-!- Irrsi  Log opened Mon Oct 06 00:00:45 2003
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[01:05] < Mike1> greetings
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[04:09] < rolla> re
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[08:19] < blindcoder> moin moin
[08:24] < mnemoc> moin blindcoder
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[09:26] < Davis> hey I need someones help really really badly
[09:26] < Davis> I am stuck on my project for my java class
[09:27] < Davis> anyone know a good java programmer or a java channel I can join
[09:33] -!- hopelessOwl [[email protected]] has joined #rocklinux
[09:33] < hopelessOwl> moin
[09:33] < Davis> hey are you good with java at all
[09:33] < Davis> or know where I can go to get help?
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[09:34] < hopelessOwl> o_O
[09:34] < hopelessOwl> hi Nebukadneza
[09:34] < Nebukadneza> moin hopelessOwl
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[09:41] < daja77> moin
[09:41] < hopelessOwl> hi daja77
[09:41] < daja77> hi owl
[09:44] < blindcoder> moin moin
[09:45] < hopelessOwl> hi blindy
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[11:28] < blindcoder> GAH! 10MB .patch for version tag >_<
[11:28] < blindcoder> hmm...
[11:28] < blindcoder> or is it?
[11:28] < deadOwl> GAH! company almost completely finished *rotfl*
[11:29]   deadOwl wants some wine and wodka and and and
[11:30] < blindcoder> I see... rev 1583 is not to be retrieved...
[11:49] < blindcoder> wow, I'm working with pointers for about 2 hours now, and still I have not produced a single segfault
[11:50] < deadOwl> congrats.
[11:50] < blindcoder> thank you very much *bows to audience*
[11:50] < deadOwl> hm.
[11:51]   deadOwl hopes that she doesn't have to pay for seeing blindcoder's not-segfaulting-messages
[11:53] < blindcoder> nah, today's presentation is free-as-in-beer :-)
[11:53] < deadOwl> kewl. thx. but when talking about alk - could you please give me some of it?
[11:54] < blindcoder> nah, no alcohol before noon
[11:54] < deadOwl> why not?
[11:54] < blindcoder> it makes lunch taste bad
[11:54] < deadOwl> which lunch?
[11:54] < deadOwl> ah. forgot. normal people eat stuff
[11:54] < blindcoder> yes
[11:56]   deadOwl np: eisregen - stirb laechelnd
[12:52]   blindcoder away: mv /dev/lunch /dev/mouth
[13:04]   blindcoder back
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[13:20] < th> mornin'
[13:21] < blindcoder> moin
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[13:37] < jsaw> re
[14:38] < rolla> re
[15:06] < deadOwl> remoin
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[15:23] < blindcoder> okay, now all I have to do is morph this into a live-cd
[15:46] < daja77> re
[15:52] < rolla> and then recompile iptables
[15:56] < daja77> hey rolla :)
[16:01]   blindcoder away: gym
[16:01] < rolla> re daja77
[16:02] < daja77> have a free minute?
[16:06] < rolla> sure
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[16:09] < Frea> whoops
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[16:15] < daja77> Freak!
[16:17] < Freak> what? I didnt do it..
[16:18] < daja77> stop dropping your k on my roof
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[16:37] < daja77> hola A-Tui
[16:40] < A-Tui> hola daja77
[16:40] < daja77> what's up in spain?
[16:41] < A-Tui> it's too cold
[16:41] < A-Tui> but at the moment all is ok
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[16:41] < daja77> :)
[16:43] < trekkie3k> hi
[16:43] < daja77> hi trekkie3k
[16:43] < A-Tui> hi trekkie3k
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[16:57]   A-Tui is away: Come Lacasitos.....!!!!!!
[16:57] < daja77> wb clifford
[16:57] < clifford> hi daja
[17:24] < esden> hi all
[17:25] < daja77> hi esden *hug*
[17:25] < esden> hi daja77 *hug*
[17:26] < daja77> :)
[17:48] < rolla> fake: how is it going?
