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[07:37] <blindcoder> netrunner: I see, thanks
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[09:48] Action: netrunner reading about xen
[09:48] <blindcoder> I don't know about all this virtualisation things...
[09:49] <blindcoder> if you need a second machine, get one
[09:54] Action: netrunner likes the idea of having 2 domains on his smp machine.
[09:54] <netrunner> then I could use one as server and one for rock, and leave it switched on.
[09:54] <blindcoder> so xen does in software what sun machines do Right(tm) in hardware?
[09:55] <netrunner> blindcoder: one of the newer intel cpus also supports it.
[09:55] <netrunner> blindcoder: but basically yes.
[09:55] <blindcoder> on the sun servers I handle here you can create domains in terms of system boards and interface boards
[09:56] <blindcoder> not in terms of cpus
[09:56] <netrunner> blindcoder: there's something the cpu needs to support if I understand correctly, which is missing on currently popular intel cpus, but included in the newest generation
[09:58] <blindcoder> yeah, you need a second mainboard and cpu and ram and interface cards ;)
[09:58] <netrunner> no.
[09:59] arty (n=arty@reactos/developer/arty) joined #rocklinux.
[10:00] <th> reactos...
[10:00] <blindcoder> yes, you do.
[10:00] <arty> th: ?
[10:00] <blindcoder> well, I'm not a fan of virtualisation
[10:00] <th> arty: i just meant "hi arty"
[10:00] <arty> ahh hey
[10:00] <blindcoder> actually, I'm 100% convinced that the very idea of virtualisation is fundamentally flawed
[10:01] <arty> blindcoder: virtualization is a very powerful idea
[10:01] <blindcoder> arty: yeah, Java is also a very powerful idea.
[10:01] <blindcoder> sadly, it's still just a powerful idea...
[10:01] <arty> actually it's the basic idea between the equivalence of computing machines of turing power
[10:01] <arty> blindcoder: more than a powerful idea, it's the basis of most computing
[10:02] <arty> but my question is; is there a miniroot for rock similar to the stage tarballs for gentoo?
[10:02] <arty> I'd like to make a rock miniroot I can chroot into and mess with
[10:02] <blindcoder> arty: you can easily create one
[10:02] <arty> specifically, because I've heard that rock has a very nice cross-build environment
[10:03] <th> there is one for stable tree
[10:03] <blindcoder> arty: but I'm not sure if there's a miniroot per se available right now
[10:03] <arty> th: thanks
[10:03] <arty> any pointers how to find it?
[10:03] <blindcoder> should be this one: http://iso.rocklinux.de/default.php?dir=/official/2.0-stable/2.0.3/buildbootstrap/
[10:04] <th> arty: http://iso.rocklinux.de/rock-ftp/official/2.0-stable/pre-release/2.0.4-pre1/buildbootstrap/
[10:04] <arty> thanks
[10:04] <th> 2.0.4-pre1 is not less stable then 2.0.3
[10:04] <blindcoder> th: but not linked to from the website ;)
[10:04] <th> blindcoder: that's bad.
[10:04] <th> blindcoder: that's a bug.
[10:05] Action: arty ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~amd64 4 evar
[10:05] <blindcoder> th: well, only you have access to the site. do something ;)
[10:05] <th> i do?
[10:05] <th> which site?
[10:05] <blindcoder> th: iso.rocklinux.de
[10:05] <th> iso.rl.de?
[10:05] <th> ah
[10:05] <th> i always follow the "http version" link
[10:06] <blindcoder> I see
[10:06] <th> http://iso.rocklinux.de/rock-ftp/
[10:06] <th> perhaps we should add this link to our homepage
[10:06] <blindcoder> or perhaps we should just create the necessary files for the rest of the site
[10:06] <blindcoder> because if you open that page the first thing you see is the navigation to the left
[10:06] <th> true
[10:07] <blindcoder> YAY!
[10:08] <blindcoder> There'll be a new LVP release this weekend :D
[10:08] <blindcoder> kilbourne is almost done compiling ;)
[10:08] <blindcoder> == 09:38:48 =[5]=> Building base/glibc=glibc23 [2.3.6 0].
[10:09] <blindcoder> 95 builds total, 57 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[10:10] <blindcoder> th: could you arrange for other people to be able to write to iso.rl.de, too?
