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[08:25] <blindcoder> moin
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[13:30] <th> wow mine consumes a lot of RAM
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[13:38] <blindcoder> th: that's because it's based on tar which reads the whole tarball into RAM
[13:39] <th> sure?
[13:39] <th> i doubt that
[13:40] <th> i can pipe into "tar xz" and it wont load it in RAM before starting to extract
[13:40] <th> i thought it would be the gem->tar step that eats the mem
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[13:45] <blindcoder> hmm
[13:45] <blindcoder> I'm quite sure I had that problem at least with older tar versions
[13:46] <th> hmm
[13:46] <th> k
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[13:47] <th> hey SMP_ 
[13:47] <th> i doubt he's real
[13:49] <blindcoder> he's never :)
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[14:16] <owl> moin
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[15:24] <daja77> >_<
[15:24] <blindcoder> ^_^
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[15:24] <blindcoder> Splitnode is a fun network to be on
[15:25] <blindcoder> if you don't like people, jsut wait a few minutes, they'll vanish by sheer magic!
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[15:27] <daja77> ^^
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[16:18] <owl> hi _hannes_ 
[16:38] <netrunner> *kreisch* Aug 29 16:23:01 waterworld kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 22:41 (hdh), sector 46068000
[16:38] <daja77> internal drive?
[16:39] <cutio> ibm djna? ;)
[16:40] <netrunner> yes. one of my 120 GB drives in striped lvm. if it breaks, ... well, you know..
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[16:41] <daja77> damn it
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[16:46] <mnemoc> *yawn*
[16:46] <daja77> hi mnemoc 
[16:46] <mnemoc> hi daja77 
[16:47] <mnemoc> daja77: how are the rains?
[16:47] <daja77> it is sunny today
[16:47] <daja77> and the flood was not in my area this time ;)
[16:47] <mnemoc> :)
[16:48] <mnemoc> we had 160mm yesterday, but today is sunny also
[16:48] <daja77> i was at dresden last friday http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~jahre/dresden-2005-08-26/
[16:48] <daja77> it was sunny too
[16:49] <mnemoc> lucky daja77 
[16:49] <daja77> :)
[16:49] <daja77> ah that reminds me
[16:49] <daja77> blindcoder: ping
[16:51] <cutio> daja77: i life in dresden :)
[16:51] <daja77> so you know all the pics already ^^
[16:51] <daja77> cutio: will you be at the linux info tag dresden?
[16:51] <cutio> probably
[16:52] <daja77> nice because I thought of registering a rocklinux booth there
[16:52] <cutio> that would be kinda cool! :>
[16:52] <daja77> but I don't want to do this alone like last year
[16:52] <cutio> did you visit dresden neustadt too?
[16:53] <daja77> not this time ^^
[16:53] <daja77> I concentrated a bit on the nice parts on friday ^^
[16:54] <daja77> neustadt is concipated to drive any sane car driver mad
[16:54] <cutio> yeah, well the neustadt is a little bit unique ;) you even smell the difference.. at least i do
[16:54] <daja77> hehe
[16:54] <cutio> albertplatz!
[16:54] <daja77> yeah
[16:54] <cutio> i enjoy driving or fighting on the b172 =)
[16:55] <daja77> ^^
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[17:08] <cutio> is there an OOo.gem?
[17:09] <daja77> hm possibly
[17:24] <th> in trunk with udev... 
[17:24] <th> does it work without initrd?
[17:25] <daja77> I must have missed the first question
[17:27] <th> it was only one
[17:27] <th> my question is: is it possible to boot a trunk without initrd
[17:27] <th> with udev
[17:30] <daja77> can't tell
[17:34] <esden> huhu
[17:34] <daja77> hi esden
[17:35] <esden> hi daja77 
[17:35] <esden> what is up?
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[17:42] <th> who starts /etc/initscript?
[17:45] <esden> /sbin/init
[17:45] <th> ahh it's init itself
[17:45] <esden> ?
[17:45] <esden> yes then I had it correctly in my head ;)
[17:46] <mnemoc> inittab? :)
[17:46] <th> nope
[17:46] <th> inittab only gets the boring part of /etc/rc.d
[17:46] <mnemoc> sure?
