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[02:55] brian|lfs (n=brian@216-15-45-30.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com) left irc: "Leaving" [03:53] kasc_ (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-097-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [04:03] kasc (n=kasc@dslb-084-060-105-054.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) [04:03] Nick change: kasc_ -> kasc [04:18] <fake> 1.6 of 1.9 GB uploaded so far [04:27] brian|lfs (n=brian@216-15-45-30.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com) joined #rocklinux. [04:40] <brian|lfs> Does either one of the rock package managers check for dependiences? [04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: rocket does [04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: but mine doesn't [04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: rocket checks for dependencies when installing a package off a gem package pool [04:59] <fake> brian|lfs: gasgui (the graphical frontend to mine) can resolve dependencies too, iirc [04:59] <fake> brian|lfs: the logic in rocket is written in shell, so it should be easy to re-implement or adopt if you need it [05:00] <brian|lfs> thanks [05:00] <fake> brian|lfs: it's gawk, sorry [05:01] <fake> brian|lfs: line 365 to 407 [05:02] <brian|lfs> were still going back and fourth on how we want to do our distro [05:02] <brian|lfs> at first we were thinking about using pacman [05:02] <brian|lfs> we still might not sure [05:02] <fake> i'd be all for it [05:03] <fake> the package manager part needs more modularization in rock, i'd be willing to work on it if you need hooks or so [05:03] <fake> like, not only support mine, but also rpm and pacman [05:04] <fake> (maybe not down to the installer and such, but just packaging up would still be nice) [05:04] <brian|lfs> ya we are debating over that one if the base should be all pacman packages or not beucase if its not it would be hard to upgrade the base [05:05] <fake> what makes it easier to upgrade them if you use pacman? i have to admit, i don't really know anything about pacman other than that it's a package manager [05:06] <fake> .oO( which is pretty obvious. a great name!) [05:06] <brian|lfs> pacman can upgrade anythign like gcc everything [05:06] <fake> what's so special about that? the only really hairy thing to update (for a non-c++ program) is glibc [05:07] <fake> and updating glibc ranks top on the list of things you don't want to do 'just because a new one's out' ;-) [05:08] <brian|lfs> lol [05:08] <brian|lfs> you have a point [05:11] <fake> i really need some sleep now [05:11] <fake> have fun designing your distro ! [06:24] <brian|lfs> ok night man [09:23] <owl> moin [10:54] esden (i=esdentem@pallas.crash-override.net) joined #rocklinux. [10:54] <esden> moin [10:55] <owl> hi esden ! [11:45] Nick change: ija_ -> ija [12:58] daja77 (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-041-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #rocklinux. [13:10] daja77_ (n=daja77@dslb-088-072-033-251.pools.arcor-ip.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [15:23] muxx (n=muxx@muxxik.force9.co.uk) joined #rocklinux. [15:23] <muxx> hello. I have a problem with building the latest release from sources. can anybody help me please ? [15:26] <daja77> if you provide more details this might be possible [15:26] <muxx> sure. just checking if there's somebody alive here [15:27] <daja77> partly ;) [15:27] <muxx> I downloaded ROCK3-source-r7770.tar.bz2 and configured a router build [15:27] <muxx> basically did everything that BUILD says [15:28] <muxx> and now I am getting the following when building binutils: [15:28] <muxx> \...src.binutils.1154437545.1884.273383950/dependencies.txt: No such file or directory [15:28] <muxx> == 08/01/06 14:08:45 =[0]=> Aborted building package binutils. [15:29] <daja77> ah ok, as far as i know the router target got no maintainance for a while, so according to fake it is broken [15:29] <muxx> right... [15:30] <muxx> what is the easiest way to get a minimal installation ? the