[10:11] <th> blindcoder: guess how i got access to the site
[10:11] <th> blindcoder: i send a mail to our friend over there
[10:11] <th> s/send/sent/
[10:12] <blindcoder> hmm... localhero, wasn't it?
[10:12] <th> exactly
[10:12] <th> btw
[10:12] <th> fake:x:1008:100::/home/fake:/bin/bash
[10:12] <th> rene:x:1002:100::/home/rene:/bin/bash
[10:12] <th> i'm not the only one ;-]
[10:12] <netrunner> th: ok, ask rene to do it :)
[10:12] <th> i've no root access. i can't create accounts
[10:12] <blindcoder> yeah, those are even less available than you are :)
[10:13] Action: blindcoder writing to localhero
[10:13] <th> blindcoder: that's propably because i work here (in IRC).
[10:14] <blindcoder> you work in IRC? what kind of job is that? :)
[10:14] <th> remote sysadmin
[10:14] <th> that's only a part of it.
[10:15] <blindcoder> ah, I see
[10:15] <th> my own company uses irc heavily
[10:15] <th> everything is connected to IRC
[10:15] <blindcoder> well, I practically live here, work or not ;)
[10:15] <th> it's a control center
[10:17] <blindcoder> I see
[10:18] <blindcoder> okay, mail sent
[10:18] <blindcoder> guess I need to go back to work now
[10:18] <blindcoder> bbl
[10:18] <th> cya
[10:26] <netrunner> http://legnangel.livejournal.com/564026.html
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[10:40] <arty> thanks, that's working
[10:43] <owl> moin
[10:45] <netrunner> hi owl
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[10:48] <owl> hi netrunner 
[11:03] <blindcoder> re
[11:11] <blindcoder> well, that's weak
[11:11] <blindcoder> you can't send orders to a openpgp smartcard dealer using gpg encrypted mails...
[11:12] <daja77> hrhr
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[12:17] <arty> hmm i've got a question about the rock package system
[12:17] <arty> gasgui seems to want 00-dirtree, but neither disk i've got has that package
[12:18] <arty> have i done something wrong?
[12:18] <th> arty: i always just extract all packages
[12:18] <th> arty: i never used gasgui
[12:19] <arty> ahh ok
[12:19] <arty> thanks
[12:19] <blindcoder> 00-dirtree is a package that creates the inital directory layout
[12:19] <th> dont forget the ldconfig
[12:19] <arty> since i've already expanded the miniroot i guessed that i didn't need it
[12:19] <arty> just wondering if i could use the tools cleanly
[12:46] <arty> heh don't pipe ./scripts/Config to less!
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[13:00] <arty> i like the mirror detection
[13:01] <netrunner> aah, brother woke up, build machine online :)
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[13:24] <blindcoder> re
[13:24] Action: blindcoder now at home
[13:26] <blindcoder> linux kernel released
[13:29] <netrunner> gngngn
[13:30] <netrunner> it makes almost no sense to follow kernel releases with rock ...
[13:30] <netrunner> not as long as clifford only half-year wise applies submaster patches.
[13:30] <th> what do you mean?
[13:30] <th> ahh i see
[13:30] <th> true
[13:30] <netrunner> what about creating our own subversion tree, that just sends commit's to cliffods submaster?
[13:31] <netrunner> he'd be happy, we'd be happy :)
[13:31] <blindcoder> not with the current speed of patch application...
[13:31] <th> we could create an experimental tree. in the same repository
[13:31] <th> so cliff can merge our changes
[13:32] <netrunner> th: yes. the storage method should just be changed to this experimental tree. so if you sm send, you commit to the experimental tree ...
[13:32] <blindcoder> netrunner: that idea sounds good, but I doubt its political practicability
[13:33] <th> netrunner: you dont need `sm` for that. you just commit to exp
[13:33] <th> and besides: i'd call the exp tree "trunk" and our current trunk "stablization-tree"
[13:33] <netrunner> th: the idea of sm is not the worst, with being able to vote for patches, pull just some ...
[13:34] <netrunner> th: I agree
[13:34] <blindcoder> we could move ROCK to git...
[13:34] <th> netrunner: you can use subversion to store the votes
[13:34] <blindcoder> we discussed this at 22C3
[13:34] <netrunner> blindcoder: I also had that idea. but I don't know all of its features.
