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[01:27] <th> daja77: what 2.6 kernel version did you try?
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[07:21] <owl> moin
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[07:28] <netrunner> moin, 2
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[07:29] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[07:32] <owl> hi netrunner 
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[08:28] <blindcoder> moin
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[08:46] <netrunner> build yet again at 16%
[08:50] <owl> hi blindcoder 
[08:50] <owl> *shivers* someone wants the cold? i can give some virus...
[08:50] <blindcoder> moin netrunner
[08:50] <blindcoder> moin owl 
[08:50] <blindcoder> owl: nah, thanks
[08:50] <owl> blindcoder: pah. *grummel* ;)
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[10:41] <daja77> th:
[10:41] <th> k - cool
[10:43] <daja77> :)
[10:43] <th> i guess there are a lot of kernel-header-usage fixes to make
[10:43] <th> i never merged these patches to stable
[10:43] <th> cause it was not using 2.6
[10:44] <th> perhaps some apps are fixed now
[10:44] <daja77> in fact there are a lot of security updates that should go in
[10:45] <th> propably
[10:45] <th> i wont block them
[10:46] <th> promised.
[10:46] <daja77> just have to collect them all, curl was the one I found yesterday
[10:49] <daja77> ah build stopped
[10:49] <daja77> 464 builds total, 353 completed fine, 111 with errors.
[10:53] <th> all related to kernel update?
[10:53] <daja77> hm strange that download now fetches packages it did not before ...
[10:53] <daja77> no
[13:24] <owl> yes, using a mail-client is difficult. or how do you explain, that people are writing "hello. blablabla (which normally is written into the message-body".)?
[13:24] <blindcoder> o_O
[13:25] <owl> blindcoder: want a screenshot? :p
[13:26] <blindcoder> no, thanks...
[13:26] <owl> *g*
[13:31] <daja77> ah nice some security updates are in 2.0 now
[13:32] <owl> http://owl.karnaya.de/public/fun/using_mail-client.jpg
[13:32] <owl> 2.0?
[13:33] <daja77> blindcoder: we definitely need a rss feed for the developers birthdays ;)
[13:33] <blindcoder> give me the dates
[13:33] <daja77> clifford: happy birthday, even if it was yesterday
[13:34] <blindcoder> clifford: from me, too. and here's an aspirin :)
[13:34] <daja77> they are in the gallery, no?
[13:34] <blindcoder> owl: ouch
[13:34] <blindcoder> daja77: hmm, gotta look 
[13:34] <owl> blindcoder: ack.
[13:36] <clifford> daja77, blindcoder: thanks..
[13:36] <owl> clifford: happy birthday from /me, too
[13:36] <clifford> thanks, thanks, thanks, ....  ;-)
[13:37] <clifford> daja77: do you read the dietlibc mailing list?
[13:37] <daja77> no
[13:37] <daja77> should I?
[13:38] <clifford> fefe just sent a warning to stay away from gcc4 over that list
[13:39] <daja77> ah well, already found that out ;)
[13:39] <clifford> thay have found various code generation bugs with gcc 4 ..
[13:39] <clifford> they
[13:39] <daja77> yes and I am too lazy to search all the patches from that bugzilla
[13:40] <daja77> I reverted all gcc4 related changes I made to some base packages
[13:41] <daja77> the question is if I should sm send the glibc-cvs forked package, which I could need for testing hppa stuff e.g.
[13:45] <clifford> [2005050617121705724] really worked out! finally... *phew*
[13:46] <daja77> that dependency thing?
[13:46] <daja77> ah no, found it ;)
[13:46] <clifford> the ash heisenbug.
[13:47] <th> talking of ash...
[13:47] <th> i tried to kick klibc-ash yesterday
[13:47] <th> it does not like some rock-wrappers
[13:47] <th> i need help there
[13:48] <clifford> what can I do?
[13:48] <th> lemme show you my klibc.{desc,conf}
[13:48] <th> just a second
[13:48] <th> happy birthday from me too - of course ;)
[13:49] <th> http://www.rocklinux.net/people/teha/klibc.{desc,conf}
[13:49] <clifford> yes, yes...  *g*
[13:49] <clifford> lets talk about klibc.  ;-)
[13:49] <th> it builds well if you have 2.6 as default kernel
[13:50] <th> but it segfaults when you try to run somethign
[13:50] <th> SMP and me tried to get this running last night
[13:50] <th> it works all right when build outside of rock build system
[13:50] <th> s,build,built,
[13:51] <th> they are somehow using "klcc" wrapper as CC
[13:51] <th> _somehow_
[13:52] <clifford> some way for me to eighter reproduce it or remote login on a machine where I can try it all out?
