[00:34] <th> should i use qt-3.3.3 or even qt-3.3.4 for kde-3.3.2?
[00:35] <th> kde says: Qt >= 3.3.2 required
[00:35] <th> trunk has 3.3.3
[00:35] <th> latest available is 3.3.4
[00:56] <daja77> try 3.3.4
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[06:18] Nick change: netrunne1 -> netrunner
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[07:40] Nick change: BoS^afk -> BoS
[07:48] <blindcoder> moin
[10:11] Topic changed on #rocklinux by th!th@thzn.de: ROCK Linux 2.0-stable is preparing for kde-3.3.2 - please object NOW!
[10:58] <daja77> .oO (or shut up forever, or sth like that)
[10:59] <th> daja77: that would make my point _too_ obvious.
[11:00] <daja77> hehe
[11:00] <th> daja77: btw - would you mind sending another kernel update?
[11:00] <daja77> perhaps after clt
[11:00] <th> daja77: no haste
[11:00] <daja77> ok
[11:00] <th> perhaps 2.0.4 will have Xorg and kde-3.3.2 let's see
[11:01] <th> IMHO stabelization of 2.1 is more than due.
[11:01] <daja77> i try my best to break it ;) 
[11:02] <th> ;>
[11:03] <th> who's our openldap guy?
[11:04] <th> i guess we should have 2.2.23
[11:04] <th> instead of 2.1.27
[11:04] Action: daja77 points to mnemoc 
[11:05] <th> mnemoc: how about openldap-2.2.23 for stable?
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[11:09] <fake> moin
[11:09] <th> heya fake
[11:09] Action: fake still ill-ish
[11:09] <th> what's up?
[11:09] <th> got a cold?
[11:09] <fake> i guess so
[11:10] <daja77> hi fake 
[11:10] <th> dito
[11:10] <fake> th: still in the US?
[11:10] <fake> hi daja77!
[11:10] <th> fake: no
[11:10] Action: daja77 wants to kill some python coders
[11:10] <th> fake: returned 2005-02-12
[11:10] <th> daja77: HEY!
[11:11] <th> daja77: obey them!
[11:11] <fake> th: are you gonna do the job?
[11:11] <fake> ls
[11:11] <daja77> no they are annoying me for two days with crap
[11:11] <th> fake: yea - i do
[11:11] <fake> >_<
[11:11] <th> fake: it's full remote btw. just a few trips per year
[11:12] <fake> th: a, phew.
[11:12] <th> fake: you thought i'd leave?
[11:12] <fake> well, who knows...
[11:13] <daja77> some people leave for austria ;)
[11:13] <th> daja77: that's still the same country anyways - it's the EU ;>
[11:13] <daja77> continet is the word you were looking for ;)
[11:13] <daja77> +n
[11:13] <th> daja77: oh
[11:14] <th> daja77: does that make a diff?
[11:14] <daja77> it does ;)
[11:14] <th> doubtfully
[11:15] <fake> th is americanised
[11:15] <th> fake: don't say that
[11:15] <blindcoder> austria is just a bavarian colony anyway, so it doesn't count
[11:15] <th> blindcoder: is bavaria part of the EU too?
[11:16] <blindcoder> th: how easy would it be to update an already installed 2.0 to the new kde?
[11:16] Action: daja77 getting some popcorn
[11:16] <blindcoder> th: sadly, yes
[11:16] <th> blindcoder: wow. didn't knew that.
[11:16] <blindcoder> Some time in the past some stupid people thought it would be great if Bavaria would be part of Germany
[11:16] <blindcoder> hence the name BRD. "Bayern und Rest Deutschland"
[11:16] <th> blindcoder: i could try to just dump the new kde-gems into an old-kde install
[11:17] <th> blindcoder: but as we don't officially provide binary repositories...
[11:17] <blindcoder> th: that'd be a good excercise :)
[11:17] <daja77> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/657.gif
[11:17] <blindcoder> th: still should be tried
[11:17] Action: daja77 should move all python related packages into teha repo
[11:18] Action: daja77 hides
[11:19] <th> blindcoder: i always think of update like "reinstall everything besides /home"
[11:20] <blindcoder> th: which is a common, if bad approach
[11:21] <th> blindcoder: what do you mean?
