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[05:18] Lucifer_arma (n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com) joined #rocklinux.
[07:09] <blindcoder> moin
[07:21] <Lucifer_arma> morning
[07:22] <Lucifer_arma> so, I checked out t2, and it looks like that's what I'm going to be working with.  sorry.
[07:23] <Lucifer_arma> I also scored the article with newsforge, and it looks like I'll be writing it on t2.
[07:23] <Lucifer_arma> after some pretty close examination, I felt that t2 was the more advanced package.
[07:33] <blindcoder> well, have fun then :)
[07:35] <blindcoder> Lucifer_arma: give my greeting to rxr
[07:35] Action: blindcoder off to work now
[07:35] <Lucifer_arma> have fun
[07:35] Lucifer_arma (n=dave@user-0vvdcf9.cable.mindspring.com) left #rocklinux ("Core dumped.").
[08:11] <blindcoder> re
[10:10] <th> stf^rocklinux: thanks for that patch.
[13:04] blindcod1r (n=blindcod@tor/session/external/x-9ff5c4ee3ec41286) joined #rocklinux.
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[13:05] Nick change: blindcod1r -> blindcoder
[13:21] <blindcoder> re
[13:22] <blindcoder> well, guess there goes another potential dev/user that got turned off by the development model
[13:26] <daja77> perhaps rene promised to rewrite scripts in python ...
[13:28] <blindcoder> I'd rather not imagine rewriting any major part
[13:28] <daja77> :)
[13:29] <blindcoder> [ Don't fix working code. ]
[13:30] <daja77> to be honest i didn't like the style of his mail
[13:31] <blindcoder> well, I agree with Lucifer_arma in large parts
[13:31] <th> american style. that is.
[13:32] <daja77> i mean this I am in if you do this and that thing
[13:32] <blindcoder> I don't like this submaster-proxying, either
[13:32] <blindcoder> daja77: yes, true
[13:32] <blindcoder> daja77: people with this attitude are better told: okay, there's the door.
[13:33] <blindcoder> I don't like the submaster thing, either, so I tried convincing clifford of my view
[13:33] <blindcoder> well, I failed :)
[13:33] <daja77> and this rewrite it in python because that's the only language i can handle was rather funny
[13:34] <blindcoder> hehe
[13:35] <blindcoder> hmm
[13:35] <blindcoder> I wonder if I could write an IRC bot that posts news on incoming mails via [X] Send mails on special events
[13:36] <blindcoder> so that we can see real-time how builds are coming along
[13:36] <daja77> thought we already had such a bot
[13:37] <blindcoder> I had written a plugin that could communicate with irssi
[13:37] <blindcoder> but clifford didn't apply it to trunk
[13:37] <daja77> for submaster?
[13:37] <blindcoder> for scripts/Config
[13:38] <daja77> hm
[13:52] <blindcoder> hmm
[13:52] <blindcoder> why do we use /etc/rc.d/init.d?
[13:52] <blindcoder> and not /etc/init.d?
[13:52] <th> /etc/init.d -> rc.d/init.d
[13:53] <blindcoder> hmm, okay
[13:53] <blindcoder> feierabend, bbl
[14:46] <blindcoder> re
[16:11] <stf^rocklinux> moin
[16:14] <blindcoder> moin moin
[16:14] <stf^rocklinux> Lucifer didn't even respond my answer to his mail :(
[16:15] <stf^rocklinux> whatever...
[16:20] <stf^rocklinux> although I think I made it quite clear that in ROCK the chance to contribute equally is not related to commit access... 
[16:23] <blindcoder> yeah
[16:23] <blindcoder> sucks, but still
[16:27] <blindcoder> gcc 4.1.1 released
[16:27] <stf^rocklinux> how do other large software projects handle this? AFAIK e.g. in Linux subsystem maintainers collect patches, test them and send them upstream...
[16:28] <stf^rocklinux> Xorg seems to give commit access to subsystems and roll up a release every now and then...
[16:30] <blindcoder> well, I've been all for the comit access to subsystems (personal repositories) for a long time
[16:31] <stf^rocklinux> and that's one of the things we agreed on at CLT 2006, afair - it's just not implemented yet :(
[16:38] <stf^rocklinux> bbl
[16:39] Action: stf^rocklinux testing $topic ISO
[16:40] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-032-98.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) left #rocklinux.
[16:48] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-032-98.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #rocklinux.
[16:49] Action: stf^rocklinux running $topic
[16:49] <stf^rocklinux> let's see...
[16:54] <blindcoder> that was fast
[16:57] <stf^rocklinux> yeah, I set it up on another partition :)
[16:59] <blindcoder> I see
[17:03] <stf^rocklinux> damn, looks like my kdelibs patch for cups 1.2 broke kde printing...
[17:04] Action: blindcoder waits for the day that printing will be obsolete on
[17:18] <fake> moin
[17:18] <blindcoder> moin moin
[17:18] <stf^rocklinux> hi fake
[17:19] <fake> is $topic the newest ISO?
[17:19] <fake> it is fairly new, indeed ;)
[17:19] <stf^rocklinux> yes, the newest available for download
[17:19] Action: fake setting up new build machine
[17:20] <fake> i realized i was having everything i need lying around except for a cpu, so i bought one
[17:20] <blindcoder> fake: interested in a bot that announces build progress using the [X] Send mails on events interface?
[17:20] <fake> amd athlon64 3700+
[17:20] <fake> blindcoder: for which builds?
[17:26] <stf^rocklinux> automated test builds come to my mind
[17:28] <blindcoder> fake: anyone that sends his mails to a specific mailaddress
[17:29] <fake> blindcoder: public messages? on request or automatically posted?
[17:29] <blindcoder> fake: automatically posted
[17:29] <fake> but private, right?
[17:30] <blindcoder> either to this channel or to #rocklinux-annonuce as I did earlier with my irssi plugin
[17:30] <fake> hm
[17:30] <fake> for official test builds this would be nice
[17:31] <fake> but for non-official builds i would preffer a jabber output plugin ;)
[17:31] <blindcoder> that would require a simple check of sender mail address
[17:31] <blindcoder> I have never used jabber, so I can't tell
[17:32] <fake> sender mail addresse are not a secure authentication method ;-)
[17:32] <blindcoder> secure enough for this case
[17:32] <fake> though, the idea is nice
[17:32] <blindcoder> if you want, you can pgp sign the mails :P
[17:39] <esden> pgp sign the mails and the bot checks the signature and accepts only emails from certain users ...