[13:52] <th> yea i can do that
[13:52] <th> can give you access on my 2.0-stable build machine
[13:53] <clifford> OT: http://www.clifford.at/priv/raubkopieren.jpg
[13:53] <th> could i narrow down access to a specific IP address?
[13:54] <clifford> yes. (this is the office here), or phoenix of course..
[13:54] <daja77> lol where do you git that pic from
[13:54] <clifford> whatever you like more.
[13:54] <th> k. i can add them both.
[13:54] <th> JEEEEEESH
[13:55] <clifford> daja77: just got it per email from a non-geek friend.
[13:55] <daja77> hehe you really said non-geek
[13:56] <blindcoder> non-geeks are no friends :)
[13:58] <owl> .oO( this is what i call an office)
[14:01] <daja77> the rocklinux distribution center
[14:10] <daja77> more than 1.5h for a kernel >_<
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[15:21] <netrunner> hm. how would I use rocknet to configure bridging?
[15:25] <netrunner> ah, build at 23%
[15:29] <clifford> add a br0 interface and run 'brctl' in 'run-up' and 'run-down' entries.
[15:30] <netrunner> ok.
[15:30] <clifford> (or add a rocknet module which implements wrappers for brctl)
[15:30] <netrunner> that was my first thought :)
[15:31] <netrunner> clifford: what do you think about adding a "applied by" to submaster?
[15:31] <netrunner> clifford: I think it is misunderstandable that patches you applied for reference build are already positive.
[15:31] <clifford> http://lists.netfilter.org/pipermail/netfilter-devel/2005-May/019780.html
[15:32] <clifford> .. trying to get this patch to netfilter for almost 3 months now ..
[15:32] <clifford> netrunner: you don't see in submaster if I have a patch applied for ref. builds.
[15:32] <clifford> a patch marked 'applied' in submaster is applied in subversion trunk.
[15:33] <netrunner> clifford: but you vote pro for the journal when you apply it for a test build.
[15:33] <clifford> I vote pro when I like a patch.
[15:33] <netrunner> :) ok
[15:34] <clifford> Som time later I build a journal which is in most cases identical to the list of patches I voted for - but I might take some patches out for one reason or another..
[15:34] <clifford> (e.g. when I want to avoid changing too much in the toolchain at once)
[15:34] <netrunner> ok, I misconcluded.
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[16:18] <netrunner> oh yeah, wine needs to be fixed for new binutils.
[16:26] <th> i hate it! are these whimpy aliases  '{rm,cp,mv} -i' from rock?
[16:26] <blindcoder> I think so
[16:26] <th> shell users have to know what they are doing.
[16:26] <th> else they should use some GUI crap
[16:28] <th> hmmmm and i got no answer to my email "Subject: [rock-devel] base/openssh/enable_x11_fwd.patch"
[16:28] <th> could i get some opinions here?
[16:28] <th> clifford: around?
[16:29] <th> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:05:03 +0200
[16:29] <th> From: Tobias Hintze <th@rock...>
[16:29] <th> Subject: [rock-devel] base/openssh/enable_x11_fwd.patch
[16:30] <th> whimpy aliases come from /etc/conf/profile - thats rock
[16:30] <blindcoder> it's usually the first things I unalias in my ~/.bashrc
[16:31] <th> the whole /etc/conf/profile should go
[16:31] <th> perhaps keep an empty scratch to allow users to add their own things
[16:31] <th> daja77, netrunner, clifford 
[16:31] <blindcoder> nah, some things are nice to be there in the first place
[16:31] <th> wake up folks ;-)
[16:32] <th> blindcoder: for example?
[16:32] <th> set_xterm_title?
[16:32] <th> or alias beep?
[16:32] <th> nothing else in there
[16:32] <blindcoder> well, nothing beeps here
[16:32] <blindcoder> so the former :)
[16:33] <th> set_xterm_title - does that change any bash default? or is it only an addition?
[16:33] <th> i've no problems with carefully chosen additions
[16:33] <blindcoder> addition
[16:33] <th> but we should not change default behaviour
[16:33] <th> k then
[16:33] <blindcoder> and personally, I'd hate having to enable X11 forwarding everywhere
[16:33] <th> i thought rock is about only patching/changing when absolutely necessary.
