[00:10] <elon> aehm anybody in that can tell where /etc/rc.whatever is gone in rock-crystal-r7579
[00:17] <stf^rocklinux> let's see...
[00:19] <stf^rocklinux> elon: what file are your looking for? There's a lot of files below /etc/rc.d/ in latest rev...
[00:19] <elon> im looking for rc.conf !
[00:21] <stf^rocklinux> there's no such file in ROCK, see e.g. http://sonar.rocklinux.org
[00:21] <elon> hm musst be new.. in my last rock there where the normal rc. scripts in /etc
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[00:22] <stf^rocklinux> elon: rc scripts are in /etc/rc.d/init.d/
[00:23] <stf^rocklinux> and there's also /etc/initscript, which is called for every entry in /etc/inittab
[00:23] <elon> yes.. but i dont mean the script that are for init i mean scripts like /etc/rc.conf /etc/rc.local /etc/rc.shutdown eg
[00:24] <elon> the laast rock i had was from Camp03.. there they were...
[00:25] <elon> looks like configuring is now made in different locations
[00:25] <stf^rocklinux> hmm, I've never used that release... you're most probably right and those files aren't used atm.
[00:26] <stf^rocklinux> better ask a dev who has been with ROCK longer than me...
[00:27] <elon> kk.. i'll search my way to the config files
[00:28] <stf^rocklinux> I suggest to read a bit about System V init style (see `man init` for details`) if you're new to it :)
[00:29] <stf^rocklinux> then it should be pretty straight-forward to change it to your liking
[00:29] <elon> ok.. i'll do that tnx
[00:32] <elon> i suppose i missed 'the new way' in linux /etc layout
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[03:14] <elon> cu
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[07:04] <blindcoder> moin
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[12:19] <stf^rocklinux> moin
[12:59] <stf^rocklinux> th: your journal requires a hotfix, see 2006062312534120523
[13:00] <th> Patch not found!
[13:03] <stf^rocklinux> mom
[13:07] <stf^rocklinux> th: see 2006062313064940010 
[13:07] <stf^rocklinux> sm is obviously broken, as daja already noticed :/
[13:08] <th> oh ok - this fix looks really hot
[13:09] <th> stf^rocklinux: do you have further test results?
[13:09] <stf^rocklinux> not yet
[13:10] <th> please let me know, once you do hae
[13:10] <th> v
[13:10] <stf^rocklinux> th: btw. what do you think of moving all CORE packages to base?
[13:10] <th> nothing!
[13:11] <th> we do have the CORE flag.
[13:11] <daja77> :)
[13:12] <th> hmm?
[13:12] <stf^rocklinux> th: me too. blindcoder noticed that rockinitrd was moved to base... but as I see it that was a historical error. I'd rather move rockinitrd back to his repo.
[13:14] <stf^rocklinux> there seems to another new error in latest crystal:
[13:14] <stf^rocklinux> Freeing unused kernel memory: 224k freed
[13:14] <stf^rocklinux> cp: will not create hard link `/dev/pts' to directory `/dev/bus/usb'
[13:14] <stf^rocklinux> cp: will not create hard link `/dev/shm' to directory `/dev/bus/usb'
[13:14] <stf^rocklinux> loading kernel modules
[13:15] <th> hmm
[13:17] <stf^rocklinux> ah well, and some irda-utils man pages are broken, causing lots of ugly looking output when running postinstall...
[13:17] <stf^rocklinux> see e.g. man irnet 
[13:18] <th> sounds scky
[13:19] <daja77> broken man pages ... that's sort of creative ..
[13:20] <stf^rocklinux> ^^
[13:20] <stf^rocklinux> from man irnet: It use-
[13:20] <stf^rocklinux> seI PPPein synchronous mode, because IrTTP ofmRible stequencd tackets serice v(as oppoed to
[13:20] <stf^rocklinux> ac byt staeatm)
[13:21] <th> check your $LANG ;-)
[13:21] <th> sounds queer to me
[13:21] <th> something far away
[13:25] <blindcoder> re
[13:26] <stf^rocklinux> wb blindcoder
[13:27] <blindcoder> tnx
[13:31] <stf^rocklinux> hm, I have no idea how this error with /dev/bus/usb can happen (but I'm pretty sure it happens in rockinitrd init script)
[13:31] <stf^rocklinux> when the command `cp -r /lib/udev/devices/* /dev` is executed...
[14:54] <stf^rocklinux> th: the /dev/bus/usb error is fixed in [2006062314523072770]
[15:01] <blindcoder> NOOO! HARRIET DIED!
[15:02] <mnemoc> ?
[15:02] <blindcoder> Tom, Dick and Harry?
[15:02] <blindcoder> Charles Darwin's turtles?
[15:02] <mnemoc> o.o
[15:03] <blindcoder> come on, are you a self-respecting nerd/geek or not?
[15:03] <mnemoc> :(
[15:04] <blindcoder> you know charles darwin?
