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[04:18] <fake> 1.6 of 1.9 GB uploaded so far
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[04:40] <brian|lfs> Does either one of the rock package managers check for dependiences?
[04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: rocket does
[04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: but mine doesn't
[04:58] <fake> brian|lfs: rocket checks for dependencies when installing a package off a gem package pool
[04:59] <fake> brian|lfs: gasgui (the graphical frontend to mine) can resolve dependencies too, iirc
[04:59] <fake> brian|lfs: the logic in rocket is written in shell, so it should be easy to re-implement or adopt if you need it
[05:00] <brian|lfs> thanks
[05:00] <fake> brian|lfs: it's gawk, sorry
[05:01] <fake> brian|lfs: line 365 to 407
[05:02] <brian|lfs> were still going back and fourth on how we want to do our distro
[05:02] <brian|lfs> at first we were thinking about using pacman
[05:02] <brian|lfs> we still might not sure
[05:02] <fake> i'd be all for it
[05:03] <fake> the package manager part needs more modularization in rock, i'd be willing to work on it if you need hooks or so
[05:03] <fake> like, not only support mine, but also rpm and pacman
[05:04] <fake> (maybe not down to the installer and such, but just packaging up would still be nice)
[05:04] <brian|lfs> ya we are debating over that one if the base should be all pacman packages or not beucase if its not it would be hard to upgrade the base
[05:05] <fake> what makes it easier to upgrade them if you use pacman? i have to admit, i don't really know anything about pacman other than that it's a package manager
[05:06] <fake> .oO( which is pretty obvious. a great name!)
[05:06] <brian|lfs> pacman can upgrade anythign like gcc everything
[05:06] <fake> what's so special about that? the only really hairy thing to update (for a non-c++ program) is glibc
[05:07] <fake> and updating glibc ranks top on the list of things you don't want to do 'just because a new one's out' ;-)
[05:08] <brian|lfs> lol
[05:08] <brian|lfs> you have a point
[05:11] <fake> i really need some sleep now
[05:11] <fake> have fun designing your distro !
[06:24] <brian|lfs> ok night man
[09:23] <owl> moin
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[10:54] <esden> moin
[10:55] <owl> hi esden ! 
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[15:23] <muxx> hello. I have a problem with building the latest release from sources. can anybody help me please ?
[15:26] <daja77> if you provide more details this might be possible
[15:26] <muxx> sure. just checking if there's somebody alive here
[15:27] <daja77> partly ;)
[15:27] <muxx> I downloaded ROCK3-source-r7770.tar.bz2 and configured a router build
[15:27] <muxx> basically did everything that BUILD says
[15:28] <muxx> and now I am getting the following when building binutils:
[15:28] <muxx> \...src.binutils.1154437545.1884.273383950/dependencies.txt: No such file or directory
[15:28] <muxx> == 08/01/06 14:08:45 =[0]=> Aborted building package binutils.
[15:29] <daja77> ah ok, as far as i know the router target got no maintainance for a while, so according to fake it is broken
[15:29] <muxx> right...
[15:30] <muxx> what is the easiest way to get a minimal installation ? the kernel, basic libraries, opeenssh+sshd etc
[15:30] <daja77> have you tried to rebuild it? i remember that dependencies.txt thing, but iirc this was a heisenbug
[15:30] <muxx> no X or any other GUI crap
[15:30] <daja77> try the rock-bbs target
[15:30] <muxx> I tried to wipe out the downloads directory and did a Cleanup -- no luck
[15:31] <daja77> nah older downloads do no harn
[15:31] <daja77> harm
[15:31] <muxx> how do I choose it ? using ./scripts/Config or some command-line option ?
[15:32] <daja77> Config
[15:32] <muxx> rock-bbs ?
[15:32] <daja77> oh ic the rock-bbs target is not in
[15:32] <muxx> 8(
[15:32] <daja77> build-bootstrap
[15:33] <muxx> can't see that either 8(
[15:33] <muxx> Boot-, Install- and Rescue-System
[15:33] <muxx> Reference-Build for creating *.cache files
[15:33] <muxx> Advanced rescue-system-in-a-tar
[15:33] <muxx> sorry for being stupid
[15:34] <daja77> mompl
[15:36] <daja77> ah ok
[15:36] <daja77> choose generic
[15:36] <muxx> yeah, I did it but then I noticed that ./scripts/Download -required downloads X and stopped it 8(
[15:36] <daja77> go to the experts options
[15:37] <daja77> and choose a package selection template
[15:37] <muxx> aaahh, right...