kernel, basic libraries, opeenssh+sshd etc [15:30] <daja77> have you tried to rebuild it? i remember that dependencies.txt thing, but iirc this was a heisenbug [15:30] <muxx> no X or any other GUI crap [15:30] <daja77> try the rock-bbs target [15:30] <muxx> I tried to wipe out the downloads directory and did a Cleanup -- no luck [15:31] <daja77> nah older downloads do no harn [15:31] <daja77> harm [15:31] <muxx> how do I choose it ? using ./scripts/Config or some command-line option ? [15:32] <daja77> Config [15:32] <muxx> rock-bbs ? [15:32] <daja77> oh ic the rock-bbs target is not in [15:32] <muxx> 8( [15:32] <daja77> build-bootstrap [15:33] <muxx> can't see that either 8( [15:33] <muxx> Boot-, Install- and Rescue-System [15:33] <muxx> Reference-Build for creating *.cache files [15:33] <muxx> Advanced rescue-system-in-a-tar [15:33] <muxx> sorry for being stupid [15:34] <daja77> mompl [15:36] <daja77> ah ok [15:36] <daja77> choose generic [15:36] <muxx> yeah, I did it but then I noticed that ./scripts/Download -required downloads X and stopped it 8( [15:36] <daja77> go to the experts options [15:37] <daja77> and choose a package selection template [15:37] <muxx> aaahh, right... [15:37] <muxx> I did not get the syntax [15:37] <daja77> and there Build Environment (bbs) [15:37] <daja77> would probably fit to your needs [15:38] <muxx> Edit package selection rules ? [15:38] <daja77> no [15:38] <daja77> package selection template [15:39] <daja77> you can still edit it of course [15:39] Action: muxx is looking... [15:40] <muxx> got it [15:40] <muxx> why bbs, not, say, "Minimalistic package selection" ? [15:41] <daja77> because bbs is one that actually works and is tested [15:41] <daja77> and minimalistic was bloated according to ppl who used it [15:43] <daja77> but you can try it if you like [15:43] <muxx> sure, I'll try bbs first. you obviously know this stuff better [15:44] <muxx> can you point me at some info on package selection rules ? [15:45] <muxx> bollocks. it looks like bbs implies 2.4.32 kernel 8( [15:46] <daja77> https://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Changing_the_package_selection [15:46] <daja77> well change it [15:52] <muxx> I wish I knew how to 8) [15:53] <daja77> read the link .. [15:53] Action: muxx is reading [15:56] <muxx> I see there are several kernels available, including 2.6 [15:57] <muxx> but I don't get how to deactivate 2.4 and activate 2.6 [15:57] <daja77> O linux=linux24 [15:57] <daja77> X linux=linux26 [15:58] <daja77> and you want to add the header package [15:59] <daja77> X linux-libc-headers [15:59] <muxx> afaics it is already there [15:59] <daja77> ok [16:01] <muxx> still wrong... I guess I need O linux=linux24-source [16:06] <daja77> you can choose the kernel in config [16:07] <muxx> using package selection rules ? [16:07] <daja77> no [16:07] <daja77> using the linux section in config [16:07] <daja77> expert options [16:07] <muxx> does this mean that I don't need those kernel rules anymore ? [16:08] <daja77> yep, sry I am a bit busy [16:09] <muxx> np [16:11] <muxx> this is bizarre... the Linux Kernel Options are set for 2.6 but it still downloads 2.4, unless I set the package selection rules [16:12] <daja77> well it is downloaded but not built [16:12] <muxx> right, ok. I might as well let it download it [16:13] <muxx> if it is not going to build it [16:13] <daja77> it is not [16:13] <muxx> great [16:13] <daja77> no idea why blindys fix for this did not got in [16:14] <muxx> well, it happens [16:15] <muxx> sorry for so many stupid questions. I want to build a custom distribution for my mythtv backend. I want to put everything on a CF card [16:16] <muxx> it looks like rock is what I need because conventional distros are just too bloated [16:16] <daja77> it might still be too much for this purpose [16:17] <muxx> you mean the footprint too large ? [16:18] <daja77> well yes, it ships a compiler and stuff [16:18] <daja77> but go ahead playing with it, it might be a good start anyway [16:18] <muxx> any way of preventing this ? [16:19] <daja77> yes, creating your own package selection ;) [16:19] <muxx> okay, this makes sense [16:19] <muxx> I am a bit of a novice when it comes to GNU/Linux distros. I mostly use BSDs [16:20] <daja77> ic [16:21] <muxx> I liked how early Gentoo was made. the basic installation was simple and lightweight. now it became bloated as well 8( [16:22] <muxx> you won't believe. the same problem with binutils 8( [16:22] <daja77> oh i do believe [16:23] <daja77> i will start a rock bbs build and see if i can reproduce it [16:23] <daja77> have you selected any optimization? [16:24] <muxx> everything by default, but I build for pentium [16:25] <daja77> mmx? [16:34] <daja77> ok started a build with pentium optimization [16:37] <muxx> sorry. was afk [16:38] <muxx> btw it still builds 2.4 ! [16:38] <muxx> ^H^H^H^H^H fetches [16:38] <muxx> but never fetches 2.6 [16:39] <muxx> I chose "Optimised for Intel Pentium" [16:53] <daja77> perhaps you already have 2.6 [16:53] <muxx> maybe [16:55] <muxx> is dependencies.txt in the tar.bz2 file ? [17:02] <muxx> what is interesting is that I have dependencies.txt, but it is not where the build is looking for it [17:04] <daja77> sry had to restart, downlaods were missing [17:08] <muxx> what is this file anyway ? is it generated or contained within the tarball ? [17:08] <daja77> in which stage binutils fails? [17:09] <muxx> there's a problem with linking [17:09] <muxx> arlex.c:1: multiple definition of `main' [17:10] <muxx> and more [17:10] <daja77> are you sure you build envoronment is sane? [17:11] <muxx> hmm. so far had no problems [17:11] <muxx> does it require bison or yacc ? [17:11] <daja77> dunno [17:12] <muxx> the linker was complainig about some yy* symbols [17:13] <daja77> might be the reason [17:13] <daja77> if you don't have them [17:13] <muxx> well, if I had neither, the configure script should have complained [17:13] <muxx> if the package requires them [17:15] <daja77> =[0]=> Finished building package binutils. [17:15] <daja77> does it fail already in stage 0? [17:15] <muxx> == 08/01/06 16:07:29 =[0]=> Aborted building package binutils. [17:15] <daja77> ok [17:16] <muxx> binutils-2.16.91.0.7 [17:16] <daja77> so there is some problem with your build environment [17:16] <daja77> 2.17.50.0.1 [17:18] <daja77> hm ok this a patch from submaster i have in my tree, but the previous version worked here too [17:18] <muxx> can I try another version ? [17:19] <fake> upload done [17:19] <muxx> # yacc --version [17:19] <muxx> bison (GNU Bison) 1.875d [17:19] <daja77> fake: ah nice [17:20] <muxx> seems like a broken package to me tbh [17:20] <daja77> on what platform are you compiling rock? [17:20] <muxx> debian sarge [17:20] <muxx> gcc 3.3.5 [17:21] <muxx> I build lots on this machine [17:22] <daja77> yeah sure [17:22] <daja77> can you put the complete errorlog soemwhere? [17:22] <muxx> sure [17:22] <muxx> just for binutils ? [17:22] <daja77> yes [17:22] <fake> muxx: mythtv needs qt, which needs x. [17:23] <muxx> it needs x libraries only [17:24] <fake> muxx: mythbackend uses qt and qt mysql bindings. that's somewhat of a killer for embedding ;) [17:25] <muxx> well... it is not exactly an embedded system. it currently runs (together with a frontend !) on a 64M Xbox [17:25] Action: fake maintains the myth packages in rock [17:25] <fake> what hardware do you target? soekris boxen? [17:25] <muxx> it'll be an old PII laptop [17:26] <fake> ah, ok. i was thinking set-top-box [17:26] <muxx> no, this is for backend only [17:26] <muxx> I think the Xbox will remain the frontend [17:27] <fake> so you have a pcmcia tv card? [17:27] <muxx> no, I currently use a USB DVB-T card plugged into the Xbox [17:28] <fake> but that would then be handeled by the laptop, right? [17:28] <muxx> yeah. the laptp has USB [17:28] <fake> but... does it have USB2.0 ? [17:28] <muxx> no. why ? [17:28] <fake> isnt the data rate of DVB-T Mpeg too high for usb1 ? [17:29] <fake> just a thought [17:29] <muxx> of course not. usb 1.0 is almost 12mbps [17:29] <muxx> and the MPEG2 stream is usually lower than 5 [17:29] <fake> *scratches head& [17:29] <muxx> well, it worked for over a year somehow. 