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[03:06] <jsf> w
[03:06] <jsf> hello
[03:10] <jsf> I'm interesting in using rock linux to build a minimal distribution with some custom packages
[03:10] <jsf> there's no documentation on getting rocklinux on the website.. can anyone point me to some doc that will tell me how to get it?
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[03:29] <stf^rocklinux> jsf: see http://www.rocklinux.net/svn.html
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[03:56] <jsf> thanks
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[08:06] <blindcoder> moin
[09:36] <esden> moin
[09:45] <blindcoder> moin moin esden 
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[11:11] <blindcoder> th: ping
[11:13] <th> blindcoder: pong
[11:14] <th> what's up?
[11:14] <blindcoder> th: you got any idea about the isseo on rock-user?
[11:15] <th> i did not read it yet
[11:16] <th> From: Tuan Anh TRINH <trinhtuan@gmail.com>
[11:16] <th> this one?
[11:16] <blindcoder> yes
[11:17] <blindcoder> brb, shopping for lunch
[11:17] <blindcoder> away brb
[11:20] <th> i requested more info
[11:55] <netrunner> since when do I have write access? Last Changed Author: netrunner
[11:55] <netrunner> :)
[11:56] <th> you dont need to have write access to be stored in the svn log property ;)
[11:56] <blindcoder> netrunner: that's being done for a long time already
[11:56] Action: netrunner always thougth all his breakages would be anonymous :)
[11:57] <blindcoder> netrunner: clifford_ and me wrote a script to adapt the author field in svn
[12:00] Action: netrunner decides to start sending patches only through tor
[12:04] <blindcoder> and?
[12:04] <blindcoder> you have to authenticate against submaster
[12:36] Action: netrunner planning to buy a new computer ... hopefully with vanderpool
[12:40] <blindcoder> vanderpool?
[12:44] <stf^rocklinux> moin
[12:48] <icelbox> blindcoder: hardwarevirtualization layer... basically two ring-0 instances
[12:48] <blindcoder> ah
[13:23] <netrunner> very cool, using xen you can have win and lin in parallel
[13:23] <netrunner> but mainly I want a computer for gaming :)
[13:26] <netrunner> why do I have so many config.foo.swp1234 lying around?
[13:26] <netrunner> and in config/ there are many <config>.swp???
[13:27] <blindcoder> did you ^C ./scripts/Config a few times?
[13:28] <netrunner> hm ... is Config also run as preparation of a build?
[13:28] <netrunner> then yes.
[13:28] <netrunner> reproducably,  Config also aborts by itself if pressing a key during window change ...
[13:29] <stf^rocklinux> netrunner: yeah :S
[13:30] <netrunner> hm, I ask the campus roomfinder for the lecture hall of "intercultural communication" and he shows me the mens bathroom :)
[13:31] <netrunner> th: I have now restarted my build without parallelization, maybe that is broken currently.
[13:32] <blindcoder> netrunner: sounds right, I've hardly ever had _no_ conversation at the pissoir :)
[13:33] <stf^rocklinux> bbl
[13:44] <netrunner> this firefox starts to be annoying
[13:47] <daja77_> yep
[13:47] <netrunner> daja77_: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2006-May/015136.html
[13:47] <daja77_> iss planned for end of may
[13:47] <netrunner> just to keep you busy :)
[13:47] <daja77_> yeah already saw it
[13:47] <daja77_> crap day
[13:48] <blindcoder> daja77_: not so lazy :P
[13:49] <daja77_> .oO (this happens when you say you want to hand in your diploma next week)
[13:52] <daja77_> ah the getuid patch is already in
[14:05] <netrunner> daja77_: need a proof-reader?
[14:09] <daja77_> hm for the xorg one perhaps, just sent out the ff announcement
[14:10] <netrunner> daja77_: I meant for your diploma thesis :)
[14:10] <daja77_> ah ;)
[14:10] <daja77_> thx
[14:10] <daja77_> but not today ;)
[14:16] <daja77_> ah yeah mysql update too >_<
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[15:49] <daja77_> nice xorg built
[15:55] <daja77_> GAA!
[15:55] <daja77_> new php release too
[16:52] <daja77_> w00t konqueror is not detected by google as non supported browser
[17:35] <stf^rocklinux> daja77: has it ever been?