[15:37] <muxx> I did not get the syntax
[15:37] <daja77> and there Build Environment (bbs) 
[15:37] <daja77> would probably fit to your needs
[15:38] <muxx> Edit package selection rules ?
[15:38] <daja77> no
[15:38] <daja77> package selection template
[15:39] <daja77> you can still edit it of course
[15:39] Action: muxx is looking...
[15:40] <muxx> got it
[15:40] <muxx> why bbs, not, say, "Minimalistic package selection" ?
[15:41] <daja77> because bbs is one that actually works and is tested
[15:41] <daja77> and minimalistic was bloated according to ppl who used it
[15:43] <daja77> but you can try it if you like
[15:43] <muxx> sure, I'll try bbs first. you obviously know this stuff better
[15:44] <muxx> can you point me at some info on package selection rules ?
[15:45] <muxx> bollocks. it looks like bbs implies 2.4.32 kernel 8(
[15:46] <daja77> http://www.rocklinux.org/wiki/Changing_the_package_selection
[15:46] <daja77> well change it
[15:52] <muxx> I wish I knew how to 8)
[15:53] <daja77> read the link ..
[15:53] Action: muxx is reading
[15:56] <muxx> I see there are several kernels available, including 2.6
[15:57] <muxx> but I don't get how to deactivate 2.4 and activate 2.6
[15:57] <daja77> O linux=linux24
[15:57] <daja77> X linux=linux26
[15:58] <daja77> and you want to add the header package
[15:59] <daja77> X linux-libc-headers
[15:59] <muxx> afaics it is already there
[15:59] <daja77> ok
[16:01] <muxx> still wrong... I guess I need O linux=linux24-source
[16:06] <daja77> you can choose the kernel in config
[16:07] <muxx> using package selection rules ?
[16:07] <daja77> no
[16:07] <daja77> using the linux section in config
[16:07] <daja77> expert options
[16:07] <muxx> does this mean that I don't need those kernel rules anymore ?
[16:08] <daja77> yep, sry I am a bit busy
[16:09] <muxx> np
[16:11] <muxx> this is bizarre... the Linux Kernel Options are set for 2.6 but it still downloads 2.4, unless I set the package selection rules
[16:12] <daja77> well it is downloaded but not built
[16:12] <muxx> right, ok. I might as well let it download it
[16:13] <muxx> if it is not going to build it
[16:13] <daja77> it is not
[16:13] <muxx> great
[16:13] <daja77> no idea why blindys fix for this did not got in
[16:14] <muxx> well, it happens
[16:15] <muxx> sorry for so many stupid questions. I want to build a custom distribution for my mythtv backend. I want to put everything on a CF card
[16:16] <muxx> it looks like rock is what I need because conventional distros are just too bloated
[16:16] <daja77> it might still be too much for this purpose
[16:17] <muxx> you mean the footprint too large ?
[16:18] <daja77> well yes, it ships a compiler and stuff
[16:18] <daja77> but go ahead playing with it, it might be a good start anyway
[16:18] <muxx> any way of preventing this ?
[16:19] <daja77> yes, creating your own package selection ;)
[16:19] <muxx> okay, this makes sense
[16:19] <muxx> I am a bit of a novice when it comes to GNU/Linux distros. I mostly use BSDs
[16:20] <daja77> ic
[16:21] <muxx> I liked how early Gentoo was made. the basic installation was simple and lightweight. now it became bloated as well 8(
[16:22] <muxx> you won't believe. the same problem with binutils 8(
[16:22] <daja77> oh i do believe
[16:23] <daja77> i will start a rock bbs build and see if i can reproduce it
[16:23] <daja77> have you selected any optimization?
[16:24] <muxx> everything by default, but I build for pentium
[16:25] <daja77> mmx?