[17:39] <esden> that would be somehow cool
[17:42] <blindcoder> esden: that would be totally easy :)
[17:42] <blindcoder> besides, it's what PGP signing is for
[17:42] <blindcoder> sender verification
[17:45] <fake> blindcoder: just accept every key you signed in the 1st instance
[17:45] <fake> blindcoder: that way, only people you know can do bad things (tm)
[17:45] <blindcoder> fake: and so I can go and beat them up :D
[17:45] <fake> unless, of course, you sign keys of people you don't know ;-)
[17:46] <blindcoder> I don't think I've ever signed a single key
[17:46] <fake> that's arkward
[17:46] <blindcoder> why?
[17:46] <fake> why wouldn't you?
[17:47] <blindcoder> just didn't have the "gelegenheit" yet
[17:47] <fake> or did you decide not to trust the web of trust ? ;-))
[17:47] <stf^rocklinux> hmm, how come the symlink /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 is group root, but the file it points to is group disk?
[17:47] <fake> stf^rocklinux: it shouldn't matter
[17:48] <blindcoder> if it's a symlink, it doesn't matter
[17:48] <blindcoder> if it's a device node, it matters
[17:48] <stf^rocklinux> ok, I'll add user to group disk and try ripperx again ;)
[17:49] <fake> stf^rocklinux: that's the intended way.
[17:49] <fake> except if ripperx had hal support
[17:49] <stf^rocklinux> btw. is it a bug or a feature that user has to completely log out before he becomes a member of a new group?
[17:50] <blindcoder> intended behaviour
[17:50] <blindcoder> since it's not the user that's part of a group
[17:50] <blindcoder> but the process, effectively
[17:50] <blindcoder> and only the superuser can change group membership
[17:50] <stf^rocklinux> ic
[17:51] <blindcoder> so in theory, a root shell could change its own group membership on the fly
[17:51] <blindcoder> but a user shell can never
[17:51] <blindcoder> so it's a feature, since Linux (kernel) doesn't really give a fuck about /etc/group :)
[17:52] <stf^rocklinux> ok. maybe add a cdrom group by default?
[17:52] <blindcoder> since udev uses the cdrom group that sounds sensible
[17:55] <fake> www.wingmusic.co.nz
[17:55] <th> < stf^rocklinux> btw. is it a bug or a feature that user has to completely log out before he becomes a member of a new group?
[17:55] <th> you can always use `sg` to become that group
[17:55] <fake> listen to the samples, especially 'dancing queen' and  'back in black'
[17:56] <fake> it's so bad i cant stop laughing
[17:56] <fake> she doesn't really speak english, she just listens to the songs very often and then does a phonetic interpretion ;-)
[17:56] <blindcoder> th: that won't help in X11 sessions
[17:57] <th> oh well. yes it could. if you do it right.
[17:58] <th> if you windowmanager is able to fork to something else... most good once are.
[17:58] <th> then you can fork into xterm.
[17:58] <th> then do sg as you wish
[17:58] <th> and fork back into your manager
[17:58] <blindcoder> I know that icewm can
[17:58] <blindcoder> but I don't think kde does
[18:01] ripclaw (n=ripclaw@p54A74D5F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #rocklinux.
[18:01] <ripclaw> hi
[18:02] <esden> hi rippy!
[18:02] Action: blindcoder blinks
[18:02] <blindcoder> WAAAH
[18:02] <ripclaw> hi esden. long time no c
[18:02] <esden> you are still alive?????
[18:02] <blindcoder> FAKE!!! ESDEN!!! THERE'S A GHOST IN THE CHANNEL!
[18:02] Action: esden shocked!!!
[18:02] <ripclaw> bin mal wieder in FRA
[18:02] Action: blindcoder hides behind esden, opposite to ripclaw 
[18:02] <ripclaw> war zu lang in HH, und ohne inet
[18:02] <th> wow ripclaw
[18:03] <esden> ripclaw: Freie Republik Armenien?
[18:03] <esden> ;)
[18:03] <ripclaw> nee, frankfurt, roedelheim und abraum
[18:03] <ripclaw> oder so
[18:03] <mnemoc> oh
[18:03] <ripclaw> ist eigentlich endlich dieses grottige svn weg ?
[18:03] <th> uh?
[18:03] <esden> o_O?
[18:03] <blindcoder> huh?
[18:03] <ripclaw> sonst muss ihc ja meine kiste langsam mal von rock 1.5 updaten.
[18:04] <blindcoder> muahahaha
[18:04] <blindcoder> yeah, you should probably do that :)
[18:04] <esden> now that is proven ... rippy spent the last time behind the moon *GG*
[18:05] <blindcoder> so there _is_ a man on the moon
[18:05] <esden> blindcoder: it seems so
[18:05] <esden> blindcoder: or better there was one
[18:05] <ripclaw> *gnu ?
[18:05] <esden> now he is here among us
[18:05] <ripclaw> heh, dafuer laeuft die eine e10k schon...
[18:05] <blindcoder> gnu on the moon?
[18:06] Action: esden is releasing moon under GPL ;)
[18:06] <ripclaw> alloc(moon);
[18:06] <ripclaw> jetzt isser mein
[18:06] <esden> :,-(
[18:06] <blindcoder> realloc(earth+moon);
[18:07] <ripclaw> uncompress stars
[18:07] Action: esden realloc(earth+moon+universe);
[18:07] <esden> muahahahaha!
[18:07] <th> schick ihm einer mal ein signal
[18:07] <esden> ping ...
[18:07] <blindcoder> esden: now you're just being silly
[18:07] <ripclaw> kill -9 silly
[18:07] <esden> blindcoder: I always wanted to rule the universe!
[18:07] Action: esden dies
[18:07] <blindcoder> state: D
[18:07] <blindcoder> can't kill
[18:08] <ripclaw> set -o vi
[18:08] <ripclaw> mist falsches fenster
[18:08] <ripclaw> wie gehts denn dem sparc port
[18:09] <blindcoder> idlet wohl vor sich hin
[18:09] <ripclaw> gibts davon noch ne 2.x+ iso ?