[11:22] <blindcoder> th: I think that having to reinstall the whole system just to get a few updated packages is - at least - overkill
[11:22] <th> well everything else supports keeping your system-tinkerings
[11:23] <th> ans system-tinkerings are a disaster to maintain in any case
[11:23] <th> and should be avoided
[11:23] <blindcoder> hmm
[11:23] <th> or somehow automated - and if they are automated it wont hurt to re-tinker
[11:23] <blindcoder> I happen to like the tinkerings I've done :(
[11:23] <th> i'm serious about this for my self and all my customers. but i know that i cant enforce this "way of thinking"
[11:24] <th> so automate them!
[11:24] <blindcoder> after installing my game machine it took me two weeks to the first user login
[11:24] <th> thats crayz
[11:24] <th> y,zy,yz,
[11:24] <blindcoder> yeah, that's probably the right thing to do. Problem: it's long-term good, but short-term bad, so I haven't :(
[11:25] <blindcoder> well... yes, it is :)
[11:25] Action: blindcoder slaps a bumper sticker "Exception" on his forehead
[11:26] <blindcoder> anyway, I'm off for lunch now. And I still want comments on the encryption stuff I've written ^_^
[11:26] <blindcoder> bbl
[11:27] <th> blindcoder: that stuff is based on a wrong assumption regarding rescue target ;)
[11:27] <th> cant be healty
[11:27] <th> cant be healthy
[11:41] Action: fake catches() blindcoders exception
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[12:26] <blindcoder> back
[12:39] blindcod1r (~blindcode@dsl-082-082-096-093.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux.
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[12:40] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[13:28] <mnemoc> th: i vote for updating openldap on stable too, but i dislike the idea of updating kde because the update is not clean.
[13:29] <daja77> hm?
[13:30] <mnemoc> i have a weird concept of stable tree, you don't need to consider my thoughts
[13:31] <blindcoder> guess everyone's got their own thoughts there
[13:31] <mnemoc> :)
[13:33] <daja77> you use no X anyway right?
[13:34] <mnemoc> my machines with rock-2.0 not have X, true
[13:35] <mnemoc> it does't affect me directly, but that update goes against my conception of 'stable tree' of a distribution
[13:36] <blindcoder> what do we have now? 3.2?
[13:37] <daja77> mnemoc: kde 3.2.3 is as stable as 3.3, i can see no big difference, just that some nasty bugs were remived in 3.3
[13:39] <mnemoc> i'm worried about the updating on a running machine
[13:42] <th> mnemoc: we provide no real update mechanism in 2.0-stable 
[13:42] <mnemoc> is that a reason to break compatibility?
[13:44] <mnemoc> imo, if you are ready to provide an stable and updated plataform using newer technologies, release 2.1, but don't hurt 2.0.
[13:48] <daja77> one stable with newer versions would perhaps help some ppl who don't want to have dev versions
[13:53] <th> mnemoc: i would not propose the kde update if we would have shorter release cycles.
[13:54] <th> mnemoc: and thats where the "reason" comes handy.
[14:07] yesterday (~yesterday@200.69.223.249) joined #rocklinux.
[14:07] <yesterday> goodmorning
[14:07] <yesterday> I am playing with udev
[14:07] <th> welcome yesterday 
[14:07] <yesterday> but I can remote login via SSH
[14:08] <yesterday> ssh client say:
[14:08] <yesterday> stdin: is not a tty
[14:08] <yesterday> something is wrong with udev
[14:08] <yesterday> local login work fine
[14:08] <yesterday> ssh login without udev work fine
[14:08] <th> "< yesterday> but I can remote login via SSH"
[14:09] <th> so remote login is fine too.
[14:09] <yesterday> no
[14:09] <yesterday> I can't remote login to my box with udev mounted
[14:09] <th> so there are obviously some devices missing.
[14:09] <th> you might want to strace sshd
[14:09] <yesterday> yes
[14:10] <yesterday> ok
[14:10] <yesterday> I try
[14:16] <yesterday> the output of sshd -d
[14:16] <yesterday> is very confuse
[14:16] <yesterday> nothing about opening a device
[14:17] <th> did you give -f?