8) [17:30] <fake> ok, i have been using DVB-S... there most streams have 15 mbps, iirc [17:31] <muxx> afau, it's the max VBR [17:31] <fake> ah, ok [17:32] <muxx> the binutils log is at https://gw.muxx.spb.ru/img/binutils.txt [17:33] <muxx> but 15mbps sounds too high for standard PAL/NTSC trasmissions [17:33] <muxx> if the MPEG2 header says so, it does not mean that it is consistently like that [17:34] <fake> muxx: that looks like a flex/yacc problem, indeed [17:34] <fake> fake@localhost:~$ bison --version [17:34] <fake> bison (GNU Bison) 2.1 [17:34] <fake> fake@localhost:~$ flex --version [17:34] <fake> flex 2.5.31 [17:35] <muxx> I hate debian with its rotten packages [17:35] <fake> did you install gawk? [17:36] <muxx> I had it [17:36] <muxx> GNU Awk 3.1.4 [17:36] <fake> so awk is a symlink to gawk? that's the next-most error on debian [17:36] <muxx> I thought rock required gawk [17:37] <fake> muxx: yes, but some packages just call awk and assume it's gawk 8) [17:37] <muxx> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2005-10-14 13:19 /usr/bin/awk -> /etc/alternatives/awk [17:38] <muxx> \/etc/alternatives/awk: symbolic link to `/usr/bin/gawk' [17:38] <fake> muxx: also note that if you get 'file created outside basedir' errors, that once upon a time, debian's install-info perl script made copies of old versions of info pages to /var/something/backup [17:38] <fake> muxx: i'm not sure wether it still does [17:40] <muxx> does rock require awk at all ? [17:40] <fake> muxx: yes. a few things use awk, for example the package queue sorting, or dependency resolution [17:40] <fake> resolving [17:40] <fake> that is [17:41] <muxx> thank guys, we cracked it. it builds fine now [17:42] <muxx> at least binutils [17:42] <fake> muxx: i'll be here a little longer, in case more fails ;) [17:42] <muxx> I upgraded flex [17:43] <muxx> I wonder why configure did not catch it in the first place [17:43] <daja77> because it is crap [17:43] <muxx> %) [17:43] <fake> *tadaa* [17:43] <fake> ;) [17:44] <muxx> are there other means of modifyting the package lists, apart from the curses UI ? a text file perhaps... [17:44] <fake> muxx: the package selection sets can be altered easily [17:44] <daja77> yes, you can create a template yourself [17:44] <fake> muxx: see misc/pkgsel [17:45] <muxx> any pointers on how ? [17:45] <fake> muxx: while you're at it, replace linux and linux-source with linux=linux26 and linux=linux26-source [17:45] <fake> muxx: take a look at the files in there [17:45] <fake> muxx: it's really easy. [17:45] <muxx> yeah, we already figured that out with daja77 [17:46] <daja77> :) [17:46] <fake> muxx: regarding the 15Mbps: i think it was HDTV [17:47] <muxx> HDTV -- makes sense. the Xbox is not powerful enough to decode HDTV anyway [17:47] <muxx> and there's no HDTV on DVB-T yet [17:47] <fake> neither was my box back then. [17:47] <muxx> so now you are all HDTV-ready ? 8) [17:47] <fake> no [17:47] <fake> i don't have a hdtv-ready tv [17:48] <fake> but then again, i don't watch that much tv anymore, anyways. [17:48] <muxx> neither do I. I don't really understand all the fuss about HDTV. to appreciate you have to have a good large TV. to have a large TV you have to have a large house. 8) [17:49] <muxx> and on a normal-sized TV there is not much difference [17:49] <fake> watching hdtv-rips on the pc is nice, though ;) [17:49] <muxx> yeah. but monitor is not TV [17:49] <fake> ack [17:52] <muxx> OT: I heard that recent versions of mythtv rely on openGL heavily. is that true ? [17:57] <fake> recent as in 0.19 ? [17:57] <muxx> if I remember correctly, CVS [18:02] <fake> i haven't tried CVS/SVN [18:02] <fake> maybe it's needed for the rewritten mythui... [18:04] <muxx> I don't really know what have been happening for the last year. I built some CVS version then and forgot about it. it works beatifully [18:04] <muxx> but I heard that there are many new features [18:11] <fake> the addon packages are extracting... [18:13] <muxx> fake: do you have Jabber/GoogleTalk account at all ? [18:16] <fake> muxx: i have icq *yuck* [18:17] <muxx> yuck