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[08:46] <owl> moin
[09:09] <blindcoder> moin
[09:09] <owl> sorry. have to go now O_o
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[09:46] <DLCool> Hi All :)
[09:47] <blindcoder> moin DLCool 
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[09:51] <DLCool> I have question. Rockplug works as hotplug manager too. Am I right ?
[09:51] <DLCool> Where does it look for firmware ?
[09:52] <DLCool> Has it firmware manaher as hotplug ?
[09:53] <DLCool> Or i need disable rockplug and install hotplug?
[09:54] <blindcoder> you sholud use hotplug
[09:55] <blindcoder> rockplug is unmaintained, obsolete and not feature-complete
[09:56] <DLCool> Thank you.
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[13:40] <owl> re
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[18:49] <uriahheep> yay
[18:49] <uriahheep> hey guys
[18:50] <blindcoder> hi
[18:51] <uriahheep> how's it going?
[18:51] <blindcoder> currently I'm sitting :)
[18:52] <uriahheep> :)
[18:52] <daja77> hi uriahheep 
[18:52] <uriahheep> hey :)
[18:52] <uriahheep> i just found rocklinux.org.... i'm very interested in its capabilities
[18:54] <fake> uriah heep rocks
[18:54] <uriahheep> indeed :>
[18:54] <fake> she came to me one morning... one lonely sunday morning...
[18:54] <uriahheep> hehehe
[18:54] <fake> o/~ her long hair blowing in the midwinter wind o/~
[18:58] <uriahheep> umm, how would one attempt to install ROCK?
[18:58] <uriahheep> ...boot into a livecd and fetch the sources/setup script?
[18:58] <fake> depends on what you define as ROCK - the build kit, or the generic distribution
[18:59] <fake> rock is not a source distribution
[18:59] <uriahheep> it's not?
[18:59] <fake> it can be used as one.
[18:59] <uriahheep> so all of the packages are pre-built? i fetch binaries from mirrors?
[18:59] <fake> but rock's intended use is a distribution build-kit
[18:59] <uriahheep> fake: ah ;) i think that's what i'd want to do
[18:59] <uriahheep> ok....
[19:00] <fake> you provide mirrors with binary packages for your distribution ;-)
[19:00] <uriahheep> :) sounds fun
[19:00] <fake> if the user base for your distribution is just you, well, then it's a source distribution, yes ;)
[19:01] <uriahheep> ...but if i were to do both -- use ROCK as a source distro AND to create my own distro -- how would i do the first part? fetch the build-kit while in a livecd and run it?
[19:01] <fake> the easiest way is to build rock-based distributions on rock-based distributions
[19:01] <fake> (because that is thourougly tested)
[19:02] <uriahheep> i see
[19:02] <fake> i recommend you try crystal, rock's generic-purpose 'example' distribution
[19:02] <uriahheep> where can i see what distros are rock-based? is there a list somewhere?
[19:02] <uriahheep> ok cool :)
[19:03] <uriahheep> where does crystal reside? rocklinux.net?
[19:03] <fake> ftp://iso.rocklinux.de/unofficial/fake/crystal/x86/crystal-x86-pentium_mmx-rev5370.iso
[19:03] <fake> not the newest, but fairly up-to-date
[19:03] <uriahheep> cool :)
[19:03] <fake> it's a snapshot of the current development 'HEAD'
[19:03] <uriahheep> ...and from that i could build my own system?
[19:03] <fake> a few more here: iso.rocklinux.de
[19:04] <fake> uriahheep: have a look at doc.rocklinux.org
[19:04] <uriahheep> k
[19:04] <fake> uriahheep: on guides how to build distributions, or 'emerge' packages from within a running installation
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[19:05] <uriahheep> oh? ROCK uses portage?
[19:05] <fake> nope
[19:06] <uriahheep> then where does your use of 'emerge' come from lol?
[19:06] <fake> it's just called 'Emerge-Pkg' / rocket emerge, so you gentoo noobs know what the hell we're talking about all the time ;)
[19:06] <th> heh
[19:06] <fake> it combines Download and Build=Pkg
[19:06] <uriahheep> lol
[19:06] <uriahheep> k
[19:09] <uriahheep> fake: can i chroot or something, to build the distro for my i686 laptop from an amd64?
[19:10] <fake> uriahheep: if you have a sufficient multilib installation, that should work out-of-the-box
[19:10] <fake> though untested
[19:10] <fake> i guess ;_
[19:10] <fake> ;)
[19:10] <uriahheep> yeah i have a pretty complete multilib installation... all of the emul-linux packages available in portage are installed
[19:10] <fake> the build process bootstraps most of what it needs 
[19:11] <uriahheep> k... and i can tell the build package to just build with specific directory as the root dir?
[19:11] <fake> though finding errors due to host-distribution-related weird behaviours is not easy...
[19:12] <uriahheep> hmm
[19:12] <fake> uriahheep: huh? you build a complete distribution inside a subdirectory, if everything goes well, and ISO plops out at the end (if you want that... see docs)
[19:12] <uriahheep> nice
[19:12] <fake> of course, there's chroot() envolved.
[19:13] <uriahheep> ...is the builder setup to use the linux32 command before things such as chroot?
