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[00:20] ija_ (n=ija@84.19.223.51) joined #rocklinux. [00:36] ija (n=ija@84.19.218.206) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [02:17] daja77_ (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-034-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [02:29] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-034-042.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:41] kasc_ (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-100-127.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [02:48] kasc (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-107-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [02:48] Nick change: kasc_ -> kasc [03:41] netrunner (n=andreas@anvame.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [04:57] netrunner (n=andreas@anvame.net) joined #rocklinux. [06:39] giftnuss (n=chatzill@p54B9B6B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #rocklinux. [08:45] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-96cca17fbde6dd9c) joined #rocklinux. [08:46] <blindcoder> boit [08:46] <blindcoder> moin [08:47] <giftnuss> moin [09:03] giftnuss (n=chatzill@p54B9B6B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left #rocklinux. [09:12] clifford_ (n=clifford@213-229-1-138.sdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [09:14] clifford (n=clifford@213-229-1-138.sdsl-line.inode.at) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [12:07] <th> the bc segfault is not rock specific [12:17] Action: netrunner wildly guesses it's gcc optimization :) [12:18] <netrunner> can anybody recommend something affordable for backup? [12:22] <blindcoder> o_O [12:22] <blindcoder> line 65: 1726 Segmentation fault (core dumped) grep -q '[0-9]{10}' <<< ${line} [12:22] <blindcoder> what the fuck? [12:23] <blindcoder> netrunner: DVD-RW [12:25] <blindcoder> oh, cool [12:26] <blindcoder> line="abc" [12:26] <blindcoder> grep -q '[0-9]{10}' <<< ${line} [12:26] <blindcoder> works [12:26] <blindcoder> unset line [12:26] <blindcoder> grep -q '[0-9]{10}' <<< ${line} [12:26] <blindcoder> Segmentation fault (core dumped) [12:26] <blindcoder> seems to be a bash problem [12:27] <th> <<< is feed string as stdin? [12:27] <th> bash-2.05b$ cksum <<< foobar [12:27] <th> 857691210 7 [12:27] <th> bash-2.05b$ cksum <<< ${line} [12:27] <th> Segmentation fault (core dumped) [12:27] <th> line was not set [12:27] <blindcoder> yes [12:27] <th> confirmed [12:27] <th> it's all gcc bugs ;) [12:29] <blindcoder> hehe [12:29] <th> but this bash thing is even buggy on gcc-3.2.3 [12:30] <blindcoder> yeah [12:31] <blindcoder> also on gcc34 3.4.5 0 [12:37] <blindcoder> th: got a bash3 lying around to test? [12:51] <th> blindcoder: no [12:52] <th> oh wait [12:52] <th> recent crystal? [12:52] <th> no. still bash2 [12:59] <netrunner> blindcoder: capacity should be much more than a DVD [13:27] <th> netrunner: if it's not to be relocated very frequently - then a harddisk is a good idea [13:56] <blindcoder> netrunner: or a rented server somewhere in a data center [14:34] <th> netrunner: private or business? [15:20] blindcod1r (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-af416cf3da0d9d25) joined #rocklinux. [15:21] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-96cca17fbde6dd9c) left irc: Nick collision from services. [15:21] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [15:38] toberkel (n=toberkel@toberkel.net) got netsplit. [15:40] toberkel (n=toberkel@toberkel.net) returned to #rocklinux. [16:10] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection [16:11] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #rocklinux. [16:12] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection [16:21] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #rocklinux. [17:13] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) got netsplit. [17:13] toberkel (n=toberkel@toberkel.net) got netsplit. [17:14] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-034-82.