[18:10] <ripclaw> hab keine pc mehr
[18:10] <ripclaw> nur noch die eine grotte, und die is bald weg.
[18:10] <blindcoder> ich glaub nicht
[18:10] <blindcoder> zumindest nicht auf iso.rocklinux.de
[18:11] <blindcoder> mangels hardware hat sich da nie wer drum gekuemmert
[18:11] <ripclaw> humpa
[18:11] <esden> humm ... ich hatte hier mal einen build fuer sparc mal rumliegen .. aber das ist ewig her
[18:11] <ripclaw> is doch genug hw rumgedroschen worden.
[18:11] <stf^rocklinux> ich hab mal nen sparc crossbuild gemacht, hatte aber test-möglichkeit...
[18:11] <ripclaw> kannst du mal kramen =?
[18:11] <stf^rocklinux> aber der ARM crossbuild lief ganz ausgezeichnet :)
[18:12] <ripclaw> ich hab aktuell nur nen mac und die sparcs... 
[18:12] <blindcoder> jo, hatte mal ne U20, die hab ich aber rxr gegeben, vor dem krach
[18:12] <ripclaw> krach ?
[18:12] <ripclaw> wasn los gewesen ?
[18:12] <blindcoder> ach, rxr hat ne gabel genommen und is auf und davon
[18:12] <esden> aiaiai ... arm ... da werde ich mir den crossbuild noch ans herz nehmen muessen ... weil crossbuilden ist komplett was anderes als auf realer hardware zum laufen zu bringen ... @ stf^rocklinux 
[18:12] <blindcoder> zusammen mit der haelfte der devs
[18:12] <ripclaw> und was is aus dem fork() geworden ?
[18:13] <blindcoder> ripclaw: das meinte ich mit krach
[18:13] <ripclaw> huebi hat ja aktuell glaub ich garnix mehr mit zu tun
[18:13] <ripclaw> soviel auto wie der schraubt
[18:13] <blindcoder> noe, nich wirklich
[18:13] <blindcoder> hab huebi aufm C3 getroffen, aber sonst hoert und sieht man von ihm hier nichts mehr
[18:14] <ripclaw> und worum gings dabei ?
[18:14] <th> um egos
[18:14] <ripclaw> ja, der macht das nur noch "just for fun".
[18:14] <ripclaw> um egos... klasse.
[18:14] <ripclaw> und hats wenigstens irgendwem was gebracht ?
[18:14] <esden> ripclaw: ist meistens der grund fuer forks wie du bestimmt weisst ... 
[18:14] <blindcoder> ja, clifford engagiert sich fast ausschliesslich in SPL
[18:14] <blindcoder> und rxr hat mit t2 wohl schon etwas kohle verdient
[18:15] <ripclaw> neee, 8 forks hab ich gekauft, weil ich nicht mit den fingern essen wollt
[18:15] <esden> blindcoder: ohh ... das wusste ich nicht
[18:15] <ripclaw> SPL ?
[18:15] <ripclaw> cliff macht nix mehr mit rock ?
[18:15] <blindcoder> clifford.at/spl
[18:15] <blindcoder> doch, ist aber wohl nicht mehr sein hauptaugenmerk
[18:16] <ripclaw> na supi.
[18:17] <ripclaw> und wer macht momentan den head maintainer ?
[18:17] Action: blindcoder zeigt auf th
[18:17] <th> whut? ich?
[18:17] <ripclaw> oh je...
[18:17] <blindcoder> zumindest ist er derjenige, der am meisten patches applied
[18:17] Action: stf^rocklinux auf clifford, th, fake und daja
[18:18] <blindcoder> ripclaw: basically, rock ist kopf- und fuehrungslos
[18:18] <ripclaw> das erklaert auch warum in letzter zeit so ne ruhe da drin ist.
[18:18] <blindcoder> ach...
[18:18] <ripclaw> also, keiner gibt release cycles vor und garnix... na denn supi.
[18:19] <esden> blindcoder: irgendwie erinnert es mich an deine email letztens auf der mailingliste ... ich weiss nicht warum ...
[18:19] <ripclaw> ?
[18:19] Action: esden beschwoert eine rock release aus dem nichts ;)
[18:19] <blindcoder> ripclaw: jo, so geht das ungefaehr seit dem fork
[18:19] <ripclaw> ich hab wegen spam den account nicht mehr
[18:19] <blindcoder> ripclaw: http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20060518.072001.c2d790f9.html
[18:21] <esden> .oO(humm ... Dylan (the programming language) is shweet!)
[18:21] <ripclaw> so am rande - ich hab mail bekommen das rock-sparc auf sf.net geloescht wurde.
[18:21] <ripclaw> desdewegen der aufruhr...
[18:21] <blindcoder> MUAHAHAHA
[18:21] <esden> ripclaw: oha? ... 
[18:21] <stf^rocklinux> ripclaw: was releases angeht, siehe http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Roadmap
[18:21] <ripclaw> ja, project not in use.
[18:21] <esden> aja ... richtig
[18:22] <stf^rocklinux> rock-sparc auf sf.net? wußte gar nicht, daß es so etwas gibt
[18:22] Action: esden reading spl page ... I really do not see the point in this ... ... but I am probably to stupid
[18:22] <ripclaw> gabs seit anfang an. genau rock-alpha und rock-ppc und rock-hurd
[18:22] <ripclaw> frage zur roadmap: warum einen neuen installer ?
[18:23] <ripclaw> wie waers denn vor so grossen eingriffen erstmal mit einem 2.0.x release ?
[18:23] <blindcoder> ripclaw: die idee kam auf
[18:23] <blindcoder> ripclaw: der installer steht deswegen auch im zweiten absatz
[18:23] <th> ripclaw: nimm stable-head das kommt einem release gleich. udev support wird kaum mehr reinwandern.
[18:23] <blindcoder> Work that should be done after the next release.
[18:23] <blindcoder>  Installer. We need a new installer.
[18:24] <ripclaw> und warum released das keiner, wenn stable-head quasi ein release ist ?
[18:24] <ripclaw> nur mal so die frage...
[18:24] <ripclaw> *g
[18:24] <stf^rocklinux> die sachen die im ersten abschnitt stehen sind schon fast erledigt, aber noch nicht getestet...