indeed [18:17] <fake> it's because of the non-geek friends [18:17] <muxx> I use ICQ gateway on my jabber server [18:17] <muxx> and get both [18:17] <fake> i plan on setting that up [18:18] <muxx> do you mind me texting you questions from time to time ? [18:18] <th> muxx: i did that too some time ago... now i use bitlbee. that's the better approach. [18:18] <fake> not at all. though irc would be better - it's logged and google-indexed [18:19] <muxx> yeah. it's just the fact that I don't use irc that much anymore. got used to XMPP and all... [18:20] <muxx> th> I thought about it, but as I said I dont use IRC that much [18:20] <th> muxx: i like irc for being logged and for being detachable through irssi+screen [18:22] <muxx> th> well, IM is also logged (individually) and you can easily write offline and use conference rooms [18:22] <muxx> I am in no way saying that IM is superior [18:23] <muxx> I guess it depends on where you spend most of the tim [18:23] <th> muxx: i use many IM and many IRC [18:24] <th> and IM is logged in each client only. [18:24] <muxx> th> I have everything in one client. several jabber accounts, ICQ and irc if I need to [18:26] <th> muxx: same here. [18:26] <th> muxx: and i can connect to it from any ssh-capable machine anywhere [18:26] <muxx> th> but you use IRC client and I use Jabber client. 8) [18:27] <th> muxx: correct [18:27] <muxx> th> yeah, the benefits of the console interface are obvious [18:28] <th> it's not "IRC" as it which i prefer over IM - i guess it's irssi by itself [18:31] <th> first i wanted to use the jabber extension for irssi. but the authors did not continue development after starting to use bitlbee. so i started to use it as well. [18:32] <muxx> I feel a bit unsecure when I have to depend on another server [18:32] <muxx> now all I depend on is my own jabber server [18:41] <th> well... i use my own irc server for the bitlbee connection and for internal communication of course [18:41] <fake> we have a company-internal jabber server [18:41] <th> muxx: but when you only want to use your own server with jabber then you can only talk to yourself or guys on your server [18:41] <th> same here [18:41] <th> so for #rocklinux i do connect to OPN [18:41] <th> or for other folks not on my irc server i do the same [18:41] <fake> freenet [18:41] <fake> freenode [18:41] <fake> sorry [18:45] <muxx> no, it is not that I only want to use my own server. what I mean is that I don't want all my IM contacts stores on some server. if this server goes titsup, I'll loose all of them. I have control over my server, but if it fails completely I can use an alternative server and again have contact with my peers [18:46] <muxx> my jabber server is of course connected to the distributed network of other jabber servers [18:48] <th> "IM contacts stores on some server" that server is only "127.0.0.1" for me. which i do trust. [18:48] <th> so bitlbee is not a service but a software. [18:48] <th> sort of a jabber/icq/aim/whatever client. [18:49] <th> but that clients frontend is a irc server [18:49] <muxx> aaah, got it now [18:49] <muxx> I thought you were using their server [18:49] <th> nope [18:49] <th> their software only [18:50] <fake> the addon packages are uploaded [18:53] <fake> https://gems.rocklinux.org/repo/ROCK3/TRUNK-x86-pentium-mmx-32-crystal-addons/pkgs/ [18:57] <muxx> guys, how do I stop rock from building locales ? I could live with C [18:58] <fake> muxx: there is a config option for that [18:59] <fake> muxx: almost at the bottom of the Config screen [18:59] <muxx> ok [19:00] <muxx> ok, thanks a lot for all the help. I am off, bb [19:25] <fake> someone is translating the Main Page to russian or so [22:27] brian|lfs (n=brian@216-15-45-30.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection [23:01] nookie (n=nookie@85-124-52-222.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #rocklinux. [23:04] ija_ (n=ija@84.19.218.225) joined #rocklinux. [23:20] ija (n=ija@84.19.222.220) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) [23:29] Nick change: ija_ -> ija [00:00] --- Wed Aug 2 2006