[17:47] <mnemoc> i use runit, but iirc inittab has a line for initscript
[17:47] <th> strings /sbin/init|grep initscript
[17:47] <th> /etc/initscript
[17:47] <th> /etc/initscript - - - /sbin/sulogin
[17:47] <th> hardcoded
[17:48] <mnemoc> outch
[17:55] <blindcoder> daja77: pong
[17:55] <blindcoder> th: it is
[17:56] <th> blindcoder: yea i figured. i was confused how the first devs are created. but it's the udevstart from initscript which is started by /sbin/init itself
[17:56] <daja77> blindcoder: I thought of registering a booth for rock at the linux info tag dresden, cutio is there perhaps, just wondering if you are interested?
[17:56] <blindcoder> daja77: date?
[17:57] <daja77> 2005-10-29
[17:57] <esden> huhu blindcoder 
[17:57] <blindcoder> hi esden *hug*
[17:57] <blindcoder> daja77: let me get my palm
[17:57] <esden> blindcoder: *rehug*
[17:58] <blindcoder> saturday
[17:58] <blindcoder> daja77: cost?
[17:58] <daja77> erh nothing apart from driving I guess
[17:59] <blindcoder> sounds good
[17:59] <daja77> and perhaps if you want to stay at night there, what I don't want to
[17:59] <blindcoder> when does it start? ie, when do I have to get up :)
[18:01] <blindcoder> esden: I'm currently setting up a backup mechanism on pallas
[18:01] <daja77> guess like last year, talks starting at 10
[18:01] <blindcoder> sound good to me
[18:01] <esden> blindcoder: very well ... what kind of backup?
[18:01] <daja77> so it should be enough when we are there between 9 and 10
[18:02] <blindcoder> esden: taper and then using ftp to copy to zero's server
[18:02] <esden> backup only ... or also a recovery possibility? :P
[18:02] <esden> humm ... ok
[18:02] <esden> I hope that it is enough
[18:02] <blindcoder> esden: also recovery :P
[18:02] <esden> I hope so
[18:02] <daja77> cool so I'll register and ask on the ml later of somebody likes to join
[18:03] <esden> daja77: -> query
[18:03] <blindcoder> esden: well, the stuff I currently back up is already ~1GB compressed
[18:03] <blindcoder> daja77: okay :)
[18:03] <daja77> it is just that we are nearest ;)
[18:03] <esden> humm ... so it is not a full backup?
[18:03] <blindcoder> esden: It worked fine on my "Gesellenstueck" at Siemens and AFAIK it is still in use there
[18:03] <daja77> esden: there is nothing in that query, perhaps you haven't registered ...
[18:03] <blindcoder> esden: full backup on sunday night, incremental backup until saturday, lather, rinse, repeat
[18:03] <esden> O_O?
[18:04] <blindcoder> esden: you are not identified to nickserv
[18:04] <esden> grrr...
[18:04] <blindcoder> esden: you should read global notices :)
[18:04] <esden> so why are queries not forwarded?
[18:04] <daja77> 15:51 [freenode] -!- Unregistered users cannot currently send private messages due to spambot problems. please register!
[18:04] <blindcoder> esden: spambots
[18:04] <esden> daja77: have you locked that or what?
[18:04] <daja77> ...
[18:04] <esden> :P
[18:04] <esden> blaeh!!!
[18:04] <daja77> and that sucks ...
[18:05] <esden> ok ... now I am registred!!!
[18:05] Action: esden kicking lilo ;)
[18:05] <daja77> ^^
[18:05] <blindcoder> esden: I will backup all /home/*/Mail /home/*/public_html and /home/*/BACKUP directories
[18:05] <blindcoder> esden: as well as a dozen other things I think are necessary
[18:05] <blindcoder> esden: if you have another idea, tell me. current list is in /backup/backmeup
[18:05] <blindcoder> I'll make dinner now, brb
[18:05] <esden> daja77: did you get something now?
[18:06] <daja77> yep
[18:06] <esden> blindcoder: what about our websites?
[18:06] <esden> and databases?