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[17:49] < cchamilt> EHLO
[17:50] < daja77> HELO
[17:50] < daja77> protocol error ...
[17:50] < cchamilt> :)
[17:51] < cchamilt> which one starts?
[17:52] < daja77> dunno
[17:52] < blindcoder> hi hi and rehi
[17:52] < cchamilt> I think I should have been 'HELLO cchamilt'
[17:52] < cchamilt> hi
[17:52] < blindcoder> EHLO #rocklinux
[17:53] < blindcoder> 250-#rocklinux Hello blindcoder [Benjamin Schieder], leased to meet you
[17:53] < cchamilt> Hmm
[17:53] < blindcoder> followed by 250-* info messages
[17:53] < cchamilt> I prefer rent-to-own
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[17:54] < cchamilt> Anyone think on my RFC yesterday?
[17:54] < blindcoder> anyone got experience in creating live-cds witd ROCK?
[17:54] < cchamilt> Not 2.0
[17:54] < daja77> no but i have to do that soon ...
[17:55] < blindcoder> cchamilt: I didn't quite understand it...
[17:55] < cchamilt> Just copy bootdisk to start and change its config.in and build_stage* to suit.
[17:55] < blindcoder> what is it that you want to achieve?
[17:55] < blindcoder> cchamilt: hmm... sounds almost too easy :-)
[17:55] < cchamilt> Rock currently does not 'tell' building packages where to find other packages.
[17:56] < blindcoder> hmm
[17:56] < cchamilt> For live cd you should hack linuxrc to 'autoboot'
[17:56] < blindcoder> where would this be necessary?
[17:57] < blindcoder> cchamilt: yeah, that would be the easiest part... replacing linuxrc with a very small shell script :-)
[17:57] < cchamilt> I did it once and have some working linuxrcs if you want.
[17:57] < blindcoder> I just need to start X and run an app in it
[17:58] < cchamilt> Well then linuxrc should probably be thrown away and just do a hwscan first and then setup X someway.
[17:59] < blindcoder> yeah, that's why I thought using a bash-script
[17:59] < cchamilt> The thing about the RFC is that we can stick packages anywhere with no way to check cleanly if they are installed later.
[18:00] < cchamilt> Other than scanning /var/adm and devining? where the files you need are at/
[18:00] < blindcoder> [ -e /var/adm/flists/${pkg} ] ?
[18:00] < esden> hi cchamilt, blindcoder
[18:00] < blindcoder> hi esden !
[18:00] < blindcoder> esden: do you have a running X with opengl atm?
[18:00] < cchamilt> Yes, but is apache in /opt/apache or /usr
[18:01] < blindcoder> hmm... okay, now I see what you mean...
[18:01] < cchamilt> or is it in /usr/local for some reason ...
[18:01] < esden> grrr ... /me is too stupid to write a C++ wrapper for a C gtk widget >_<
[18:01] < esden> *sigh*
[18:01] < esden> blindcoder: no sorry
[18:01]   A-Tui is away: comprando el desayuno......
[18:01] < cchamilt> hi esden
[18:01] < blindcoder> esden: not even software gl?
[18:01] < esden> hmm ... that perhups
[18:01] < esden> why?
[18:02] < blindcoder> esden: run `glxgears` and you'll see.
[18:02] < blindcoder> esden: because I want to show you something
[18:02] < esden> 1184 frames in 5.0 seconds = 236.800 FPS
[18:02] < blindcoder> esden: good, so you have opengl, and not a bad one
[18:02] < esden> so it is running
[18:03] < esden> blindcoder: I am eager to see what ;)
[18:04] < esden> hmm ... that is not dri ... humm
[18:06] < blindcoder> cchamilt: I don't quite like the idea of putting >900 pkg_prefix variables into a parse-config file
[18:07] < cchamilt> me either that is why I RFC'd.