[18:24] <ripclaw> ok.
[18:24] <th> nur weil es das releasabliste ist, muss es ja nicht releasable sein ;)
[18:25] <ripclaw> finde ein fester release/freeze shedule war schon immer was was bei rock fehlte...
[18:25] <blindcoder> ripclaw: rock bleibt der tradition des "release rarely, release maybe" treu
[18:25] <ripclaw> *applaudiert*
[18:25] <stf^rocklinux> lol
[18:25] <ripclaw> *shoot-foot
[18:26] <esden> ripclaw: wir haben es ja auch immer wieder versucht und manchmal haben wir es dann auch geschafft was eher spaeter als frueher zu releasen ... was auch weniger als mehr stabil war ;)
[18:26] <esden> ripclaw: besser ist es glaube ich nicht geworden
[18:26] <ripclaw> hat ja wenigstens einen vorteil - der tree ist stable genug, damit sich sparc arbeit wieder lohnt
[18:27] <ripclaw> wie gesagt, code freeze (und nur noch fixes) ist hier immer ein fremdwort gewesen...
[18:27] <blindcoder> ripclaw: derjenige, dem zu sagen es sinn machen wuerde, ist leider nicht da
[18:27] <ripclaw> die bsds machen das geschickt, die splitten zu freeze den tree, und packen dann nur noch fixes rein
[18:28] <ripclaw> meinst du aktuell oder generell ?
[18:28] <esden> blindcoder: checkt der clifford eigentlich noch was ein?
[18:28] <blindcoder> aktuell bis generell
[18:28] <blindcoder> derzeit ist clifford jedenfalls nichtmal hier im channel
[18:29] <ripclaw> so wie sich das darstellt ist da zwar cliff vorhanden, aber nicht mehr am fuehren oder so.
[18:29] <blindcoder> esden: letztes mal vor etwa 2,5 wochen
[18:29] <ripclaw> vermutlich weils ihm stinkt.
[18:29] <esden> blindcoder: verstehe
[18:29] <blindcoder> ripclaw: etwa seit dem fork nicht mehr
[18:29] <ripclaw> wenn ich mir die historie anshe
[18:29] <ripclaw> klaro...
[18:29] <ripclaw> rxr ist ja dann quasi mit der dampfwalze ueber cliffs baby und hats zerrissen.
[18:29] <blindcoder> jo
[18:30] <blindcoder> ich kann ja mal zu rxr ruebergehen und ihn verhaun
[18:30] <ripclaw> bringt auch nix.
[18:30] <ripclaw> *wake-up call
[18:30] <blindcoder> hey, der wohnt irgendwie hier in berlin!
[18:30] ripclaw (n=ripclaw@p54A74D5F.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Leaving"
[18:31] <blindcoder> wake-up call bringt nix
[18:31] ripclaw (n=ripclaw@p54A74D5F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #rocklinux.
[18:31] <fake> th: you are aware that 'udevsettle' doesn't work as expected in th-20060522 
[18:31] <ripclaw> klasse... super irc clinet
[18:31] <fake> ripclaw: tach!
[18:31] <th> fake: no. i've no test results yet
[18:31] <ripclaw> tach och
[18:31] <esden> blindcoder: wenn du dich abreagieren musst ... oder einen praktischen einsatz von deinem shinai testen willst ... dann mache das ... aber vielleicht ist zurueckhaltung doch beser
[18:31] <th> fake: but please make sure that you have the correct iso
[18:31] <blindcoder> esden: ich hab morgen n turnier :)
[18:32] <fake> th: i have $TOPIC
[18:32] <ripclaw> blind: du machst kendo ?
[18:32] <esden> blindcoder: ohh dann viel erfolg!
[18:32] <th> fake: cksum please
[18:32] <blindcoder> ripclaw: ja
[18:32] <ripclaw> welcher stil ?
[18:32] <blindcoder> ripclaw: itto
[18:32] <fake> th: i'm on windows
[18:32] <fake> th: md5sum ok?
[18:32] <th> jupp
[18:32] <ripclaw> cool.
[18:32] <ripclaw> bin immer noch stiltechnisch in korea angesiedelt.
[18:33] <fake> 53184d52903bf209afa5f10ff428f626
[18:33] <ripclaw> nu aber mal back on topic. 
[18:33] <blindcoder> ripclaw: heh, sag mir jetzt bitte nicht, dass du morgen in Leipzig bist
[18:33] <ripclaw> blindy: nein. ich bin seit dem unfall vor 3 jahren nicht mehr aktiv
[18:33] <th> fake: ok. thats the correct one.
[18:33] <blindcoder> achso
[18:33] <th> fake: did you find out the details of the issue?
[18:34] <fake> th: not quite. init calls udevtrigger and then udevsettle.
[18:34] <fake> th: i need to insert a sleep 5 there, or else no device will be there at all.
[18:34] <ripclaw> blindcoder: hab ne kaputte (geplatzte) bandscheibe. nix mehr rennen fahren, nix mehr hapkido
[18:34] <th> fake: that should be udevsettle's job
[18:34] <th> hmm
[18:34] <fake> between trigger and settle. which is weird, as settle should wait just the right amount of time
[18:34] <blindcoder> ripclaw: anyway, ich denke clifford braucht einen tritt, aber von mir will er sich nicht ausreichend treten lassen
[18:35] <fake> suuuucks
[18:35] <blindcoder> ripclaw: klingt schmerzhaft *schauder*
[18:35] <ripclaw> blindcoder: hab momentan 50% meiner zeit in lebensunterhalt verdienen, 50% recovery
[18:36] <ripclaw> blindcoder: geht so ab 300 diclophenac 300 kathalodon isses egal.
[18:36] <ripclaw> ich glaub nicht das cliff nen tritt braucht, sondern ne perspektive.
[18:36] <ripclaw> wenn nur noch 4-5 leute committen isses ziehmlich eng.
[18:37] <esden> ripclaw: wir sind nicht gentoo
[18:37] <blindcoder> ja, aber es werden nicht magisch mehr leute
[18:37] <esden> ripclaw: und das gott sei dank!
[18:37] <fake> do we really need more people?
