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[01:46] <rolla> re
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[07:24] <netrunner> lynx is dangerous http://www.boingboing.net/2005/01/27/jailed_for_using_a_n.html
[08:02] <blindcoder> moin
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[08:22] <madtux> re
[08:30] <netrunner> hi maddy
[08:31] <netrunner> madtux: isn't it night for you now?
[08:31] <madtux> hi netty... errr.. its only 1:30am
[08:32] <madtux> i normaly go to bed around 3 or 4
[08:39] <netrunner> oh. much better than that gui in otherchan, he begs everyone a good night around 9am :)
[08:39] <netrunner> (out TZ)
[08:40] <madtux> hahaha
[08:40] <netrunner> you don't happen to know how to start qemu remote so I get the serial console?
[08:41] <madtux> qemu? no sorry.
[08:43] <netrunner> hm never mind :)
[08:44] <madtux> ok.
[08:44] <netrunner> ah, -nographic
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[09:02] <netrunner> http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=5&langId=-3&catalogId=10101&productId=42690
[09:04] <blindcoder> about as good as the name "KLON" for a food store
[10:13] <[anders]> bah, missed madtux again
[10:14] <fake> moin
[10:18] <netrunner> is there anything to say against adding a line for tts/0 in inittab?
[10:19] <fake> yes. there may be no tts/0.
[10:19] <fake> or there may be a modem hooked up.
[10:19] <fake> you just need to remove a comment the way it is now.
[10:20] <netrunner> ok. is /dev/cosole automatically on serial or if not existent on first virtual console?
[10:21] <fake>  /dev/console is what the kernel uses as console during bootup
[10:21] <blindcoder> netrunner: depends
[10:21] <blindcoder> console=ttyS0 console=tty0 console on tty0
[10:21] Action: netrunner just modified the bootdisk to work on serial 
[10:21] <fake> (i.e. if you pass console=/dev/ttyS0,9660 it will be the serial port)
[10:21] <blindcoder> console=tty0 console=ttyS0 console on ttyS0
[10:21] <netrunner> ok. so it depends on the bootparams. that's fine with me :)
[10:22] <fake> blindcoder: you could just passit once...\
[10:22] <blindcoder> netrunner: heh, so you have re-done my to-be-sent patch :)
[10:22] <blindcoder> fake: I'm not fine with that
[10:22] <blindcoder> actually, passing it on both doesn't hurt
[10:22] <blindcoder> and with "auto" then starting a console on tts/0 if it exists doesn't hurt either
[10:22] <fake> blindcoder: but why? there can be only one device.. ?
[10:23] <blindcoder> fake: installing via serial line as I've done here due to lack of a video card?
[10:23] <fake> but if a mouse or some other device is connected, i'd be pretty pissed
[10:23] <fake> blindcoder: then console=ttyS0 does suffice
[10:23] <blindcoder> fake: do we use gpm in bootdisk?
[10:23] <netrunner> what is console if unset? tty0?
[10:23] <blindcoder> fake: so we would need two bootdisks? one for serial and one for non-serial?
[10:23] <blindcoder> netrunner: yes
[10:23] <netrunner> something else: my boot hangs on this line, what does it do? 
[10:23] <netrunner> exec > /dev/console 2>&1 < /dev/console
[10:23] <fake> netrunner: whatever the kernel choooses
[10:24] <fake> netrunner: depends on architecure you're on
[10:24] <netrunner> fake: ok. so we could add "console" to the consoles our bootdisk initrc uses and we're fine.
[10:24] <fake> it re-routes in- and output to /dev/console
[10:24] <netrunner> fake: after that, I don't se anything any more. it happens in qemu
[10:24] <fake> netrunner: our bootdisk doesn't use sysvinit
[10:25] <fake> our bootdisk uses /dev/console all by itself
[10:25] <fake> and it already works with serial consoles
[10:25] <fake> i installed the sun fire v100 from hannes that way
[10:25] <blindcoder> well, on my pc I had no console on serial
[10:25] <fake> you just have to enter 'tts/0' one time, and then you get asked for the baud rate
[10:26] <blindcoder> a) because console on serial wasn't there (now it is)
[10:26] <blindcoder> b) console=ttyS0 was not given
[10:26] <blindcoder> so I wonder how you did it with the standard bootdisk
[10:26] <fake> blindcoder: of course you have to pass that by hand on a peecee.
[10:26] <blindcoder> fake: and that's what we're talking about, no?
[10:26] <fake> blindcoder: a sparc kernel without serial console is a no-no
[10:26] <netrunner> fake: ok. so would you agree to adding "serial 0" as first line of isolinux.cfg, so we cann modify boot parameters on startup?
