[00:09] <stf^rocklinux> gn8
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[06:50] <owl> moin
[07:28] <blindcoder> moin
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[10:02] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[10:14] <th> morning
[10:14] <th> 335 builds total, 335 completed fine, 0 with errors.
[10:14] <blindcoder> moin th
[10:22] <th> iso is uploading
[10:22] <th> vanilla 7333
[10:25] <blindcoder> sweet
[10:25] <blindcoder> say
[10:25] <blindcoder> to use jobber
[10:25] <blindcoder> jabber
[10:25] <blindcoder> do I need to setup my own server?
[10:26] <th> nope
[10:26] <th> in fact you can use googletalk
[10:29] <blindcoder> don't have a google account, really
[10:30] <owl> aaaaeh? centericq -> register new account e.g?
[10:30] <blindcoder> I already have an ICQ account, thanks
[10:30] <owl> there is an jabber-account-option, too....... 
[10:30] <th> owl: but you need a server for jabber.
[10:30] <owl> .oO( at least if you open your eyes and watch... )
[10:31] <th> owl: cause the server information is not hidden from the users as it is with icq.
[10:31] <owl> th: yeah, jabber.com or something... automatically registers there... 
[10:31] <th> owl: and this is sick.
[10:31] <owl> why?
[10:31] <th> owl: cause it continues the suckiness of icq that way
[10:31] <th> owl: registering all in one place
[10:31] <th> making the server a SPOF
[10:32] <owl> hrm
[10:32] <raphael_wels> you can register at any server
[10:32] <owl> yes... if you have on...
[10:32] <raphael_wels> there are basically lot's of jabber servers out there
[10:32] <th> yes
[10:32] <th> jabber.de.cw.net
[10:32] <raphael_wels> well, I have an account on jabber.pilgerer.de for example
[10:32] <th> or googletalk
[10:32] <th> blindcoder: well - then get an invitation ;)
[10:32] Action: raphael_wels is _not_ related to the content on www.pilgerer.de
[10:36] <raphael_wels> th, with IRC you also have (basically) a SPOF
[10:36] <th> no
[10:36] <th> raphael_wels: irc is a network of hubs
[10:37] <blindcoder> freenode, oftc, quakenet, ircnet
[10:37] <raphael_wels> well, so is jabber, no?
[10:37] <blindcoder> lots of irc networks
[10:37] <th> raphael_wels: yes. jabber is fine.
[10:38] <raphael_wels> th, yes, I know, many IRC networks, but I thought you meant the technical aspect of ... like, all users on freenode are connected (in theory) to one server
[10:39] <th> raphael_wels: freenode is more than one server.
[10:40] <raphael_wels> yes, that's what I meant with "in theory", there are also jabber servers that can be connected to one bigger virtual server
[10:41] <raphael_wels> and... jabber networks can connect to each other, (AFAIK) this is not possible between irc networks
[10:41] <raphael_wels> but anyway, I don't want to flamewar about anything, just wanted to put out some thoughts
[10:42] <th> raphael_wels: i guess you did not get my point
[10:42] <raphael_wels> ah, maybe not, can you explain?
[10:42] <th> raphael_wels: i was just noting that it's not a good idea to code a default jabber server into a IM-client
[10:43] <th> cause that is causing centralization
[10:43] <raphael_wels> ah, I see
[11:09] <th> args. joker.com down.
[11:09] <th> propably under nserver attack
[11:20] <th> new iso available in 45minutes
[11:20] <blindcoder> joker.com?
[11:20] <blindcoder> never heard of that
[11:21] <th> big registrar of com/net/org zones.
[11:21] <blindcoder> ah
[11:22] <th> fraunhofer.com hosted there. just a small example
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[12:05] #rocklinux: mode change '+o th' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[12:06] Topic changed on #rocklinux by th!n=th@montana.hbsn.de: http://iso.rocklinux.de/rock-ftp/official/test-releases/crystal-r7333_cd1.iso (test this vanilla r7333 crystal)
[12:06] #rocklinux: mode change '-o th' by th!n=th@montana.hbsn.de
[12:26] <blindcoder> hmm
[12:26] <blindcoder> flyspray 0.9.8 supports reminders
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[13:43] Action: clifford is testing a cpan import package update..