[15:04] <mnemoc> yep
[15:04] <mnemoc> but i didn't know he had three turtles as mascots
[15:04] <blindcoder> he had three turtles, name Tom, Dick and Harry
[15:05] <blindcoder> Harry was later discovered to actually be female, thus renamed Harriet
[15:05] <blindcoder> and she died last night :(
[15:05] <mnemoc> is she the first or the last to die?
[15:05] <blindcoder> hmm, good question
[15:09] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: do you have a clue how my fix in 2006062314523072770 works? Because I don't :S
[15:09] <mnemoc> blindcoder: how is your new cave?
[15:10] <stf^rocklinux> it's not really important to know, but I just find it Very Strange (tm).
[15:10] <blindcoder> mnemoc: I'll get the keys on July 17
[15:10] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: indeed it is
[15:10] <mnemoc> blindcoder: ah, ok
[15:12] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: no, no idea
[15:14] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I'll attribute it to sun spot cycles, then ...
[15:15] <blindcoder> hehe
[16:21] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: I spammed your email account again ...
[16:23] <blindcoder> bless your little heart :)
[16:25] <blindcoder> stf^rocklinux: but two can play that game! MUAHAHHAHA
[16:27] <stf^rocklinux> hm? which game? are you planning to "spam back"? 
[16:27] <blindcoder> yeah :)
[16:27] <daja77> .oO (stf^spammer)
[16:28] <stf^rocklinux> o_O I'll go to the supermarket, then...
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[17:22] <stf^rocklinux> re
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[18:12] <blindcoder> /dev/md/0             699G   33M  699G   1% /mnt/generic
[18:12] <blindcoder> \o/
[18:42] <SMP> fuck.
[18:42] <blindcoder> hm?
[18:42] <blindcoder> who?
[18:43] <SMP> the Crystal pkgsel re-disables all packages explicitly enabled by custom pkgsel rules
[18:43] <blindcoder> hmm
[18:44] <blindcoder> I think there was a reason for that
[18:44] <blindcoder> I just don't remember it
[18:46] <SMP> it works when I rm target/crystal/postconfig.in
[18:48] <blindcoder> obviously
[18:48] <blindcoder> tried activating ROCKCFG_TARGET_CRYSTAL_BUILDADDONS?
[18:48] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: the reason was that CORE packages built with crystal should not depend on non-core packages
[18:49] <stf^rocklinux> blindcoder: by building non-core packages in stage 9 only (if the option given above is enabled), this can be achieved effectively
[18:50] <SMP> blindcoder: I don't want any other non-CORE stuff
[18:51] <SMP> let's see how glibc-2.4 and gcc-4.1.1 work out ...
[18:51] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: in default crystal config, all non-core packages are disabled, if you use the option above, then you can build non-core packages (in stage 9)
[18:57] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: this is useless. it leaves all packages enabled
[18:58] <blindcoder> disabled
[18:59] <stf^rocklinux> hm, let me see...
[18:59] <SMP> (unless they're diabled by default)
[18:59] <SMP> (which isn't many)
[19:00] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: maybe use O * in package selection?
[19:00] <SMP> that's not a solution
[19:01] <SMP> (and I don't think it'll work)
[19:01] <mnemoc> it does
[19:01] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: why not? I'd disable  all packages, and CORE packages would later be re-enabled by crystal/postconfig.in
[19:02] <stf^rocklinux> hm, seems I'm wrong...
[19:03] <stf^rocklinux> add X CORE, then
[19:04] <SMP> *sigh*
[19:04] <SMP> this isn't the kind of attitude that gets a "release" out. let alone anything that people really *want*
[19:05] <blindcoder> SMP: well, noone tells us what they want
[19:05] <blindcoder> SMP: people only complain that it is NOT what they want
[19:05] <blindcoder> not that I want to name names here
[19:06] <SMP> come on, this is so SIMPLE
[19:06] <blindcoder> yes, it is
[19:06] <blindcoder> WE have a distribution
[19:06] <blindcoder> WE decide how it's done
[19:06] <blindcoder> if YOU don't like it, mkdir target/SMPs_great_distribution
[19:07] <SMP> people use scripts/Config, they say "I want a crystal target", and I want these other four packages, thanks!" -- that's what the user-interface suggests they can do
[19:08] <blindcoder> yeah, somewhere deep below the "Expert" options
[19:08] <blindcoder> are they experts?
[19:08] <blindcoder> maybe in picking their noses, but not in using ROCK
[19:09] <daja77> >_<
[19:09] <daja77> why i need to be an expert to add some fucking packages
[19:10] <blindcoder> because for fucking as for adding packages you need protection
[19:10] <stf^rocklinux> daja77: because of dependencies
[19:10] <SMP> instead stf suggests they to "I want a crystal target and because I also want these other four packages, I have to DUPLICATE ALL OF THE CRYSTAL PKGSEL by explicitly stating "O *" and "X CORE" and then my four packages -- and I mustn't forget to also chose "also build add-on packages", because otherwise nothing of that will work"
[19:10] <blindcoder> mostly from version incompatibilities with depending packages
[19:10] <daja77> X $package could include the deps ..