[18:07] <blindcoder> esden: /home/www /home/mysql and /home/svn are already in backup
[18:07] <esden> ahh good
[18:08] <esden> perhups real mysql dumps every week or month would be nice?
[18:08] <blindcoder> hmm
[18:08] <blindcoder> need to try that
[18:09] <blindcoder> also, /etc /var/spool/mail and /usr/games/lib are in the backup
[18:13] <th> anyone familiar with writing udev rules?
[18:13] <blindcoder> a bit
[18:14] <blindcoder> already had quite a run-in with udev...
[18:14] <daja77> hm if i got that right today then 2.6.13 has new rules
[18:15] <blindcoder> udev isn't in the kernel
[18:15] <blindcoder> it's in userspace
[18:15] <blindcoder> that's what makes it so crappy
[18:15] <esden> ok .. I have to go
[18:15] <esden> cu guys
[18:15] <blindcoder> bye
[18:15] <th> cya esden 
[18:16] <th> crappy because it's in userspace?
[18:17] <blindcoder> well, not only that
[18:17] <blindcoder> but because IT ALWAYS RETURNS WITH 0 EVEN IF THERE ARE A THOUSAND ERRORS!
[18:17] <blindcoder> oh, and it doesn't log them _ANYWHERE_
[18:18] <blindcoder> no sysfs? exit(0);
[18:18] <blindcoder> errors in the rules file? exit(0);
[18:18] <blindcoder> no hotplug? exit(0);
[18:18] <daja77> ic you like it ;)
[18:18] <blindcoder> everything fine? exit(0);
[18:18] Action: daja77 hides
[18:18] <blindcoder> like a hole in my head, yes
[18:18] <th> oh yea that's cra
[18:18] <th> p
[18:19] <blindcoder> took me around three hours to get it running the first time
[18:19] <th> i'm trying to bring udev to stable
[18:19] <th> and need a compat ruleset
[18:19] <daja77> cool
[18:19] <blindcoder> there's already ide-devfs.sh and scsi-devfs.sh scripts
[18:19] <th> these rule files look ugly
[18:19] <th> blindcoder: the scsi one does not work
[18:19] <blindcoder> th: best use the ones in trunk
[18:20] <blindcoder> hmm
[18:20] <blindcoder> do I have to be surprised?
[18:20] <th> i've a vmware running with scsi discs
[18:20] <blindcoder> great :(
[18:21] <th> hmm well /dev/{ide,scsi} works.
[18:21] <th> i'm missing /dev/discs
[18:22] <blindcoder> aaah
[18:22] <blindcoder> just a moment
[18:24] <blindcoder> th: http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/ide-devfs.sh
[18:24] <blindcoder> I modified ide-devfs.sh for this
[18:24] <blindcoder> maybe you can use the same for scsi-devfs.sh
[18:24] <th> ugly mime/type
[18:24] <th> ahhh 
[18:24] <th> cool
[18:24] <th> reading
[18:24] <blindcoder> yeah, stone me
[18:25] Action: daja77 throwing a stone at blindcoder 
[18:25] <blindcoder> *ouch* well, that was to be expected
[18:26] <th> blindcoder: that one is _not_ your modified version
[18:26] <blindcoder> not?
[18:26] <blindcoder> hmm
[18:26] <blindcoder> then I modified something else
[18:27] <blindcoder> can you give me the line in 50-udev.rules that handles IDE devices?
[18:27] <th> BUS="ide", KERNEL="hd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh %k %b %n", NAME="%k", SYMLINK="%c{1} %c{2}", GROUP="%c{3}"
[18:27] <th> this one?
[18:28] <blindcoder> BUS=="ide", KERNEL=="hd[a-z]*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/ide-devfs.sh %k %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK+="%k %c{2}"
[18:28] <blindcoder> that is mine
[18:28] <th> "=="?
[18:28] <blindcoder> yes
[18:28] <blindcoder> which udev version are you running?
