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[01:53] <elon> salue.. is blindcoder in ?
[01:55] <elon> Looks like i'm off business hours again :)
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[08:20] <daaku> esden_: hi, (if you're not busy, as this is not important) - how difficult is it to compile vim statically linked with dietlibc? [i came across some irc logs from this channel :) ]
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[10:05] <blindcoder> moin
[10:36] <stf^rocklinux> moin moin
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[11:11] <esdentem> moin
[11:18] <daja77_> hi esden
[11:32] Nick change: esden_ -> esden
[11:34] <blindcoder> le
[11:34] <blindcoder> re
[11:35] <esden> huhu blindcoder 
[11:35] Action: esden implementing a network protocol the 4 time ... I start to get bored with this kind of task
[11:36] <blindcoder> why do you do it then?
[11:36] <esden> blindcoder: you may guess ...
[11:38] <blindcoder> esden: because you are incompetent and never manage to code according to the specs? :)
[11:38] <esden> blindcoder: specs? which specs?
[11:38] <esden> I think I said it the wrong way
[11:39] <blindcoder> esden: well, you should have a remote idea what kind of network protocol you impleent?
[11:39] <esden> I implement the 4 protocol ... I can not reuse the old ones
[11:40] <blindcoder> the 4 protocol? what kind of protocol is that?
[11:40] <esden> the protocol I used the last time needs an interrupt to handle ... and I do not have interrupts this time
[11:41] <esden> nothing spectacular ... transfer some data over the serial line
[11:41] <esden> but be sure that everything is there
[11:41] <esden> and know where the packet begins and the packet ends
[11:42] <blindcoder> I see
[11:43] <esden> in the packet there is only some encripted and signed datathat I have to flash
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[16:11] <ripclaw> hi
[16:12] <stf^rocklinux> hiho
[16:22] <blindcoder> moin
[16:28] <ripclaw> moin
[16:28] <ripclaw> qemu ist nervig krieg den bbs da nicht hoch
[16:37] <stf^rocklinux> was ist denn das problem?
[16:38] <stf^rocklinux> qemu -cdrom <cd-image> -hda <hd-image> -boot d
[16:38] <stf^rocklinux> ?
[16:40] <stf^rocklinux> ripclaw?
[17:02] <stf^rocklinux> ...
[17:04] <ripclaw> yo
[17:04] <ripclaw> i`ll try that out
[17:04] <ripclaw> sec
[17:08] <ripclaw> doesnt do anything.
[17:11] <stf^rocklinux> ripclaw: not even a single line of output on console?
[17:12] <ripclaw> no, exit without output in cmd
[17:13] <stf^rocklinux> do you have X running?
[17:13] <stf^rocklinux> which qemu version is it?
[17:13] <ripclaw> quemu 7.1 for win
[17:13] <ripclaw> crappy platform...
[17:13] <stf^rocklinux> current version is 8.1 
[17:14] <ripclaw> www.qemu.org says newest windoof is 7.x
[17:14] <ripclaw> i have cygwin x running, but it doesnt show
[17:14] <stf^rocklinux> hm, I've never tried it on windows ...
[17:14] <ripclaw> me too... and "i want out" to quote megadeth
[17:15] <stf^rocklinux> I think you'd better look in the qemu forums for help :S
[17:16] <stf^rocklinux> or IRC channel, if there is any
[17:16] <ripclaw> i think i`ld better take my soekris with me to hamburg next time :D
[17:16] <stf^rocklinux> on Linux, qemu works like a charm with all the ROCK ISOs I've tried
[17:16] <ripclaw> no boring windoof on there...
[17:17] <stf^rocklinux> (well, except a little bug with X -configure)
[17:18] <stf^rocklinux> haven't booted Windoze here for some time ^^
[17:19] <ripclaw> i wouldnt touch win with a ten foot pole if i hadnt to. making xxx three crosses when im done using this crap... tunix ohne unix
[17:20] <stf^rocklinux> I use it mainly for games...
[17:20] <ripclaw> yeah, right... using the fraggin batch script i found it works...
[17:20] <ripclaw> i have a ps2 for games.