[13:34] <th> netrunner: you have properties
[13:34] <blindcoder> the idea of multiple trees is just not feasible with the current number of developers
[13:35] <th> we DO HAVE multiple trees. cause sm is like another tree
[13:35] <netrunner> yes
[13:35] <th> and we would reduce!
[13:35] <blindcoder> unfortunately, The Powers That Be also don't want multiple people to commit to ROCK directly
[13:35] <netrunner> every dev has its own tree at home.
[13:35] <th> now we have stable+trunk+sm
[13:35] <th> we could have exp+stablization
[13:36] <th> and cliffords current journal-builds should happen in the stablization tree
[13:36] <blindcoder> th: did you read the mail regarding the 22c3 decision? there is only 'trunk', nothing else anymore
[13:36] <netrunner> blindcoder: they'd be able to commit to experimental only. after creating user accounts by web interface maybe
[13:36] <th> my two cents
[13:36] <th> blindcoder: yes i did
[13:36] <blindcoder> netrunner: yes, I suggested a commit model back then
[13:36] <th> blindcoder: we dont even `svn copy` for releases?
[13:37] <netrunner> hm, is there anyone besides clifford still supporting the submaster way? :)
[13:37] <th> thus creating a branch
[13:37] <blindcoder> netrunner: clifford did not want anyone else to write to the ROCK subversion repository (save the yet-to-be-installed security team)
[13:37] <blindcoder> th: 'we' don't. clifford does
[13:37] <blindcoder> netrunner: submaster is good. for more than three or four active devs.
[13:37] <netrunner> blindcoder: reason? "My Precious!"[tm] ?
[13:38] <blindcoder> and active committing of patches
[13:38] <blindcoder> netrunner: I don't quite remember, really. IIRC it was the 'stability of the trunk'.
[13:38] <netrunner> blindcoder: it's a pain in the ass if patches grow old as theydo now.
[13:38] <blindcoder> netrunner: tell news...
[13:38] <blindcoder> the current state of the udev/initrd patches is just drain-bramaged
[13:38] <netrunner> blindcoder: well, that's why they should only commit to experimental, which would be merged to trunk if checked.
[13:39] <blindcoder> netrunner: can you please suggest this on the mailinglist? CC'ing clifford so that he actually reads it?
[13:40] <netrunner> blindcoder: what do you think about keeping the sm-tools in place, just that they don't send the patch to the web thing, but commit to an experimental tree?
[13:41] <netrunner> just to avoid many small commits that could be grouped to one.
[13:41] <blindcoder> netrunner: can't say, never used the sm tools
[13:42] <blindcoder> like a hundred udev/initrd submits? :)
[13:42] <blindcoder> sounds good enough to me
[13:43] <th> 13:43:40 < netrunner> just to avoid many small commits that could be grouped to one.
[13:43] <th> i think that is wrong
[13:44] <th> we should not avoid smaller chunks
[13:44] <th> that way you can undo small parts easilty
[13:44] <th> s/ty$/y/
[13:46] <netrunner> th: I just need to hit commit more carefully :)
[13:47] <th> grouping chunkgs just avoids flexibility
[13:50] <daja77_> blindcoder: submaster should be the topic of the bif if we do one
[13:50] <blindcoder> daja77_: it was topic at 22c3, too...
[13:50] <daja77_> it is not bad, but too limited atm
[13:50] <netrunner> daja77_: bif?
[13:50] <daja77_> bof
[13:50] <blindcoder> netrunner: bof
[13:50] <blindcoder> daja77_: you can't get clifford off submaster
[13:50] <blindcoder> daja77_: you could just as well try to stop breathing
[13:52] <netrunner> blindcoder: it's annoying. in rock, I start disliking submaser, in t2 I dislike rene's explosive ego. maybe I switch to gentoo?
[13:52] <blindcoder> netrunner: so you stand exactly in front of the same problem as I do
[13:52] <blindcoder> netrunner: and probably everyone else
[13:52] <blindcoder> netrunner: let me tell you a little theory here
[13:53] <blindcoder> had clifford allowed developers to directly commit to subversion (trusted devs, not just anyone that comes along), rene would be very lonely over in #t2 
[13:56] <blindcoder> okay, I'll be a bit gone now to do some CLT preparations
[13:57] Action: netrunner writing mail to rlml, please reply on it with your opinions when it arrives
[14:03] <netrunner> sent.