[18:28] <th> .68
[18:28] <blindcoder> 063 here
[18:29] <th> so you have no GROUP= and some %c %k diffs
[18:29] <blindcoder> yes
[18:30] <blindcoder> and I have /dev/discs/
[18:30] <th> yea strange
[18:30] <th> perhaps i would have /dev/discs if i only had a ide disk
[18:30] <blindcoder> hmm
[18:30] <blindcoder> wait
[18:31] <blindcoder> th: http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/scsi-devfs.sh
[18:31] <th> i've a /dev/cdroms/
[18:31] <blindcoder> have a look at that
[18:31] <th> that one differs from the .68 version
[18:31] <th> (ide-devfs.sh did not)
[18:32] <blindcoder> yeah, I think made changes to that one since my usb sticks register as scsi disks
[18:32] <th> i see
[18:32] <blindcoder> been some time, memory is fuzzy
[18:32] <th> let's see
[18:33] <th> hmm nothing yet
[18:33] <th> perhaps i should start to understand that ugliness
[18:33] <blindcoder> restarted?
[18:33] <blindcoder> reattached the scsi devices?
[18:33] <daja77> voodoo for the masses
[18:33] <th> i did:
[18:33] <th> rm -rf /dev/*
[18:33] <th> and udevstart
[18:33] <blindcoder> sounds like it wouldn't work to me
[18:34] <blindcoder> better reboot
[18:34] <th> that's not yet possible ;)
[18:34] Action: blindcoder fondly remembers the times of devfs where everything just worked
[18:34] <th> the /dev/cdroms/ stuff worked with rm+udevstart
[18:35] <blindcoder> I see
[18:35] <blindcoder> what's the scsi line in 50-udev.rules?
[18:35] <blindcoder> or lines
[18:35] <th> taken from scsi-devfs.sh
[18:35] <blindcoder> I have four lines for that
[18:36] <blindcoder> ah yeah
[18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sd %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}"
[18:36] <blindcoder> you need to add %c{5} at the end
[18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sr*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sr %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}"
[18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="st*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh st %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}"
[18:36] <th> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sg*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sg %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4}"
[18:36] <blindcoder> BUS="scsi", KERNEL="sd*", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/scsi-devfs.sh sd %b %n", NAME="%c{1}", SYMLINK="%c{2} %k %c{3} %c{4} %c{5}"
[18:36] <blindcoder> like this
[18:36] <th> yes
[18:37] <th> thanks
[18:37] <th> that's it
[18:38] <th> blindcoder: thanks man
[18:38] <blindcoder> you're welcome
[18:38] <blindcoder> maybe we should add that change to ROCK
[18:38] <daja77> send a patch ;)
[18:38] <th> i'd say: only to stable
[18:38] <blindcoder> I'm somehow reluctant contacting whoever created udev
[18:38] <blindcoder> I'm afraid his insanity might rub off
[18:39] <daja77> th: why?
[18:39] <th> hmm
[18:40] <daja77> 3.0 should be usable too ;)
[18:40] <th> i dont really like the /dev/discs/ thing
[18:40] <th> well
[18:40] <th> i DO like it - but it had some strange effects for me in stable
[18:40] <th> perhaps that was devfs specific only
[18:40] <th> i need to check that
[18:41] <daja77> well but I do and I tell you why, some crappy ide usb stuff is changeing the /dev/scsi...id everytime I connect the device, so I can't handle it in fstab that way, but with the /dev/discs symlink it is always the same name
[18:42] <th> yea true
[18:42] <th> very true
[18:42] <th> as i said: "i DO like it"
[18:42] <daja77> :)
[18:42] <th> and it might very well be that the effects were related to devfsd only
[18:42] <daja77> I am not sure
[18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{idProduct}=="0702", SYSFS{idVendor}=="05e3", NAME="discs/mobiledisk/part%n"
[18:43] <daja77> it looks like the kernel does not "free" a once used id and reserving a new one instead
[18:43] <blindcoder> always the same name
[18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{serial}=="484A1E0001CB", NAME="acer_stick%n"
[18:43] <blindcoder> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{product}=="TS128MJF2A", NAME="transcend_stick%n"
[18:43] <blindcoder> same for these
[18:43] <th> blindcoder: what if i have 5 sticks from the same manuf?