[17:20] <ripclaw> only pc game i use is oolite
[17:22] <stf^rocklinux> batch scripts for win are fun ... In a masochistic way ^^
[17:23] <ripclaw> i hate everything about this crappy os, its so crap i would rather use DOS+win311 instead of anything win. even reactos sucks mooseballs through a straw
[17:24] <ripclaw> i really will enjoy when beos is back to useable
[17:25] <stf^rocklinux> that's only because you use win on a daily basis. When you don't use it, it's not that bad :D
[17:25] <ripclaw> it wasnt that bad when i hadnt used it for most of 7 years.
[17:25] <ripclaw> mainly because i didnt have to use the crappy os after 1998 anymore...
[17:26] <ripclaw> i dearly wish its inventors would have to use it in an infiniloop in hell.
[17:26] <ripclaw> just so they realize what they have done
[17:27] <stf^rocklinux> I still wonder if Bill uses it, or uses computers at all...
[17:28] <ripclaw> i hope so... i hope he has to eat his own bakery
[17:29] <ripclaw> rock is now installing.
[17:30] <stf^rocklinux> nice :)
[17:30] <ripclaw> somehow i need to escape the crap for sanity
[17:31] <ripclaw> next create another image file for rock-src :)
[17:32] <stf^rocklinux> you mean a tarball for rock-src?
[17:32] <ripclaw> no - a disk image where to download and compile :D
[17:33] <ripclaw> so if i "grill" my primary qemu disk image i still keep the sourcetree..
[17:34] <ripclaw> scp sourcedisk.img homebase:/tmp ; ssh homebase dd if=/tmp/sourcedisk.img of=/dev/blah
[17:34] <ripclaw> :D
[17:34] <ripclaw> and after weekend, just re-trans to laptop
[17:36] <stf^rocklinux> hm, IIRC qemu images and real hd images don't have the same format...
[17:36] <ripclaw> gnuhahahahaha
[17:36] <ripclaw> in that case nfs comes to rescue
[17:36] <ripclaw> i can still mount nfs and dd from qemu
[17:37] <ripclaw> or tar cf - | ssh homebase ; tar xf - or such...
[17:38] <ripclaw> at least its 100mbit and switched, and workstation is faster
[17:38] <ripclaw> but lacking dsl at home at the moment
[17:40] <ripclaw> if all else fails - i`ld install qemu for linux on my old devel-box :)
[17:41] <stf^rocklinux> :)
[17:43] <ripclaw> novell just nixed its ceo
[17:43] <ripclaw> :D
[17:46] <ripclaw> at linux now :)
[17:50] <ripclaw> qemu speed is an oxymoron appearantly
[17:50] <ripclaw> linux-src
[17:50] <stf^rocklinux> linux-src is also 250 MB large...
[17:51] <stf^rocklinux> it's the biggest package (uncompressed)
[17:51] <ripclaw> hm.... i hope in that case bbs 2.0.3 fits in the 1.5gb disk i created...
[17:52] <stf^rocklinux> sure, Crystal takes appr. 1,8 GB.
[17:52] <stf^rocklinux> btw. the installer should warn you if the packages don't fit on the HD.
[17:52] <ripclaw> hm.... one big one
[17:52] <ripclaw> didnt do yet
[17:53] <stf^rocklinux> It does before installing anything.
[18:01] <ripclaw> in that case i am on hte safe side
[18:17] <ripclaw> one question - why is it called build-boot-strap when svn doesnt come with it ?
[18:19] <stf^rocklinux> bbs is not a target, but a package preselection template (usually for the generic target, see also the wiki).
[18:19] <ripclaw> i know, but when i want to build stuff, why isnt the tool to aquire source with in the selection ?
[18:20] <ripclaw> it doesn not make ANY sense to compile anything non-CVS anymore, since 2.0.3 is very out of date, and the last release was when ?
[18:20] <ripclaw> i think this is a bug :)
[18:21] <ripclaw> subversion needs to be in whatever is thought as a compile base, anything else will p*ss off possible users.
[18:22] <stf^rocklinux> ah, I got your question wrong... I consider a missing subversion package in bbs a bjg 
[18:22] <stf^rocklinux> a bug as well.