[14:09] <blindcoder> netrunner: git was a joke... :(
[14:09] <netrunner> blindcoder: sorry, didn't understand it as such. but why? wasn't it created for distributed development?
[14:10] <blindcoder> sure, but I have absolutely no clue about it ;)
[14:10] <netrunner> :)
[14:10] <blindcoder> all I know about it is that the linux kernel uses it for distributed development
[14:10] <blindcoder> the reason that distributed development works in the linux kernel is that the subprojects are maintained by single persons accumulating patches to it
[14:11] <blindcoder> translated to rock this would mean: people working on initrd would send the patches to _me_ instead of to submaster
[14:11] <blindcoder> I would then sort them out and when I think it's finished, send a patch containing all changes to submaster
[14:11] <blindcoder> hmm
[14:12] <blindcoder> I'm writing this in the wrong window
[14:12] <daja77_> huh?
[14:12] Action: blindcoder alt-tabs to mozilla
[14:12] <blindcoder> daja77_: subprojects meaning: device foo, layer bar, filesystem baz and so on
[14:13] <netrunner> blindcoder: it's basically not so wrong, we have personalized repos - so devs would receive patches for their repos and send them on
[14:13] <blindcoder> daja77_: they don't send dozens of reiserfs patches to linus
[14:13] <blindcoder> netrunner: that's what I suggested at 22C3 and clifford didn't like that
[14:13] <daja77_> i don't remember that discussion
[14:14] <netrunner> blindcoder: at some point clifford should find out that it's not always worst what he doesn't like :)
[14:14] <blindcoder> daja77_: http://doc.rocklinux.org/wiki/SuggestionForNewCommitModel
[14:15] <blindcoder> netrunner: yeah, but I think it'll take a blessed +8 club to teach him
[14:15] <blindcoder> netrunner: and you can't enchant clubs past +7
[14:17] <daja77_> the question is, if people would like to move over to git?
[14:17] <daja77_> imho not the worst idea
[14:18] <blindcoder> I think at this point in time we're small enough to return to the "some devs get write access, the rest sends patches to the mailing list or package maintainer" method
[14:19] <daja77_> nah not the mailinglist crap again
[14:19] <daja77_> submaster collects patches better, so why shouldn't new ones sending them over there
[14:19] <blindcoder> *nod*
[14:19] <blindcoder> daja77_: that's exactly what I suggested
[14:20] <daja77_> let's try
[14:20] <daja77_> the mess is obviuos atm
[14:22] <netrunner> we should have a closer look at git, maybe it fits. but I think the idea with subversion experimental and stabilization is sufficient.
[14:23] <daja77_> so noone can tell which udev patches to use?
[14:23] <netrunner> for unregistered users we could keep submaster, but newcomers would usually just send it to ml. which is as good.
[14:23] <daja77_> no
[14:24] <netrunner> daja77_: I think everything that I have voted pro on is ok, in that order. maybe needs fix to apply ...
[14:24] <daja77_> patches on mailinglists suck and have the tendency to get lost
[14:24] <daja77_> that's why submaster was created
[14:24] <netrunner> daja77_: okok :)
[14:25] <netrunner> daja77_: but think about it that way: if I want to send a patch upstream, I just send it to their mailing list. I usually don't care if they prefer a webinterface or special commit tool or other lube to receive it. 
[14:25] <netrunner> and ml is archived also (lurker) :)
[14:28] <blindcoder> netrunner: well, it's not bad if they send patches to the ml
[14:28] <blindcoder> but Someone(tm) should put those to submaster then
[14:28] <blindcoder> as people tend to do right now
[14:28] <netrunner> blindcoder: that's ok, so they just get lost in submaster and not in ml :)
[14:28] <daja77_> hrhr
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[14:56] <blindcoder> netrunner: replied to
[14:56] Action: blindcoder continues creation of ROCK Promotion Video now
[14:57] <netrunner> blindcoder: containing of? you dancing naked while waiting for build to finish? :)
[14:57] <blindcoder> netrunner: don't bring up stupid ideas. I might implement them
[14:59] <netrunner> build started. will work on including xen now :)
[16:15] <daja77_> == 16:19:22 =[6]=> Building base/ogg-vorbis [1.1.3 0]. <- we have a stage 6?
