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[02:51] kasc_ (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-102-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [03:01] kasc (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-104-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [03:01] Nick change: kasc_ -> kasc [05:44] ija_ (n=ija@84.19.222.56) joined #rocklinux. [05:58] ija (n=ija@84.19.222.212) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [06:25] blindcoder (i=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Remote closed the connection [06:54] Pilot (n=pilot@212.48.133.193) joined #rocklinux. [08:10] blindcoder (n=blindcod@tor/session/external/x-2049b6990b28a1bc) joined #rocklinux. [08:10] Pilot (n=pilot@212.48.133.193) left irc: "quitting" [08:10] <blindcoder> moin [08:36] madtux (i=miguel@pf0.hostarica.com) left irc: "Leaving" [09:04] <blindcoder> th, fake, clifford: we need a release. and we need it soon. [10:15] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) left irc: Nick collision from services. [10:15] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) joined #rocklinux. [10:15] th (n=th@montana.hbsn.de) left irc: Client Quit [10:16] th (n=th@80.78.84.66) joined #rocklinux. [10:42] <esden> moin [10:43] <blindcoder> moin moin esden [10:53] <blindcoder> must be a thursday [10:53] <blindcoder> I never got the knack of thursdays [10:55] <blindcoder> esden: got a bogon sink I can carry around as a shield? [11:02] <esden> blindcoder: no sorry ... otherwise I would attatch it to pallas. [11:02] <esden> blindcoder: localization is not working ... and I have no idea how to fix it [11:02] <esden> and I need it badly [11:03] <esden> because of an unknown reason php needs working localization on the machine to be able to use gettext in the php sites [11:03] <esden> and I have to use it >_< [11:03] <esden> *GRAAAA* [11:09] <blindcoder> any meaningful error message? [11:53] <esden> blindcoder: no error [11:53] <esden> simply the function setlocale returns false in php [11:53] <esden> and in the php documentation they say that when false is returned then the gettext functionality is not supported or so [11:54] <esden> and I also could not switch the locale on the console of pallas by setting LANG [11:54] <esden> that is really strange [11:54] <esden> I would be really thankfull if you could also take a look in to that problem [11:54] <esden> at least on the console [11:55] <blindcoder> when I ate something [11:55] <esden> or on an installed rocklinux at home [11:55] <blindcoder> I'm currently about to commit murder [11:55] <blindcoder> so I need a break _desperately_ [11:55] <esden> uiii ... why? [11:55] <blindcoder> it's thursday [11:55] <blindcoder> that's why [11:55] <esden> blindcoder: sure do a break [11:55] <blindcoder> bbl [11:55] <esden> cu blindcoder [12:25] <fake> hi there [12:25] <fake> blindcoder: i'm all for it. [12:25] <blindcoder> re [12:26] <blindcoder> fake: thanks, now we're at least three people [12:26] <blindcoder> fake: you see, I'm really tired of having to tell people that ROCK isn't dead even though it looks like a dead horse [12:27] <blindcoder> fake: but I'm not in a position to actually say: This is a release, this isn't [12:27] <blindcoder> I can only push the stuff to the websites and magazines if there is something I can show the [12:28] <th> for the release? [12:28] <th> of course [12:28] <th> i'm for it [12:28] <fake> hi th :) [12:28] <blindcoder> moin th [12:28] <fake> *kachung* four [12:28] <blindcoder> th, fake: so, what _is_ needed for a release? [12:29] <blindcoder> a GUI installer? [12:29] <blindcoder> unattended installation? [12:29] <blindcoder> documentation? [12:29] <blindcoder> $ULTIMATE_PACKAGE_THAT_WE_ABSOLUTELY_NEED_TO_HAVE? [12:29] <fake> initramfs would be really helpful [12:29] Action: esden is also for a release ;) [12:30] <blindcoder> fake: then please help me convince th that he creates a package and infrastructure for it [12:30] <fake> th: pretty please? [12:31] <blindcoder> although we (c|sh)ould probably use the existing infrastructure from the mkinitrd [12:31] <blindcoder> fake: but helpful != necessary [12:31] <blindcoder> fake: I'm talking about stuff that prevents us from releasing ROCK 3.0 [12:32] <fake> there will be a version number? oh no... [12:32] <fake> i thought we'll just release snapshots? [12:32] <fake> like rocklinux-source-2006-05-19.tar.bz2 ? [12:33] <th> putting my mkinitramfs into a rock package is on my todo. [12:33] <th> and "on my todo" does not allow a precise date when it happens [12:33] <th> that's the mess [12:34] <blindcoder> well, do we really need initramfs? [12:34] <blindcoder> I'm not saying that it's not a good idea [12:34] <blindcoder> but we already have a solution for this problem [12:34] <th> 12:29:41 < blindcoder> well, do we really need initramfs? [12:34] <th> yes we do. [12:34] <th> but do we need it for a realease [12:34] <th> i dont know [12:34] <th> but we need another installer [12:35] <th> that's my opinion [12:35] <blindcoder> th: sorry, I meant for the release [12:35] <blindcoder> th: I agree that we need it sooner or later [12:35] <blindcoder> th: and in this regard I prefer sooner [12:35] daja77_ (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-046-003.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [12:35] <blindcoder> th: okay, so we need another installer [12:35] <blindcoder> th: what does it need to support? [12:35] <blindcoder> th: or rather, how does it need to differ from the current one? [12:35] <blindcoder> th: it should use /dev/disk instead of /dev/discs [12:35] <blindcoder> th: that's for sure [12:36] Action: blindcoder opens the wiki page Roadmap [12:37] <blindcoder> next? [12:38] <fake> th: the installer is fine for now. [12:39] <th> hmmm [12:39] <th> ok. i guess i just wont like the release then [12:39] <fake> one thing that needs fixing is the 'hardware detection' dialog [12:39] <blindcoder> th: it's currently not about liking or not liking [12:39] <blindcoder> th: I don't like several stuff [12:40] <blindcoder> th: but we really need a release in the vain hope that we might actually polish our image of a dead horse [12:41] <stf^rocklinux> moin [12:42] <blindcoder> moin stf^rocklinux [12:42] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: your opinion is also welcome [12:42] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: what do you think do we _need_ absolutely _need_ in an upcoming release? [12:42] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I second your last statement (altough I haven't read the previous ones yet) [12:43] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: that depends largely on when I want this release to upcome... [12:44] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: and I want it to appear soon, so I'd want only one or two essential patches added [12:44] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: exactly [12:45] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-043-047.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [12:45] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: we do need it soon, so "cosmetic" changes or "I don't like this" should be left out for now [12:45] <blindcoder> I would love to write a joystick module for stone [12:45] <blindcoder> but that has to wait, too [12:45] <fake> stf^rocklinux: the /var/adm/* fixes @checksums are already in trunk, right? [12:46] <stf^rocklinux> so far I'm quite pleased with current trunk. But e.g. hal/dbus running by default would be really nice and safe us from a lot of puzzled users. [12:46] <stf^rocklinux> fake: yes, that's solved in latest $topic release [12:47] <stf^rocklinux> or, regarding hal/dbus, at least write a short documentation about common configuration steps after installation [12:47] <blindcoder> hal and dbus does what exactly? [12:48] <th> "magic" [12:48] <blindcoder> heh [12:48] <blindcoder> what kind of magic [12:49] <fake> black magic [12:49] <blindcoder> okay, what hapens after the magic? [12:49] <fake> you die. [12:50] <fake> ;-) [12:50] <blindcoder> hehe [12:50] <blindcoder> no, really what does hal and dbus do? [12:50] Action: blindcoder casts "rocks fall, everybody dies" [12:50] <fake> it makes driver and device handling more desktop-friendly [12:51] <blindcoder> okay, I would consider this necessary [12:51] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: dbus=simple interprocess-communication, hal=hardware abstraction layer, (hal uses dbus) [12:51] <fake> if you plug in a usb stick with those 2 running and kde compiled with support for them, a popup will offer you to mount the stick, etc. [12:51] <blindcoder> fake: ah, okay [12:51] <blindcoder> absolutely necessary [12:53] <stf^rocklinux> btw. I'd guess giving a new version number to the next release would draw more attention to it than a mere 2006-x-y... [12:53] <daja77_> moin [12:53] <stf^rocklinux> moin daja77 :) [12:53] <blindcoder> moin daja77_ [12:54] <fake> stf^rocklinux: right, but it imposes some abi stability we don't guarantee [12:54] <fake> api [12:54] <fake> whatever [12:54] <daja77_> hi fake [12:54] <blindcoder> fake: why don't we just do "what everyone else does"? number them by YEAR.NUMBER [12:54] <blindcoder> 2006.1, 2006.2 etc [12:55] <fake> only genpoo does that [12:55] <blindcoder> OTOH, we _did_ start with the major.minor version numbers [12:55] <blindcoder> and should probably stick to them [12:55] <blindcoder> just look at the mess that is Linux Kernel versioning [12:56] <stf^rocklinux> I agree, btw. we didn't say anywhere that API compatibility can be deduced from version numbers [12:56] <blindcoder> exactly [12:56] <fake> stf^rocklinux: that's common sense, at least IMHO [12:56] <blindcoder> the jump from 1.x to 2.x came from major changes in the scripts/ [12:57] <fake> ... which are api breaks, after all [12:57] <blindcoder> yes [12:57] <blindcoder> so where's the hurt in versioning the next release 3.0? [12:58] <fake> we'd make sure to not change .conf/.desc file formate within 3.x [12:58] <fake> *have to [12:58] <blindcoder> so then we'd number it 4.x if we do [12:58] <blindcoder> big hairy deal [12:58] <fake> yes. there aren't enough numbers. i promise you we'll run out... and then? [12:58] <fake> then it's over. [12:58] <fake> we're all gonna die. [12:59] <blindcoder> oh, the set of |R is _big_ :) [12:59] <stf^rocklinux> it looks impossible for me that the ROCK version could ever reflect the API compatibility of all contained distros... [12:59] <fake> okay, okay [12:59] <blindcoder> fake: if we run out of numbers, we'll call them names :) [13:00] <fake> stf^rocklinux: but i.e. calls in .conf files, like hooks, special variables like autogen=1, etc [13:00] <daja77_> .oO (let's choose a stupid movie with lots of characters in it and name each release after one of them) [13:00] <fake> Mystery Science Theatre 3000! [13:00] <blindcoder> YAY! [13:00] <blindcoder> fake: but there aren't many of them, are there? [13:01] <blindcoder> daja77_: The Rock! [13:01] <stf^rocklinux> ... not so impossible on a second thought... (since the p ackage versions used in each distro are the same) [13:01] <fake> Mike, Dipsy, Tom, Crow, Dr. Forrester [13:01] <blindcoder> fake: I still have to watch MST3k [13:01] <fake> then there are Brex, and Exitter, and Dr. Mitchem and... [13:01] <fake> Illona Christen [13:01] <daja77_> hehe [13:01] <daja77_> would be my favourite [13:02] <fake> ROCK Linux 3.0 "Illona" ? [13:02] <blindcoder> anyway [13:02] <fake> Oh, and of course, there's Wep [13:02] <blindcoder> so far I have "hal/dbus" integration as necessity for the next version [13:02] <daja77_> yeah each release gets the name of a talk show [13:02] <blindcoder> what about udevtrigger/udevsettle? [13:03] <blindcoder> not yet in bootdisk [13:04] <daja77_> i don't even know what it is [13:04] <daja77_> :/ [13:04] <blindcoder> not not in initscript either [13:05] <blindcoder> daja77_: the correct way to start udev [13:05] <blindcoder> coldstart udev [13:05] <daja77_> ah [13:05] <daja77_> the correct[tm] way [13:05] <daja77_> :) [13:05] <blindcoder> okay, so now I have two things we need to do [13:05] <blindcoder> daja77_: well, the way suggested by the udev devs [13:06] <blindcoder> okay what else? [13:06] <stf^rocklinux> udev hotplugging (see th's patch) is also important (no usb, .. module autoloading without it here) [13:06] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: smid? [13:06] <stf^rocklinux> 2006051109432731480 [13:06] <blindcoder> okay [13:07] <th> blindcoder: can you compile a list? [13:07] <daja77_> what about new stuff like cups and apache 2.2? [13:07] <blindcoder> th: just what I'm doing now [13:07] <blindcoder> th: in the wiki Roadmap page [13:07] <stf^rocklinux> new cups requires kdelibs to be patched... [13:07] <blindcoder> daja77_: nice to have, but not for a release that should be here "soon" [13:07] <stf^rocklinux> I'd say cups has to wait [13:07] <fake> wait with apache 2.2 [13:08] <blindcoder> daja77_: I'm totally talking showstoppers [13:08] <blindcoder> daja77_: stuff that does not work but can be expected to "just work" [13:08] <blindcoder> hmm [13:08] <blindcoder> < Help > entries for all scripts/Config options [13:08] <daja77_> your sentence doesn't make sense .. [13:08] <fake> newer versions are no show stopper except for security fixes [13:09] <daja77_> yeah hopefully the next ff release is really at the end of may and not tomorrow .. [13:09] Pilot (n=pilot@212.48.133.193) joined #rocklinux. [13:09] <blindcoder> hehe [13:09] <blindcoder> moin Pilot [13:12] <blindcoder> https://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Roadmap [13:13] <Pilot> blindcoder: yo [13:15] <stf^rocklinux> php5 fix is also worthy including imo, see 2006051719251915091 and 2006051720521469070 (without it php5 won't build with Build-Target) [13:15] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: ack [13:15] <daja77_> /dev/disk instead of /dev/discs argl [13:16] <blindcoder> Pilot: you got any showstoppers you would like to see fixed in the next release of ROCK which will be here "real soon now"? [13:16] <blindcoder> daja77_: hm? [13:16] <daja77_> stf^rocklinux: why so, it did here after the latest update i made [13:16] <Pilot> blindcoder: eeerrr... [13:16] <Pilot> i haven't touched Rocklinux for ages [13:16] <blindcoder> Pilot: we're collecting :) [13:16] <daja77_> blindcoder: just hate stupid renaming which is almost the same [13:16] <Pilot> may be, /etc/net ? [13:17] <stf^rocklinux> daja77_: php5 tries to download install-pear-nozlib.phar during build [13:17] <Pilot> i had a plan to spend 2 months in Tokyo integrating /etc/net into more distributions... but the plan failed [13:17] <blindcoder> daja77_: it's not [13:17] <fake> daja77_: not instead, additionally [13:18] <daja77_> ic [13:18] <blindcoder> daja77_: /dev/disk has a static naming scheme, so devices will always be the same [13:18] <daja77_> hm [13:18] <blindcoder> daja77_: /dev/discs depends on the order of adding the devices [13:18] <blindcoder> Pilot: I've seen /etc/net on shellscripts.org [13:18] <blindcoder> Pilot: but I have not yet had a look at it :( [13:18] Action: fake once looked into /etc/net [13:18] <fake> it's integration is planned. [13:19] <daja77_> stf^rocklinux: yeah i saw your problem, just never had them, hm [13:19] <fake> but it's nonintegration is not a show stopper (triple-negation! yay!) [13:19] <Pilot> double [13:19] Action: daja77_ gives fake a chalk and a blackboard [13:20] <blindcoder> hehe [13:20] <blindcoder> https://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Roadmap [13:23] <fake> Pilot: stopping is a negation, too [13:23] <fake> Pilot: of some kind, at least [13:24] <fake> cool, someone put daft punk music videos on our fileserver [13:24] <fake> n1c3 [13:24] <blindcoder> hehe [13:25] <blindcoder> okay, I submitted a patch for the udevtrigger/udevsettle stuff [13:25] <blindcoder> untested, of course ;) [13:25] <stf^rocklinux> the fix to Update-Src seems to be another "low-hanging fruit" for the next release (2006051512303819678) [13:26] <blindcoder> yes [13:26] <fake> yes, and it fixes a bug in flyspray [13:26] <fake> blindcoder: there are only like 20 bugs in flyspray, not 250 ;) [13:26] <blindcoder> fake: when I'm fired up, I tend to overestimate :) [13:27] <daja77_> it is easy to lit blindy [13:27] Action: blindcoder : Handle with care! Inflammable/Flameable substance! [13:28] <stf^rocklinux> I could write the missing Config help texts this evening [13:28] <blindcoder> especially when I have hairspray applied [13:28] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: that would be great! [13:28] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: if you want to make your life a bit easier, you can just cat all .in and .hlp files together and apply a bit of shell magic to see missing help texts [13:29] <blindcoder> at least that's how I did it last time :) [13:29] <stf^rocklinux> will do :) [13:30] Action: fake crackattack-addicted [13:30] <daja77_> hehe only played it once [13:30] <daja77_> i was dead too quickly [13:32] <blindcoder> hehe [13:32] <blindcoder> fake: you should play some slashem! [13:32] <stf^rocklinux> do your printers work with latest trunk/release? [13:32] <blindcoder> no printer [13:34] <stf^rocklinux> afair mine worked out of the box with latest crystal [13:35] <fake> yes, it does here [13:35] <fake> cups rules [13:36] <daja77_> sort of [13:40] <stf^rocklinux> btw. someone should check if the new sun-jdk15 package (with DLJ) is different from the old one (since it's homepage says so) [13:40] <stf^rocklinux> or we simply don't add it to the next release [13:42] <fake> i suggest we don't do that just yet. [13:44] <stf^rocklinux> ok, so let's defer the new Java license to a latter release? [13:45] <fake> yes. [13:46] <fake> we need to implement license viewing to mine... in some way. something like 'preinstall' scripts [13:46] <daja77_> O_o [13:47] <stf^rocklinux> fake: I'm not quite sure about this, but to clarify it I think it takes more time... [13:48] <fake> i'm not sure either [13:49] <daja77_> .oO (have you read the license, if no please enter yes to complete the install) [13:50] <fake> haha [13:51] <fake> reminds of debian, where you once needed to enter "Yes, I know exactly what I'm doing!" on a dist-upgrade [13:52] <stf^rocklinux> daja77_: I think the relevant part from the DLJ is 2. (d) you do not remove or modify any included license [13:52] <stf^rocklinux> agreement or impede or prevent it from displaying and requiring [13:52] <stf^rocklinux> acceptance; [13:54] <stf^rocklinux> but I am not a lawyer, so I can't tell you exactly what implications this has ... [13:54] <daja77_> well if you are using things you have accepted the license .. [13:54] <fake> daja77_: that's questionable. [13:54] <fake> daja77_: it depends on the law of the country you're in. [13:54] <daja77_> this display and click thing has no meaning at least in .de [13:55] <fake> daja77_: but you can't agree to a license by using without being informed beforehand, which means you have to be presented with the license upon first use [13:56] <daja77_> in .de there are just AGBs anyway but we have a license information in each gem, we could just replace the commercial entry with a link to the license [13:57] <daja77_> and print a big fat warning: please read the license before using this package [13:58] <daja77_> on install [13:58] <stf^rocklinux> bbl [13:59] <stf^rocklinux> gotta go... [14:00] <blindcoder> ah, finally done [14:01] <blindcoder> as far as I am concerned, this thursday is over [14:01] <daja77_> ? [14:05] <blindcoder> daja77_: thursdays suck [14:05] <blindcoder> daja77_: as a rule of thumb [14:05] <blindcoder> daja77_: every thursday I encounter is a day I should have stayed in bed [14:05] <blindcoder> today I had to talk to idiots, morons, stupid people and ties before 9 AM [14:05] <blindcoder> and the day didn't really improve