[10:26] <blindcoder> having a console on serial on a pc
[10:27] <fake> blindcoder: how much sense would such an offered option make? if i want to install via serial terminal, i should damn well know what i want to do.
[10:27] <fake> it's confusing and cluttering the menu
[10:27] <blindcoder> fake: if you boot with auto you don't even notice
[10:28] <netrunner> blindcoder: yes, but as fake said what happens if there is a modem or mouse?
[10:28] <blindcoder> we don't use either one with bootdisk
[10:28] <fake> blindcoder: there *IS* no inittab in the bootdisk!!
[10:28] <blindcoder> fake: i _know_
[10:28] <blindcoder> fake: I never said _anything_ about inittab
[10:28] <blindcoder> so please stop shouting at me
[10:28] <fake> we can't assume there's a serial console. period.
[10:28] <blindcoder> [ -e /dev/tts/0 ]
[10:29] <fake> imagine the following: another server connected to the serial console, a sparc.
[10:29] <fake> itself using a serial console.
[10:29] <netrunner> they'll have a nice chat :)
[10:29] <fake> that's not uncommon. i have that setup. now when i start the bootdisk and it presents the sparc console with another consle, only god knows what will happen.
[10:30] <blindcoder> sure it's not uncommon. but if you install by EIS (as you should) then that connection does not exist
[10:30] <fake> and i'd personally seek and destroy the persone that forbids me to do this setup, just so i don't have to enter 'tts/0' one time (and console=ttyS0 on the kernel command line)
[10:30] <fake> sparc as in 'sparc running linux'
[10:30] <netrunner> fake: ok, again. adding "serial 0" should not hurt isolinux, and does not affect sparc anyway, no?
[10:30] <blindcoder> fake: but how do you enter that with no HID attached?
[10:31] <blindcoder> and we're not talking sparc-only here
[10:31] <fake> netrunner: what exactly does that option do?
[10:31] <netrunner> fake: display the isolinux boot menu also on the first serial console
[10:31] <fake> blindcoder: good bioses support booting to serial console
[10:32] <blindcoder> fake: and everyone is using "good bioses"
[10:32] <fake> netrunner: same problem !
[10:32] <fake> blindcoder: i didn't say that/
[10:32] <fake> blindcoder: but nobody expects that functionality 
[10:32] <blindcoder> fake: so what is your comment? line-filler?
[10:32] <netrunner> fake: config option?
[10:32] <blindcoder> well, I do.
[10:33] <fake> netrunner: huh?
[10:33] <blindcoder> when I tried to install my new machine I expected a console on serial
[10:33] <blindcoder> since no graphic card or HID was attached
[10:33] <netrunner> fake: I mean - make it an option for scripts/Config?
[10:33] <fake> blindcoder: your x86 peecee, wich does not support using the bios on serial console - that should be a hint - can't be configure without a grafic card
[10:33] <fake> netrunner: if you like ;)
[10:34] <fake> and a keyboard, for that matter.
[10:34] <netrunner> fake: thing is, current bootdisk does not ask anything on the serial console. so I am not asked the question which terminals I want to use.
[10:34] <blindcoder> fake: imagine, the bios was configured a few months ago
[10:34] <netrunner> fake: so I cannot type it in :)
[10:34] <fake> netrunner: pass console=ttyS0 to the kernel, then it should work?
[10:34] <netrunner> fake: where? :)
[10:34] <blindcoder> I just recently got the hard disk
[10:34] <netrunner> fake: if I don't get the boot menu ...
[10:35] <fake> blindcoder: but clearly, the manufacturer already ruled out your possibility to really use and maintain the machine without a keyboard and a monitor attached.
[10:35] <fake> netrunner: if your bios doesn't support showing it on serial console, that's a hardware selection problem...
[10:35] <blindcoder> which can easily be worked around
[10:36] <netrunner> fake: how do you enable that without a keyboard ? :)
[10:36] <fake> yes. but supporting 'work aroungs' is surely not a nice thing to do for a dbk
[10:36] <blindcoder> simply by adding console=ttyS0 console=tty0
[10:36] <blindcoder> we have other workaround already
[10:37] <fake> and that qualifies for adding even more?
[10:37] <blindcoder> at least it doesn't qualify for leaving a flaw unfixed
[10:37] <fake> the flaw of your bios
[10:37] <blindcoder> the flaw of not even having a getty on tts/0
[10:38] <netrunner> fake: if you don't have money, you don't sit complaining in the corner but go work to change the situation, no? :)
[10:38] <blindcoder> I'm pretty sure that even with a "good bios" not starting a getty on tts/0 won't give you a console there
[10:39] <netrunner> blindcoder: fakes point is, that a server that is connected to the serial port receives the console output as input.