[16:34] <daja77> ok started a build with pentium optimization
[16:37] <muxx> sorry. was afk
[16:38] <muxx> btw it still builds 2.4 !
[16:38] <muxx> ^H^H^H^H^H fetches
[16:38] <muxx> but never fetches 2.6
[16:39] <muxx> I chose "Optimised for Intel Pentium"
[16:53] <daja77> perhaps you already have 2.6
[16:53] <muxx> maybe
[16:55] <muxx> is dependencies.txt in the tar.bz2 file ?
[17:02] <muxx> what is interesting is that I have dependencies.txt, but it is not where the build is looking for it
[17:04] <daja77> sry had to restart, downlaods were missing
[17:08] <muxx> what is this file anyway ? is it generated or contained within the tarball ?
[17:08] <daja77> in which stage binutils fails?
[17:09] <muxx> there's a problem with linking
[17:09] <muxx> arlex.c:1: multiple definition of `main'
[17:10] <muxx> and more
[17:10] <daja77> are you sure you build envoronment is sane?
[17:11] <muxx> hmm. so far had no problems
[17:11] <muxx> does it require bison or yacc ?
[17:11] <daja77> dunno
[17:12] <muxx> the linker was complainig about some yy* symbols
[17:13] <daja77> might be the reason
[17:13] <daja77> if you don't have them
[17:13] <muxx> well, if I had neither, the configure script should have complained
[17:13] <muxx> if the package requires them
[17:15] <daja77> =[0]=> Finished building package binutils.
[17:15] <daja77> does it fail already in stage 0?
[17:15] <muxx> == 08/01/06 16:07:29 =[0]=> Aborted building package binutils.
[17:15] <daja77> ok
[17:16] <muxx> binutils-
[17:16] <daja77> so there is some problem with your build environment
[17:16] <daja77>
[17:18] <daja77> hm ok this a patch from submaster i have in my tree, but the previous version worked here too
[17:18] <muxx> can I try another version ?
[17:19] <fake> upload done
[17:19] <muxx> # yacc --version
[17:19] <muxx> bison (GNU Bison) 1.875d
[17:19] <daja77> fake: ah nice
[17:20] <muxx> seems like a broken package to me tbh
[17:20] <daja77> on what platform are you compiling rock?
[17:20] <muxx> debian sarge
[17:20] <muxx> gcc 3.3.5
[17:21] <muxx> I build lots on this machine
[17:22] <daja77> yeah sure
[17:22] <daja77> can you put the complete errorlog soemwhere?
[17:22] <muxx> sure
[17:22] <muxx> just for binutils ?
[17:22] <daja77> yes
[17:22] <fake> muxx: mythtv needs qt, which needs x. 
[17:23] <muxx> it needs x libraries only
[17:24] <fake> muxx: mythbackend uses qt and qt mysql bindings. that's somewhat of a killer for embedding ;)
[17:25] <muxx> well... it is not exactly an embedded system. it currently runs (together with a frontend !) on a 64M Xbox
[17:25] Action: fake maintains the myth packages in rock
[17:25] <fake> what hardware do you target? soekris boxen?
[17:25] <muxx> it'll be an old PII laptop
[17:26] <fake> ah, ok. i was thinking set-top-box
[17:26] <muxx> no, this is for backend only
[17:26] <muxx> I think the Xbox will remain the frontend
[17:27] <fake> so you have a pcmcia tv card?
[17:27] <muxx> no, I currently use a USB DVB-T card plugged into the Xbox
[17:28] <fake> but that would then be handeled by the laptop, right?
[17:28] <muxx> yeah. the laptp has USB
[17:28] <fake> but... does it have USB2.0 ?
[17:28] <muxx> no. why ?
[17:28] <fake> isnt the data rate of DVB-T Mpeg too high for usb1 ?