[18:37] <fake> things go really fast since it's not only clifford anymore
[18:37] <ripclaw> nee, aber es werden weniger, wenn die sich wegen irgendwas in die haare kriegen.
[18:38] <fake> export LANG=en_US!
[18:38] <ripclaw> fake: go fast which direction ? so wie ich das versteh gibts keine richtung und kein release
[18:38] <ripclaw> sorry aber sieht so aus.
[18:38] <ripclaw> fuer mich jednefalls
[18:38] <fake> we're headed toward a release
[18:38] <ripclaw> since ?
[18:38] <fake> blindcoder even wrote a roadmap
[18:39] <fake> ripclaw: what's happen in the past is of no importance 
[18:39] <fake> *happened
[18:39] <blindcoder> fake: which simply consisted of a list of submaster patches to be applied...
[18:39] <ripclaw> i know. he showed me. but it is not visible to others outside.
[18:39] <fake> blindcoder: i am testing th's iso right now.
[18:39] <ripclaw> thx thats what i mean -  there is to me no indication of an applied direction
[18:40] <ripclaw> this keeps other people away.
[18:40] <fake> ripclaw: it's in the wiki, so you'd just have to look hard enough ;)
[18:40] <esden> fake: may I have the iso too?
[18:40] <fake> esden: $TOPIC?
[18:40] <ripclaw> fake - i keep staring at it for the better of 5 minutes
[18:40] <esden> fake: this one? 
[18:40] <fake> esden: there is a problem with the initrd though
[18:40] <esden> humm ... ok
[18:40] <ripclaw> when was the last bof ?
[18:41] <fake> damn fscking udev junk
[18:41] <fake> ripclaw: at chemnitzer linuxtag 2006
[18:41] <ripclaw> ok, and where is any kind of info about what happened there on the main page ?
[18:42] <fake> MANIFEST
[18:42] <ripclaw> what i want to say is that development is invisible to the outside.
[18:42] <ripclaw> echo $PWD ?
[18:42] <fake> ripclaw: ok. what do you have in mind to make it better?
[18:42] <ripclaw> put things on rocklinux.org front page to show project is still alive. some kind of info update
[18:43] <fake> very first page "Read our Mission Statement" : http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Mission_Statement
[18:43] <fake> ripclaw: go ahead!
[18:43] <fake> ripclaw: it's a wiki, everyone can edit it.
[18:44] <ripclaw> ? why is it in the middle of nowhere... top news on page top.
[18:44] <fake> i for my part would like to see the big black banner go away
[18:44] <fake> but then again, i don't possess any tast i'm aware of
[18:44] <fake> *taste
[18:44] <ripclaw> second thing would be to offer users a somewhat reliable release shedule, aka half-year, year etc. for stable updates.
[18:45] <ripclaw> fake - me to
[18:45] <fake> We do Source Releases regularly (for Distribution Builders)
[18:45] <fake> that's from the manifest
[18:45] <fake> We try to keep trunk as stable as Source Releases, but can't guarantee it.
[18:45] <blindcoder> fake: well, we haven't done one in 18 months
[18:45] <ripclaw> fake - i have not been using rock in a while. i see no cd-image of current-head.
[18:45] <fake> nobody reads $TOPIC these days.
[18:45] <ripclaw> thats ok, if trunk is not always stable.
[18:46] <ripclaw> fake: it is in #rocklinux not on www.rocklinux.org
[18:46] <ripclaw> where`s the link to the CD on the FRONT PAGE ?
[18:46] <fake> ripclaw: because it's not ment to be released.
[18:46] <ripclaw> then put "please feel free to test this beta" there.
[18:46] <fake> ripclaw: it's a testing release to squash out bugs before the release.
[18:47] <fake> ripclaw: besides, the binary iso is not what we release anymore
[18:47] <ripclaw> no tests - no bugreports - no fixes - no stable
[18:47] <fake> ripclaw: we release tarballs with the build system in it. crystal rock is a mere test case for the functionality of those.
[18:47] <ripclaw> fake: what do you think got us the people in first place ?
[18:47] <fake> -stable is gone for good.
[18:47] <fake> ripclaw: we offered them a distribution buiild kit.
[18:47] <ripclaw> to develop rock, i need a bas system. and if stable is dead, what for is the entire os then ?
[18:48] <fake> ripclaw: at least, thats what i get payed to develop
[18:48] <ripclaw> yes, but we offered it with a system to start from
[18:48] <ripclaw> thats ok - i just suggest that making an iso now and then does not hurt, but gets more userbase.
[18:49] <fake> ripclaw: i agree with you, we should have a lot of things we don't have, and the one thing we're missing most are capable developers who preffer DOing things instead of talking about them.
[18:49] <fake> We do Crystal ROCK Binary Releases if we see fit
[18:49] <fake> from the manifest, too.
[18:49] <ripclaw> if i have to start at a very old release and update+compile the holy glibc out of it to get something usable, its wasted time.
[18:49] <fake> no you don't
[18:50] <fake> just wait for the next test iso or get an older one at
[18:50] <fake> iso.rocklinux.de
[18:50] <fake> ftp://iso.rocklinux.de/official/test-releases/20060326-crystal.iso
[18:50] <blindcoder> fake: but it's also necessary to announce test isos somewhere else than the IRC $TOPIC
[18:50] <fake> that one's really nice
[18:50] <ripclaw> fake: i did leave because i was tired of having to make updates all the time to my development platform, and because stuff like the move to svn broke it for me.
[18:51] <ripclaw> i`ll get that iso and install. no problem. 
[18:51] <fake> blindcoder: i agree, do it!
[18:51] <ripclaw> thnx blindcoder
[18:51] <ripclaw> whoever makes an testiso pls use wiki to announce !
[18:51] <blindcoder> fake: am I in a position to mark something as something announcable? I don't think so.
[18:51] <blindcoder> fake: if you dump a mail to the lists saying "here's something. eat or die"
[18:51] <fake> blindcoder: just fricki'n do already! 
[18:52] <fake> +it
[18:52] <blindcoder> fake: then I'll be happy to flood anyfthing from freshmeat to symlink with the announcemnets
[18:52] <stf^rocklinux> blincoder: please do it, just state clearly that it's a test build :)
[18:52] <fake> blindcoder: not $TOPIC
[18:52] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: I will, but I'm not a core-dev
[18:52] <fake> it has severe installation troubles. it won't boot!