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[13:50] <jllitvay> I guys!!!
[13:51] <jllitvay> is it hard to install rocklinux in a pentium233mmx machine?
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[14:34] <blindcoder> hardly :)
[14:37] <jllitvay> yeah, but FOR a pentium-mmx it could be. I would build it in a athlon-xp 2100MHz with 740MB ram
[14:37] <jllitvay> this meanwhile I read the ROCK manual in the web.
[14:38] <blindcoder> that would be an entirely normal build/installation process
[14:38] <th> jllitvay: how much rum is in the pmmx box?
[14:38] <th> s/rum/ram/
[14:38] <blindcoder> yummy
[14:38] <blindcoder> rum in the box :D
[14:38] <jllitvay> 147MB in simm slots!!!
[14:39] <th> fair enough
[14:39] <jllitvay> that machine rules. Dual pentium-mmx 233Mhz.
[14:39] <jllitvay> I love that machine. 
[14:39] <blindcoder> http://kqe.de/pruell/firefox.jpg
[14:39] <blindcoder> :D
[14:39] <jllitvay> I call it "FRANK" it comes from pieces of old machines.
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[15:48] <th> fake: at least in the kubuntu install all disc devices are available in /dev/discs/disc*/
[16:00] <fake> th: i know
[16:00] <fake> th: they cheat ;)
[16:00] <fake> i felt asleep yesterday, that's why there's no xterm package yet
[16:01] <fake> i'll do it this evening
[16:02] <fake> th: i will also replace our scsi-devfs.sh with theirs. it's doing the same thing, just a little smarter. the race condition is fixed by using absolute data in /sys
[16:02] Action: fake away again for a little
[16:03] <th> fake: great news!
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[18:45] <[raphael]> ok, back home, finally
[18:50] <stf^rocklinux> wb raphael
[19:18] <th> ok - finally our system comes up without the need of manually running mkinitrd in chroot
[19:27] <fake> th: how that?
[19:27] <fake> why would you need that? because the bootdisk's kernel is <> the installed system's kernel?
[19:28] <th> fake: first we had the libdl problem
[19:28] <th> fake: then we had still some other problems which stf fixed with the latest patches
[19:28] <th> and now i dont need to run mkinitrd before i can boot
[19:29] <fake> th: you mean, it's run by postinstall now and that works?
[19:29] <th> fake: exactly
[19:29] <th> and our "konqueror" and "home" buttons work as well :-))
[19:30] <th> r7333 looks really nice
[19:30] Action: stf^rocklinux killed his build system while working on initrd ^^
[19:30] <th> sound works as soon as you put a user to the sound group
[19:31] <th> perhaps our installer should get a feature for installing some first users
[19:31] <th> (and offering to put them in the sound group)
[19:31] <stf^rocklinux> th: and maybe to the wheel group
[19:31] <th> ack
[19:31] <th> (which we dont have yet)
[19:32] <stf^rocklinux> th: it is currently only in the livecd
[19:33] <th> well ok - r7333 has mutt trouble
[19:35] Action: fake fetching $topic
[19:36] <fake> stf^rocklinux: how is your journal coming along?
[19:36] <fake> stf^rocklinux: with linux-libc-headers i can build xorg on x86_64 without SIGFPE ;)
[19:36] <stf^rocklinux> fake: seems to build well
[19:37] <fake> great!
[19:37] <th> ok mutt just core dumps
[19:37] <stf^rocklinux> fake: the linux-libc-headers will save us some patches to linux :)
[19:38] <stf^rocklinux> th: maybe try a development release? 1.5.10 is said to have a number of bugs fixed: http://www.mutt.org/
[19:38] <stf^rocklinux> th: also read 1.5.10 Changelogs, and search for core (dump)
[19:40] <stf^rocklinux> th: I'll test build that version ...