[17:39] <daja77_> it should but I set it as mozilla, and it seems they accept that idea
[17:39] <daja77_> that it is not really working is another thing
[17:39] <daja77_> erh i mean googlemail, sry for confusion
[17:41] <th> that reminds me of the rv-version in our old firefox ;)
[17:41] <th> cause we set the variable $ver
[17:41] <th> the version was wrong so gmail refused the browser
[17:42] <th> hey cool r7579 compiled fine.
[17:42] <th> vanilla build
[17:42] <th> stf^rocklinux: with all the fixes
[17:42] <daja77_> th: yes that's why i tried if it accepts the konqueror fake id ;)
[17:43] <daja77_> btw have fun updateing ff ;)
[17:43] <th> i thought you did that?
[17:43] <daja77_> i could do announcement nr 4 if mysql would upload its release
[17:44] <daja77_> yes sure I did, I mean on your boxes ;)
[17:44] <th> oh well all last 3 revisions are security fixes of yours
[17:44] <daja77_> iirc 1.5 was one too
[17:45] <th> i'm talking of r7582 r7581 r7580
[17:45] <daja77_> as i said is planned for end of may ...
[17:45] <daja77_> ah
[17:45] <daja77_> yes
[17:45] <daja77_> busy day ...
[17:45] <th> worth an update
[17:45] <th> but let's update vanilla r7579 first. ;)
[17:45] <daja77_> mysql is still pending
[17:45] <th> yea i'll wait
[17:46] <daja77_> they have release nodes for 4.1.19 but no files on teh mirrors
[17:46] <daja77_> notes*
[17:46] <daja77_> and the recommendation is to switch to 5.0.x anyway ..
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[18:34] <eeos> hi there!
[18:35] <eeos> two questions here: is rock linux still active? where is it possible to find the list of packages in last stable (2.0.3)?
[18:37] <daja77_> yes it is active
[18:37] <daja77_> but don't use that "stable" release
[18:39] <eeos> why?
[18:40] <daja77_> because it is really old and has bugs nobody will fix for you 
[18:40] <daja77_> there is no development on the 2.0 tree anymore
[18:40] <eeos> so, what is the last stable in reality?
[18:40] <daja77_> you can try the iso that is in the topic
[18:41] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: 
[18:41] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: topic is quite stable, it's based on latest ROCK sources (aka Development tree)
[18:43] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: package list for the devel tree is here: http://www.rocklinux.net/packages/
[18:44] <eeos> I cannot find the kernle in the repository
[18:44] <eeos> ?
[18:45] <eeos> I am trying to understand how it works.
[18:46] <stf^rocklinux> the kernel package is called linux, in the base repository
[18:47] <stf^rocklinux> linux package is forked into kernel binary and kernel source packages (e.g. linux=linux26 and linux=linux26-source)
[18:47] <eeos> argh
[18:49] <stf^rocklinux> so to build the 2.6 kernel source, use e.g. `rocket emerge linux=linux26-source`
[18:49] <th> new iso available
[18:49] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: argh?
[18:49] <eeos> ok
[18:50] <eeos> yep, I was surfing around in the package tree to try to understand
[18:50] #rocklinux: mode change '+o th' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:50] Topic changed on #rocklinux by th!n=th@montana.hbsn.de: http://iso.rocklinux.de/rock-ftp/official/vanilla/crystal-r7579.iso
[18:50] #rocklinux: mode change '-o th' by th!n=th@montana.hbsn.de
[18:50] <eeos> how is the support for commercial packages in rocklinux?
[18:51] <eeos> for example SymLink modems
[18:51] <eeos> ATI cards
[18:51] <eeos> ?
[18:51] <th> perfect.
[18:51] <th> but you propably dont understand what i mean
[18:52] <th> cause:
[18:52] <th> rocklinux is not a distribution
[18:52] <th> so "support" for such things above in the meaning of rocklinux would mean: is it possible to build a distribution which supports above.
[18:52] <th> so the answer to this is: yes
[18:52] <eeos> ah!
[18:52] <th> rocklinux is a toolkit to build distributions
[18:52] <stf^rocklinux> there's already the ati package containing the proprietary ati driver
[18:53] <eeos> which measn that you have to compile everything in
[18:53] <eeos> ok
[18:53] <th> eeos: we have an example distribution
[18:53] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: or download a prebuilt ISO image...
[18:53] <th> eeos: which is called crystal. we release this in binary
[18:53] <th> eeos: see $topic. this is a bootable crystal distribution cd
[18:53] <eeos> then you use it for building the distribution
[18:54] <th> yea or you just use it.
