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[08:45] <Pilot> hi again
[08:55] <SMP> hi
[08:57] <SMP> Pilot: actually, I had taken a look at etcnet as an alternative to rocknet a number of times. but it's quite the opposite approach of rocknet. I designed an alternate rocknet before today's rocknet started -- it was more like etcnet, quite similar to RH's style
[08:59] <Pilot> SMP: may be, you can save time with etcnet?
[09:00] <Pilot> it works as expcted
[09:00] <SMP> personally; I'm addicted to IOS / JunOS style config (like rocknet), but today's rocknet is actually imperative only hiding as declarative
[09:01] <SMP> so I don't like the way etcnet splatters config files all around ;-)
[09:02] <Pilot> SMP: checking for a file existance is much simple, than checking for variable existance in a single file
[09:03] <SMP> I only took a casual look at the docs lately, how does etcnet deal with interface renaming? can I define an interface by MAC (or PCI id?) rather than by name?
[09:03] <Pilot> SMP: all files reside in /etc/net, you can make backup with a single tarball
[09:03] <Pilot> SMP: yes, you can
[09:06] <SMP> I wouldn't actually mind having rocknet replaced -- but obviously I'm going to advocate rocknet ;-)
[09:06] <SMP> ehm
[09:06] <SMP> obviously I'm not going to advocate etcnet
[09:15] <Pilot> SMP: can't you have 2 systems? we've made so in ALTLinux
[09:15] <Pilot> 2 conflicting RPMs
[09:17] <owl> moin
[09:18] <Pilot> moin
[09:21] <SMP> yeah, well, rocknet exists only as parts of several other packages. but that doesn't stop someone from integrating etcnet as another choice with our build system -- and I don't see a reason why it shouldn't get accepted
[09:21] <Pilot> how can i participate?
[09:22] <daja77> send a patch to submaster
[09:22] <daja77> e.g.
[09:23] <SMP> get the rock sources from subversion, make an etcnet package -- then we'll see how to get it working along with rocknet
[09:24] <Pilot> i have a CVS repository
[09:25] <Pilot> i have to learn SVN...
[09:25] <SMP> though actually the first thing is quite major -- basically you'd have to have a rock build installed to get the building and testing done -- but it can be just a chroot on an existing machine
[09:25] <SMP> with rock everyhing is possible -- it just depends on your abilities ;-)
[09:26] <SMP> the hardest thing about SVN is getting the client installed. checkout/update are easy if you know CVS
[09:27] <daja77> client install got a bit easier since you don't depend on bdb anymore M)
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[10:08] <kasal> Good morning.
[10:09] <daja77> moin kasal 
[10:09] <kasal> ROCK Linux installs gzip-1.2.4, which is 12 years old.
[10:10] <kasal> I was told that it would be wiser to use gzip-1.3.*, the development version.
[10:10] <kasal> I know all the reasons why ROCK delivers stock unpatched stable version.
[10:10] <SMP> we deliver stable versions? ;)
[10:10] <daja77> *gg*
[10:10] <kasal> Yet I think this might be a good thing to make an exception here.
[10:11] <kasal> ;-) Versions declared as "stable" by the maintainer. :-)
[10:11] <kasal> WDYT?
[10:12] <daja77> I'd prefer if developers that think a dev tree is stable release it as stable ...
[10:13] <kasal> I'd prefer that too.
[10:13] <SMP> hey, you're right, it really is 12 years old. that's cool. we should keep that old stuff around ;-)
[10:13] <kasal> :-)
[10:13] <daja77> lol
[10:14] <SMP> seriously.
[10:14] <daja77> well if that version is working I see no problems with that
[10:15] <SMP> 1.3 probably has asm routines that make it go faster than light
[10:15] <SMP> on current CPUs
[10:16] <daja77> the bzip2 speed is mire annoying ...