[19:41] <th> thanks
[19:46] <fake> oops
[19:46] <fake> my kmail just went boom
[19:46] <fake> what's with the mail clients these days... ;)
[20:02] <stf^rocklinux> th: mutt 1.5.11 works, but it expects cyrus-sasl2 headers in /usr/include/sasl (and no, this can't be changed with the --with-sasl=PREFIX option ^^)
[20:03] <th> what's the url to src ball
[20:04] <stf^rocklinux> mutt-1.5.11.tar.gz ftp://ftp.mutt.org/mutt/devel/
[20:06] <th> ahh devel of course
[20:07] <fake> i already suggested we remove sasl1 and put sasl2 headers in /usr/include/sasl
[20:07] <fake> would save us !6 patches in several packages
[20:07] <fake> ~6
[20:07] <th> sounds nice
[20:08] <fake> (mostly nasty patches, btw)
[20:09] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I'm for it :)
[20:10] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I could put sasl2 headers in ../sasl and sasl1 in ../sasl1
[20:10] <fake> short xterm question: in /usr/ or in /usr/X11R6 prefix?
[20:10] <fake> stf^rocklinux: is any package using sasl1 ?
[20:10] <th> the latter i'd say
[20:10] <stf^rocklinux> fake: dunno
[20:10] <fake> stf^rocklinux: let's take a look
[20:11] <fake> not in crystal
[20:14] <fake> hehe, mutt uses cyrus-sasl in the .10 version
[20:15] <fake> the only package that has cyrus-sasl (1) in it's cache file besides mutt is python-ldap
[20:15] <fake> and that package i can account for
[20:16] <fake> so, as far as i am concerned, we can kick cyrus-sasl
[20:17] <stf^rocklinux> fake: https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2006032420170825328
[20:17] <stf^rocklinux> fake: you can kick cyrus-sasl afterwards ;)
[20:18] <stf^rocklinux> fake: or should I remove the package in the patch?
[20:18] <fake> stf^rocklinux: it won't hurt
[20:18] <fake> if it's there
[20:19] <fake> for now
[20:20] <th> btw - w3m bitched about some liblow
[20:21] <th> *** err [lib/liblow.c(265)]:
[20:21] <th> strncmp/isdigit/option.consolename failed
[20:21] <th> i can remember that thing from years ago
[20:22] <fake> stf^rocklinux: didn'y ou write a patch about not creating an md5sum of symlinks?
[20:22] <fake> my x86_64 build stopped yesterday after building udev...
[20:26] <stf^rocklinux> fake: not yet...
[20:27] <fake> oh, ok. then i confused sth
[20:27] <fake> the same problem exists with Build-Pkg 0update
[20:27] <fake> -update
[20:27] <stf^rocklinux> fake: my rockinitrd patch copies symlinks instead of the files pointed at
[20:28] <fake> yeah, maybe that was what i saw
[20:28] <stf^rocklinux> fake: mine -y will also try to create a cksum of /dev/stdin etc. ...
[20:30] <fake> hehe
[20:34] <fake> ah, new crystal is here
[20:36] <fake> i'll let xterm be installed in /usr. it insists...
[20:41] <fake> hm...
[20:41] <fake> did i miss something?
[20:41] <fake> why can every user on my system access my X display?
[20:41] <fake> without xhost + or anything
[20:43] <fake> ah, no
[20:43] <fake> xterm isn't a login shell by default
[20:43] <fake> we have a patch for that...
[20:47] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I'll take a look at cksum/md5sum creation ...
[20:50] <fake> stf^rocklinux: n1c3
[20:50] <fake> xterm package coming up...
[21:03] <stf^rocklinux> how do I check in C if a file is a symlink, block device, etc.?