[16:33] <blindcoder> I really wonder why it is disabled i the first place
[16:34] <th> alias rm='rm -i' << thats not absolutely necessary
[16:34] <th> neither is bash color
[16:34] <th> neither is default x11-fwd enabling
[16:34] <blindcoder> well, I need it on any machine I've installed ROCK so far :)
[16:34] <blindcoder> s/any/every
[16:35] <th> well - put it in you ~/.ssh/config - it's one line only
[16:35] <th> it's not the openssh default - so we should not make it rock default
[16:35] <blindcoder> that works for the server part?
[16:35] <th> i like a vanilla rock
[16:35] <th> without strawberry flavour
[16:35] <blindcoder> well, some people think that strawberry adds that little extra :)
[16:36] <th> ahh no of course it doesn't
[16:36] <th> well create network based script
[16:36] <th> like curl http://blindcoder.org/myrock-adaptions | sh
[16:36] <blindcoder> hmm... blindcoder.org
[16:36] <th> you can put everything in there
[16:36] <blindcoder> has a nice ring to it :)
[16:37] <th> perhaps you need to order that domain first.
[16:37] <th> shall i do that for you?
[16:37] <th> could be yours in 3 minutes
[16:37] <blindcoder> nah, thanks, already got one I'm not taking care of
[16:37] <th> but that's sort of OT
[16:37] <blindcoder> don't need another :)
[16:38] <th> but do you agree that we shouldn't change defaults of packages?
[16:38] <blindcoder> as long as the defaults make sense I agree
[16:38] <th> and who tells if a default makes sense, if not the packager?
[16:38] <th> s/packager/author/
[16:39] <blindcoder> then the defaults make sense to the author
[16:39] <blindcoder> look at my LVP, the defaults probably make sense to noone but me
[16:39] <blindcoder> not that anyone but me would use it, but still :)
[16:39] <th> a good author does not choose defaults for himself but for the majority of users
[16:40] <th> and he can make the choice based on some deeper knowledge. he has the maximum insight
[16:40] <blindcoder> you could just as well argument that a responsible user checks the configuration
[16:40] <th> no - no way - not at all
[16:40] <th> we can't rely on responsible users
[16:41] <blindcoder> I'd like to believe we can
[16:43] <daja77> th: ?
[16:43] <th> daja77: we are currently discussing some things. wanted to have some more opinions
[16:43] <th> daja77: only minor things
[16:43] <th> like policy ;)
[16:44] <blindcoder> AAH! THE EVIL P-WORD! :)
[16:44] <daja77> ok
[16:44] <th> daja77: the backlog knows...
[16:44] <daja77> >_<
[16:45] <th> it's only one page on my 24" screen - won't hurt to read ;-)
[16:45] <th> owell - it's a smaller font
[16:45] <th> and it's in portrait
[16:45] <daja77> ^^
[16:46] <th> but well
[16:46] <daja77> ok read it
[16:46] <blindcoder> th: just you wait until I look at it with 2m screen height at home :D
[16:47] <blindcoder> #define makes\ sense personal\ opinion
[16:47] <blindcoder> #define policy Change defaults where it makes sense.
[16:47] <blindcoder> :)
[16:48] <th> blindcoder: i'll tile my whole wall with flat panels..
[16:48] <blindcoder> th: I'll just move my beamer 50cm farther from the wall :)
[16:48] <th> damn
[16:48] <th> you won
[16:48] <th> damn
[16:48] <blindcoder> btw, _hannes!
[16:48] <blindcoder> _hannes: did the posters arrive over there?
[16:50] <blindcoder> anyway, I'm going to Kendo now
[16:50] <blindcoder> bbl
[16:50] <th> cya blindcoder 
[17:17] Nick change: BoS_ -> BoS
[17:22] <owl> bye blindcoder 
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[18:05] <netrunner> th/blindcoder: I think daja started some work on a 
[18:05] <netrunner> kind of ci package (corporate identity)
[18:05] <netrunner> which can be used to put beautifications everywhere.
[18:06] <daja77> yes ...
[18:06] <netrunner> and secondly I think config options are property of package maintainer. he adds it in a way he thinks it is right.
[18:06] <daja77> .oO (my todo is bigger than the time I can spend ...)
[18:06] <netrunner> and thirdly, what would we do without a configured kernel or bootloader :)
[18:07] <netrunner> daja77: I would also like to work on that. but not right now :)
[18:07] Action: daja77 thinks that discussion should be on the ml ...
[18:07] <daja77> netrunner: are you at linuxtag?
[18:08] <th> daja77: i sent a mail regarding the X11 thing last month. and got no response
[18:09] <daja77> th: I know our list ... well spam it a bit more ;)
[18:11] Action: daja77 likes to do some rock stuff on linuxtag, I'll have more time there than here ;)
[18:13] <netrunner> ouch, my kde just got a bit sluggy ... I entered an appointment for linuxtag ending 20056 :)
[18:15] <netrunner> daja77: I don't really know. 