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) returned to #rocklinux. [17:14] toberkel (n=toberkel@toberkel.net) returned to #rocklinux. [17:59] <netrunner> th: for myself. but I want to have something else than a harddisk. [18:04] <blindcoder> netrunner: why? [18:37] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: IDE harddisk in an external USB case is a nice combo imo ;) [18:43] <th> stf^rocklinux: btw the bc segfault appears on "arch" as well. [18:43] <th> is "arch" a distro? [18:43] <th> i only got that report after asking someone to let someone test bc on gcc403 [18:43] <stf^rocklinux> th: iirc there is a distro called arch [18:44] <blindcoder> yes, arch linux [18:45] <blindcoder> IIRC they were the ones ripping lots of ROCK code without so much as saying 'thanks, suckers' [18:46] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: that's why their distro looked so familiar to me ^^ [18:46] <blindcoder> *laughs* [18:48] <th> and that's why their bc segfaults now as well? ;) [18:49] <blindcoder> well, it probably means that they can blame all their problems on us [18:49] <stf^rocklinux> th: the problem arises when bc is compiled with gcc40, doesn't it? [18:49] <blindcoder> blindcoder@fuzzy:~$ echo 1 | bc [18:49] <blindcoder> 1 [18:49] <blindcoder> blindcoder@fuzzy:~$ mine -q gcc34 [18:49] <blindcoder> gcc34 3.4.3 0 [18:50] <th> stf^rocklinux: yes with gcc40 which is 4.0.3 at the time being [18:50] <th> blindcoder: bc -l please [18:50] <th> blindcoder: and with gcc=gcc40 please ;) [18:51] <blindcoder> blindcoder@fuzzy:~$ echo 1 | bc -l [18:51] <blindcoder> 1 [18:51] <stf^rocklinux> maybe there's already a patch around... [18:51] <blindcoder> blindcoder@fuzzy:~$ echo 1 | gcc=gcc40 bc -l [18:51] <blindcoder> 1 [18:51] <blindcoder> :) [18:52] <th> harr [18:55] <blindcoder> sooo [18:55] <blindcoder> that checkversion webthingie [18:55] <blindcoder> how do I get an account on that? [18:55] <blindcoder> or rather [18:55] <blindcoder> how do I log in if the form doesn't work? [19:00] <blindcoder> and someone please apply 2006031713044803603 [19:08] <netrunner> blindcoder: because harddisks depend on the functionality of their motor. [19:11] <stf^rocklinux> wow, looks like we use the wrong set of patches for bc :D [19:11] <stf^rocklinux> th: try to build bc with the patches from https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/patches/downloads/bc/ instead of the patches from trunk [19:11] <stf^rocklinux> th: works here :) [19:13] <blindcoder> anyone else think it strange that we are talking about 'sets of patches' to get stuff worknig? [19:13] <blindcoder> s/strange/sad/ [19:13] <blindcoder> netrunner: and magnet tapes depend on durability of magnetising, motor in drive and a few dozen other things [19:13] <th> stf^rocklinux: why do we need the patches at all? [19:14] <th> blindcoder: no. the motor in drive can go fubar - you just need another drive and you have your data [19:14] <th> blindcoder: that's incredibly expensive for a hdd [19:14] <stf^rocklinux> th: without any patches, bc still segfaults... I haven't tested yet which patch exactly fixes this [19:15] <blindcoder> th: yeah, but you _can_ get another motor [19:15] <th> stf^rocklinux: right. i tested the vanilla bc. it segfaults [19:15] <blindcoder> th: try getting your data from a demagnetised tape [19:15] <th> blindcoder: try getting your data from a demagnetised hdd [19:16] <th> when we compare hdd with tape - then demagnetisation is no point - it's fatal to both [19:17] <blindcoder> so on what grounds would one compare them? [19:17] <blindcoder> cost per gigabyte? [19:17] <th> many factors. you named "durability of magnetising, motor in drive and a few dozen other things" [19:17] <th> i just voided the first [19:17] <th> and the second before. [19:18] <th> would be nice if you enlighten us with the few dozen other things ;) [19:18] <th> it's slower - that's clear [19:18] <th> you need to buy a drive which might be pricey [19:18] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: in the case of bc, it ought to be only on patch, I just don't know which :S [19:19] <th> stf^rocklinux: it's only three of them. so building bc three times should reveal this [19:19] <icelbox> hm, even at work we go for backup on HDDs... tapes are only to fulfill law requirements [19:19] <blindcoder> th: thanks for applying [19:19] <th> icelbox: backup on HDD is fine as long as you protect from human failure. [19:20] <th> icelbox: if you want to protect from