[21:06] <th> lstat
[21:07] <th> and use makro S_ISBLK(m) on the result
[21:07] <stf^rocklinux> ah, stat in that case. thanks
[21:07] <th> no stat will follow symlink
[21:07] <stf^rocklinux> ah, yes
[21:07] <th> lstat is identical to stat, except in the  case  of  a  symbolic  link, where the link itself is stat-ed, not the file that it refers to.
[21:09] <stf^rocklinux> yes, just read that :)
[21:09] <stf^rocklinux> th: I assume running cksum on sockets is a bad idea, as well?
[21:09] <th> stf^rocklinux: yes
[21:10] <th> you'll get a a no such device or address
[21:10] <th> you'll get a a "no such device or address" error
[21:25] <fake> anything but normal files is a bad idea ;)
[21:43] Action: fake installing new crystal on his laptop
[21:51] <fake> hardware sucks
[21:51] <fake> hdb: media error
[22:08] <th> the ':' in our gems really sucks
[22:08] <th> can't use scp to transfer them
[22:11] <stf^rocklinux> th: yes, the : in filenames usually denotes remote files, afaik
[22:11] <th> tru
[22:11] <th> e
[22:11] <th> for scp and rsync
[22:11] <th> and even tar
[22:11] <th> it sucks if you try to `scp *gem foo@somewhere:`
[22:12] <th> i now did a `rename ':' XXXXX` before doing so
[22:12] <fake> on traditional mac, : was the path delimiter
[22:12] <fake> instead of '/' or '\'
[22:12] <stf^rocklinux> fake: how could they... ^^
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[22:14] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I think I've fixed Build-Pkg and mine wrt. special files...
[22:14] <fake> stf^rocklinux: if you sm send, i'll give it a try
[22:14] <fake> (a simple Emerge-Pkg udev should show wether it works ;)
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[22:21] <stf^rocklinux> fake: https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2006032422202525108
[22:21] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/xmms.m4:17: warning: underquoted definition of XMMS_TEST_VERSION
[22:21] <th>   run info '(automake)Extending aclocal'
[22:21] <th>   or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
[22:22] <stf^rocklinux> th: warnings can be ignored ;)
[22:22] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/xmms.m4:62: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_XMMS
[22:22] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/sdlmm.m4:12: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_SDLMM
[22:22] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/libmikmod.m4:11: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_LIBMIKMOD
[22:22] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/audiofile.m4:12: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_AUDIOFILE
[22:22] <fake> stf^rocklinux: why "X" ?
[22:22] <th> /usr/share/aclocal/ao.m4:9: warning: underquoted definition of XIPH_PATH_AO
[22:22] <th> i think we have a slight problem
[22:22] <th> that comes when i try to automake something totally different
[22:22] <stf^rocklinux> fake: so we know it's a special file
[22:23] <fake> stf^rocklinux: that's a change in behaviour
[22:23] <stf^rocklinux> fake: and we can detect (with mine -y) if a special file has become a normal file or vice versa
[22:23] <stf^rocklinux> fake: for fifos?
[22:23] <fake> ah
[22:23] <stf^rocklinux> fake: for fifos, yes that
[22:23] <stf^rocklinux> that's a change
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[22:24] <fake> though you missed the -update check
[22:24] <stf^rocklinux> fake: but I wonder where this fifo exception came from, anyway
[22:24] <fake> line 705 ff
[22:25] <fake> in Build-Pkg
[22:27] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I'll grep -v "^X" that...
[22:27] <fake> stf^rocklinux: jep, nice
[22:28] <stf^rocklinux> btw. do we really need cksum and md5sum? afaics mine doesn't even use cksum checksums
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[22:28] <fake> maybe bize does
[22:29] <stf^rocklinux> ah ok.
[22:29] Action: stf^rocklinux likes blindcoders patch to skip cksum creation :)
[22:31] Action: fake not so much
[22:31] <fake> you really want them when updating packages, etc... but for test builds, it's nice
[22:33] <fake> 'nice' seems to be my word today
[22:35] <stf^rocklinux> fake: yeah, I guess it will speed up my generic build by a few hours ^^
[22:37] <stf^rocklinux> fake: ever heard of metal fever? That's what you get when you are welding and inhalate the wrong fumes :S
[22:39] Action: stf^rocklinux felt a bit like vomiting today driving home from welding lessions...