[14:17] <th> you should propably restart sshd like "strace -f sshd"
[14:22] <mnemoc> th: i'm completly agree about the 'release cycle', but that doesn't justify breaking the current stable. branch 2.0-stable into 2.1-stable and merge all the stable things from trunk :)
[14:23] <th> mnemoc: i dont really see where kde bump to 3.3.2 is "breaking"
[14:24] <th> mnemoc: which does not mean i dont understand you opinion.
[14:24] <mnemoc> th: afaik the abi changed so updating a package will make the desktop unusable
[14:24] <th> ah. ok.
[14:25] <mnemoc> that's what i mean by 'clean updates'
[14:25] <mnemoc> choose a random package, update it and every continue working
[14:25] <yesterday> th, ok
[14:26] <th> mnemoc: hmmm. that wont work in many cases if going from 2.0.x to 2.0.y
[14:26] <th> mnemoc: but 2.1-stable isn't a good a idea for a branch i think
[14:27] <mnemoc> btw, i see trunk as a 3.x due to the big and deep changes on it
[14:27] <th> mnemoc: so i could branch a 2.2 from 2.0
[14:28] <th> which would complete all versioning confusion
[14:28] <blindcoder> that's quite probable what will happen, but unstable is currently marked as 2.1
[14:28] <mnemoc> th: ah, you mean odd/even
[14:28] <th> mnemoc: yea
[14:28] <mnemoc> blindcoder: that's not hard to solve :)
[14:28] <yesterday> nothing 
[14:28] <yesterday> what devices use ssh?
[14:28] <mnemoc> pts
[14:30] <th> the gap between 2.1 and 2.0 is too big.
[14:30] <th> we need something intermediate.
[14:30] <yesterday> i have a /dev/pts dir
[14:30] <th> too big gap for easy stablization
[14:30] <th> yesterday: which is empty?
[14:30] <yesterday> yes
[14:30] <th> yesterday: none /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
[14:31] <th> yesterday: mount it
[14:31] <yesterday> ok
[14:33] <mnemoc> th: mv 2.1 2.9; cp 2.0 2.1; merge from 2.9 to 2.1; cp 2.1 2.2; rm 2.1
[14:33] <yesterday> work!
[14:33] <th> mnemoc: thats not consistent.
[14:33] <yesterday> thanks!
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[14:34] <th> mnemoc: that's like moving the current devel-version just a bit higher cause stable needs more numbers
[14:34] <th> mnemoc: if stable reaches 2.8 you propably move it to 2.19 or 2.99
[14:34] <th> (of course stable will never reach 2.8)
[14:35] <mnemoc> many projects create a .99999 branch :)
[14:35] <th> XFree86 Version 4.3.99.903 (4.4.0 RC 3)
[14:36] <mnemoc> yep
[14:37] <mnemoc> or just 3.x-trunk or 3.x-svn instead of 2.9
[14:37] <mnemoc> but labeling it 2.1 is a joke :)
[14:38] <th> that would mean like: mv 2.1 2.99; merge 2.99 changes into 2.[2,4,6,8] step by stap ; finally mv 2.99 3.1 and mv 2.8 3.0
[14:38] <mnemoc> yes, that's the idea
[14:39] <mnemoc> 2.{0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14} ^^
[14:42] <th> btw. march is a development month cause of it's odd number.
[14:42] <blindcoder> th: so you only develop in odd months?
[14:42] <mnemoc> :)
[14:42] <th> blindcoder: well i do stablization in even months
[14:43] <th> but only when the week is even
[14:43] <mnemoc> *G*
[14:43] <th> in even weeks of odd months i mostly do code cleanups
[14:44] <blindcoder> and in odd weeks of even months?
[14:44] <th> security fixes ;)
[14:44] <th> i prepared for that question
[14:44] <th> oh it's an odd day today...
[14:45] <blindcoder> no, even
[14:45] Action: netrunner trying to recover
[14:45] <th> oh it's the 2nd?
[14:45] <th> cool.
[14:45] <blindcoder> yees :)
[14:45] <blindcoder> and I find it quite odd that the first even day of an odd month is also on an odd weekday
[14:46] <blindcoder> cd /usr/games/lib/nethackdir/ ; ./recover 0nlock ; recover: recovered to: save/1002netrunner
[14:47] <netrunner> blindcoder: recover /var/archive/health
[14:47] <blindcoder> recover: can't read /var/archive/health: write-only memory
[14:48] <netrunner> damn. 
