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[00:09] <th> "works"?
[00:09] <th> it's meant to be copied
[00:12] <fake> i thought it's copied by udevd 
[00:12] <fake> nevermind
[00:25] <th> 334 builds total, 205 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[00:26] <fake> th: is that the one from before?
[00:26] <fake> th: quite fast...
[00:26] <th> sure it is
[00:26] <fake> now it's time for kde-* and koffice, hehehe
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[01:16] <th> uh - crystal is building qt33 and qt40?
[01:16] <fake> o_O
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[01:58] <fake> th:
[01:58] <fake> ping
[02:16] <th> pong
[02:16] <th> sorry for the delay
[02:16] <th> still there, fake?
[02:16] <fake> th: don't you thing syslogd/klogd belongs into minimal.set ?
[02:16] <fake> err, basic.set ?
[02:16] <th> no
[02:16] <fake> okay
[02:17] <th> i dont even think that it belongs into bbs
[02:17] <th> (which is a superset thereof)
[02:19] <th> 334 builds total, 229 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[02:21] <fake> udev patch is coming along just fine.
[02:22] <th> https://www.club-mate-shop.de
[02:23] <fake> ARGH!
[02:23] <fake> deutschlandweiter
[02:23] <fake> argh argh argh!
[02:23] <th> da zaehlt doch oesterreich bestimmt dazu ;)
[02:24] <fake> die seite is ja urcool bitte
[02:24] <th> https://www.club-mate-shop.de/folderblog/fb.php?p=image/micra_versand/
[02:25] <th> 334 builds total, 231 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[02:25] <th> go go go 
[02:25] <fake> hihi, erinnert mich an was ;)
[02:27] <fake> oops... export LANG=C
[02:30] <fake> i just ordered to vienna... let's see...
[02:57] <th> ok i better be off now
[03:05] <fake> kay, n8 th
[03:29] <fake> i guess we can remove the CORE flag from devfsd ... *sigh*... sad
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[07:30] <blindcoder> moin
[07:37] <fake> moin blindcoder 
[07:37] <fake> and n8
[07:38] <blindcoder> heh
[07:39] <fake> have a nice day ;)
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[10:45] <th> moin
[10:45] <th> 334 builds total, 325 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[10:45] <th> damn that qt+kde takes a good load of time
[11:06] <th> build will finish any minute now.
[11:08] <th> == 11:10:34 =[7]=> Building base/man-pages [2.17 0].
[11:08] <th> yea - go go go 
[11:12] <th> 334 builds total, 334 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[11:33] <blindcoder> sweet
[11:36] <th> ok - iso is transferring to my machine to be tested,
[11:36] <th> next build is already started
[11:36] <th> this time only boot+bbs
[11:37] <th> which is fake's plus my journal merged.
[11:47] <esden> moin 
[11:47] <esden> ping blindcoder 
[11:48] <blindcoder> esden: pong
[11:48] <esden> blindcoder: I have problems with pallas
[11:48] <blindcoder> define problems
[11:48] <esden> see query
[11:57] <owl> moin
[12:23] <blindcoder> moin owl
[12:32] <esden> moin owl 
[14:06] <owl> hi esden , blindcoder 
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[14:29] <th> clifford: smng making progress?
[14:36] <th> fake: ping
[14:56] <clifford> th: yep.
[14:56] <clifford> but not very fast.. ;-)
[14:56] <th> clifford: i'm so thrilled ;)
[14:57] <th> clifford: btw - do you have any builds running yourself?
[14:57] <th> clifford: seems that fake and me are making good progress.
[15:00] <daja77_> need a hand in running builds?
[15:00] <blindcoder> yes, it finally feels like steady progress again \o/
[15:02] <th> daja77_: perhaps you could investigate the /opt/kde -> /usr change?
[15:02] <th> daja77_: the desktop-files issue?
[15:03] <daja77_> uhm have to read again what the issue was
[15:03] <blindcoder> the way things go now I think I can rm -rf /home/svn/rock-community/
[15:03] <th> it's on rock-devel
[15:03] <daja77_> th: i know, mom
[15:08] <daja77_> i am blind i don't find it
[15:10] <daja77_> ah now
[15:15] <blindcoder> narf, I hate this proxy...
[15:15] <blindcoder> it doesn't resolve domain names unless they have at least three dots
[15:16] <blindcoder> so rocklinux.org. doesn't resolve
[15:16] <blindcoder> but www.rocklinux.org. does
[15:21] <owl> aren't you admin there?
[15:21] <blindcoder> at siemens?