[17:29] <fake> just a thought
[17:29] <muxx> of course not. usb 1.0 is almost 12mbps
[17:29] <muxx> and the MPEG2 stream is usually lower than 5
[17:29] <fake> *scratches head&
[17:29] <muxx> well, it worked for over a year somehow. 8)
[17:30] <fake> ok, i have been using DVB-S... there most streams have 15 mbps, iirc
[17:31] <muxx> afau, it's the max VBR
[17:31] <fake> ah, ok
[17:32] <muxx> the binutils log is at http://gw.muxx.spb.ru/img/binutils.txt
[17:33] <muxx> but 15mbps sounds too high for standard PAL/NTSC trasmissions
[17:33] <muxx> if the MPEG2 header says so, it does not mean that it is consistently like that
[17:34] <fake> muxx: that looks like a flex/yacc problem, indeed
[17:34] <fake> fake@localhost:~$ bison --version
[17:34] <fake> bison (GNU Bison) 2.1
[17:34] <fake> fake@localhost:~$ flex --version
[17:34] <fake> flex 2.5.31
[17:35] <muxx> I hate debian with its rotten packages
[17:35] <fake> did you install gawk?
[17:36] <muxx> I had it
[17:36] <muxx> GNU Awk 3.1.4
[17:36] <fake> so awk is a symlink to gawk? that's the next-most error on debian 
[17:36] <muxx> I thought rock required gawk
[17:37] <fake> muxx: yes, but some packages just call awk and assume it's gawk 8)
[17:37] <muxx> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 21 2005-10-14 13:19 /usr/bin/awk -> /etc/alternatives/awk
[17:38] <muxx> \/etc/alternatives/awk: symbolic link to `/usr/bin/gawk'
[17:38] <fake> muxx: also note that if you get 'file created outside basedir' errors, that once upon a time, debian's install-info perl script made copies of old versions of info pages to /var/something/backup
[17:38] <fake> muxx: i'm not sure wether it still does
[17:40] <muxx> does rock require awk at all ?
[17:40] <fake> muxx: yes. a few things use awk, for example the package queue sorting, or dependency resolution
[17:40] <fake> resolving
[17:40] <fake> that is
[17:41] <muxx> thank guys, we cracked it. it builds fine now
[17:42] <muxx> at least binutils
[17:42] <fake> muxx: i'll be here a little longer, in case more fails ;)
[17:42] <muxx> I upgraded flex
[17:43] <muxx> I wonder why configure did not catch it in the first place
[17:43] <daja77> because it is crap
[17:43] <muxx> %)
[17:43] <fake> *tadaa*
[17:43] <fake> ;)
[17:44] <muxx> are there other means of modifyting the package lists, apart from the curses UI ? a text file perhaps...
[17:44] <fake> muxx: the package selection sets can be altered easily
[17:44] <daja77> yes, you can create a template yourself
[17:44] <fake> muxx: see misc/pkgsel
[17:45] <muxx> any pointers on how ?
[17:45] <fake> muxx: while you're at it, replace linux and linux-source with linux=linux26 and linux=linux26-source
[17:45] <fake> muxx: take a look at the files in there
[17:45] <fake> muxx: it's really easy.
[17:45] <muxx> yeah, we already figured that out with daja77
[17:46] <daja77> :)
[17:46] <fake> muxx: regarding the 15Mbps: i think it was HDTV
[17:47] <muxx> HDTV -- makes sense. the Xbox is not powerful enough to decode HDTV anyway
[17:47] <muxx> and there's no HDTV on DVB-T yet
[17:47] <fake> neither was my box back then.
[17:47] <muxx> so now you are all HDTV-ready ? 8)
[17:47] <fake> no
[17:47] <fake> i don't have a hdtv-ready tv
[17:48] <fake> but then again, i don't watch that much tv anymore, anyways.
[17:48] <muxx> neither do I. I don't really understand all the fuss about HDTV. to appreciate you have to have a good large TV. to have a large TV you have to have a large house. 8)
[17:49] <muxx> and on a normal-sized TV there is not much difference
[17:49] <fake> watching hdtv-rips on the pc is nice, though ;)
[17:49] <muxx> yeah. but monitor is not TV
[17:49] <fake> ack
[17:52] <muxx> OT: I heard that recent versions of mythtv rely on openGL heavily. is that true ?
[17:57] <fake> recent as in 0.19 ?
[17:57] <muxx> if I remember correctly, CVS
[18:02] <fake> i haven't tried CVS/SVN
[18:02] <fake> maybe it's needed for the rewritten mythui...
