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[07:05] <blindcoder> moin
[07:07] <blindcoder> hmm
[07:07] <blindcoder> sf.net cvs server hostname changes
[07:07] <blindcoder> yummy
[07:27] <blindcoder> th: ping
[07:27] <blindcoder> th: _very_ important: 2006051207270727907
[08:48] <th> blindcoder: done
[08:48] <th> stf^rocklinux: plong
[08:51] <blindcoder> th: thanks
[08:52] Action: blindcoder now testing a modinfo-based mkinitrd, then leaving for work
[08:52] <th> "modinfo-based mkinitrd"?
[08:56] <blindcoder> see https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/?mode=patch&uid=2006050710255056650
[08:57] <th> that's only tinkering around the problem.
[09:00] <blindcoder> which problem?
[09:03] <blindcoder> note to self: attend a Mind-Reading-over-IRC program
[09:09] <blindcoder> brb
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[09:13] <blindcoder> hmm
[09:13] <blindcoder> I still don't have /dev/cdrom in LVP
[09:13] <blindcoder> anyway, gotta go to work now
[09:13] <blindcoder> bbl
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[09:51] <blindcoder> re
[09:55] <blindcoder> hmm
[09:55] <blindcoder> it just might be because I'm lacking a /dev/disk directory
[09:56] <th> blindcoder: please dont blame udev again.
[09:56] <blindcoder> I do?
[09:58] <th> i'm just asking you not to.
[09:59] <blindcoder> I guess the problem lies somewhere else, anyway
[09:59] <blindcoder> because in my running system I have /dev/disk
[09:59] <blindcoder> but I'm not creating it anywhere
[10:00] <blindcoder> th: will you enlighten me now about the "problem" you mentioned earlier?
[10:03] <blindcoder> th: or can I assume that there isn't really a problem at all?
[10:04] <th> blindcoder: well. your patch fixes just another small problem, no?
[10:05] <blindcoder> th: so I shouldn't solve that problem?
[10:05] <blindcoder> or is it not worth fixing because it's "small"?
[10:18] <stf^rocklinux> moin
[10:19] <stf^rocklinux> th: just wanted to say that I use 2006051109432731480 and it works quite well here
[10:20] <stf^rocklinux> I'd like to see it in trunk soon :)
[10:20] <th> ok cool
[10:20] <th> stf^rocklinux: do you use these rules only, or did you test the initramfs as well?
[10:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: the only thing not auto-loaded here are oss compat modules, but hwscan does that
[10:20] <stf^rocklinux> th: only the rules yet
[10:21] <netrunner> blindcoder: that directory is created by udev when applying the rules from /etc/udev/rulesd
[10:22] <stf^rocklinux> I think 2006051122554025764 would be useful too (enabling hal and dbus by default)
[10:22] <th> stf^rocklinux: would be cool if you could test the mkinitramfs as well. i'm using it productive - i just need some more testers
[10:22] <stf^rocklinux> th: I'll give it a try this weekend
[10:22] <th> thanks
[10:23] <stf^rocklinux> np :)
[10:25] <stf^rocklinux> bbl
[10:25] <blindcoder> netrunner: figured as much
[10:25] <blindcoder> netrunner: that means that I probably still lack some stuff in the kernel
[10:25] <th> blindcoder: you could try to enable devfs. *scnr*
[10:26] <blindcoder> th: if you want to go on my nerves then please just tell me
[10:26] <blindcoder> th: I'm trying to get some work done here
[10:26] <blindcoder> th: and if you don't want to tell me everything you have to say about a topic, don't say anything at all
[10:27] <th> blindcoder: i'm not holding anything back
[10:27] <blindcoder> so answer my question
[10:27] <blindcoder> 10:00 < blindcoder> th: so I shouldn't solve that problem?
[10:27] <blindcoder> 10:01 < blindcoder> or is it not worth fixing because it's "small"?
[10:28] <th> blindcoder: it's as i said. i consider the works on rockinitrd "tinkering" and would prefer a sane initramfs approach
[10:28] <th> blindcoder: the slickness of the mkinitramfs is somewhat obvious.
[10:29] <blindcoder> th: so why don't I see a patch in submaster?
[10:29] <blindcoder> th: so why don't I see a post on the mailinglist?
[10:29] <th> blindcoder: because there is none. it's in a pre-patch status. i want to get some serious comments and test results.
[10:29] <blindcoder> all I see is behaviour that I would consider backstabbing
[10:30] <blindcoder> so it's pre-patch status, ie unusable?
[10:30] <th> i use it in production. as a drop-in replacement for my prior initrd
[10:30] <blindcoder> right now, the rockinitrd package has a few advantages:
[10:30] <blindcoder> it's in trunk
[10:30] <blindcoder> it's integrated into various packages
[10:30] <blindcoder> and it does what it is being told to do
[10:31] <th> the latter is just your prejudicness.