[15:21] <daja77_> zfone beta for linux and macos ^^
[15:21] <owl> hrm. 
[15:21] <blindcoder> thank god I'm not!
[15:31] <blindcoder> th: strange... I never do anything more than the X -configure
[15:32] <th> it's a vmware
[15:32] <th> i think it works with option 3.)
[15:36] <blindcoder> vmware works in lvp
[15:36] <blindcoder> though with a resolution 'jenseits von gut und boese' :)
[15:39] <th> well
[15:39] <th> so what's different there?
[15:42] <blindcoder> X linked statically
[15:43] <th> cant make that difference
[15:43] <th> old vmware?
[15:44] <blindcoder> mabye
[15:56] <stf^rocklinux> hm, I get errors compiling the qemu 0.8.0 i386-user, arm-user and sparc-user emulators with gcc34 ...
[15:57] <daja77_> +var_append confopt " " "--target-list=i386-softmmu"
[15:57] <daja77_> my current qemu.conf diff ..
[15:57] <stf^rocklinux> daja: wouldn't that only build the i386-softmmu emulator?
[15:58] <daja77_> yes ..
[15:58] <stf^rocklinux> daja: to work around the errors, I used the complete target list without the offending ones...
[15:58] <daja77_> ok
[15:58] <stf^rocklinux> which is: --target-list=armeb-user,ppc-user,mips-user,mipsel-user,i386-softmmu,ppc-softmmu,sparc-softmmu,x86_64-softmmu,mips-softmmu,arm-softmmu
[15:59] <stf^rocklinux> didn't find any info about it in the QEMU forum, though...
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[17:16] <daja77> *sigh*
[17:19] <th> fake: ping!
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[17:56] <th> oh
[17:56] <th> grub-1.92
[17:56] <th> that's pretty much different to me
[17:56] <th> compared with 0.96 in stable
[17:56] <th> is there no menu.list file any longer?
[17:56] <th> do i have to create images?
[17:57] <daja77> menu.lst is obsolete, it is called grib.conf iirc
[17:57] <th> where will i find that file?
[17:57] <daja77> /boot/grub
[17:58] <th> ahh .cfg
[17:58] <th> so what is grub-mkimage doing?
[17:58] <th> "Make a bootable image of GRUB"
[17:58] <th> gmm
[17:58] <th> hm
[17:58] <th> is it still all about stage 1 1.5 and 2?
[17:59] <th> there are MODULES now.
[17:59] <daja77> yep
[17:59] <th> damn i need a crash-course
[17:59] <daja77> and without them it can't do anything
[17:59] <th> it reads them from filesystem?
[17:59] <th> or must it be in some image?
[17:59] <daja77> image
[17:59] <th> only option?
[18:00] <th> is that image the former stage2?
[18:00] <daja77> ask blindy or clifford which modules you need
[18:00] <th> that's not my concern right now. i try to understand the general architecture of it.
[18:01] <daja77> ok
[18:01] <daja77> i think so, but i am no expert in grub2
[18:01] <th> i saw the installer create an image
[18:01] <daja77> yes
[18:01] <th> that's propably stage2
[18:01] <th> that would sort of rock
[18:02] <th> one had to rebuild grub for changes in 0.96
[18:02] <th> there were these 1.5 stages for different filesystems
[18:02] <th> i guess that's where the modules come from
[18:10] <daja77> argh
[18:29] <SMP> you link a number of modules into a grub image that gets booted. provided you have the necessary modules linked in, you will also be able to load more modules at runtime from the filesystem
[18:30] <SMP> it's all very flaky and undocumented, thus my resistance about adopting grub2 back when it was committed
[18:31] <th> i see
[18:37] <daja77> this is interesting stf's kernel update results in a cksum error 
[18:39] <stf^rocklinux> daja: that's probably because I created the download files manually with (old version & update patch)
[18:39] <stf^rocklinux> daja: my internet connection is to slow atm for full downloads ...
[18:39] <stf^rocklinux> daja: feel free to rediff my kernel update patch :)
[18:39] <daja77> well but in that case the cksums are always different
[18:39] <daja77> so better supply no cksum
[18:41] <stf^rocklinux> daja: ok
[18:41] <daja77> even when you unpack the archive and repack it, the cksum is different ;)
[18:42] <daja77> don't worry
[18:42] <stf^rocklinux> daja: with xdelta diffs it would have worked ^^
[18:42] <daja77> :)
[18:45] <daja77> cat: package/base/wine/wine.desc
[18:45] <daja77> no such file or directory
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[20:31] <th> !> Please create a man page for this tool.
[20:31] <th> what's this?