[18:23] <ripclaw> who is the owner of bbs ?
[18:24] <stf^rocklinux> th introduced it in trunk afaik. but from what I see in misc/pkgsel/bbs.in it does include subversion.
[18:24] <ripclaw> hmmm... since when ? the most current bbs cd was 2.0.3
[18:24] <stf^rocklinux> as all misc/ files it is maintained by the core developers.
[18:24] <ripclaw> on the website. that is
[18:25] <stf^rocklinux> yeah, the website is out of date in some places ...
[18:25] <ripclaw> about time we get a usable built out the door and on the website
[18:25] <stf^rocklinux> but there's a bbs for every crystal ISO afaik.
[18:26] <ripclaw> that means if i reinstall with the most current image, i get a useful install ?
[18:26] <stf^rocklinux> I think so. I've only tested crystal ISOs, though...
[18:26] <ripclaw> why in hell is then still the old bbs image up there... 
[18:27] <stf^rocklinux> hey, I recently discovered a mirror of ROCK 1.3.x downloads on the net :D
[18:28] <ripclaw> oh, cool !!! i still have 1.2 on a disk somewhere
[18:29] <stf^rocklinux> only downloads of package source tarballs though, no ROCK sources.
[18:29] <ripclaw> i have full cd and sources on tape :D
[18:29] <ripclaw> at least in current the stone menus seem more sane !
[18:30] <stf^rocklinux> for my needs stone works quite well. After packages are installed it usually takes me about 5 minutes to set up a fully working system.
[18:31] <stf^rocklinux> (which is a desktop/multimedia system, in my case)
[18:32] <ripclaw> i seen... the old packaging was easier to remove stuff, i just hat to kill  the gui again to get back from "i selected full but dont want it"
[18:32] <ripclaw> it only knows full or minimal in stone. i thing i go back to oldstyle
[18:33] <ripclaw> sorry, was using stone-gasgui
[18:33] <stf^rocklinux> you can easily e.g. deselect all dev packages...
[18:33] <stf^rocklinux> but some more choices than full or minimal would be nice.
[18:34] <ripclaw> where`s the old menudriven one, btw ?
[18:34] <ripclaw> yes, definitively
[18:34] <stf^rocklinux> hm? stone-gasgui is menu-driven.
[18:34] <ripclaw> no, the rock 1.6 shell menu :D 
[18:34] <ripclaw> select */*
[18:34] <ripclaw> you remember ?
[18:35] <stf^rocklinux> no, I never tried anything before 2.1...
[18:35] <ripclaw> oh my... you could run "installcommands" like in a shell...
[18:36] <ripclaw> sel dev/* ; sel net/* ; inst
[18:36] <ripclaw> stuff like that
[18:37] <stf^rocklinux> stone-gasgui offers to select/deselect packages by category
[18:38] <ripclaw> yes, but very rudimentarily, compared to beeing able to select single packages.
[18:39] <ripclaw> for now, i am not pleased with the install :D
[18:40] <stf^rocklinux> you can select single packages as well
[18:41] <ripclaw> yes, i discovered it is unintuitive to a minimal degree...
[18:41] <ripclaw> and - it has cyrus and CVS in minimal, but no SVN... i think there should be a discussion about package selection for minimal !!!!
[18:42] <stf^rocklinux> yeah, there's also some packages important to udev missing, iirc...
[18:43] <ripclaw> and useless crap like a gui-cdrom burning tool in base-minimal !!!! wow !
[18:43] <ripclaw> and 2 different versions of gnupg
[18:43] <ripclaw> i also cannot see a reason to have kde (!) in minimal
[18:43] <ripclaw> wheres minimal about tat ?
[18:44] <ripclaw> oh, sorry, that was kdb
[18:46] <ripclaw> which subversion pakages are needed ?
[18:48] <stf^rocklinux> depends on what you want to do. 
[18:50] <ripclaw> submit patches... just be a "normal" developer.
[18:50] <stf^rocklinux> I don't know exactly, because I usually install all packages...