[22:39] <stf^rocklinux> but I feel better now
[22:42] <stf^rocklinux> fake: https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2006032422341225743
[22:50] <fake> what is 'welding' ?
[22:54] <icelbox> <de>schweissen</de> iirc
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[22:54] <fake> so you are learning to weld?
[22:55] <fake> th: K3B is 3 times in the "System config" menu entry in kde
[22:55] <fake> th: aside from that, it looks *nice*
[22:55] <stf^rocklinux> fake: as part of my study
[22:55] <fake> stf^rocklinux: what do you study again?
[22:55] <stf^rocklinux> fake: mechatronics
[22:55] <th> fake: that's not been introduced in 7333
[22:56] <fake> th: i didn't notice before ;)
[22:56] <fake> stf^rocklinux: so, building robots and such?
[22:56] <th> fake: one of them is setup
[22:56] <th> fake: and the two other differ in "--cdimage %U" and "--image %U"
[22:56] <stf^rocklinux> fake: yeah, hope to do so in the future
[22:56] <fake> th: yes, one of them has a full name
[22:57] <fake> stf^rocklinux: sounds cool
[22:57] <stf^rocklinux> th: maybe we shouldn't change any kde desktop files?
[22:57] <th> might be the reason for this
[22:58] <th> k3b: usr/share/applnk/.hidden/k3b-cue.desktop
[22:58] <th> k3b: usr/share/applnk/.hidden/k3b-iso.desktop
[22:58] <stf^rocklinux> fake: but before that comes a lot of learning and work ^^
[22:58] <stf^rocklinux> fake: well at least now I know how to arc weld without killing myself :)
[23:00] <th> stf^rocklinux: well we need that sort of hook we talked about day before yesterday
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[23:00] <th> stf^rocklinux: so kde-3.conf can just disable that it's desktop files are touched
[23:02] <stf^rocklinux> th: desktopauto=0, e.g.?
[23:02] <th> stf^rocklinux: yea something like that
[23:05] <fake> th: i think i got it
[23:05] <fake> th: the disc device
[23:08] <th> fake: nice
[23:08] <th> ;-)
[23:09] <fake> ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="scsi", WAIT_FOR_SYSFS="ioerr_cnt" 
[23:09] <fake> the 'add' event is triggered long before the device becomes visible in sysfs
[23:09] <th> ioerr_cnt?
[23:09] <th> how is it done in kubuntu?
[23:10] <fake> th: not at all
[23:10] <th> but they have working disk devices
[23:10] <fake> th: but that early.rules files is included in the udev distribution 
[23:10] <fake> th: no idea how ubuntu does it
[23:10] <fake> th: but this is definitely the right way.
[23:10] <th> which "early.rules"?
[23:11] <fake> th: rules executed before most other rules
[23:11] <th> ok
[23:11] <fake> udev-088/etc/udev/05-udev-early.rules
[23:19] Action: fake rebooting with new rules
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[23:39] <fake> ...
[23:42] <th> fake: hmm?
[23:46] <fake> th: patch in sm
[23:46] <th> so it's cool?
[23:46] <fake> https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2006032423461410227
[23:51] <th> that's a big chunk
[23:52] <fake> th: yes. just because sm doesn't support sm mv
[23:52] <fake> so i have to delete/add
[23:52] <th> cd ..
[23:52] <th> uh
[23:52] <fake> pwd?
[23:53] <th> now in /home/fake
[23:53] <fake> hey!
[23:53] <fake> cd -
[23:54] <th> now in /home/fake/.my_secret_XXX
[23:54] <th> oups!
[23:54] <th> i should not spy on you. sorry.
[23:55] Action: fake *blushes*
[23:55] <fake> i got it all from SMP
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 25 2006