[20:33] <daja77> O_o
[21:14] <th> ln: creating symbolic link `/lib/udev/devices/fd/fd' to `/proc/self/fd': No such file or directory
[21:14] <blindcoder> -f
[21:15] <blindcoder> hm, no
[21:15] <th> yea
[21:15] <th> you see that it's wrong
[21:15] <blindcoder> yes
[21:15] <th>         ln -sv /proc/self/fd $root/lib/udev/devices/fd
[21:15] <th> i bet $root/lib/udev/devices/fd already exists as directory
[21:15] <blindcoder> yes
[21:15] <th> so it should be checked for existence first
[21:16] <th> but where does it come from?
[21:28] <th> ahh
[21:29] <th> propably because of prior stage
[21:29] <th> cause i do stage9
[21:32] <th> perhaps it would be better to remove the whole devices directory before starting to fill it
[21:32] <blindcoder> perhaps not
[21:32] <th> why?
[21:33] <blindcoder> there are devices that lack code for device node creation but provide the node anyway
[21:33] <blindcoder> how would we create them sanely?
[21:33] <th> haeh?
[21:33] <th> you did not understand
[21:33] <th> i'm talking of creating /lib/udev/devices/
[21:34] <blindcoder> yes
[21:34] <blindcoder> so what would be a sane way of creating device nodes for faulty modules?
[21:34] <th> mknod
[21:34] <th> i dont see the problem you see
[21:35] <blindcoder> where? manually via initrd plugins?
[21:35] <th> are you talking of devices you need in early initrd stage?
[21:35] <th> or later in productive stage?
[21:36] <blindcoder> both
[21:36] <blindcoder> especially my cm_4000
[21:36] <th> what's that?
[21:36] <blindcoder> pcmcia cardreader
[21:37] <th> ok.
[21:37] <th> so you want a device for it in /dev
[21:37] <th> so you want to have the device in /lib/udev/devices, right?
[21:37] <blindcoder> yes
[21:37] <blindcoder> well, that's what that directory is for, isn't it?
[21:37] <th> so you need to modify your initrd, right?
[21:37] <th>   - The content of /lib/udev/devices directory which contains the nodes,
[21:37] <th>     symlinks and directories, which are always expected to be in /dev, should
[21:37] <th>     be copied over to the tmpfs mounted /dev, to provide the required nodes
[21:37] <th>     to initialize udev and continue booting.
[21:37] <th> it's not for faulty devices (only)
[21:38] <blindcoder> hmm, okay
[21:38] <blindcoder> then I guess I can use a initrd plugin to call mknod and put a 'this is sane' tag on it :)
[21:38] <th> but keep on playing this game. you need to modify your initrd in any case, cause you need it in stage1, right?
[21:38] <blindcoder> yes
[21:39] <blindcoder> for reading a gnupg card, reading the key from it and using it to decrypt the key holding the passphrase for my filesystem :)
[21:39] <th> the point is: what is the problem if i rm -rf /lib/udev/devices/ in the udev.conf?
[21:39] <th> it makes no difference
[21:39] <blindcoder> yes
[21:40] <blindcoder> I was thinking about hooking into that call to create device nodes for these cases from the udev package
[21:40] <th> so please explain again to me: what's the problem with removing that directory before filling it?
[21:40] <th> from the udev package
[21:40] <th> hmmmmm
[21:40] <th> so you create your hooks and then build udev?
[21:40] <th> i think it should happen when you create your initrd
[21:41] <blindcoder> okay, so much for initrd
[21:41] <th> so like mkinitrd just copies devices in /l/u/devices
[21:41] <blindcoder> now suppose i don't use it in initrd
[21:41] <th> yea
[21:41] <th> so what's our scenario now?
[21:41] <blindcoder> or I have filled that directory with custom nodes and then rocket emerge udev
[21:42] <th> obviously you dont need it in stage1
[21:42] <th> then there is this strange backup-before-build mechanism, no?
[21:42] <blindcoder> I'm not familiar with that mechanism
[21:43] <blindcoder> scenario:
[21:43] <blindcoder> install system
[21:43] <th> neither am i - but you always have this problem
[21:43] <th> if you copy/create config files for example
[21:43] <blindcoder> yse
[21:43] <blindcoder> yes
[21:43] <th> that's not specific to udev
[21:43] <th> ok install system
[21:43] <th> go ahead
[21:43] <blindcoder> but I don't think we do rm -rf ${root}/important/directory somewhere
[21:43] <blindcoder> install system
[21:43] <blindcoder> go to /lib/udev/devices
[21:43] <blindcoder> create a dozen-odd custom nodes
[21:43] <blindcoder> rocket emerge udev
[21:43] <blindcoder> rm -rf /lib/udev/devices
[21:44] <th> ok - understood
[21:44] <blindcoder> will the backup mechanism keep my nodes?