[16:16] <blindcoder> more or less ;)
[16:16] <daja77_> why is this package build in this stage`
[16:16] <blindcoder> no idea why ogg is built there, though
[16:17] <mnemoc> extra '-' at [P] can switch the stages for that package
[16:17] <mnemoc> shift*
[16:18] <daja77_> 5, 6 and 9 the desc file says
[16:19] <mnemoc> :)
[16:19] <daja77_> it is the only one that builds in 6 hm
[16:20] <mnemoc> to solve a dependency loop i guess
[16:21] <daja77_> probably
[16:23] <blindcoder> ooookay
[16:23] <blindcoder> the setup for the promo video is almost done
[16:23] <blindcoder> all that's left now is animating it
[16:23] <daja77_> show show show ;)
[16:23] <blindcoder> I'm currently rendering a test video
[16:24] <blindcoder> don't expect too much though, it's really simplistic
[16:24] <blindcoder> I mean... _REALLY_ simplistic
[16:24] <blindcoder> it is... a blackbox ;)
[16:25] <daja77_> hm
[16:27] <blindcoder> behold, ye mighty, and despair: http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/test.mp4 (84 kB)
[16:28] <daja77_> you are doin opengl?
[16:28] <blindcoder> nonononono
[16:29] <blindcoder> it's a *cough*old commercial*cough* application for *cough* windows 3.x and newer *cough* that I happen to have a licence for and know how to use
[16:29] <daja77_> hehe
[16:29] <blindcoder> but don't tell anyone ;)
[16:30] <mnemoc> :)
[16:30] <blindcoder> there's also an 'intro' part that is already done rendering
[16:31] <daja77_> blindcoder: we don't have to,you are pwned due the irc logs and google
[16:32] <blindcoder> <vader>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO</vader>
[16:32] <daja77_> ;)
[16:32] Action: blindcoder hacks murphy and removes the logs
[16:32] Action: blindcoder hacks google and removes the logs
[16:32] Action: blindcoder hacks dajas brain and removes the logs
[16:32] <daja77_> you forgot mnemoc 
[16:33] <mnemoc> :)
[16:33] <mnemoc> the latency wont let you hack me :)
[16:33] <blindcoder> intro to the video: http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/intro.mp4 (2.5 MB)
[16:34] Action: daja77_ leeching
[16:35] <blindcoder> I really want to give the video a voice-over but I can't get the sound and video into sync :(
[16:35] <blindcoder> so instead I'll just put in subtitles
[16:35] <daja77_> well for clt no sound is better anyway
[16:35] <blindcoder> daja77_: I intended to put headphones there
[16:36] <daja77_> hm
[16:36] <blindcoder> daja77_: got the vid?
[16:37] <daja77_> lots of logo pieces ;)
[16:37] <blindcoder> hehe
[16:37] <mnemoc> what's the idea?
[16:38] <blindcoder> do you know how long it took me to create the crystal object for that >_<
[16:38] <blindcoder> mnemoc: I want to have a video that explains why ROCK is not a distribution
[16:38] <blindcoder> and what you can do with it instead of just installing and webbrowsing
[16:38] <mnemoc> ic
[16:39] <mnemoc> that will be looooooot of work :)
[16:39] <blindcoder> and I want to project that to the wall with my video projector at CLT
[16:39] <blindcoder> mnemoc: well, I have a few ideas that are IMO suited to explain _what_ it can do
[16:40] <daja77_> go on :)
[16:40] <blindcoder> the _how_ isn't interesting in that moment
[16:40] <daja77_> yep
[16:42] <mnemoc> did you 'draw' those ideas before making the animation, or you are 'expressing yourself' directly on video?
[16:50] <blindcoder> mnemoc: I did bring the objects to paper
[16:50] <blindcoder> mnemoc: but not the animation per se, I create that directly in the program
[17:06] <netrunner> 17:07 builder:      finished job '2-attr' (ERROR)
[17:06] <netrunner> 17:08 builder:      finished job '2-acl' (ERROR)
[17:06] <netrunner> :/
[17:07] <daja77_> oh why
[17:07] <netrunner> FATAL ERROR: libtool does not seem to be installed.
[17:07] <netrunner> ./scripts/Build-Pkg: line 270: libtoolize: command not found
[17:07] <daja77_> O_o
[17:08] <netrunner> libtool is only built in stage 3
[17:32] <blindcoder> *phew*
[17:32] <blindcoder> 770 images to render
[17:32] <blindcoder> at 800x600
[17:33] <daja77_> :)
[17:34] <blindcoder> first I'll render at 160x120 to see if it works out :)
[17:37] <netrunner> hi
[17:38] blindcod1r (n=blindcod@tor/session/x-b3067d94f625360e) joined #rocklinux.
