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[09:13] <blindcoder> moin
[10:37] <blindcoder> so
[10:37] <blindcoder> what's the difference between 'full install' and 'minimalistic install'?
[11:01] Action: netrunner thinks minimalistic only installs from base/
[11:05] <blindcoder> I see
[11:11] <blindcoder> so, when will the remaining parts of smng be implemented/
[12:06] <th> daja77_: clamav needs update again. i tested it. it's a simple s/88.1/88.2/
[12:43] <daja77_> ok
[13:31] <blindcoder> hmm
[13:31] <blindcoder> is /dev/vc/* obselete or did I fuck up something?
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[16:34] <stf^rocklinux> moin
[16:39] <blindcoder> moin moin
[16:41] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: maybe add a Roadmap to the wiki containing an ordered list of things to be implemented next?
[16:41] <stf^rocklinux> (in smng)
[16:49] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: well, at the moment smng is like submaster, just worse
[16:49] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: I'm actually waiting for the 'apply patches for personal repositories automatically' feature
[16:51] <stf^rocklinux> yeah, that'd be really needed
[16:51] <stf^rocklinux> although I wouldn't necessarily call smng worse, just "different": it has some things sm hadn't and vice versa...
[16:52] <th> oh hey - is it too bad at the moment? fake and me are applying those really quickly. just highlight me in IRC and the patch is applied
[16:52] <stf^rocklinux> th: smng could apply patches to personal reps automatically, after all needed pro votes are there...
[16:53] <th> votes can just mean "i like the idea" and not "i've tested it"
[16:54] <stf^rocklinux> yes, but we agreed that core developers don't test personal repos, right?
[16:54] <th> yes
[16:54] <blindcoder> th: iirc that was one of the points that smng _should_ do
[16:54] <blindcoder> or maybe I've got a problem with me ears on CLT
[16:54] <th> that was not a decision about smng but about changing our policy to allow this
[16:55] <blindcoder> okay, sorry. I was sleepy :(
[16:55] <stf^rocklinux> so if the repo owner says yes, it should be applied (except when postsysfiles etc. are touched)
[16:56] <th> but we talked of a script which reads from smng and offers to apply applyable patches
[16:56] <th> which was to be run by human IIRC
[16:56] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: btw, as you are one of the people hacking around at rockinitrd mostly: please change [V] at changes
[16:56] <th> that script+human thing does not exist yet. so for now IRC is the fastest
[16:57] <stf^rocklinux> th: I think we  can skip the human part in those cases (changes to personal repos), since we agreed there's no requirement to test those patches
[16:58] <th> yes i agree here.
[16:58] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I'll try, although it's a pain if you have like two or three patches and don't know if they are applied in order ...
[16:58] <th> but applyability is not always given
[16:58] <stf^rocklinux> th: you mean malformed patches, e.g.? Right, I didn't take that into account...
[16:58] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: okay. I just changed the version number from 10 months ago to today, so I thought I'd mention it :)
[17:02] <stf^rocklinux> th: would be nice if smng notified you, fake and clifford if a patch is ready to apply (appropriately voted for)
[17:05] <th> true
[17:05] <stf^rocklinux> interrupt-driven patch application instead of a polling-driven one ^^
[17:06] <blindcoder> heh, interesting
[17:06] <stf^rocklinux> hey, I should file a patent :P
[17:06] <blindcoder> in #slashem we were just discussing the problem of polling vs. the advantage of pushing :)
[17:06] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: so we got prior art
[17:12] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: not really, just the idea. But that's what most software patents are about :S 
[17:14] <blindcoder> *nod*
[17:15] <stf^rocklinux> e.g. the One-Click-Shop patent sounds to me like a one-weeks' homework for a second semester CS student:
[17:15] <blindcoder> hehe
[17:15] <stf^rocklinux> just give the outline of how it should work and let the student do the implementation
[17:16] <blindcoder> th: 2006042815004928134 and 2006042017040929640 are ready wrt. votes and tests
[17:16] <blindcoder> th: 2006042709405218849 and 2006050110532035000 only wrt. tests
[17:17] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: 1. patent sth
[17:17] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: 2. let the student do the implementation
[17:17] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: 3. profit!!!