[18:44] <blindcoder> th: use the serial number
[18:44] <daja77> well I am talking of some sane defaults that I can handle without touching stuff like that
[18:44] <blindcoder> daja77: then you're off the scope as far as udev is concerned
[18:44] <blindcoder> daja77: udev _expects_ you to do stuff like that
[18:44] <th> no 
[18:44] <th> that's not true
[18:44] <daja77> think of the livecd ...
[18:45] <daja77> you just don't know which devices a user will connect
[18:45] <blindcoder> th: yes it does. it comes up everytime the author talks about udev
[18:45] <blindcoder> daja77: *nod*
[18:45] <blindcoder> that's why my /dev/discs/ hack makes sense
[18:45] <th> blindcoder: well then it needs another abstraction layer
[18:46] <blindcoder> th: udev needs being dumped, end of story.
[18:46] <daja77> seems that there is no sane chance of dumping it
[18:46] <th> blindcoder: you shouldn't have any problem as soon as you have made udev behave like devfs did. and that IS possible
[18:46] <blindcoder> daja77: I have my opinion. Please don't confuse me with facts.
[18:47] <th> hehe
[18:47] <daja77> hehe
[18:47] <blindcoder> th: yes, and that's what I did to the scsi-devfs.sh script
[18:47] <blindcoder> th: and why it should be either directly in udev (which I fear of trying to achieve) or at least in both ROCK trees
[18:47] <th> blindcoder: k - so no need to dump udev any longer?
[18:48] <blindcoder> th: only if you are fine with a userspace solution
[18:48] <th> sure i am. that's why i prefer udev in genereal
[18:48] <th> and i'm fine with /dev/discs in both trees
[18:48] <th> i was just unsure
[18:49] <th> because of strange readings i had
[18:49] <th> like some recursion problem with /dev/discs/
[18:49] <blindcoder> well, it took me a lot of time to get running fine for the first time whereas devfs really just worked
[18:51] <blindcoder> and I don't like having even more programs in LVP
[18:51] <blindcoder> they're taking up more space than devfs did
[18:51] <th> you dont need the daemon - do you?
[18:52] <blindcoder> probably not
[18:52] <blindcoder> but I had strange effects with udevstart without a running udevd
[18:52] <th> there is a udev binary... what the hell is that for?
[18:52] <blindcoder> that is called by hotplug
[18:52] <th> k
[18:56] <blindcoder> bbl
[19:31] <th> hmm /etc/initscript gets called multiple times. that's strange
[19:59] <th> need to inspect init source code
[19:59] <th> very strange
[20:01] <th> initscript ist called for EVERY spawn that /sbin/init does.
[20:02] <mnemoc> oh
[20:03] <mnemoc> sysvinit sucks :)
[20:03] <netrunner> my poor colleagues
[20:03] Action: netrunner looking at big can with zaziki
[20:12] <blindcoder> hehe
[20:21] <th> /etc/initscript feels like the wrong place to run udevstart for me
[20:23] owl (n=owl@karnaya.de) joined #rocklinux.
[20:23] <owl> moin
[21:41] <th> is there any reason why stable should NOT update to newest coreutils? (5.2.1 in trunk; 5.0 in stable)
[21:42] <mnemoc> no problems i guess
[21:44] <th> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[21:44] <th> /dev/                 4.0G  2.9G  1.1G  74% /
[21:44] <th> /dev/bus/pci/domain0000/bus00/slot10/function0/scsi/bus0/target0/lun0/part1
[21:44] <th>                        84M  5.7M   74M   8% /boot
[21:44] <th> that's just ugly
[21:44] <th> i hope newer coreutils do better
[21:45] <th> hmmm
[21:46] <th> that might be just a matter of /etc/init.d/system writing the mtab
[21:48] <cutio>  /dev on / ?
[21:58] Nick change: _hannes_ -> _hannes
[22:02] <th> cutio: "/dev/" init.d/system's try to change /dev/root into something more usefull
[22:02] <th> but this udev does not have /dev/root so it failed to resolve
[22:04] <th> blindcoder: do you have a /dev/root in your udev?
[22:05] <cutio> th: i do
[22:06] <th> cutio: can i see the lines in the udev config for that/
[22:06] Action: daja77 building 2.6.13
[22:07] <th> daja77: so you are on udev too?