[18:50] <stf^rocklinux> but I guess then you need only subversion (and no :dev or :doc)
[18:51] <ripclaw> i think i have a chicken to roast with someone then :->
[18:51] <stf^rocklinux> well, patches are welcome :)
[18:52] <ripclaw> as are patches to sparc-stuff in rock :)
[18:53] <stf^rocklinux> cross-build bootdisk for sparc seems to work, but I haven't been able to test it yet. ARM cross-builds are known to work, however :)
[18:54] <stf^rocklinux> (tested with QEMU)
[18:54] <ripclaw> i have a huge lot of sparc hardware, if someone has a disk, i`ll install.
[18:54] <ripclaw> otherwise i`ll take a few weeks to try
[18:55] <ripclaw> when`s next release btw :)   (i know the question hurts)
[18:55] <ripclaw> CCC is around the corner, which is one of our usual release dates, iirc
[18:55] <stf^rocklinux> there are no sparc ISOs for sparc afaik. But you'd be my hero of the day if you created one :)
[18:56] <ripclaw> is there packages or a list of failed build components for sparc ?
[18:56] <ripclaw> i usually take a bit longer since i`m working 60h week but its not impossible
[18:57] <stf^rocklinux> ask th, fake or clifford for a release date. We have been working on stabilizing trunk since march and we could release within a few days imo.
[18:58] <stf^rocklinux> no build logs for sparc afaik...
[18:59] <ripclaw> i do think that there is still some stuff to fix in there... i`ll call cliff later on
[19:01] <stf^rocklinux> yep, since it hasn't been tested for some time. esp. the boot loader might need some fixes. everything else should be/have been fixed by the respective package authors.
[19:02] <ripclaw> fixed for what ? 32bit intelendianess ?  ;)
[19:03] <stf^rocklinux> multi-arch support
[19:03] <ripclaw> i remember a lot of problems where due to glibc`s borkenness in 64bit useful-endianess :D
[19:03] <ripclaw> i`ll have to see... its going to be "interesting"
[19:23] <ripclaw> ok, installing minimal is  now at x
[19:39] <ripclaw> ok, packing up, i`m currently giving the latest image a try and will see to get a compile-disk attached ... seems like some daily cron awk stuff fails... in that release
[19:41] <ripclaw> cu 
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[20:17] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: pling
[20:33] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: plong
[20:33] <stf^rocklinux> hi
[20:33] <stf^rocklinux> I'm just writing a response to your proposal of a new mission statement
[20:33] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: ah, great
[20:34] <stf^rocklinux> As it's growing quite big, I just thought it might be best to mail it to you before I mail it to rock-devel...
[20:35] <stf^rocklinux> Before, I thought of talking about it with you on IRC, but that's a bit cumbersome, as it takes me quite some time to think it through...
[20:36] <stf^rocklinux> e.g. regarding rules (esp. for basic packages and third party software):
[20:36] <stf^rocklinux> The problem I have with Rules & ROCK in general is the following:
[20:36] <stf^rocklinux> what do we do if someone doesn't follow the rules? Slap th with a large trout? Blame clifford? Rules need enforcement, something I try to avoid in ROCK Linux, if possible... I prefer to have all decisions made based on consent, or at least compromise.
[20:36] <stf^rocklinux> Another problem is contradiction: the more rules we add, the more likely it is that they contradict each other. If this is taken to the extreme, noone will be allowed to do anything without breaking The Rules... :( I prefer to set some guidelines that help people (developers) make the right decisions, but give them enough freedom to choose from several possible alternatives.
[20:38] <blindcoder> well, it's not like it makes any sense to blame clifford with anything
[20:38] <blindcoder> and we need some rules or else there'll just be anarchy
[20:39] <stf^rocklinux> what I try to avoid is to have too many rules.
[20:40] <stf^rocklinux> and: rules need enforcement. If we add some rules, we also have to add some kind of "punishment", something I don't want to have in ROCK :(
[20:40] <blindcoder> define too many
[20:40] <blindcoder> rules can be changed anyway
[20:41] <stf^rocklinux> so much that they contradict each other is definitely too much.