[18:54] <th> crystal is an example. so it contains kde and stuff 
[18:54] <th> 3.5.2
[18:54] <th> koffice-1.5.0
[18:54] <eeos> good
[18:54] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: it is a distribution :) you can use it to build other distros as well 
[18:54] <eeos> if I go for building a new distribution, do I start from the source packages?
[18:55] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: download the ROCK sources, then use ./scripts/Config, ./scripts/Download and ./scripts/Build-Target
[18:56] <eeos> thanks
[18:56] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: in Config, you can see all the available build options and can add or remove packages to or from the 'build list'
[18:57] <eeos> let's say there is a pacake which is not in the rock repository
[18:57] <eeos> can I add it without any problem?
[18:57] <th> yea that's easy
[18:57] <stf^rocklinux> how to add packages is described in the manual available at rocklinux.org
[18:57] <th> if this package is a `./configure&&make&&make install`-like package. than it's a one-liner
[18:58] <stf^rocklinux> in fact it depends on the package... but for most packages it's straight-forward
[18:58] <eeos> how does the installer manage dependencies?
[18:59] <th> the _installer_ doesn't usually you want to install just all packages with it.
[19:00] <th> but you can install a package with `mine` and generate print a dependency list
[19:00] <th> so you can easily setup a shell script as you need
[19:00] <stf^rocklinux> there's no handling of runtime dependencies atm. only of build-time dependencies
[19:01] <eeos> so all the packages become indipendent?
[19:01] <stf^rocklinux> most often runtime dependencies are (a subset of) build-time dependencies, so it's easy to meet them
[19:02] <eeos> how do you manage dependecy from libraries?
[19:02] <eeos> that have to be shared?
[19:02] <daja77_> stf^rocklinux: not for python packages ;)
[19:02] <th> eeos: can you come up with an example?
[19:03] <eeos> well, all kde based packages which depend on the qt libraries
[19:03] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: you mean like shared library x requires shared library y to be installed?
[19:03] <th> eeos: well rocklinux knows about that dependency because it is also a build-time dependency
[19:04] <eeos> for example, or package x requires shared library y
[19:04] <eeos> ah!
[19:05] <eeos> interesting
[19:05] <eeos> let's say I have built the dirstribution and I now have the package pack.tgz to install
[19:05] <eeos> do I go config make make install?
[19:06] <th> first you create a rock package from it.
[19:06] <th> which is the information how it is built
[19:06] <th> then you can Emerge-Pkg it
[19:06] <stf^rocklinux> or rocket emerge it...
[19:06] <th> Usage:
[19:06] <th> ./misc/archive/newpackage.sh <option> package/repository/packagename Download_1 < Download_2, Download_n >
[19:07] <th> so you do: bash ./misc/archive/newpackage.sh package/eeos/foobar http://foo.com/bar.tgz
[19:07] <th> that's it
[19:07] <th> then you might want to add some more info like. software description
[19:07] <th> and licence information
[19:07] <th> then you do `rocket emerge foobar` or `./scripts/Emerge-Pkg foobar`
[19:08] <th> which downloads the source and builds
[19:08] <th> after that you can create a binary package from it
[19:08] <eeos> ah! I have to build a rock package
[19:08] <eeos> similar to building a rpm src package
[19:09] <th> but the rock-package does not contain the source
[19:09] <th> it's downloaded from original location or a mirror
[19:10] <eeos> ok
[19:10] <eeos> I was thinking of the complexity of the operation
[19:14] <eeos> how is hardware recognition? how is it managed?
[19:14] <th> udev
[19:15] <eeos> ok
[19:16] <stf^rocklinux> there's also the hal (hardware abstraction layer) package
[19:16] <eeos> ok
[19:17] <blindcoder> re
[19:18] <stf^rocklinux> module auto-loading can be done via hotplug, rockplug or hwscan
[19:18] <eeos> rockplug?
[19:19] <blindcoder> I don't suggest rockplug
[19:19] <stf^rocklinux> eeos: a ROCK adaptation of hotplug afaik
[19:19] <th> stf^rocklinux: well hotplug is called udev now.
[19:19] <blindcoder> IIRC it hasn't been developed in a loooong time
[19:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: udev doesn't auto-load modules...
[19:20] <th> stf^rocklinux: yes it does!!