[18:15] <netrunner> I would like to, but things are a bit crazy currently :)
[18:16] <daja77> damn it, linux26 fails in stage 1
[18:17] <th> daja77: what's the err there?
[18:18] <daja77> the link from /lib/modules/$version/build to the src dir can't be set
[18:19] <daja77> so actually it build fine, perhaps the linux24.conf doesn't fit anymore
[18:20] <SMP> madness culminates in the release of GPL ghostscript 8.16
[18:20] <daja77> -v
[18:21] <SMP> oh, sorry. GNU ghostscript
[18:22] <daja77> :D
[18:22] <daja77> you tested if it works with cups or sth?
[18:23] <SMP> ghostscript left the GNU project after 7.07, from there on being called GPL ghostscript (latest release 8.15, equal to the older AFPL ghostscript 8.15)
[18:24] <SMP> now some bozos must have decided to continue releasing under the name GNU ghostscript (and upload to ftp.gnu.org). this must be another fork, as there never was an AFPL ghostscript 8.16
[18:25] <daja77> O_o
[18:26] <SMP> but don't try using any of these with cups! you need ESP ghostscript for that - their 8.15 release finally is in RC status
[18:26] <daja77> ic
[18:27] <SMP> ftp.gnu.org lists the latest releases of GNU ghostscript as: gnughostscript-8.01.tar.gz, gnu_ghostscript-8.15.tar.gz and gnu-ghostscript-8.16.tar.gz
[18:27] <SMP> these fuckers can't even decide on a naming convention
[18:34] <daja77> .oO (I don't get it, why ln -sf doesn't work anymore)
[18:36] <SMP> -          link library (DLL). On Linux, Ghostscript can be compiled as a
[18:36] <SMP> +          link library (DLL). On GNU/Linux, Ghostscript can be compiled as a
[18:36] <SMP> GNU idiots ...
[18:36] <daja77> argh
[18:37] <daja77> nobody cares about that GNU/Linux shit anyway
[18:37] <SMP> GNU zealots do
[18:37] <daja77> yes
[18:48] <th> .oO( Gnu Public License )
[18:53] <SMP> th?
[18:55] <th> yes
[18:55] <th> sup?
[18:55] <SMP> your comment
[18:55] <th> nothing
[18:55] <th> ignore it
[18:55] <th> senseless kidding
[18:59] <SMP> most of the diff between gnu_ghostscript-8.15 and gnu-ghostscript-8.16 is just senseless s/8.15/8.16/, CVS Id strings and a minority of autoconf/libtool related changes
[18:59] <SMP> bozos.
[19:00] <th> you like'em, hmm?
[19:01] <SMP> they have a mission ...
[19:02] <SMP> and I've been having a bad day
[19:05] <SMP> if you're up for a hard laugh, read the first three articles here: <http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/?anchor=harmony_update> - esp. the first and third
[19:05] <SMP> this guy rocks.
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[19:13] <th>  1459 root      18   0 25716  15m 7804 R 27.0  1.5   0:05.70 kdm_greet                                        
[19:13] <th> what the hell is that app doing?
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[19:18] <netrunner> th: greeting you. first thing you usually see of kde. then it asks you for a password
[19:20] <netrunner> this is really weird. sendmail says it installed a sendmail_sendmail, but there is none.
[19:20] <th> netrunner: i know what it should do. and well - it does what it shall do. but why does it eat ~30MB of ram and takes > 3 seconds to show a simple greeting?
[19:20] <netrunner> oh, _s_bin
[19:20] <SMP> th: because it can
[19:21] <SMP> I mean. even the kde screenblank screensaver takes two seconds and some serious disc i/o to launch
[19:21] <netrunner> hm. packages depending on sendmail should also depend on exim and postfix. I chose exim as default now those packages fail testing for /usr/sbin/sendmail
[19:21] <th> that got worse with kde-3.3.2
[19:22] <netrunner> th: it does prefetching of kde stuff so your desktop loads faster.
[19:22] <th> netrunner: ah thanks.
[19:23] <netrunner> th: I read they improved this algorithm for 3.4 quite good, so the login time should be noticably faster from 3.3 to 3.4
[19:24] <th> and the greeter startup time noticably slower i'm afraid
[19:24] <netrunner> :)
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[19:24] <netrunner> it's only the first time.
[19:24] <netrunner> who said the first time is the best? :)
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[19:53] <netrunner> *cry*
[19:53] <netrunner> This is not permitted. Please reconfigure.