[19:11] <SMP> blindcoder: you're just trying to justify a bug. leave it alone ...
[19:11] <blindcoder> SMP: and you're getting worked up over it. get to work fixing it instead if it bothers you that much.
[19:11] <SMP> your attitude can't be fixed, unfortunately
[19:12] <blindcoder> neither can yours, sadly
[19:12] <stf^rocklinux> stop insulting each other!
[19:12] Action: blindcoder goes to his corner to play some X
[19:12] <stf^rocklinux> that's getting us nowhere...
[19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: there's a very specific reason why package selection is handled this way in crystal, see above
[19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: not that I totally agree with it, but it has a point.
[19:14] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: I even reported it as a bug some time ago...
[19:15] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: ok, then why can I use that custom pkgsel stuff in the Config script even when it will deliberately never work?
[19:16] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: because noone has time to think of a better solution yet, I guess...
[19:16] <stf^rocklinux> s/has/has had/
[19:16] <SMP> all I do is rm target/crystal/postconfig.in and everythink works as it should
[19:17] <blindcoder> then send it as a patch to submaster
[19:17] <blindcoder> and barring lengthy discussions about it it will be applied
[19:17] <SMP> . o O ( "everythink" -- I must have read too many Userfriendlies ... )
[19:17] <blindcoder> add a small note why you think this should be like that and I doubt there wil be objections
[19:18] <SMP> I have no idea what the side-effects are -- and apparently nobody here does, too
[19:18] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: I think it's better to modify postconfig.in than completely remove it...
[19:19] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: if you'd give me a few minutes, I could take a look at it...
[19:19] <blindcoder> SMP: try a complete crystal build, and the side-effects will show
[19:19] <blindcoder> SMP: I'd guess there won't be any
[19:19] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: the only way to fix it is to effectivly remove all logic from it
[19:20] <stf^rocklinux> the point with all postconfig.in stuff for crystal is that core packages cannot depend on non-core packages, as I already said.
[19:20] <SMP> blindcoder: bullshit. the only logic in there deals with the pkgsel. a build proves nothing about that
[19:20] <blindcoder> SMP: then runnig scripts/Config is all the test there needs to be
[19:20] <blindcoder> SMP: and as I see, you've done that
[19:21] <SMP> blindcoder: you don't find out about side-effects by experimentation
[19:21] <blindcoder> what side-effects _could_ there possibly be?
[19:22] <blindcoder> your computer blowing up? your cat getting pregnant? your neighbors head blowing up? (that'd be fun!)
[19:23] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: we do by testing changes to core parts, e.g.
[19:24] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: but of course we try to understand changes to core parts before they are applied. However this doesn't catch all side-effects in every case, hence the testing...
[19:24] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: you don't find out about side-effects by trial-and-error. either you know what you're doing or your ask someone who does
[19:24] <SMP> someone put that postconfig.in logic there for a reason
[19:25] <SMP> what reason probably hasn't gone away
[19:25] <SMP> if it ever existed
[19:25] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: you can't expect anyone to understand every single line of source code used in desktop distro...
[19:25] <blindcoder> clifford put it in
[19:25] <blindcoder> if you can get a hold of him and ask him, please do
[19:26] <blindcoder> you'll get a cookie for achieving the seemingly impossible
[19:26] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: to repeat myself for the third time: in Crystal, non-core packages are built only in stage 9, so that core packages cannot possibly depend on them...
[19:27] <stf^rocklinux> crystal core packages were meant for distribution via CD, e.g. , and non-core packages via network (as add-ons)
[19:27] <SMP> stf^rocklinux: where's the logic that does this
[19:27] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: in crystal/{post,}config.in
[19:30] <stf^rocklinux> using pkgfilter
[19:31] <SMP> yeah. you're right. took me a while to understand what it does
[19:31] <stf^rocklinux> me too, until someone explained it to me
[19:32] <SMP> does the custom pkgsel in scripts/config.in run before or after target/crystal/config.in ?
[19:34] <stf^rocklinux> see http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/The_ROCK_Linux_Hacking_HowTo#config.in_Call-Tree
[19:34] <stf^rocklinux> it says that all *config.in files are called from scripts/config.in
[19:35] <stf^rocklinux> and also in which order
[19:36] <SMP> that doesn't answer my question ;-)
[19:37] <stf^rocklinux> SMP: scripts/config.in runs all other *config.in files, so it's first 
[19:37] <stf^rocklinux> ah, wait...
[19:37] <SMP> wrong
[19:38] <stf^rocklinux> well, I'll have to look that up myself, by reading scripts/config.in...
[19:39] <SMP> target/$ROCKCFG_TARGET/config.in is first, then the custom pkgsel, then any postconfig.in
[19:40] <SMP> brb
[19:40] <stf^rocklinux> yep
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