[15:15] <mnemoc> th: thanks (for the RFC you just sent)
[15:59] <th> argl - i want to have a java that installs without X
[16:00] <fake> huh?
[16:00] <fake> you don't need x for java
[16:00] <fake> who says so?
[16:00] <th> j2eesdk-1_4-linux.bin -console
[16:00] <th> Checking available disk space...
[16:00] <th> ...
[16:00] <th> java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /tmp/j2ees5RfgAs/package/jre/lib/i386/libawt.so: libXp.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[16:00] <fake> j2ee - yuck.
[16:00] <th> thats what i found while searching at java.sun.com
[16:01] <th> Download Java 2 Platform, Standard Edition, v 1.4.2 (J2SE)
[16:01] <th> first paragraph: J2EE 1.4
[16:02] <th> i'll try another version
[16:02] <tfing> th: try http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/awt/AWTChanges.html#headless
[16:02] <th> tfing: i just want to install the sdk
[16:03] <tfing> |To run our environment with a headless implementation, the follow property may be specified at the java command line:
[16:03] <tfing> |
[16:03] <tfing> |-Djava.awt.headless=true
[16:03] <th> and i have to do that for every jvm i guess
[16:04] <th> or set it in some property file
[16:04] <th> yuck
[16:06] <mnemoc> jikes :)
[16:07] <fake> th: you will want to try 1.5
[16:07] <th> fake: are you serious?
[16:07] <fake> th: yes. it's great.
[16:07] <th> at least the j2sdk1.4.2_07 extracts now.
[16:07] <fake> th: it will work.
[16:08] <th> quite much hassle just to get a connection to a lame dbms
[16:08] <th> (through jdbc)
[16:08] <th> i want native jdbc in python!
[16:46] <daja77> O_o
[17:01] <th> can i initiate a clean reboot by echoing something to /proc?
[17:01] <th> i've lost every disk io on one machine
[17:01] <th> and want to make the machine reboot
[17:02] <mnemoc> init 6
[17:02] <th> -bash: /sbin/init: Input/output error
[17:03] <mnemoc> o_O
[17:03] <th> i still have /tmp /proc and all the virtuals
[17:03] <th> and i have two shells left
[17:03] <mnemoc> phone someone to press the botton :|
[17:04] <th> i could use echo to create a reboot binary
[17:05] <th> how can i paste in a file without cat?
[17:05] <mnemoc> cat <<EOT > file
[17:05] <th> oh kill is a shell builtin!
[17:05] <th> -bash: /bin/cat: Input/output error
[17:06] <th> mnemoc: i don't have cat
[17:06] <mnemoc> echo > ; echo >> echo >>
[17:06] <th> i guess i could send a signal to init
[17:06] <th> which causes a panic
[17:06] <th> which causes reboot
[17:09] <th> echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/panic
[17:09] <th> hmm
[17:09] <th> can i write into /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq to trigger requests?
[17:09] <th> hmm seems to be to enable/disable only
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[17:11] <mnemoc> /sbin/init: Input/output error <--- what input what output?
[17:11] <th> to read the init binary i guess
[17:11] <mnemoc> trace init 6 on another machine :)
[17:11] <th> i lost the scsi controller serving all FS'
[17:12] <th> one should always have a minimum rescue system on non-disk fs like ramdisk
[17:12] <th> and one should have it mounted
[17:13] <th> /proc/sysrq-trigger what's that?
[17:14] <th> cool
[17:14] <th> that's it
[17:15] <th> echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
[17:15] <th> yea
[17:15] <th> rebooting
[17:15] <th> i hope i never sweared to loud about the "echo" shell-builtin
[17:17] <mnemoc> :)
[17:17] <th> yea got it back
[17:17] <th> but one raid disk is still degraded
[17:19] <mnemoc> [anders]: here?
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[17:23] Nick change: BoS_ -> BoS
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[17:30] <treo> moin
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[18:15] Nick change: BoS -> BoS^afk
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[19:52] <daja77> .oO (kasc will kill me)
[19:52] <blindcoder> why?
[19:53] <blindcoder> and more importantly: should I help him?