[10:40] <blindcoder> I guess that's a lot more rare than a "non-good bios"
[10:40] <blindcoder> brb, co-worker calling
[10:45] <blindcoder> ok
[10:54] <netrunner> hm. I would say someone who connects two servers with a serial line knows what he does and can switch it off.
[10:55] <netrunner> and a login shell receiving console output should be able to deal with it anyway. (unknown user)
[10:59] <th_> dont see what should be a bios problem here...
[11:00] <th_> there are some BIOSes out that support stuff like kvm through serial line...
[11:00] <th_> but you normally don't need this.
[11:00] <th_> grub and linux kernel both support redirection to serial
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[11:03] <netrunner> th_: and that is what fake does not want :)
[11:04] <netrunner> but, reviewing his arguments, I think they are pointless. if he has to install via console, he needs it. if he does not, he is at the server and can disconnect the serial for the time of install.
[11:07] <th_> why disconnect?
[11:07] <th_> i did not read the complete argue though..
[11:08] <blindcoder> th_: the argument being that a machine with an active console may be hooked up to the machine being installed and then a console appearing on the "readin" part of the active console
[11:09] <netrunner> I sent it to rlml so people can vote.
[11:10] <blindcoder> th_: and that a pc with a bios that is not capable of rerouting everything through the serial port is not worth coping with
[11:17] <netrunner> ok. my qemu booting problems seem related to hotplug/udev. rockplug/devfs works fine.
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[13:04] <owl> moin
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[14:15] <netrunner>  http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5731.html
[14:22] <blindcoder> sweet
[14:22] <blindcoder> I'd love to have one of those with a dvorak layout
[14:26] <netrunner> where's my qemu master?
[14:31] <th_> just a firmware question
[14:32] <netrunner> th_: no, I was referring to daja :)
[14:32] <th_> netrunner: and i was referring to blindys question
[14:32] <daja77> O_o
[14:32] <th_> or statement
[14:34] <blindcoder> th_: problem is always getting his hands onto the firmware :)
[14:40] <blindcoder> wonder how long it will be until thinkgeek will carry that thing
[14:43] <netrunner> daja77: I managed to build qemu with --target-list=i386-user,i386,i386-softmmu,ppc-softmmu,sparc-user,ppc-user, but he still only installs qemu, qemu-i386 and qemu-img
[14:44] <daja77> dunno
[14:44] <netrunner> and where do I get this qemu-fast thing? ... questions ... :)
[14:45] <netrunner> oh, even better, the syntax is wrong. s/,/ /g
[14:46] <netrunner> hm.
[14:53] <daja77> i have no idea, and no time atm
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[18:45] <owl> re
[18:55] <netrunner> what can it be that a php script does not get its parameter
[18:55] <th_> where do you expect the parameters?
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[18:59] <netrunner> I call index.php?doLogin
[18:59] <th_> i asked where you expect them not where you gave them
[18:59] <netrunner> there is a check if ( $func == "showLogin" ) { $func(); exit;}
[19:00] <netrunner> oh, it was index.php?showLogin.
[19:00] Action: netrunner trying to install http://www.pixmail.org
[19:01] <netrunner> or if anyone can recommend another webmailer that supports imap (!squirrelmail, !hastymail)
[19:01] <netrunner> th_: later at the end the script prints a redirect to ?showLogin, which lets the page reload continuously
[19:04] <netrunner> the test fails, that is sure. 
[19:09] <th_> netrunner: so you should search why $func is filled
[19:13] <netrunner> th_: sorry, I am too stupid to quote. it's in the url:
[19:13] <netrunner> I am not wise in php, but this should fill a variable "func" with "showLogin", no?
[19:14] <netrunner> if I write a <? echo "Func is $func" ?> in the code I get "Func is "
[19:14] <netrunner> so it's undefined.
[19:17] <netrunner> oh. think I got it.
[19:18] <th_> registerglobals
[19:19] <netrunner> yes, googled it :) where do I put this php.ini?
[19:23] <netrunner> from http://www.washington.edu/computing/web/publishing/php-ini.html I read apache is supposed to read it from the scripts directory, but that does not work :/
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[19:38] <th_> netrunner: depends on the configuration.
[19:38] <th_> netrunner: there is a phpinfo() function. put this call in on a test.php and have a look.
[19:39] <th_> you should be able to guess php.ini's location than.
[19:39] <th_> and btw. using registerglobals sould be highly discouraged.
[19:39] <netrunner> aha.
[19:39] <netrunner> th_: I just want to try this webmailer, it looks neat :)
[19:42] Action: netrunner trying another one
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[21:04] <[anders2]> narf..
[21:05] <[anders2]> where is madtux hiding..
[21:12] Nick change: BoS -> BoS^family
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 29 2005