[10:31] <blindcoder> and "fixing a bug" is not what I call "tinkering"
[10:31] <th> the integration is no advantage but more a disadvantage
[10:32] <blindcoder> HUH?
[10:32] <th> and it's not yet in trunk, because it's not yet backed by the community
[10:32] <blindcoder> oooooooh
[10:32] <blindcoder> so now we may only submit patches that are "backed by the community"?
[10:32] <blindcoder> what is "the community"?
[10:32] <blindcoder> you, fake and clifford?
[10:33] <th> with "backed by the community" i meant "some support/words from someone != myself"
[10:33] <th> there is no need to rant. i intend no offense.
[10:34] <blindcoder> well, here's my word: make it so that it supports all that initrd supports now and I'm fine with either solution
[10:34] <blindcoder> until then, I will fix the problem that arise in the current one
[10:34] <th> the only ranting which i have to admit is what i call echo for your udev ranting.
[10:35] <blindcoder> ie: I want dm-crypt support in initramfs that is compatible to the one in initrd now
[10:35] <blindcoder> otherwise it'd be an inferior solution to an already solved problem
[10:35] <th> compatible with which version? it's still not self-compatible
[10:36] <th> i think we should aim for compatability with something which is a common standard.
[10:36] <th> not with something homebrew
[10:36] <blindcoder> the standard is dm-crypt from the linux kernel
[10:37] <th> i'm talking of a standard for key setups
[10:37] <blindcoder> I suggested the change in setup of the encryption because SMP pointed out a problem with it
[10:37] <th> i know that much
[10:37] <blindcoder> if you have a problem with the new/old version, say it in submaster or rock-devel where people can read and comment it even if they happen to not be here right now
[10:38] <blindcoder> saying "XYZ sucks" here is as good as writing it to /dev/null
[10:38] <th> i did not say that.
[10:38] <th> i made the proposal to follow some known standard
[10:38] <blindcoder> besides, why not just use the provided plugin interface?
[10:39] <blindcoder> then everything is fine
[10:39] <blindcoder> there is none
[10:39] <blindcoder> at least none that I am aware of
[10:39] <th> i think a foobar.d/ directory is a "plugin interface"
[10:39] <th> http://luks.endorphin.org/
[10:39] <blindcoder> the standard is "give dmsetup a passphrase"
[10:40] <th> debian, fedora, suse, mandrake, even MSwindows
[10:40] <th> and "give dmsetup a passphrase" is what usually breaks compatibility
[10:40] <blindcoder> so why do you only bring this up NOW and HERE?
[10:40] <th> because i'm answering to your words.
[10:41] <blindcoder> so up til now you've been brooding over this, silently cursing me for doing incompatible stuff?
[10:42] <th> no. i was not "brooding" only slightly ignorant about your approach while testing another.
[10:42] <blindcoder> aaah, so you were fine with wasting manpower which is increasingly sparse in ROCK anyway
[10:42] <blindcoder> now I see
[10:43] <th> you're ranting again.
[10:43] <blindcoder> no, I want an explanation of why you refuse to point these things out when they occur to you
[10:44] <th> i just do.
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[10:44] <blindcoder> should I now approach you before I submit a patch: "Oh great th, do you know of a better way to do this?"
[10:45] <th> it seems that if i dont do what you propose you call it brooding.
[10:45] <blindcoder> I always thought submaster was there for reviewing and discussing patches
[10:45] <blindcoder> which clearly isn't happening or you would have brought this up a lot sooner
[10:45] <th> and there is no patch yet. because it's just not clear how to bring it into trunk
[10:46] <blindcoder> harddisk encryption using dm-crypt isn't in rock since only yesterday
[10:46] <th> i had no problems with the dm-crypt ongoings before.
[10:47] <th> and the only thing i do now is the proposal to follow some standard.
[10:47] <blindcoder> so why didn't you bring that up sooner?
[10:47] <blindcoder> besides, the 'not following a standard' also was your argument for not integrating harddisk encryption into your initramfs
[10:50] <th> (sorry for delay; back now)
[10:50] <th> why not sooner? i brought my mkinitramfs work up only few hours after i started thinking about it.
[10:51] <th> and my knowledge about that standard is from SMP and only few days old.
[10:51] <th> so i'm bringing it up as early as it was/is possible
[10:51] <blindcoder> I found one mail on rock-devel containing "initramfs"
[10:51] <th> "besides, the 'not following a standard' also was your argument for not integrating harddisk encryption into your initramfs" could you repeat this somehow please?