[21:44] <th> i dont know. but wait
[21:44] <th>   - The content of /lib/udev/devices directory which contains the nodes,
[21:44] <th>     symlinks and directories, which are always expected to be in /dev, should
[21:44] <th>     be copied over to the tmpfs mounted /dev, to provide the required nodes
[21:44] <th>     to initialize udev and continue booting.
[21:44] <th> let's read it again
[21:44] <th> and again
[21:44] <th> i think it is meant as a bare necessaty skeleton
[21:44] <th> AND...
[21:45] <th> we require a mechanism of copying this while booting
[21:45] <th> so we do mount /dev
[21:45] <th> cp /lib/udev/devices /dev
[21:45] <th> why not hook something after that?
[21:45] <th> /lib/udev/user-devices
[21:45] <blindcoder> hmm
[21:45] <blindcoder> either that
[21:46] <th> i always want to have a SANE skeleton
[21:46] <blindcoder> or put in a file called 'WARNING' which explains how to set up devices correctly without having to fear that a package update will kill them
[21:46] <th> yea
[21:46] <blindcoder> ie: /etc/conf/initrd and /etc/rcS.d
[21:46] <th> so a WARNING should be placed when doing rm -rf
[21:46] <th> i agree
[21:46] <th> well i'm not too sure that rm -rf would be a good idea
[21:47] <th> neither am i sure where to put user nodes
[21:47] <th> perhaps /etc/conf/udev.d
[21:47] <blindcoder> [ -e /lib/udev/devices/$device ] || mknod ?
[21:47] <th> (scripts for bootup)
[21:47] <th> blindcoder: that's (test -e) is how i currently fixed it
[22:07] <th> btw...
[22:07] <th> why are we creating links here? and not nodes?
[22:08] <th> oh
[22:08] <th> it's links to /proc
[22:08] <th> no matter
[22:08] <th> stupid me
[22:14] <stf^rocklinux> th, blindcoder: /lib/udev/devices should contain entries for devices that never generate a hotplug event (like initial console, but also buggy drivers)
[22:14] <stf^rocklinux> s/should/is meant to/
[22:18] <th> and proc symlinks?
[22:21] <stf^rocklinux> it's for symlinks too
[22:22] <th> ok. then everything is fine
[22:26] <stf^rocklinux> IMO /lib/udev/devices files should also be copied to /dev during udev build
[22:26] <stf^rocklinux> so you can e.g. boot with init=/bin/bash
[22:27] <blindcoder> during build?
[22:27] <blindcoder> that won't help you much after a reboot
[22:29] <stf^rocklinux> yes so there is always a minimal static /dev directory, even when udev is not started in init
[22:30] <th> uhhhh hwscan did not detect BusLogic
[22:37] <th> ok - and our installer is broken. i've IDE+SCSI disk in my system and i only see the IDE disk in the installer
[22:40] <blindcoder> that'd be still the udev scripts?
[22:43] <th> ugh i was wrong
[22:43] <th> it has nothing to do with only one of two is displayed
[22:43] <th> the scsi disk is not displayed even if alone
[22:44] <th> yea propably it's searched somewhere, where we have no symlink
[22:44] <blindcoder> anyway
[22:44] <th> i dont know how the installer searches
[22:44] <blindcoder> sleep happens
[22:44] <th> to whom?
[22:44] <blindcoder> it searches in /dev/discs/ only
[22:44] <th> to the weak?
[22:44] <th> /dev/discs?
[22:44] <th> that must die
[22:44] <th> (not the /dev/discs/)
[22:45] <th> (only the fact that that's the place for the search)
[22:45] <blindcoder> why? it should contain all discs
[22:45] <blindcoder> aaanyway
[22:45] <blindcoder> sleep happens to me now
[22:45] <blindcoder> bye
[22:45] <th> /dev/disks is old
[22:45] <th> and obsolete
[22:45] <th> not that i dislike it
[22:46] <th> but it should not be our primary source of information
[22:46] <th> perhaps something in /sys
[22:46] <th> or /proc/partitions
[22:50] <th> 22:47:10 < blindcoder> it searches in /dev/discs/ only
[22:50] <th> that's plain wrong.
[22:50] <th> i've no /dev/discs/ at all - and it found the IDE
[22:52] <th> i bet it is /dev/{ide,scsi}
[22:52] <th> and our scsi is messed cause of our bad udev helper scripts
[23:03] <th> ok - i think the disk-offering part needs a complete rewrite.