[18:07] < blindcoder> AFAIK setenv as implemented in glibc leaks memory (esden? I think you said that)
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[18:07] < blindcoder> and with 900 vars... OTOH, something like /var/adm/*/ isn't quite right, too...
[18:07] < cchamilt> I dont know of another solution
[18:07] < blindcoder> maybe some important packages should get such a variable
[18:08] < cchamilt> maybe only if it isn't /usr?
[18:08] < blindcoder> but, for example, no package needs to know where exactly kanatest or gnugo is installed
[18:08] < cchamilt> ie. if a package is not in /usr we make it unique and somehow find this out
[18:08] < blindcoder> that wouldn't be bad, something like ${pkg_prefix:-/usr}
[18:09] < cchamilt> well, the problem is we need a true standard as well.  We have packages mixing static checks for somethings
[18:09] < cchamilt> ie. php -> /opt/apache/sbin/apxs
[18:10] < blindcoder> mhm....
[18:11] < blindcoder> but also, as you can't really tell apache where it should install itself without meddling in the apache.conf file, it isn't really that much necessary.
[18:11] < blindcoder> If someone meddles with the inside of ROCK, s/he must expect to break it
[18:12] < cchamilt> Yes, I think the situation we have is not really thought out at all.
[18:12] < cchamilt> It looks quite, um, not well thought out....
[18:13] < cchamilt> Heck, maybe that is the answer...
[18:13] < blindcoder> well, if it was perfect, we wouldn't need 2.1...
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[18:14] < cchamilt> Build-Pkg should check for a predetermined pkg_$package_prefix and use that in building the package.
[18:14] < cchamilt> That way, a target can change it inside its parse-config.
[18:14] < cchamilt> That would make prefixes useful to start.
[18:16] < cchamilt> Then maybe manually mark a package special when its default is not /usr, or have Build-Pkg mark it.
[18:16] < cchamilt> Build-Pkg would then have a function (not shit loads of variables) that returns the prefix of a specified package.
[18:17] < blindcoder> or from within php just do a . $base/package/*/apache/apache.conf
[18:17] < cchamilt> So your package could call this function.
[18:17] < blindcoder> or something like that
[18:18] -!- clifford is now known as clifford_away
[18:18] < cchamilt> hmm, what would that give bc?
[18:19] < cchamilt> I don't think combining .confs would be clean would it?
[18:20] < blindcoder> hmm... yeah... just an idea :)
[18:20] < cchamilt> I think I can do the function version.
[18:21] < cchamilt> Wonder if rxr would accept it?
[18:21] < blindcoder> better ask him before you go to work
[18:22] < cchamilt> Yeah, I was hoping for comments on the maillist.
[18:22] < cchamilt> I think everyone is too busy for rock again...
[18:22] < blindcoder> well, at least here, the holidays are over
[18:22] < cchamilt> god, this is cyclic.
[18:23] < cchamilt> It was like 3 years ago when it was first discussed that we not have such a centralized organization just for such a thing...
[18:24] < cchamilt> Oh well, everything will be better when we get to 2.1 :)
[18:24] < blindcoder> that was before my time, so I don't need to remember :)
[18:24] < cchamilt> Oh, I have been bitching about rock for a long time now.
[18:25] < cchamilt> Its alway been six months from being really cool and useable to me.
[18:30] < esden> argh ... I once more forgot the number of the svn port >_<
[18:30] < esden> rxr: please put it somewhere ...
[18:42] < rxr> re
[18:42] < cchamilt> hi rxr
[18:42] < blindcoder> g'evening rxr
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[18:43] < rxr> yeah - me is quite busy with real live ...
[18:43] < rxr> but this should get better soon ...
[18:45] < cchamilt> rxr: What do you think about a function to return the prefix of a specified package?
[18:45] < esden> hi rxr
[18:45] < esden> rxr: could you please put the number of the svn port ?
[18:45] < esden> sorry for the plank
[18:47]   A-Tui is back (gone 00:45:29)
[18:47] < A-Tui> hi
[18:48] < cchamilt> damn
[18:48] < cchamilt> my mail relay is missing rocklinux.org again...