[10:52] <blindcoder> 10:30 < blindcoder> ie: I want dm-crypt support in initramfs that is compatible to the one in initrd now
[10:52] <blindcoder> 10:31 < th> compatible with which version? it's still not self-compatible
[10:52] <blindcoder> 10:32 < th> i think we should aim for compatability with something which is a common standard.
[10:52] <th> i'm not absolutely not against dm-crypt in initramfs.
[10:52] <th> it should be fairly easy
[10:53] <th> but _i_ dont want to put the current approach into it. because i'd prefer something more standard.
[10:53] <th> but i've no problem at all if you just put your script in there.
[10:53] <blindcoder> th: I also prefer a "standard" way if there is one
[10:53] <blindcoder> which is why I'm currently looking into cryptsetup-luks
[10:54] <th> as you said: < blindcoder> the standard is "give dmsetup a passphrase"
[10:54] <th> there is the needed standard
[10:54] <blindcoder> that's the one I knew of
[10:54] <blindcoder> if there is a de facto standard of software harddisk encryption (which cryptsetup-luks seems to be) then we should obviously use that
[10:55] <th> that's what i think.
[10:55] <th> and i still dont understand why you feel so offended.
[10:55] <blindcoder> because your behaviour feels like backstabbing
[10:55] <th> can you point this out to me?
[10:55] <blindcoder> always going on about how my work on initrd is futile
[10:56] <th> ahh the tinkering.
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[10:56] <th> yea sorry for that.
[10:57] <blindcoder> then when I point out that I don't care if it's initrd or initramfs as long as the new version has the same features as the old version you go on to point out flaws in another thing I put a lot of work into
[10:57] <th> i just think that it's time for initramfs. and you seem to be holding on the rockinitrd. and i guess that's because of  your dislike for udev
[10:58] <th> yes, and you did not they "thanks" for pointing out the flaws.
[10:58] <th> i guess i did as you pointed out the /sbin not in $PATH issue for my mkinitramfs
[10:58] <blindcoder> if udev works (which it seems to do in recent versions) I'm as happy as a child in a candystore
[10:59] Nick change: ija_ -> ija
[10:59] <blindcoder> when devfs was removed from the kernel udev definately was not ready as a replacement
[11:00] <blindcoder> please don't get me wrong, I _am_ thankful for pointing out problems with my code
[11:00] <blindcoder> but my gratefulness varies a lot depending on the presentation of the problems
[11:00] <th> "you go on to point out flaws in" .. sounded like you're charging me for it.
[11:01] <blindcoder> for example consider this: "I found out that a lot of distributions use this to encrypt filesystems. <link> Maybe we should do it that way, too?"
[11:02] <blindcoder> sound a lot more friendly than what I read in my IRC backlog
[11:03] <th> yea - our thread was not the most friendly one at that point.
[11:04] <blindcoder> yeah, sorry about that. probably my fault for being too proud of my work
[11:09] <th> no need to excuse. i did not feel offended.
[11:17] <blindcoder> I see one thing that I don't like about LUKS: it is install-time only. You can't convert to/from it after installation
[11:18] <th> i somehow doubt that
[11:19] <blindcoder> luks works like this:
[11:19] <th> but thats only a feeling
[11:19] <blindcoder> let's say this is your harddisk:
[11:19] <blindcoder> |----------------------------|
[11:19] <blindcoder> then luks takes the first 1032 blocks? bytes?
[11:19] <blindcoder> |LUKS|-----------------------|
[11:20] <blindcoder> in this it stores the actual encryption keys which can be unlocked with a passphrase
[11:20] <th> these bytes are unused anyways, no?
[11:20] <blindcoder> no
[11:20] <blindcoder> they are used
[11:20] <blindcoder> at least they are accessible by /dev/discs/disc0/part2
[11:20] <th> at least the first 512 are _not_
[11:20] <th> part2?
[11:21] <th> ahh i was talking of a disk.
[11:21] <blindcoder> or part1 or part3 or part4
[11:21] <th> not a part
[11:21] <blindcoder> ah, sorry
[11:21] <blindcoder> should have said partition
[11:21] <blindcoder> anyway, we _could_ do this
[11:21] <blindcoder> ugly, but hey :)
[11:22] <blindcoder> we could generally create our filesystems with an offset of 1032 blocks using device-mapper
[11:22] <blindcoder> which would probably enable us to switch to and from LUKS at the expense of half a megabyte per partition
[11:22] <th> long time ago that i had a filesystem on a partition ;)
[11:23] <th> so i'm not really aware of these "small problems" hehe
[11:23] <th> once you get used to LVM...