[19:53] <netrunner> *headbang*
[19:53] <daja77> hm?
[19:54] <netrunner> bacula.
[19:55] Action: netrunner prefers boring updates
[19:55] Action: daja77 too
[19:56] Action: daja77 doing boring boring updates when the important stuff didn't work for recreation
[19:56] <daja77> ^^
[19:58] <netrunner> Removing unsupported '--with-mysql-include=/opt/mysql/include/mysql
[19:58] <netrunner> then it complains it doesn't know where to look for mysql.
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[19:58] <daja77> --with-mysql-inncludes perhaps?
[19:59] <daja77> -n
[19:59] <daja77> hi mnemoc 
[20:01] <mnemoc> hi daja77 
[20:01] <netrunner> no, simply --with-mysql
[20:01] <netrunner> hi mnemoc
[20:02] <daja77> netrunner: :D
[20:04] <mnemoc> i netrunner 
[20:04] <mnemoc> hi*
[20:05] <mnemoc> a keyboard with Z between T and U (instead of Y like normal ones) is 'de'?
[20:06] <th> mnemoc: yes
[20:06] <mnemoc> thanks :)
[20:14] <netrunner> mnemoc: if it also has a second a, o and u with points above ... :)
[20:15] <mnemoc> yes, that also
[20:15] <mnemoc> and beta ('ss')
[20:15] <mnemoc> and mu
[20:15] <mnemoc> weird keyboard you have :)
[20:16] <mnemoc> but the y<->z thing is the most unconfortable part
[20:16] <daja77>  :p
[20:16] <daja77> no the most unconfortable part are the brackets
[20:17] <th> i almost never use the german keyboard mapping
[20:19] <netrunner> just noticed that I always wondered about weird extra chars in other languages .. now with our umlauts its the same :)
[20:24] <mnemoc> daja77: i haven't notices those
[20:24] <mnemoc> netrunner: distribution changes is worse than 'weird extra chars'
[20:26] <netrunner> mnemoc: try typing on a cyrillic keyboard :)
[20:26] <mnemoc> no thanks :)
[20:27] Action: netrunner has stickers with cyrillic on his keyboard. already wrote a mail with it. took an hour or so :)
[20:27] <mnemoc> :(
[20:41] <netrunner> wonderful. now I get a call from moldova while writing english right after learning russian. damn, couldn't find the words in the correct language
[20:41] <netrunner> :(
[20:42] <owl> hehehehe, poor netrunner 
[20:43] <daja77> I know what you mean
[20:43] <netrunner> yeah, I haven't made a good impression mother-in-law 
[20:43] <netrunner> I hope that when I come back from russia I am fluent enough in russian that I can put it in a seperate part of my brain
[20:44] <daja77> don't worry too much, think she'll forgive ...
[20:46] <netrunner> :)
[20:46] <netrunner> hope so :)
[20:51] <owl> netrunner: well - if not, you could call her "monster in law" (which is a movie btw) -might you could make a 2nd part of the movie then *vbeg*
[21:09] <daja77> aaaaaahhhh
[21:10] Action: daja77 kicking kernel versions with 4 parts
[21:11] <netrunner> daja77: fine, now it's broken into 5 pieces.
[21:11] <owl> O_o 
[21:11] <blindcoder> it's the kdm login screen I thnk
[21:12] <blindcoder> hmpf
[21:12] <blindcoder> damn pageup/down keys
[21:12] <owl> *g*, blindcoder 
[21:12] <daja77> is installing its modules to /lib/modules/2.6.11 >_<
[21:13] <daja77> and we try to create a symlink in /lib/modules/$ver ... $ver is of course
[21:15] <blindcoder> maybe we should use [
[21:15] <blindcoder> [V] 2.6.11 9
[21:16] <daja77> yeah perhaps, checking sth else first
[21:16] <SMP> daja77: does it? does use /lib/modules/
[21:18] <daja77> yes normally it would but we destroy the extraversion by changing it from .9 to -rock ...
[21:18] <netrunner> build/full-TRUNK-x86-pentium-mmx-32-generic-expert/lib/modules/
[21:18] <netrunner> daja77: but thanks, I just found out that lirc seems to call uname for installing its modules during build.
[21:18] <daja77> erh netrunner I am trying 2.0 atm ;)
[21:19] <netrunner> ah.
[21:21] <SMP> netrunner: I used to use phonetic Cyrillic layout - it keeps Cyrillic letters on the keys of equal or similar Latin letters
[21:25] <netrunner> SMP: you also fasten seatbelts while driving? ;)
[21:25] <SMP> pff
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[00:00] --- Fri May 20 2005