[18:52] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: I'm just a patch submitter
[18:52] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: I'm in no position to mark something as anything
[18:52] <ripclaw> freshmeat + front page + mailinglist will do for announcements.
[18:53] <blindcoder> ripclaw: for test announcements, yes
[18:53] <fake> not every test iso should be announced that way. that would be stupid.
[18:53] <ripclaw> blindcoder: since there is only a handful active, that makes you core...
[18:53] <blindcoder> ripclaw: for real releases I might be able to flood half a dozen important sites
[18:53] <fake> only test isos that passed a basic check should be let out 
[18:53] <ripclaw> check definition is where ?
[18:53] <blindcoder> ripclaw: wow, now I really feel special :)
[18:54] <ripclaw> include "checks.h" ?
[18:54] <fake> check definition is th, clifford or me say it's alright
[18:54] <stf^rocklinux> at least in the wiki, we could list every single test-release...
[18:54] <ripclaw> whats the criteria ?
[18:54] <fake> stf^rocklinux: sure
[18:54] <ripclaw> thnx.
[18:54] <fake> stf^rocklinux: i'm just talking about freshmeat and the mailinglist
[18:54] <stf^rocklinux> fake: ok
[18:54] <blindcoder> anyway, since fake, th and clifford are the "apply monkeys" I would like to have a mail of them to link to as an "authority" to refer to
[18:54] <fake> stf^rocklinux: i consider the wiki an 'internal' information exchange, too, to some extent.
[18:55] <fake> blindcoder: why?
[18:55] <fake> blindcoder: more workload...
[18:55] <blindcoder> fake: you won't break down under a one-liner to rock-devel
[18:55] <fake> okay, just tell me that again when i tell you to announce a build
[18:56] <ripclaw> in worst case include "mail -s "$release" into the make script
[18:56] <blindcoder> fake: besides, just dumping an iso onto a server doesn't "feel" right
[18:56] <blindcoder> fake: okay, will do
[18:56] <blindcoder> ripclaw: that'd be totally with me
[18:56] <fake> and NOW... i'm gonna find out why udevsettle doesn't do what it should, so we can get this thing flying. excuse me...
[18:56] <ripclaw> would be glad to see rock continue for another - whatsit now ? ten ? years ?
[18:57] <blindcoder> fake: good luck!
[18:57] <ripclaw> fake: from me too
[18:57] <blindcoder> ripclaw: yeah, a bit over ten years
[18:57] <blindcoder> ripclaw: at least that's what it has been at CLT
[18:57] <ripclaw> i know...
[18:58] <ripclaw> which mailinglist is best to subscribe for development right now ? (im not going to read more than one probably)
[18:58] <blindcoder> rock-devel
[18:58] <esden> ohh ... ripclaw ... show yourself somewhere ... like CCC or LT or so ... there are two beers waiting for you *GG*
[18:58] <ripclaw> k.
[18:58] <ripclaw> *g*
[18:58] <blindcoder> or rock-sm if you want to see patches
[18:58] <ripclaw> what for 2 beer ?
[18:59] <ripclaw> rock-sm ?
[18:59] <blindcoder> ripclaw: for getting steam into these people here :)
[18:59] <blindcoder> ripclaw: rock-_s_ub_m_aster
[18:59] <blindcoder> it's the list all the submaster information mails go to
[18:59] <esden> ripclaw: yes .. one from blindcoder ... and one from me ;)
[18:59] <ripclaw> *G* i think this still is my job as pr-slave *G*
[18:59] <blindcoder> patch additions, comments, votes
[18:59] Action: ripclaw no longer considers himself ex-pr-slave
[19:00] Action: esden goes searching some nuts in the kitchen
[19:00] <ripclaw> wheres some docs on that frigging new cvs thing
[19:00] <blindcoder> ripclaw: svn?
[19:00] <ripclaw> esden: all your nuts are belong to us
[19:00] <ripclaw> yes svn thingie
[19:00] <blindcoder> ripclaw: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/
[19:01] <esden> re
[19:01] <ripclaw> ok. this should be a link directly next to the info about svn on the page.
[19:01] <ripclaw> i do not have access to wiki. sorry
[19:01] <ripclaw> re hi esden
[19:01] <blindcoder> ripclaw: you need to register an account. too much spam :(
[19:02] <ripclaw> register account with ?
[19:02] <stf^rocklinux> bbs
[19:02] <blindcoder> ripclaw: you were talking about the ROCK wiki, no?
[19:02] <ripclaw> yes.
[19:02] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-032-98.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[19:02] <ripclaw> or whatever typo3 replacement *G
[19:02] <blindcoder> ripclaw: look in the upper right corner, there should be a link "Register"
[19:02] <ripclaw> ok.
[19:03] <blindcoder> it's a wikipedia type of wiki
[19:04] <esden> .oO(a blog on the frontpage of rocklinux.org would be nice)
[19:04] <blindcoder> brb, packing stuff for tomorrow
[19:04] <blindcoder> esden: blog... planet, rather
[19:04] <blindcoder> collecting rock related articles
[19:05] stf^rocklinux (n=user@heim-032-98.raab-heim.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #rocklinux.
[19:05] <esden> re stf^rocklinux 
[19:05] <ripclaw> ok. dont understand how to put a documentation box next to the links section
[19:05] <ripclaw> re
[19:06] <ripclaw> what about rock-name blogs on the myblog.de or something ? i don`t see a reason to put a blog on rockserver
[19:07] <ripclaw> i think i`ll put together some kind of "ideas" list and mail that to dev mailinglist.
[19:07] <blindcoder> I have my blog already
[19:07] <ripclaw> while that iso downloads
[19:08] <blindcoder> and I can export rss feeds on a per tag basis
[19:08] <ripclaw> again :D wheres the link *
[19:08] <blindcoder> so I could export all rock related posts to a planet easily
[19:08] <ripclaw> sure..
[19:08] <blindcoder> http://blog.crash-override.net/
[19:08] <blindcoder> yes, I still have that domain name :P
[19:08] <ripclaw> ok. time to clean up. wheres the broom.   *G* nice domain.
[19:09] <stf^rocklinux> th: cups 1.2 doesn't seem to work with kde 3.5.2...