[23:05] <stf^rocklinux> hm...
[23:07] <th> it's some sort of /dev/discs/* and black magic.
[23:08] <th> i think it could be based on /proc/partitions
[23:08] <th> or something in sys
[23:08] <th> /sys that is
[23:09] <stf^rocklinux> look in target/bootdisk/linuxrc.sh, getcdromdevice ()
[23:09] <stf^rocklinux>   devicelists="/dev/cdroms/* /dev/floppy/*"
[23:09] <stf^rocklinux> these devices are scanned and added to the list in stage 1
[23:10] <th> there must be more
[23:10] <th> somewhere
[23:10] <th> my ide disk was in without any /dev/discs
[23:10] <th> (i'm talking of the very first dialog, where you define the partitions and mount poitns)
[23:11] <stf^rocklinux> ah, in stone
[23:11] <th> yea
[23:13] <stf^rocklinux> you mean here: Partitioning your discs
[23:13] <stf^rocklinux> This dialog allows you to modify your discs partition layout and to create filesystems and swap space - as well as mounting
[23:13] <stf^rocklinux> / activating it. Everything you can do using this tool can also be done manually on the command line.
[23:13] <th> yea
[23:13] <stf^rocklinux> that's in /etc/stone.d/mod_install.sh
[23:13] <th> yes
[23:13] <th> i know.
[23:13] <th> i had a look
[23:14] <th> found the place and it looked like it's only using /dev/discs/
[23:14] <th> which cant be true
[23:15] <th> i tried to ignore all this. accepted the "No hard-disk found" and went over to install
[23:15] <th> fdisking by hand and mounting at /mnt/target
[23:15] <th> but guess what.
[23:15] <th> it refuses somehow to mount my cdrom
[23:15] <stf^rocklinux> ?
[23:15] <th> i did that by hand.
[23:15] <th> and installer always umounts it
[23:15] <stf^rocklinux> so what device node is created for your discs?
[23:16] <th> /dev/sda2
[23:17] <th> /dev/sda{,1,2}
[23:17] <th> to be exact
[23:17] <th> and even /dev/scsi/.../{generic,part1,part2} (no disc)
[23:17] <th> uhh and the installer fails to install tar.bz2... only knows about gems i assume
[23:22] <th> ok i did the foreach-tar thingie...
[23:23] blindcod1r (n=blindcod@tor/session/x-3f8baf35a8f82303) joined #rocklinux.
[23:24] blindcoder (n=blindcod@tor/session/x-54f816fd3258942b) left irc: Nick collision from services.
[23:24] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[23:27] <th> " ** dumping you into an emergency shell"    THANKS that's a beginning
[23:30] <th> where am i?
[23:30] <th> some sort of stage1
[23:30] <th> there is no "modprobe" to load BusLogic
[23:31] <fake> th: one cigarette and i'm all yours
[23:32] <th> fake: great!
[23:32] <fake> th: that 'dumping you' is from the initrd.
[23:32] <fake> th: if you need to load a module, you have to either select it in the stone dialog, or add it to /etc/conf/kernel
[23:32] <fake> th: after that run 'mkinitrd' again.
[23:32] <fake> th: then the module will be included in the initrd....
[23:33] <fake> th: (selecting it in the stone hardware dialog adds it to /etc/conf/kernel, so...)
[23:33] <th> i should do that after extracting my tars which the installer could not?
[23:33] <th> i had to SIGINT stone
[23:33] <fake> th: the gasgui installer is for .gem packages
[23:33] <th> ok
[23:33] <fake> th: the bize installer is for .tar.bz2 packages
[23:34] <th> bize was not offered to me
[23:34] <fake> th: you don't have it in your package selection i assume
[23:34] <th> might be
[23:34] <th> is.
[23:34] <fake> (though i never tried bize...)
[23:35] <fake> th: lemme just have cigarette, then i'll go over my scrollback
[23:35] <th> yea
[23:36] <th> ok - so it seems i'm stuck in my initrd cause i forgot to add BusLogic module
[23:42] <fake> th: teamspeak?
[23:42] <fake> nope
[23:42] <fake> argh
[23:42] <fake> wrong window
[23:42] <stf^rocklinux> th: can you access the CD-ROM? maybe the module is on the CD?
[23:44] <th> stf^rocklinux: well i'll just boot from the boot-target and add the module
[23:45] <fake> brb
[23:46] <fake> si
[23:46] <fake> so
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 16 2006