [vwikis]
[15:22] <mnemoc> aha
[15:23] <blindcoder> mnemoc: I'm currently wading through config.py trying to understand the synta
[15:23] <blindcoder> x
[15:23] Action: mnemoc hates python
[15:23] <daja77> hehe me too
[15:24] <mnemoc> hi daja77 
[15:24] <daja77> hi mnemoc 
[15:24] <blindcoder> well, I've understood all but how to give the vwiki a name :/
[15:24] <mnemoc> hehe
[15:35] Action: th loves python.
[15:35] <daja77> O_o
[15:36] <blindcoder> hmm
[15:36] <blindcoder> the config.py is buggf
[15:36] <blindcoder> buggy
[15:36] <blindcoder> now it works :)
[15:37] <blindcoder> hmm
[15:37] <blindcoder> you can also do something like:
[15:38] <blindcoder> http://host/path/to/subwiki/VWIKI/bla
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[16:02] <netrunner> hm. in amiland they have not many holidays ...
[16:02] <netrunner> about less then half of what we get.
[16:43] <treo> amiland?
[16:43] <treo> you mean usa?
[16:47] <netrunner> jup
[17:12] <th> netrunner: aehm. you send the busybox update to sm too?
[17:13] <th> just 17 minutes before me.
[17:13] <th> and then you voted for my version?
[17:13] <th> HA
[17:14] <th> you made a mistake
[17:14] <daja77> *gg*
[17:16] <th> ahh you discarded your version before you voted.
[17:16] <th> i see
[17:18] <netrunner> th: I only saw later that you forgot the cksum. and there is no option to un-discard :)
[17:19] <th> netrunner: so you did not notice your mistake?
[17:19] <th> netrunner: while doing s/=/!=/ you missed to do s/0/1/
[17:19] <th> i'll discard my version if you rediff ;)
[17:23] <netrunner> Patch 2005_01_1017231115812 added.
[17:26] <th> thx
[17:29] Action: fake bbl
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[18:36] <SerWou> Hello the Chan
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[20:23] <owl> re
[20:50] <netrunner> re.
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[21:36] esden_ (~esden@p50804CB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #rocklinux.
[21:36] esden (~esden@p50804CB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[23:06] <treo> gn8 @ all
[23:07] treo (~xfman@Dbb77.d.pppool.de) left irc: "safe the Planet, kill yourself"
[00:00] --- Tue Jan 11 2005