[19:09] <th> but i thought that patch would fix it
[19:10] <ripclaw> what parameters (environment) does it break in ?
[19:10] <stf^rocklinux> th: apparently it doesn't... the kde printer manager can't connect to the CUPS server, although it is running
[19:10] <th> strange
[19:11] <esden> humm ... right a aggregated blog of all rock developers
[19:11] <ripclaw> how to intercept traffic between both ?
[19:11] <esden> but sadly fake stopped posting in his blog ... 
[19:12] <stf^rocklinux> th: I think we should skip those patches for now. Maybe kdelibs needs other cups related fixes, too.
[19:12] <ripclaw> if its just CHANGELOG.rss its ok to show we are alive
[19:12] <blindcoder> ripclaw: there are rss feeds of svn commits and submaster stuff
[19:13] Action: ripclaw must be blind or confused by site
[19:13] <blindcoder> maybe the links got lost in the typo3->wiki transition
[19:14] <blindcoder> http://scavenger.homeip.net/ROCK/rss_submaster
[19:14] <ripclaw> why did typo go anyway?
[19:14] <esden> ohh .. damn .. fake restarted posting ... damn ssl!!!!
[19:14] <ripclaw> ?
[19:14] <blindcoder> because I started a documentation wiki which went quite well :)
[19:15] <blindcoder> ripclaw: see http://doc.rocklinux.org/
[19:16] <esden> ripclaw: because typo sucks ass like a teeny on xtc!
[19:16] Action: blindcoder now busy assembling his shinai
[19:16] <ripclaw> yeah, ppl writing documentation !!!
[19:17] <ripclaw> esden: to be honest, i never tried a teeny on xtc
[19:17] <ripclaw> *G
[19:17] <esden> blindcoder: have you added the localization problem solution to the wiki?
[19:17] <esden> ripclaw: lol :)
[19:18] <esden> ripclaw: then you do not know what you missed ;)
[19:18] <ripclaw> it says building rock is supported on non-rock... maybe i should try that on a RHES 2.1 *G
[19:18] <blindcoder> esden: no
[19:18] <esden> ripclaw: I was able to build rock on debian current unstable
[19:18] <ripclaw> esden - probably not...
[19:19] <esden> humm .. do we still have a channel logger?
[19:19] <ripclaw> *Y*
[19:19] <blindcoder> yes
[19:19] <ripclaw> i think so
[19:20] <esden> urgh ... damn ... *sigh*
[19:20] Action: esden dying
[19:20] <ripclaw> i think its ok if that few lines get removed for sake of PG13
[19:20] <ripclaw> thats why i never make explicit statements in electroni form
[19:20] <esden> ripclaw: that is why data retention is bad ;)
[19:21] <ripclaw> all i have to say: tapedrive *FG*
[19:21] <ripclaw> btw - got a L20 lib today..
[19:21] <blindcoder> sweet
[19:21] <blindcoder> got to play with one at work recently
[19:21] <ripclaw> reminds me i have to carry it inside before sundown... or i need new car windwos
[19:21] <blindcoder> with solaris 8 only, though :(
[19:22] <blindcoder> yeah, probably ):
[19:22] <ripclaw> my taper has sol9 and some proprietary backup stuff there
[19:22] <ripclaw> ok, afk while fetching tapelib
[19:22] Nick change: ripclaw -> ripclaw_afk_tape
[19:22] <esden> hf
[19:22] <ripclaw_afk_tape> thx
[19:25] <blindcoder> okay, first shinai is assembled and weighs in at exactly 510 g
[19:27] <esden> blindcoder: is it ok?
[19:28] <ripclaw_afk_tape> 510g looks ok to me
[19:28] <blindcoder> it's freshly oiled, so it's a bit slippery, but... shiny ^^
[19:28] Action: ripclaw_afk_tape prefer bokken
[19:28] <blindcoder> heh, my bokken weigh 748 g
[19:29] <ripclaw_afk_tape> my bokken weight between 500g for the redwood up to 1200g for the oak one.
[19:29] <esden> ohh ... that is why i did not realize any incoming mail ... my mail client was closed all day ... >_<
[19:29] <blindcoder> sweet
[19:29] <blindcoder> the ones at the dojo weigh only 300 g
[19:29] <ripclaw_afk_tape> out for the tapelib... NOW *G
[19:30] <blindcoder> I can't really do the Kata with those
[19:30] <ripclaw_afk_tape> thats light.
[19:30] <ripclaw_afk_tape> too light
[19:30] <ripclaw_afk_tape> brb
[19:33] <esden> damn blog comment spam ... I think I should start a campaign ... "spam(er)killer" :)
[19:33] <blindcoder> heh
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: I don't get any through anymore
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: I use the chon(gq|qg)ed.org blacklist
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: then a few manual blocked words
[19:34] Nick change: ripclaw_afk_tape -> ripclaw
[19:34] <ripclaw> fsck that thing is heavy.
[19:34] <ripclaw> painkillers
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: then <a.*<a.*<a.*<a.*<a
[19:34] <esden> blindcoder: I get nearly to no spam now ... I use Akismet system
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: and finally an empty referer 
[19:34] <blindcoder> esden: for blocking messages
[19:35] <blindcoder> with over 1000 spam attempts a month
[19:35] <esden> it works vewy well .. but sometimes .. once a week one or two get through
[19:35] <blindcoder> I have yet to see a spam go through :)
[19:35] <esden> blindcoder: urgh .. your blog is more viewed then mine ;)
[19:35] <blindcoder> no, just more spammed
[19:35] <esden> blindcoder: lol
[19:35] <ripclaw> just put more explicit content in there, like details on the teen and xtc *G
[19:36] <esden> lol
[19:36] <ripclaw> *slaps his hand
[19:36] <blindcoder> hehehe
[19:36] <esden> ripclaw: 4chan.org would be enough ;)
[19:36] <blindcoder> what about "no explicit content", ripclaw?
[19:36] <blindcoder> urgh
[19:36] Action: blindcoder has bad memories about 4chan
[19:37] <blindcoder> mostly induced by #nethack-offtopic 
[19:37] <esden> blindcoder: why?
[19:37] <ripclaw> how about explicitly putting no explicit content there.
[19:37] <esden> blindcoder: rofl ... 4chan rulez!