[19:53] <daja77> because of the things i did to clanlib and pingus
[19:53] <blindcoder> heh
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[20:27] <fake> http://operation.cntrcpy.com
[20:28] <fake> (game starts on friday 1200 CET)
[20:29] <daja77> friday 12 cet, time for games booth ;)
[20:31] <blindcoder> hoeh?
[20:35] <daja77> well ok let's say 14:00
[20:36] <daja77> time to set it up
[20:36] <blindcoder> hoeh?
[20:36] Action: blindcoder confused
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[22:01] <daja77> hi kasc ^^
[22:01] <daja77> *strike*
[22:01] <daja77> == 03/02/05 22:03:01 =[9]=> Finished building package pingus
[22:01] <daja77> ;)
[22:02] <mnemoc> where did you installed clanlibs?
[22:02] <daja77> /opt/clanlib06 /opt/clanlib07
[22:03] <daja77> but pingus needs some patching for this
[22:03] <mnemoc> only libs conflict or includes and bin too?
[22:04] <fake> hm... should i go home now.. or try 2.6.11 on this machine first?
[22:04] <daja77> go home ;)
[22:04] <mnemoc> try it first :)
[22:04] <daja77> hehe
[22:04] <mnemoc> 1-1
[22:04] Action: fake explodes
[22:04] <th> try it
[22:05] <daja77> mnemoc: the pingus configure is broken, so it won't find the libs there, made a patch, have to prepare the rest of the patches too, will flood soon
[22:05] <fake> i'm eager wether it works better with this borked p4
[22:05] <mnemoc> cvs -z4 -Q -d :pserver:anoncvs@anoncvs.services.openoffice.org:/cvs co -P -r SRC680_m82 OpenOffice
[22:05] Action: daja77 won't update for the clt cds
[22:05] <mnemoc> 742M downloaded from archive so far...
[22:06] <fake> mnemoc: and still cooouuntiiiiing...
[22:07] <mnemoc> fake: how much?
[22:07] <fake> *rofl*
[22:07] <fake> the game i linked before - i just read the flyer with the events that go along with it
[22:08] <fake> my bosses hold a talk there - it's titled
[22:08] <fake> 'the unique and glorious technique of soviet space travel'
[22:09] <daja77> hehe
[22:09] <mnemoc> o_O
[22:09] <fake> hm... i could blog while waiting for the kernel...
[22:09] <mnemoc> hehe
[22:09] <daja77> we had russians here years ago, showing these glorious techniques to us, and they were drunk ...
[22:09] <mnemoc> fake: have you used jikes?
[22:10] <mnemoc> daja77: including the dead dog?
[22:10] <daja77> erh no
[22:10] <daja77> laika?
[22:10] <fake> mnemoc: jikes rings a bell, gimme more input...
[22:11] <mnemoc> i want to use jikes and jikesrvm, to build ant and then openoffice
[22:11] <mnemoc> i have jikes here, i'm going for jikesrvm now
[22:11] <mnemoc> but i'm not sure if my goal is really possible
[22:12] <fake> ah, the free java compiler
[22:12] <mnemoc> IBM's
[22:12] <fake> jikes as a compiler is fine, but not as a vm... iirc
[22:12] <mnemoc> opensource :)
[22:12] <fake> i know
[22:12] <mnemoc> oh
[22:12] <fake> wait a little more... ibm will opensource their sdk soon
[22:13] <mnemoc> define soon
[22:13] <fake> within this year i guess
[22:13] <mnemoc> the cycle ibm->microsoft->linux->ibm is funny
[22:35] <treo> gn8
[22:35] <mnemoc> gn8 treo 
[22:39] <mnemoc> daja77: why libxml++ on stage1?
[22:39] <daja77> because wormux needs exactly that one
[22:40] <mnemoc> :\
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[22:55] <jackflash2> do you know rene?
[22:56] <mnemoc> rene=rxr
[22:56] <fake> blindcoder: you here?
[22:56] <mnemoc> jackflash2: you can find him on #t2
[22:57] <jackflash2> thanx
[22:57] <mnemoc> np
[23:09] Action: fake away
[23:11] <daja77> *flood*
[23:12] Action: fake away for zZzZzZ
[23:12] <fake> n8
[23:12] <daja77> n8 fake 
[23:37] <th> ftp.nluug.nl is out of sync. why is that?
[00:00] --- Thu Mar  3 2005