[17:38] blindcoder (n=blindcod@tor/session/x-c66e430a1832375e) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[17:39] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[17:39] <blindcoder> daja77_: ping
[17:39] <blindcoder> daja77_: http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/main.mp4 (177 kB)
[17:39] <blindcoder> daja77_: comments?
[17:43] <daja77_> hm i somehow don't get the message
[17:43] <blindcoder> yeah, the subtitles are still missing
[17:43] <blindcoder> basically, it goes like this:
[17:43] <blindcoder> "This is the blackbox called ROCK."
[17:43] <blindcoder> "Put in some packages (scripts/Config)"
[17:44] <daja77_> ah a black box
[17:44] <blindcoder> "select how the blackbox should handle things (scripts/Config)" (changing the colors)
[17:44] <blindcoder> "start the magic" (pull lever)
[17:44] <daja77_> ^^
[17:44] <blindcoder> "wait for it to finish" (packages vanishing)
[17:44] <blindcoder> "get your finished linux solution"
[17:45] <blindcoder> you think it's fine?
[17:45] <blindcoder> together with the flying logos
[17:45] <blindcoder> the text under the logos should become:
[17:45] <blindcoder> "${distribution}" (for each logo)
[17:46] <daja77_> with subtitles it is ok
[17:46] <blindcoder> "If somebody told you that ROCK Linux is just like any other distribution out there..." (logos sitting there)
[17:46] <blindcoder> "Somebody lied." (logos turning around)
[17:46] Action: daja77_ off
[17:46] <blindcoder> :(
[17:46] <blindcoder> WAIT
[17:46] <blindcoder> one last question!
[17:47] <blindcoder> daja77_: do you think it's okay to have a ROCK logo on the back of the crystals when they turn around?
[17:48] <mnemoc> that's what i expected the first time i saw your intro
[17:48] <blindcoder> ah
[17:48] <blindcoder> okay ;)
[17:49] <blindcoder> I'll do it :)
[17:49] <mnemoc> :)
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[18:40] Action: netrunner expected a ROCK logo to falll from top and stomp all others away :)
[18:41] <mnemoc> that's violent
[18:46] Action: netrunner using ccache for a try ...
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[18:51] <blindcoder> okay, now the logo is on the back ;0
[18:51] <blindcoder> ;)
[18:52] <blindcoder> I also fixed some of the logos
[18:59] <daja77_> :)
[19:01] <blindcoder> http://scavenger.homeip.net/~blindcoder/intro.mp4
[19:01] <blindcoder> 400 kB
[19:01] <mnemoc> same name?
[19:02] <blindcoder> yes
[19:02] <blindcoder> I just overwrite them 
[19:03] <daja77_> nice
[19:03] <mnemoc> imo the per-crystal initial delay is too large, and the final delay is also too^3 large
[19:04] <blindcoder> it's 5 frames, so 0.333 seconds
[19:04] <blindcoder> mnemoc: yes, the final will be cropped
[19:05] <blindcoder> mnemoc: since the main video will start there
[19:05] <mnemoc> ic
[19:05] <mnemoc> feels longer
[19:06] <blindcoder> well, once the subtitles are there it will feel shorter
[19:06] <blindcoder> because then you have to read them ;)
[19:07] <mnemoc> :)
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[19:38] <nookie> what does dasch na dasch in german or english mean?
[19:40] <mnemoc> leo doesn't know :p
[19:40] <blindcoder> dasch na dasch o_O
[19:40] <daja77_> i don't know what it means at all
[19:41] <nookie> mm
[19:41] <nookie> bad
[19:41] <nookie> girl send me song "dasch na dasch" from "belie teni"
[19:41] <blindcoder> that's no language I'd recognize
[19:41] <nookie> it's russian
[19:41] <nookie> but i don't speak russian
[19:41] <nookie> :)
[19:41] <blindcoder> ah
[19:42] <blindcoder> ask netrunner 
[19:42] <nookie> netrunner: 
[19:42] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
[19:42] <nookie> :D
[20:01] <arty> hmm i've got a question; there doesn't seem to be a powerpc selection under 'cross toolchain creation'
[20:02] <arty> I've likely done something wrong
[20:02] <arty> but not sure what
[20:02] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux was doing some work on cross compiling, but let me have a look
[20:03] <arty> hmm
[20:03] <blindcoder>   ? ?                                                                        [ ]    Build powerpc cross toolchain                                                                            ? ?