[20:43] <stf^rocklinux> I'd prefer to add rules (or even better: guidelines) only when there's a need to do it "one way and none other".
[20:45] <stf^rocklinux> (not implying that the rules contradict each other now, I haven't even had the time to check that now)
[20:45] <stf^rocklinux> (although I'm at it for 4 hours...)
[20:48] <stf^rocklinux> well, I'll just mail my thoughts to you before sending them to rock-devel, this way we can chat about it before making any decisions.
[20:48] <blindcoder> breaking the rules means not getting your patch applied
[20:48] <blindcoder> easy as that
[20:48] <blindcoder> okay
[21:24] Action: esdentem_ doing something evil at best ...
[21:24] Action: esdentem_ installed emacs and tries to learn how to use it for piecefull purposes
[21:24] Nick change: esdentem_ -> esdentem
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[21:25] <stf^rocklinux> esdentm: emacs --spread-world-peace :D
[21:26] <elon> salue
[21:26] <stf^rocklinux> moin moin
[21:27] <esdentem> I am sure that typing something like (spread-piece (humans animals world universe aliens)) will work too ;)
[21:28] <blindcoder> moin elon 
[21:28] Action: esdentem beside diving into emacs also dares a different ill thing ... 
[21:28] <elon> hi blindcoder 
[21:28] Action: esdentem diving into the world of lisp ;)
[21:28] <esdentem> hi elon 
[21:28] <stf^rocklinux> esdentem: of course, after all it's emacs ;)
[21:28] <elon> having a moment of spare time for me ?
[21:28] <elon> i need to get sth fixed up with my rock setup...
[21:30] <stf^rocklinux> what exactly?
[21:31] <esdentem> ok ... I continue my evil emacs and lisp jurney at home ...
[21:31] <elon> fsck bails out on boot (while init) because the partition is encrypted... 
[21:31] <esdentem> cu guys
[21:31] <elon> cu
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[21:31] <elon> but.. if i put the /dev/mapper/.... device in fstab
[21:31] <blindcoder> elon: did you set the partition type to encrypted and comment the original line in /etc/fstab?
[21:31] <elon> fsck bails out and says partition is already mounted
[21:32] <blindcoder> yes, you need to # comment the line
[21:32] <elon> ah ok...
[21:32] <elon> wonderful
[21:33] <elon> i'll add this information in the wiki ok ?
[21:33] <blindcoder> please do
[21:33] <blindcoder> that'd be great!
[21:34] <elon> great work btw :)
[21:35] <elon> i suppose encrypted swap should stay in fstab
[21:35] <blindcoder> no
[21:36] <elon> okay.
[21:36] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: why not?
[21:37] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: why not what?
[21:37] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: why not have encrypted swap in fstab?
[21:38] <stf^rocklinux> (I'm a complete noob to encrypted fs, but I'm asking anyhow ^^)
[21:38] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: because the devicemapper script creates and swapon's the encrypted swap
[21:38] <blindcoder> if it was in fstab, /etc/rc.d/init.d/system would try to swapon it and fail
[21:39] <stf^rocklinux> ic, thx.
[21:42] <elon> tnx blindcoder.. up and running again
[21:43] <blindcoder> elon: a pleasure :)
[21:43] <blindcoder> guess I should just automatically comment/uncomment encrypted stuff from /etc/fstab
[21:44] <elon> yes..  
[21:49] <elon> another question... while recreating the initrd /etc/conf/initrd/initrd_base / initrd_essential request udevsend and insmod.old .. which don't exist as they are opsolete i think.. 
[21:49] <blindcoder> ouch
[21:50] <elon> this isnt a problem or ?
[21:50] <elon> (crystal-r7579)
[21:50] <blindcoder> can you add that to the page Roadmap?
[21:50] <blindcoder> it's not a problem
[21:50] <blindcoder> as to functionality
[21:50] <blindcoder> but it should be addressed as a bug in initrd_base
[21:51] <elon> ok i'll put it on Roadmap and delete the lines in my files..
[22:32] <stf^rocklinux> omfg, "South Park" is just hilariously sick ^^
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[00:00] --- Fri Jun 23 2006