[18:04] <muxx> I don't really know what have been happening for the last year. I built some CVS version then and forgot about it. it works beatifully
[18:04] <muxx> but I heard that there are many new features
[18:11] <fake> the addon packages are extracting...
[18:13] <muxx> fake: do you have Jabber/GoogleTalk account at all ?
[18:16] <fake> muxx: i have icq *yuck*
[18:17] <muxx> yuck indeed
[18:17] <fake> it's because of the non-geek friends
[18:17] <muxx> I use ICQ gateway on my jabber server
[18:17] <muxx> and get both
[18:17] <fake> i plan on setting that up 
[18:18] <muxx> do you mind me texting you questions from time to time ?
[18:18] <th> muxx: i did that too some time ago... now i use bitlbee. that's the better approach.
[18:18] <fake> not at all. though irc would be better - it's logged and google-indexed
[18:19] <muxx> yeah. it's just the fact that I don't use irc that much anymore. got used to XMPP and all...
[18:20] <muxx> th> I thought about it, but as I said I dont use IRC that much
[18:20] <th> muxx: i like irc for being logged and for being detachable through irssi+screen
[18:22] <muxx> th> well, IM is also logged (individually) and you can easily write offline and use conference rooms
[18:22] <muxx> I am in no way saying that IM is superior
[18:23] <muxx> I guess it depends on where you spend most of the tim
[18:23] <th> muxx: i use many IM and many IRC
[18:24] <th> and IM is logged in each client only.
[18:24] <muxx> th> I have everything in one client. several jabber accounts, ICQ and irc if I need to
[18:26] <th> muxx: same here.
[18:26] <th> muxx: and i can connect to it from any ssh-capable machine anywhere
[18:26] <muxx> th> but you use IRC client and I use Jabber client. 8)
[18:27] <th> muxx: correct
[18:27] <muxx> th> yeah, the benefits of the console interface are obvious
[18:28] <th> it's not "IRC" as it which i prefer over IM - i guess it's irssi by itself
[18:31] <th> first i wanted to use the jabber extension for irssi. but the authors did not continue development after starting to use bitlbee. so i started to use it as well.
[18:32] <muxx> I feel a bit unsecure when I have to depend on another server
[18:32] <muxx> now all I depend on is my own jabber server
[18:41] <th> well... i use my own irc server for the bitlbee connection and for internal communication of course
[18:41] <fake> we have a company-internal jabber server
[18:41] <th> muxx: but when you only want to use your own server with jabber then you can only talk to yourself or guys on your server
[18:41] <th> same here
[18:41] <th> so for #rocklinux i do connect to OPN
[18:41] <th> or for other folks not on my irc server i do the same
[18:41] <fake> freenet
[18:41] <fake> freenode
[18:41] <fake> sorry
[18:45] <muxx> no, it is not that I only want to use my own server. what I mean is that I don't want all my IM contacts stores on some server. if this server goes titsup, I'll loose all of them. I have control over my server, but if it fails completely I can use an alternative server and again have contact with my peers
[18:46] <muxx> my jabber server is of course connected to the distributed network of other jabber servers
[18:48] <th> "IM contacts stores on some server" that server is only "" for me. which i do trust.
[18:48] <th> so bitlbee is not a service but a software.
[18:48] <th> sort of a jabber/icq/aim/whatever client.
[18:49] <th> but that clients frontend is a irc server
[18:49] <muxx> aaah, got it now
[18:49] <muxx> I thought you were using their server
[18:49] <th> nope
[18:49] <th> their software only
[18:50] <fake> the addon packages are uploaded
[18:53] <fake> http://gems.rocklinux.org/repo/ROCK3/TRUNK-x86-pentium-mmx-32-crystal-addons/pkgs/
[18:57] <muxx> guys, how do I stop rock from building locales ? I could live with C
[18:58] <fake> muxx: there is a config option for that
[18:59] <fake> muxx: almost at the bottom of the Config screen
[18:59] <muxx> ok
[19:00] <muxx> ok, thanks a lot for all the help. I am off, bb
[19:25] <fake> someone is translating the Main Page to russian or so
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[00:00] --- Wed Aug  2 2006