[22:07] <daja77> good question perhaps a mix of devfs an udev
[22:08] <th> daja77: do you have a /dev/root?
[22:09] <cutio> th: i didnt do something, it was there since udev is running? x_x
[22:09] <daja77> hm no, but a /dev/rd
[22:09] <th> daja77: that's ramdisk
[22:09] <daja77> ah k.
[22:09] <th> cutio: do you have a rootfs.sh in /etc/udev/scripts?
[22:10] <th> there is some trivial approach which just reads /proc/cmdline
[22:10] <cutio> nope
[22:11] <cutio> There's no rootfs.sh
[22:14] <th> cutio: can you please `grep -r cmdline /etc/udev` ?
[22:15] <cutio> nothing found
[22:15] <th> strange
[22:15] <th> that's udev?
[22:21] <H-K> ls
[22:21] <H-K> oops =)
[22:24] <cutio> brr got dns problems
[22:25] <cutio> th: well uhm.. ive devfs on this machine here, i forgot that only my other pc uses udev =(
[22:25] <cutio> allthough its prepared here too
[22:31] <th> i think /dev/root is to point to exactly what's given on kernel append line as root=
[22:31] <th> which means: reading /proc/cmdline to setup /dev/root is legit
[22:36] <daja77> damn 2.6.13 doesn't work on devfs orientatzed userlands
[22:37] <netrunner> daja77: I mentioned that a few weeks ago ...
[22:38] <daja77> sigh
[22:38] <daja77> damn it
[22:41] <th> anyone has udev enabled trunk running?
[22:42] <mnemoc> daja77: devfs removed?
[22:42] <daja77> I can't find it
[22:42] <netrunner> yes
[22:43] <th> netrunner: do you have /dev/root ?
[22:43] <th> i feel like adding the following to /etc/conf/devfs (and devfs stands for any dev-fs here (devfs,udev,static):
[22:43] <daja77> my userland is so old that stone only knows about hwscan and rockplug ...
[22:43] <th> if ! test -e /dev/root ; then
[22:43] <th>         grep -q 'root=' /proc/cmdline && ln -s "`cat /proc/cmdline| sed 's/.*root=\([^ ]*\).*/\1/'`" /dev/root
[22:43] <th> fi
[22:46] <th> which creates /dev/root by reading /proc/cmdline
[22:48] <daja77> wtf devfs is still in teh kernel but you can't configure it?
[22:48] <th> yes
[22:48] <th> removing everything was propably too hard
[22:48] <daja77> what does it is still in the kernel means in that cas
[22:48] <daja77> e
[22:49] <daja77> i see no difference
[22:49] <daja77> i don't want to change the rest of the system, becaue it will die soon anyway ...
[22:51] <netrunner> th: no
[22:51] <mnemoc> acording to Bertl from vserver devfs was just 'hidden' and not removed
[22:51] <th> netrunner: cool
[22:51] <netrunner> th: I use udev if that affects your issue
[22:51] <th> netrunner: yea - it's good to know
[22:52] <th> netrunner: so i'll send a patch which gives us /dev/root back
[22:52] <daja77> so how can I activate it
[22:52] <netrunner> th: which is of what use?
[22:52] <th> netrunner: can i see your /proc/mounts please?
[22:52] <th> rootfs only
[22:54] <netrunner> /dev/root / ext3 rw 0 0
[22:55] <mnemoc> daja77: http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.6/13-rc3/fs/Kconfig <--- revert the patch that removes DEVSF_* from Kconfig
[22:55] <netrunner> commit 2c6e5a839f92591a4bc6cac4a575d42151645af3
[22:55] <netrunner> Author: Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de>
[22:55] <netrunner> Date:   Tue Jun 21 15:24:19 2005 -0700
[22:55] <netrunner>     [PATCH] devfs: remove devfs from Kconfig preventing it from being built
[22:55] <th> netrunner: fine. and the corresponding entry in /etc/mtab?
[22:56] <netrunner> /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part6 / ext3 rw 0 0
[22:56] <th> netrunner: cool - and the part where the mtab is created? /etc/init.d/system propably?