[19:13] <uriahheep> that's important for the building of certain packages
[19:13] <fake> uriahheep: the linux32 command just sets up cflags et alas, right?
[19:14] <uriahheep> openssl, for example, will use uname -m to detect the architecture
[19:14] <uriahheep> fake: nah, it's used to emulate a 32bit system
[19:14] <fake> uriahheep: i think we trick openssl there
[19:14] <uriahheep> ok cool :)
[19:15] <fake> uriahheep: how do you think that works? it's just tweaking paths for the runtime linker...
[19:15] <uriahheep> hehe it isn't hard to just patch the makefile instead anyway
[19:15] <fake> ... and adjusting cflags
[19:15] <uriahheep> yeah
[19:15] <fake> though you may try to crosscompile to ia32, may be the safest bet
[19:15] <uriahheep> well i'm not sure abotu the cflags... i mean, linux32 is for general use... not compile-specific
[19:15] <fake> not as much packages, though
[19:16] Action: fake just knows sparc64 / sparc32
[19:16] <uriahheep> heh k
[19:18] <uriahheep> Diet libc is a libc that is optimized for its small size. It can be used to create small statically linked binaries for Linux on alpha, arm, hppa, ia64, i386, mips, s390, sparc, sparc64, ppc and x86_64.
[19:18] <uriahheep>  </quote>
[19:18] <fake> jep. it's used in the bootdisk
[19:18] <uriahheep> they mention i386 there.... do they mean x86, or really just i386?
[19:18] <fake> the bootdisk... target
[19:18] <daja77> i386
[19:18] <uriahheep> hmm k
[19:18] <fake> it has optimizations (size-wise) for i686 too
[19:18] <daja77> erh x86
[19:18] <daja77> d'oh
[19:18] <uriahheep> heh k cool :)
[19:18] <fake> but it's not that cost-effective
[19:19] <uriahheep> i can use cflags such as -march=pentium3 then?
[19:19] <fake> that doesn't matter to the c library?
[19:19] <uriahheep> heh k...
[19:20] <uriahheep> fake: are the size-wise optimizations for i686 in dietlibc as impressive as the ones for i386?
[19:21] <uriahheep> hmm.... is dietlibc only supported in rock-2.1?
[19:22] <daja77> no it is on 2.0 as well
[19:22] <uriahheep> k
[19:22] <daja77> and even older versions
[19:22] <uriahheep> :)
[19:22] <fake> since 2000 or 2001 iirc
[19:22] <uriahheep> cool :)
[19:24] <uriahheep> so is there some kind of step-by-step script that i run to start building the distro?
[19:24] <fake> start with ./scripts/Config
[19:24] <uriahheep> ok
[19:24] <fake> don't tweak around too much, you can create a lot of nonsense ;)
[19:25] <uriahheep> heh :P
[19:25] <fake> your cpu has feelings too, you know.
[19:25] <fake> working days for nothing is depressing...
[19:26] <uriahheep> heheh
[19:26] Action: daja77 is about painting parse trees
[19:26] <uriahheep> i know that ;) my athlon64 has told me that many times
[19:26] <uriahheep> [ ]        This is a cross-build between architectures
[19:26] <uriahheep> in my case, this is required, right?
[19:26] <fake> it's a safe bet. though you won't get a bootable cd out of that
[19:27] <fake> just a boostrap-environment to start a 'real' build on the target architecture...
[19:27] <uriahheep> oh?
[19:27] <fake> cross-building is the dark side of the force...
[19:28] <fake> very... fast and... tempting...
[19:28] <uriahheep> yeah k :(
[19:28] <uriahheep> i've got an already-built 32bit system i could chroot to i guess
[19:29] <daja77> hm dark side of the force ... ack for hppa at least
[19:29] <fake> uriahheep: that's the safest bet i guess.
[19:29] <uriahheep> cool
[19:29] <uriahheep> will do
[19:29] <fake> uriahheep: or make a chroot-into-able installation of that crystal iso i posted
[19:32] <uriahheep> fake: yeah, mayeb that's a good idea
[19:32] <uriahheep> but meh, this is good enough i'd think
[19:33] <fake> uriahheep: it's very well possible other approaches would work as well, it's just if newbies hit rough edges, they tend to wander off, so ...
[19:33] <fake> that may be the way of 'least resistance'
[19:33] <uriahheep> yeah
[19:38] <uriahheep> awesome, ./scripts/Config checks for missing packages
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[19:43] <uriahheep> ohh... nice... just took a new screenshot: http://alexis.screenies.placebis.net/fluxbox-screen04.png (yes, i'm a careless bloated picture quality whore)
[19:49] <uriahheep> hmm, what exactly does dynamic library linking consist of?
[19:56] <uriahheep> fake: i should probably select [ ]    Abort when a package-build fails, right?
[20:02] <uriahheep> ICK
[20:03] <uriahheep> is there any way that i could use newer packages? using rock 2.1 prolly, but how up-to-date is rock2.1?
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[20:05] <uriahheep> hmm i answered myself, never minf
[20:06] <uriahheep> mind*
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[20:47] <uriahheep> bbs
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[23:31] <nookie> daja77: ayt? :)
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[23:36] <daja77> erh yes
[00:00] --- Tue Apr 19 2005