[17:17] <stf^rocklinux> btw. that's one reason why this patent should be declared void: incomplete disclosure.
[17:18] <blindcoder> yeah
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux> Anyway the best argument against patenting ideas I've read so far dates back to 1866:
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux> Property in ideas is an insoluble contradiction.
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux> [He who complains of "theft" of his idea] complains that something has been stolen which he still possesses, and he wants back something which, if given to him a thousand times, would add nothing to his possession.
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux>     -- H. Rentzsch,
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux> Geistiges Eigenthum, 1866.
[17:22] <stf^rocklinux> Can it be said any clearer? 
[17:23] <blindcoder> a similiar argument has been made about selling copies of software
[17:23] <blindcoder> ie: artificial shortage
[17:25] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: how so? software is covered by copyright, just like poetry, it's intellectual property if one likes to call it that, but not property of ideas...
[17:26] <blindcoder> but after its created, the cost of creating copies of it approaches zero
[17:27] <stf^rocklinux> hm, that's an economic argument, not really fit to a legal discussion...
[17:27] <blindcoder> maybe not a good time to bring it up on my part
[17:30] <stf^rocklinux> the whole software patent discussion is really sickening. It's amazing to see how some lawyers twist and contort things to fit their purposes...
[17:31] <blindcoder> that's what they're paid for
[17:34] <stf^rocklinux> what really drives me mad is when they show their attitude: "You don't know what you're talking about. You're not even a lawyer. So let us do our work, won't ya?"
[17:35] <blindcoder> "Not as long as it concerns me. And now pardon me while I cancel your AOL subscribtion."
[17:35] <stf^rocklinux> Man, I bet I'm more aware of the basics of law than some of them are...
[17:35] Action: stf^rocklinux letting of some steam...
[17:36] Action: blindcoder hands stf^rocklinux a shinai
[17:36] <stf^rocklinux> what's that? Something I can bang my head on? ^^
[17:40] <blindcoder> no, something you can bang others on the head
[17:43] <stf^rocklinux> ah, an external anti-depressant :)
[17:44] <blindcoder> it's a blessed +3 LART, 118 cm in length and ~500 g in weight
[17:46] <th> blindcoder: so you tested 2006042709405218849 in a full build and with testing usability?
[17:47] <blindcoder> th: on a freshly installed system
[17:48] <th> blindcoder: core-strong requires a complete build with that patch applied.
[17:48] <th> not only building the package
[17:48] <blindcoder> erm... let me get this straight: a patch that only affects something _runtime_ wants to be tested _compiletime_?
[17:49] <blindcoder> that code is even only executed _after_ installation
[17:49] <blindcoder> but be my guest
[17:49] <blindcoder> 2006050110532035000 also wants core-strong
[17:49] <blindcoder> and i certainly didn't do a full build on it
[17:53] <th> there is two ways i can apply a patch.
[17:53] <th> a) following strictly the policy
[17:53] <th> then i dont look into the patch
[17:53] <th> and just count the votes
[17:53] <th> and hit the button when polciy permits
[17:54] <th> that's what i did with 2006042815004928134
[17:54] <th> and b) requires looking into the patch
[17:54] <th> that's why i applied the obvious fix with s||/sbin| which only makes a path more explicit
[17:55] <th> when things are not obvious enough to be applied through b) then i want to do the full policy dance.
[17:55] <th> which means building+testing a full crystal
[17:55] Action: blindcoder smacks his head onto the table
[17:55] <th> but i think i can switch from type a) to b) for this etc/conf/dm* thing
[17:55] <stf^rocklinux> testing 2006042709405218849 compile-time doesn't make any sense, it's pretty obvious when you look at it and know about rockinitrd internals
[17:55] <th> k
[17:55] <stf^rocklinux> th: please do so :)
[17:56] <th> yea as i see now it only affects etc/conf/dm*
[18:03] <stf^rocklinux> err, forget the " and know about rockinitrd internals" part, that's not relevant for 2006042709405218849
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[18:17] <daja77_> grrr no new ff source yet
[18:19] <stf^rocklinux> bbl
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[20:50] <daja77_> lol the second month that starts with a clamav update
[20:52] <blindcoder> heh
[20:52] <blindcoder> a month with a clamav update is a good month
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