[10:18] <kasal> Paul Eggert, the maintainer of Autoconf, patch, tar, and such packages, has told me:
[10:18] <kasal> > But no maintainer should be using gzip 1.2.4 any more.  It has serious
[10:18] <kasal> > correctness and security bugs.
[10:19] <kasal> There are two ways: 1) you decide to trust him.
[10:19] <SMP> then those freaks should be releasing a stable version
[10:19] <kasal> 2) I'll ask him for details, he'll give them to me, and I'll come back.
[10:20] <kasal> "those freaks" -- sure, you are right.
[10:20] <SMP> wow.
[10:20] <kasal> It probably means we should try to kick the gzip maintainer in his chairing part.
[10:20] <SMP> even Debian stale & rotten ship gzip 1.3
[10:20] <daja77> would be a good start
[10:21] <kasal> It might end up that Paul would become the maintainer of yet another package...
[10:21] <daja77> SMP: so should I send an update patch?
[10:21] <kasal> No doubt it's a sin on GNU's part.
[10:22] <SMP> OMG. even the 'latest' gzip 1.3.5 is almost 3 years old
[10:22] <SMP> daja77: yeah
[10:22] <kasal> Yes, please go to 1.3.5.
[10:22] <SMP> maybe you can take a peek into the latest FC gzip SRPM to see what patches would be needed
[10:23] <kasal> Fedora also uses 1.3.x.
[10:24] <kasal> I think the rule "distribute plain versions" is wise.  So I guess plain 1.3.5 would be fine.
[10:24] <SMP> proably not. too many security issues with gzip/zlib lately
[10:26] <daja77> this is ridiculous gzip.org is advertising 1.2.4 version
[10:26] <SMP> gzip.org has no authority whatsoever
[10:27] <daja77> yeah just noticed
[10:29] <kasal> OK, for me 1.3.5 would be enough.  Thank you very much.
[10:29] <daja77> hrhr firefox tries to start realplayer when I click on the src rpm for download
[10:32] <daja77> ok will do that when I am at university
[10:44] <SMP> yeah, Real Networks used .rpm for Real Plugin Media or so. more or less at the same time rpm appeared on the radar
[10:45] <SMP> but it was actually never widely used for Real. and it certainly is obsolete now
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[15:01] <owl> moin
[15:17] <daja77> done
[15:17] <daja77> finally
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[16:01] <daja77> hm for this years election they are flooding bavaria
[16:22] <owl> how do you mean?
[16:22] <daja77> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,371062,00.html
[16:23] <daja77> for the last elections they chose saxony and brandeburg
[16:24] <owl> ahso. yeah. here in IN the donau is a bit high, too... 
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[17:12] Nick change: menomc -> mnemoc
[17:13] <daja77> hi mnemoc 
[17:20] <mnemoc> hi daja77 
[19:02] <owl> re
[20:39] <netrunner> what sense does it make to have the hotplug initscript run hotplug again (after it run in system.init)
[20:53] <cutio> ho ho ho
[20:53] <cutio> hi:)
[20:53] <owl> hi cutio *g*
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[23:16] <SteffenP> hi all
[23:16] <SteffenP> how was the line in the package selection thing inside the /scripts/config for selection all kde apps or deselecting all kde apps.. at the moment i use O kde
[23:17] <SteffenP> or... someone should really work on the documentation
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[23:18] <SteffenP> ahh oky O kde... seems to work
[23:18] <daja77> http://doc.rocklinux.org/wiki/ChangingThePackageSelection
[23:19] <daja77> 005: X extra/desktop/kde the very example 
[23:19] <daja77> ;)
[23:20] <SteffenP> yep.. oky 
[23:28] <SteffenP> why is dietlibc needed? if i want to build a desktop system?
[23:29] <SteffenP> hmm... maybe it's not needed.. i don't know.. hmm
[23:31] <SteffenP> is in the stable tree the linux kernel 2.4.XXX needed? or can i just deselect it?
[23:49] <daja77> 2.0?
[00:00] --- Wed Aug 24 2005