[11:23] <blindcoder> well, my machines mostly have just one disk
[11:23] <blindcoder> --- /dev/discs/disc0/part2
[11:23] <blindcoder> Block device, size 972.7 MiB (1019934720 bytes)
[11:23] <blindcoder> --- /dev/mapper/foo
[11:23] <blindcoder> Block device, size 972.2 MiB (1019406336 bytes)
[11:23] <blindcoder> I think this is an acceptable tradeoff, really
[11:23] <th> i'm on the road now. bbiaw
[11:51] <esden> moin
[11:52] <blindcoder> moin moin esden 
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[14:45] <blindcoder> re
[14:46] <fake> hi
[14:48] <blindcoder> moin fake 
[14:48] <fake> hidiho
[14:48] <fake> blindcoder: great idea @modinfo
[14:48] <fake> though i think we can totally drop all .o / 2.4 stuff
[14:50] <blindcoder> I clearly remember someone still using ROCK with 2.4
[14:51] <blindcoder> so I wasn't keen on removing it
[14:51] <blindcoder> fake: comments on my RFC?
[14:53] <fake> blindcoder: pfff... i guess you know what you're doing
[14:54] <blindcoder> of course I am. I just don't know what the result of what I'm doing will be :)
[14:55] <fake> let's just see - if someone needs industrial-strength encryption, he'll tell if it is sucks or anything
[14:57] <blindcoder> the encryption mechanism is the same, really
[14:57] <blindcoder> just the way the passphrase is set up is different
[14:58] <blindcoder> what speaks for luks is that "all the cool kids are doing it"
[15:00] <fake> all the cool kids use gentoo, too
[15:00] <fake> or ubuntu or something
[15:00] <blindcoder> I've also sent a mail to the dm-crypt mailing explaining what I want to achieve, how I want to do it and asked for comments there
[15:00] <fake> that's nice
[15:00] <blindcoder> heh :)
[15:01] <blindcoder> hmm
[15:01] <blindcoder> the udev package is broken in LVP :(
[15:07] <blindcoder> /sys/block/hd[bcd] are present
[15:07] <blindcoder> and look sane
[15:07] <blindcoder> by they don't appear in /dev/
[15:17] <blindcoder> ARGH
[15:20] <blindcoder> I'm absolutely sure I fixed this a while ago
[15:22] <blindcoder> HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
[15:22] <blindcoder> works again :D
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[15:24] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[15:26] <blindcoder> now this is totally fucked up...
[15:26] <blindcoder> somethings severely broken in this build
[15:27] <blindcoder> I just don't know why
[15:28] <blindcoder> udev with an empty flist, files that shouldn't exist
[15:29] <blindcoder> ah
[15:29] <blindcoder> there they are
[15:33] <blindcoder> at last, it works :D
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[16:52] <blindcoder> YAY!
[16:53] <blindcoder> next LVP version just around the corenr :D
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[17:51] <esden> YEY! I will order my MBP 17" on monday!!! woot!
[18:10] <blindcoder> MBP 17"?
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[18:32] <esden> blindcoder: MacBook Pro 17" with 1GB Ram, 120GB Disk, 2,16Ghz CoreDuo, ISight, 17" display, SuperDrive (burns DVD's and so on) ;)
[18:37] Action: blindcoder shakes his head
[18:37] <blindcoder> I really wonder how you students have so much money on your hands
[19:23] <esden> blindcoder: erm ... I work hard and still live like a student ... so I spend nearly to no money but earn a bit ... that is the trick
[19:26] <blindcoder> I see
[19:26] <blindcoder> maybe I should cut down on blackjack and hookers
[19:27] <esden> that would be an idea ;)
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[19:42] <blindcoder> *grunt*
[19:42] <blindcoder> damn sourceforge
[19:42] <blindcoder> <lvplayer-svncommit@lists.sourceforge.net>: message size 1106719 exceeds size
[19:42] <blindcoder>     limit 1048576 of server mail.sourceforge.net[66.35.250.206]
[19:50] <blindcoder> YAY!
[19:50] <blindcoder> LVP 0.5.3 tagged and building :D
[19:59] <esden> damn sf because of the broken CVS currently >_<
[19:59] <esden> that sucks the most
[19:59] Action: esden -> home
[19:59] <esden> cu l8er
[20:03] <blindcoder> esden: broken cvs?
[20:03] <blindcoder> esden: works fine here
[20:19] <mnemoc> they are switching to SVN and they also changed the hostname pattern
[20:19] <blindcoder> yeah, already changed that
[20:19] <blindcoder> and they are not "switching to svn"
[20:19] <blindcoder> they offer svn and cvs
[20:23] <blindcoder> anyway, i could download from sf.net cvs repositories just fine
[20:26] <mnemoc> :)
[20:26] <blindcoder> anyway, the ice cream awaits
[20:26] <blindcoder> bbl
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[00:00] --- Sat May 13 2006