[20:03] <arty> hmm ok
[20:03] <blindcoder> second to last option
[20:04] <arty> hmm mine has sparc, sparc64, mips, mipsel, mips64, mips64el, i386
[20:04] <arty> i installed the rock-src package from the crystal disc
[20:05] <arty> (well i think that's where these files come from anyway)
[20:05] <blindcoder> arty: which crystal disc? it might be outdated
[20:06] <blindcoder> try a subversion checkout
[20:06] <arty> crystal-rock-x86-rev6945-experimental.iso
[20:06] <blindcoder> svn co svn://www.rocklinux.org/rock-linux/trunk rock-linux
[20:06] <blindcoder> hmm
[20:06] <arty> ok thanks
[20:06] <blindcoder> that's the current one
[20:06] <arty> admittedly what i want to do is a little wierd
[20:06] <arty> but i read some howtos about crossbuilding on the rock site
[20:06] <arty> so i thought it would be best
[20:08] <blindcoder> arty: do you have powerpc selected as architecture?
[20:08] <arty> yes
[20:08] <blindcoder> then you can't create a cross toolchain for it
[20:08] <blindcoder> the option will be simply left out
[20:08] <arty> hmm but I'm running all of this on x86
[20:08] <arty> i see
[20:08] <blindcoder> which is actually bad :(
[20:09] <blindcoder> arty: so, select PowerPC and "This is a cross build between architectures"
[20:09] <arty> ya i selected that
[20:09] <blindcoder> that's enough
[20:09] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: a cross-tool chain that runs on PPC and compiles for PPC doesn't make much sense...
[20:09] <arty> hmm i'm trying the rock-src package from the other image i have
[20:10] <blindcoder> reading the code, I'm not quite sure what this "Cross Toolchain Creation" is
[20:10] <arty> stf^ i see
[20:10] <arty> I guess i missed something
[20:10] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: yes, but why the config option at all?
[20:10] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: I can just select ppc, this is a crossbuild, and run scripts/Build-Tools
[20:10] <arty> generally i want it to build powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu
[20:10] <arty> -gcc
[20:10] <arty> then use it to build a kernel and some packages
[20:10] <stf^rocklinux> the cross-tool chain creation allows to create gems containing cross-tools
[20:11] <blindcoder> ah
[20:11] <stf^rocklinux> gems=binary packages
[20:11] <arty> ya
[20:11] <arty> so I should use the builder to build powerpc toolchain with arch set on x86 first
[20:11] <arty> then use that newly installed compiler and switch arch to powerpc for the rest of the build?
[20:11] <blindcoder> ehm... no
[20:11] <blindcoder> you should do:
[20:12] <blindcoder> set architecture to ppc
[20:12] <blindcoder> set this is a cross build between architectures
[20:12] <blindcoder> run ./scripts/Build-Target
[20:12] <blindcoder> this will leave you with a chrootable environment, cross compiler and NO KERNEL
[20:12] <arty> ok
[20:12] <stf^rocklinux> erm, afaik the linux26 kernel does  cross-compile...
[20:12] <blindcoder> you can then use this cross compiler to cross compile a kernel manually
[20:13] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: yes, but is this done automatically?
[20:13] <arty> ok
[20:13] <stf^rocklinux> let me see...
[20:13] Action: arty gives it a shot with the 2.0.4 rock-src
[20:13] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: because the cc howto specifically mentions that there's no kernel there
[20:14] <blindcoder> arty: you really should use the svn checkout
[20:14] <arty> ok
[20:18] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: the linux26 kernel is not selected for cross-builds by default, because it is "not known" to cross-compile
[20:18] <blindcoder> see ;)
[20:19] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: but from what i've read on the net, it should work for most architectures (you'd have to change the [P] tag of linux.desc)
[20:20] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: yeah, but I'd guess the kernel will need special treatment in the .conf file
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[20:25] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: not really. If you cross-compile the kernel yourself, you also need to set only 2 environment variables and the path to the cross-tool chain...
[20:25] <blindcoder> true...
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 11 2006