fire+robbery then you need to transport your data outside. and transporting HDDs on a daily basis is no good idea [19:20] <th> blindcoder: i've seen no big harm. [19:20] <blindcoder> th: price being one, ease of backups another [19:20] <icelbox> th: that's what we have tapes for... for disaster recovery... [19:21] <blindcoder> th: I can for example create a mirror of two disks, pull out one disk, put in another. instant backup [19:21] <icelbox> the backup hardware is located in the completely opposite side of our buildings [19:21] <th> blindcoder: you can dd if=disk of=tape and the reverse later. [19:21] <blindcoder> th: not on a running system [19:21] <th> blindcoder: of course [19:22] <th> blindcoder: why not? [19:22] <icelbox> can you guarantee that /dev/tape is readable after transporting it two times? ;) [19:22] <blindcoder> th: because the filesystem changes while dd is running [19:22] <th> icelbox: more than with a hdd [19:22] <blindcoder> th: I wouldn't risk my data integrity on that [19:22] <th> blindcoder: it does change in your scenario as well [19:22] <icelbox> well, we did a bare metal restore test... it failed, because the tape was not readable... [19:23] <icelbox> and those tapes are freaking expensive :( [19:23] <th> icelbox: i guess someone had this experience with hdd's too [19:23] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: generally speaking, having to apply an almost one-year old patch to a basic program to fix a serious bug sucks -.- [19:23] <icelbox> probably, though our hdd backups are raid 4 with double parity ;) [19:23] <th> icelbox: yea [19:24] <icelbox> so two defetive harddrives don't matter :) but what I like most about it are the snapshots :D [19:24] <icelbox> users can recover from their mistakes on their own, without a 12 hour restore from tape ^^ [19:24] <th> icelbox: true [19:24] <blindcoder> th: I think the integrity in pulling out the disk is better. for one thing, you can plan it and prepare for it (shut down your server processes for a few minutes) [19:25] <th> icelbox: but we are talking of disaster recovery. not of human-failure-recovery [19:25] <blindcoder> th: mind you, I've never tried it [19:25] <icelbox> it's everything a time/money tradeoff :) [19:25] <blindcoder> I'm totally going out on a limb here [19:26] <th> (time+money)/risk [19:28] <icelbox> hm, at least I experienced no difference in risk [20:05] treo (n=xfman@L0513.l.pppool.de) joined #rocklinux. [20:06] <netrunner> why are build/* 700? [20:08] Action: netrunner is happy that clifford does not work as webdesigner :) [20:15] <stf^rocklinux> th: bc fix is in 2006042520132717851 [20:18] <netrunner> stf^rocklinux: I'll soon test your mine patch [20:23] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: nice! :legacy package creation with mine has currently one limitation: if mine adds files to a legacy package (instead of creating a new one), some files will become "modified/duplicate" [20:28] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: this should be fixed sooner or later. I've implemented a fully working :legacy package creation in scripts/Build-Pkg in the meantime. [20:29] <netrunner> stf^rocklinux: which only works if you have the old version in your build tree. [20:31] <fake> moin [20:31] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: hm? Build-Pkg solely relies on /var/adm files for that, and you can build packages inside your real root with Build-Pkg. [20:32] <netrunner> stf^rocklinux: yes, inside the build environment. [20:32] Action: netrunner prefers to have this logic in mine [20:33] <fake> stf^rocklinux: have you noticed /etc/passwd etc missing with latest patches applied? [20:33] <stf^rocklinux> moin fake [20:35] <stf^rocklinux> fake: not really, passwd didn't work in my latest test build iirc... [20:35] <fake> stf^rocklinux: i guess postsysfiles.in in the sysfiles package isn't such a good idea [20:35] <fake> stf^rocklinux: i'll rediff your patch to add it to etc_group.txt directly [20:36] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: Build-Pkg and mine are two different ways to install packages, so the logic needs to be in both [20:38] <stf^rocklinux> fake: ok, thx [20:38] <fake> let's see wether that helps... [20:40] <netrunner> stf^rocklinux: if you put it in Build-Pkg, it will already be used during build-target. [20:43] <fake> argh! [20:43] <fake> passwd is still not in sysfile's flist! [20:43] <fake> how on earth can that be? [20:44] <th> which patch did break this? [20:44] <fake> th: i have *NO* idea [20:44] <fake> it's the 'fakes real journal' [20:44] <th> fake: can we just blame blindcoder? [20:45] <fake> let me see... [20:45] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: when Build-Pkg has finished, meta-data of previously installed packages will be lost, so Build-Pkg has to create legacy packages. [20:45] <fake> hm, okay [20:45] <fake> maybe i need to remove all of the files that *should* be part of sysfiles too [20:45] <stf^rocklinux> fake: try removing the sysfiles package with mine... [20:45] <stf^rocklinux> fake: or only the passwd file [20:45] <blindcoder> th: no [20:46] <fake> stf^rocklinux: ack, i did ./scripts/Create-ErrList -remove, which uses mine -rs, but as passwd/group were not part of the flist, they were left over [20:47] Action: fake deleting files in working hosts's sysfiles pkg [20:48] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: another way would be to use shadowfs for Build-Pkg, so previous packages are not overwritten, then create a binary package and install it into the real root :) [20:52] <stf^rocklinux> fake: what do you think about using shadowfs for Build-Pkg? [20:52] <fake> aaah, now passwd and group are back again. [20:53] <fake> stf^rocklinux: it was meant to be used for building as non-root user, initially ;) [20:53] <fake> stf^rocklinux: besides the livecd useage. [20:53] <stf^rocklinux> fake: that'd be another advantage of using it, I guess :) [20:55] <fake> th: you have a duplicate patch in sm (2006042520383126358) [20:55] <th> ahh [20:55] <fake> vs 2006042520383126358 [20:55] <fake> narf [20:56] <fake> vs 2006042100374410760 [20:56] <fake> w8 [20:56] <fake> ignore me [20:56] <th> 2006042100374410760 is koffice update ;) [20:56] <fake> yours is *way* cleaner [20:57] <th> fake: what's my patch id? [20:57] <fake> th 0760 at the end. [20:58] <fake> the 6358 is daja's [20:58] <th> that's koffice update [20:58] <th> fake: 2006042100374410760 and 2006042520383126358 are not even related [20:58] <fake> what? [20:58] <fake> daja77_: koffice update, th: koffice update? [20:58] <fake> 2006041215311931422 [20:58] <fake> sorry [20:59] <fake> damn windows copy & paste, i will never get used to it [21:00] <th> ahhhhhh [21:00] <th> now i see [22:04] <fake> i'm gonna apply some stuff now [22:08] <blindcoder> I'm going to sleep now [22:08] <blindcoder> got a potential new flat to visit at 8 am [22:08] <blindcoder> I still wonder how I am supposed to get out of bed [22:08] <blindcoder> anyway, bye [22:08] <stf^rocklinux> gn8 blindcoder [22:09] <th> fake: please include the bc fix from stf [22:09] <th> 20:10:41 < stf^rocklinux> th: bc fix is in 2006042520132717851 [22:14] <fake> th: ok [22:14] <fake> th: should i apply your koffice update, too ? [22:15] <fake> th: the one from daja worked, so it's just the localisation stuff that could be broken [22:15] <th> yes [22:15] <th> i think that's safe [22:15] <th> i can start a vanilla build then if you like [22:15] <th> then you can go ahead with new patches [22:15] <fake> th: okay [22:16] <fake> 7563 [22:20] <th> crystal is now the default target. [22:20] <th> is that new? [22:20] <fake> yes. [22:20] <fake> before, it was generic. [22:20] <th> yea [22:32] treo (n=xfman@L0513.l.pppool.de) left irc: "safe the Planet, kill yourself" [22:33] <netrunner> hm, why was kim still in my sm queue ... [22:37] <th> who's kim? [22:41] <stf^rocklinux> clifford: cowfs with COW_RO=/ and COW_RW=/mnt/cowfs_rw doesn't work as expected... [22:46] <fake> th: build running [22:46] Action: fake off for cooking [22:46] <fake> cya [22:46] <th> fake: vanilla build as well [22:52] <netrunner> th: kde image manager or something like this. [22:53] <th> k [23:02] <th> yea cool - bc is fixed ;) [23:09] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-af416cf3da0d9d25) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:15] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/session/direct/x-e448a711408317eb) joined #rocklinux. [00:00] --- Wed Apr 26 2006