much until 5 minutes ago [14:06] <daja77_> ic [14:07] <daja77_> .oO (thursday - blindcoder's monday) [14:07] <blindcoder> yeah [14:07] <blindcoder> mondays I can handle [14:08] <blindcoder> but I just don't get the knack of thursdays (to quote a certain book) [14:08] <fake> every day just sucks [14:08] <blindcoder> fake: oh no, not entirely [14:08] <blindcoder> fake: mondays are a bit bad, but they lighten up as it gets 7 PM [14:08] <blindcoder> tuesdays and wednesdays are great [14:08] <blindcoder> then comes thursday... [14:08] <blindcoder> and friday is jsut a blast [14:09] <blindcoder> saturday and sunday are fine [14:09] <blindcoder> lather, rinse, repeat [14:10] <fake> th: mind if i apply some stuff? [14:11] <th> fake: not at all [14:12] <fake> th: non-core stuff with sleeping developers, thinkning of 2006050416395528797, 2006050419065418886, 2006050817570025240 and 2006051322550613911 [14:14] <blindcoder> fake: 2006050817570025240 should be fine, I just don't have a mobile phone to test with anymore [14:14] <blindcoder> lacking a datacable [14:16] <th> fake: i'm for committing non-core patches of dead-devs after a short grace period [14:16] <fake> th: why? so it seems like we actually care? [14:16] <blindcoder> hehe [14:17] <fake> *g* [14:17] <th> fake: yes [14:17] <fake> besides, the newest one is from 13th, that's 5 days of grace [14:19] <th> which is enough [14:19] <fake> so leaving it liggering 5 days is enough? what's not enough? [14:19] <th> 2 days [14:19] <th> and 3 days [14:20] <th> and 4 days [14:20] <th> i dont know [14:20] <th> about a week sounds fair to me [14:20] <th> fair enough [14:20] <fake> i thought so ;) [14:20] <daja77_> <- sleeping developer [14:20] Action: daja77_ crashing head on the table [14:20] <fake> the missing pro-voters are sleeping [14:21] <blindcoder> yesyes [14:21] <blindcoder> I just picked up the joystick package and fixed it, so the scmxx package had to wait :) [14:21] <blindcoder> btw, there's a new libSDL [14:31] Pilot (n=pilot@212.48.133.193) left irc: "quitting" [14:51] Nick change: ija_ -> ija [15:07] <blindcoder> note to self: init 5 does not shut a linux machine down [15:07] <blindcoder> anyway, I'm off for now [15:07] <blindcoder> bbl [15:26] blindcod1r (i=debian-t@tor/session/external/x-c1e8d4e7804ca26f) joined #rocklinux. [15:26] blindcoder (n=blindcod@tor/regular/blindcoder) left irc: Nick collision from services. [15:27] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder [15:52] BoS (n=root@dslb-088-072-034-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [17:20] netrunner (n=andreas@anvame.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection [17:21] netrunner (n=andreas@anvame.net) joined #rocklinux. [17:59] lonn (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) joined #rocklinux. [17:59] lonn_ (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) joined #rocklinux. [18:12] lonn_ (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: "leaving" [21:53] <stf^rocklinux> I've added most missing Config help texts now, see https://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/?mode=patch&uid=2006051821464159100 [22:34] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: great! [22:35] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: wb [22:36] <stf^rocklinux> btw I think we should defer the new DLJ license because of unsolved issues regarding its application [22:37] <blindcoder> the "display of the license" thingie? [22:37] <stf^rocklinux> yes, also the new sun-jdk15 package needs more testing (because it's supposed to be different to the old one) [22:55] <blindcoder> well, we have a working java package for now, even though it's inconvenient [22:56] <blindcoder> anyway, thanks for the help texts [22:56] <blindcoder> and I'm off to bed now [22:56] <blindcoder> see you lot tomorrow [23:01] <stf^rocklinux> gn8 [23:38] lonn (n=sam@fla93-1-81-57-168-33.fbx.proxad.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) [00:00] --- Fri May 19 2006