[19:37] <ripclaw> #nethack-offtopic ?
[19:37] <blindcoder> esden: #nethack-offtopic is a bunch of perverted nethackers
[19:37] <ripclaw> i sometimes stick to middian.net`s chaos channel
[19:37] <esden> blindcoder: I know I was also there for some time ;)
[19:37] <ripclaw> uargs...
[19:38] <ripclaw> #chaos is just that... with bots to kickban on explicity
[19:38] <ripclaw> !list
[19:38] <ripclaw> hmmm... suspicious botnik
[19:38] <ripclaw> painkillers... never work when needes.
[19:39] <blindcoder> okay, second shinai assembled
[19:39] <esden> blindcoder: you mean things like this: http://tmp.4chan.org/d/src/1148664745599.jpg 
[19:39] <blindcoder> weighs in at 506 g
[19:39] <blindcoder> but with a higher balance point
[19:39] <blindcoder> esden: no, more subtle stuff
[19:39] <blindcoder> /w/ mostly
[19:40] <ripclaw> blindcoder: use gardinengewichte in the grip to balance
[19:40] <esden> blindcoder: hehe ... ok ;)
[19:40] <blindcoder> ripclaw: yeah could do that. but I prefer the first shinai, anyway. the second is backup in case 'shit happens'
[19:40] <ripclaw> yikes..
[19:41] <ripclaw> blindcoder: musashi - never develop a preference for one particular weapon. be at ease with all of them.
[19:41] <blindcoder> hell, I'm not even sure if I get through shinai control with the second one
[19:41] <ripclaw> you cannot determine which you will have to use
[19:41] <ripclaw> why?
[19:41] <blindcoder> I seem to be unable to get a good binding of the nakayui done on it
[19:42] <ripclaw> try redoing the binding.
[19:42] <ripclaw> whats nakayui in non-jap ?
[19:42] <ripclaw> disc ?
[19:42] <blindcoder> the binding roughly 30cm below the tip of the sword
[19:43] <ripclaw> you mean the "sail-line" to the disc ? 
[19:44] <blindcoder> sail-line?
[19:45] <blindcoder> wait, let me get a pic
[19:45] <blindcoder> http://www.jungbluth.de/koelnkendo/kendo_ausruestung_nakayui_05.gif
[19:45] <blindcoder> that one
[19:45] <blindcoder> http://www.tranzleit.com/kendo/images/shinai26.jpg
[19:46] <ripclaw> don`t see the technical idea behind it. if the binding does not grip to the sticks, try schmirgelpapier
[19:47] <blindcoder> hmm
[19:47] <blindcoder> worth a try
[19:47] Action: blindcoder puts schmirgelpapier into his bag of stuff to take with him tomorrow
[19:47] <ripclaw> dirty tricks *G
[19:48] <blindcoder> hah, no trick is dirty unless discovered
[19:49] <ripclaw> der is legal... *g
[19:51] <blindcoder> stimmt auch wieder
[19:51] <blindcoder> aber als vereinsvorstand sollte man das glaub ich nicht an die grosse glocke haengen :)
[19:51] <ripclaw> genauso wie lackieren wg grip etc.
[19:51] <ripclaw> nee..
[19:54] <blindcoder> wie auch immer, ich geh jetzt packen und dann ins bett
[19:54] <blindcoder> muss frueh raus
[19:54] <blindcoder> ripclaw: hoff du bist jetzt wieder oefters da
[19:54] <blindcoder> ripclaw: du motivierst :)
[19:55] <ripclaw> ich probiers, kann aber z.b. aush hamburg nicht in irc.
[19:55] <ripclaw> wenns hilft gern !"
[19:55] <ripclaw> is ja auch mein job im beruf...
[19:55] <blindcoder> gutgut :)
[19:55] <blindcoder> ruf an, wenn du mal in Berlin bist
[19:55] <blindcoder> is ja nich sooo weit von hamburg
[19:56] <ripclaw> das hab ich steffen auch schon versprochen, aber unter der woche krieg ich nicht viel ueber zombie-niveau gebacken.
[19:56] <ripclaw> montags um 4 mit dem zug hin, dienstags putt, mittwoch nacharbeiten, donnerstag vorarbeiten, freitag abend heim
[19:56] <blindcoder> dann solltest du wohl von berlin wegbleiben. hier hats noch echte zombiejaeger :)
[19:56] <ripclaw> samstag waschen, sonntag *pause*
[19:57] <ripclaw> ich will schon seit januar steffen in golm besuchen
[19:57] <blindcoder> heh, warum nich einfach nach hamburg ziehen?
[19:57] <ripclaw> da geh ich ein... sch.. wetter... ausserdem isses nur ein projekt bis august. also backen zu und durch
[19:58] <blindcoder> okay, bis august ist nicht mehr lang hin
[19:59] <blindcoder> da ist auch meine letzte rate fuer die karre faellig :D
[19:59] <blindcoder> endlich _mein_ auto :D
[19:59] <ripclaw> dann ist erstmal motoren umbauen faellig, der bloede 2l turbo liegt schon seit dezember rum.
[20:00] <blindcoder> heh
[20:00] <blindcoder> na da liegt er gut
[20:00] <esden> ahh iso da ...
[20:00] <ripclaw> sollte schon lang drin sein. aber wg. ruecken drueck ich mich immer.
[20:00] Action: esden schmeisst paralells an
[20:01] <blindcoder> ja, klar
[20:01] <blindcoder> so, ich bin fuer heute weg
[20:01] <blindcoder> noch packen und so
[20:01] <blindcoder> und morgen 5 uhr raus
[20:01] <esden> cu blindcoder ... viel erfolg morgen
[20:01] <blindcoder> bis sonntag dann
[20:02] <ripclaw> cu blind, und viel erfolg.
[20:02] <blindcoder> danke
[20:09] <stf^rocklinux> th: please have a look at my latest journal. It's like yours, but with linux-2.6.16.18 and without cups 1.2
[20:10] <ripclaw> 30% iso download
[20:10] <stf^rocklinux> th: I'll see if kde printing works with it
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[20:54] <stf^rocklinux> I'll be off for the weekend, cy
[20:56] <ripclaw> cya stf
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[00:00] --- Sat May 27 2006