[22:57] <netrunner>  sed "s,^/dev/root ,$rootdev ," > /etc/mtab || error=$?
[22:58] <th> that's incomplete. the line before please
[22:58] <th> owell no
[22:59] <th> the line where $rootdev is set
[22:59] <th>     rootdev="/dev/$(ls -l /dev/root | sed 's,.* -> ,,')"
[23:01] <netrunner>         rootdev="/dev/$(ls -l /dev/root 2> /dev/null | sed 's,.* -> ,,')"
[23:01] <mnemoc> daja77: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Experimental/delta-devfs.diff
[23:01] <th> netrunner: so i assume you have a devfs mounted below your udev
[23:02] <th> netrunner: which provides /dev/root symlink to you
[23:02] <th> netrunner: so you can populate your /etc/mtab correctly
[23:04] <netrunner> th: well probably I have a kernel that has automount devfs, which is later moved to /dev/devfs by udevd
[23:05] <th> netrunner: correct. now image you're going to use 2.6.13 which lacks devfs
[23:05] <th> netrunner: so who's going to provide /dev/root for you?
[23:06] <th> btw: the mount --move for /dev (devfs) to /dev/devfs is done by /etc/initscript not udevd
[23:10] <netrunner> th: I was wildly guessing. currently debugging some floating point exceptions.
[23:12] <th> netrunner: i just wanted to explain why we /dev/root
[23:12] <netrunner> th: O sto÷÷ dpm
[23:12] <netrunner> I still don't get what I need /dev/root for
[23:12] <th> still - a kernel without devfs can mount root for me. (root=/dev/sda2)
[23:13] <netrunner> th: I always provide root=/dev/foo for the kernel.
[23:13] <th> netrunner: you need it to have a correct /etc/mtab - you need it to know what your rootfs is
[23:13] <daja77> here it couldn't
[23:13] <th> netrunner: as udev runs in userspace kernel wont provide a /dev/root for you (as it did with devfs)
[23:14] <th> daja77: i meant s/can/can't/
[23:14] <daja77> ok
[23:14] <th> of course root=/dev/scsi/... can't work
[23:14] <netrunner> th: so the problem is not the kernel but the initscript that fills the mtab
[23:14] <th> that would be naming policy
[23:14] <th> netrunner: and other userspace tools 
[23:14] <th> netrunner: coorect.
[23:15] <netrunner> can float be negative?
[23:15] <th> netrunner: one idea would be to use /proc/cmdline in /etc/init.d/system directly
[23:16] <th> netrunner: yes
[23:21] <th> daja77: i think kernel should decode root parameter into major/minor numbers
[23:22] <daja77> I think the guy who made that lousy devfs removal patch should be shot in the foot
[23:22] <netrunner> hm, maybe I shouldn't divide by 0
[23:22] <daja77> sounds like a good start
[23:23] <netrunner> ah, works :)
[23:23] <netrunner> only that I play for the opponent :)
[23:36] <th> does udev require initramfs stuff? cant believe that
[23:37] <th> so no one here has a non-devfs udev system running?
[23:37] <daja77> exactly
[23:37] <mnemoc> :)
[23:38] <th> i'd say some root=/dev/ram magic would work. but i dont want to initrd now
[23:39] <daja77> if you have same patches i'd boot a devfs free system
[23:39] <daja77> build*
[23:41] <th> the only point that i'm missing at the moment is how the kernel mounts root
[23:41] <th>     create_dev("/dev/root", ROOT_DEV, root_device_name);
[23:41] <th>     mount_block_root("/dev/root", root_mountflags);
[23:41] <th> pretty straight
[23:43] <mnemoc> rene was two days fighting with the pivot_root replacement kernel did reciently, to something called switch_root afaik
[23:44] <mnemoc> i guess thy also did changes on /dev/root defining
[23:47] <th> yea the whole klibc initramfs stuff
[23:48] <th> but i want to be able to boot a plain kernel
[23:48] <th> without enriching it with initramfs or handing it initr
[23:48] <th> d
[23:59] <daja77> btw the laptop is up and running 2.6.13 atm
[00:00] --- Tue Aug 30 2005