[19:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: on my computer e.g. radeonfb is loaded, but sound and agp modules are not :(
[19:21] <blindcoder> no it doesn't
[19:21] <th> stf^rocklinux: the hotplug.rules file loads modules by pci-id
[19:21] <th> copy http://www.rocklinux.net/people/teha/hotplug.rules to /etc/udev/rules.d/
[19:21] <th> i must admit it's not yet committed
[19:21] <blindcoder> from the udev 090 FAQ
[19:21] <blindcoder> Q: But udev will not automatically load a driver if a /dev node is opened
[19:21] <blindcoder>    when it is not present like devfs will do.
[19:21] <blindcoder> A: Right, but Linux is supposed to load a module when a device is discovered
[19:22] <blindcoder>    not to load a module when it's accessed.
[19:22] <th> blindcoder: exactly.
[19:22] <th> blindcoder: so it loads the module when the device is discovered.
[19:22] <th> blindcoder: which happens when the event is triggered
[19:22] <blindcoder> ah, okay
[19:22] <th> and then the rules in hotplug.rules load the apropriate module
[19:22] <blindcoder> I misunderstood then
[19:23] <th> it uses /lib/modules/`uname -r`/modules.alias to map e.g. pci-id's to module names
[19:23] <th> i should really make a patch for the hotplug.rules
[19:23] <th> i thought i already did and applied it.
[19:23] <th> you dont need any hotplug/rockplug/hwscan any longer
[19:23] <eeos> ok. Thanks for your help. Ihave to go!
[19:24] <eeos> see you later. bye!
[19:24] <th> bye
[19:24] <stf^rocklinux> cu
[19:24] <th> alias pci:v000010DEd*sv*sd*bc03sc00i00* nvidia
[19:24] <th> alias pci:v000010ECd00008029sv*sd*bc*sc*i* ne2k_pci
[19:24] <th> so you can do "modprobe pci:v000010DEd*sv*sd*bc03sc00i00*"
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[19:24] <th> and it will load your nvidia module
[19:25] <stf^rocklinux> so devices are detected by the kernel even before the appropriate modules is loaded?
[19:25] <th> and if your /sys has this device listed on your pci bus - then it will happen when the event is triggered
[19:25] <th> stf^rocklinux: device detection is looking it up in /sys
[19:25] <th> stf^rocklinux: just like using `lspci`
[19:25] <th> then the module is loaded with that info
[19:26] <stf^rocklinux> th: now that's far better than I suspected it to be :)
[19:26] <th> stf^rocklinux: yea - as blindy says on a daily basis: "udev rocks"
[19:27] <th> stf^rocklinux: so now i know that you did not look at http://www.rocklinux.net/people/teha/mkinitramfs.txt in detail ;)
[19:27] <stf^rocklinux> th: I didn't even know it existed...
[19:29] <stf^rocklinux> th: Now I remember... Well, you're right ;)
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[20:37] <netrunner> checking how to run the C++ preprocessor... /lib/cpp
[20:37] <netrunner> configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
[20:37] <netrunner> 3-gettext still fails :(
[20:37] <netrunner> why is it called /lib/cpp?
[20:38] <blindcoder> netrunner: that's what happens when you lack mpft(?) and something else
[20:40] Action: netrunner reads a silent error in 2-gcc40.log
[20:40] <netrunner> blindcoder: I have a 1-mpfr.log
[20:40] <blindcoder> yeah, that one
[20:40] <blindcoder> but there's something else missing 'with mpfr support'
[20:42] <netrunner> blindcoder: well, where do I find that? I try to build trunk here ...
[20:42] <blindcoder> let me see
[20:43] <blindcoder> I have had that in lvp recently
[20:44] <blindcoder> seems I didn't commit it yet
[20:44] Action: blindcoder powers up the build machine
[20:45] <netrunner> wow :)
[20:45] Action: netrunner was in the city today to get an offer for a new pc
[20:46] <blindcoder> netrunner: gmp is the other
[20:47] <netrunner> blindcoder: I also have 1-gmp.log
[20:47] <blindcoder> humm
[20:47] <blindcoder> then I don't know :)
[20:47] <blindcoder> hmm
[20:48] <blindcoder> strange
[20:48] <blindcoder> I still don't have /dev/vc/* in lvp
[20:48] <netrunner> there are many make.*Error.*ignored in 2-gcc40.log, is that normal?
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[00:00] --- Thu May  4 2006