[18:48] < rxr> cchamilt: yes - this would be of help
[18:49] < cchamilt> I really should just fix my own server...
[18:49] < rxr> esden: grep subversion /etc/services
[18:49] < rxr> esden: 3690
[18:49] < cchamilt> rxr:I will go implement a patch for prefixes right now if you want.
[18:50] < rxr> well after all the destabelizing patches in the last months - I'm really sceptic about feature additions right now - and they will only get in after a in-depths review
[18:50] < cchamilt> ROCK_PKG_$pkg_PREFIX or pkg_$pkg_prefix?
[18:50] < rxr> otherwise we will not get any 2.0.0-final anytime ...
[18:51] < rxr> cchamilt: keep in mind that this operation must be cheap - further slow-downs in the build process are not acceptable (IMHO)
[18:51] < cchamilt> Well I can make the patch and you can decide, it shouldn't break things...
[18:51] < cchamilt> Yeah, it should be really cheap.  For most builds it well only check that $prefix==/usr and go on.
[18:52] < cchamilt> It will only search for a prefix on call of the function to retrieve it. If it isn't specified, /usr is returned.
[18:53] < cchamilt> packages only write to the prefix file if $prefix!=/usr (after the conditional check)
[18:54] < cchamilt> Where should I store prefixes since it wont be a parse-config script?
[18:54] < esden> rxr: that is only in the newest services ...
[18:54] < esden> not in the older ones
[18:55]   esden goes for food
[18:57] < rxr> cchamilt: /var/adm/parse-config/
[18:58] < cchamilt> Really?  Then the vars will be visible in build (not hidden in a function) right?
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[18:59] < deadOwl> moin
[19:00] < cchamilt> living dead girl?!
[19:01] < deadOwl> living and feeling the pain of life
[19:02] < rxr> cchamilt: yes - I think the easiest and most "portable" way is just to store it a file there if it is != usr and add a function that returns the var if defined and "usr" or nothing otherwise ... ?!?
[19:03] < cchamilt> Its OK with me, I will also store them in ROCK_* var format - not that pkg_* would cause collisions...
[19:04] < cchamilt> I was just worried about having lots of vars in parse-config, or people referring to the vars directly.
[19:09] < rxr> hm - I would not introduce a 2nd format in that dir - but it is not me - propose it on the list - and I think Clifford will also have some enlighting comments ...
[19:10] < cchamilt> Either way it is one little thing.
[19:10] < rxr> sure - I just wanted to mention it - but maybe clifford has a totally different idea ...
[19:16] < cchamilt> brb
[19:24] < blindcoder> hrm?
[19:24] < blindcoder> gcc3 fails with "flistdel: libiberty should not install"
[19:24] < blindcoder> brb, have to look into that
[19:47] < esden> re
[19:47] < esden> blindcoder: lvp is not xinerama aware ;)
[19:47] < esden> fix it ;)
[19:48] < blindcoder> esden: I don't plan on using xinerame in it
[19:49] < cchamilt> hmm, having trouble manip vars...
[19:50] < esden> ohh why ... menu on one head and film on the other ;)
[19:50] < esden> that would be nice ;)
[19:50] < cchamilt> how do you get to variable named inside another variable?
[19:51] < cchamilt> $$var?
[19:52] < cchamilt> nope
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[19:54] < esden> cchamilt: eval echo \$$var
[19:55] < cchamilt> danka
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[20:27]   esden off
[20:27] < esden> cu
[20:27] < rxr> cu all later
[20:27] < daja77> cu rxr, esden
[20:27]   rxr is in some real life problem now (again)
[20:29] < Freak> rxr: anything we could help you with?
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[20:52] < deadOwl> rxr: huh?
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[22:00] < cchamilt> wee my patches made it through!
[22:02] < tcr> heyha cchamilt, whats up
[22:02] < cchamilt> destroying rock
[22:02] < rolla> ?
[22:03] < cchamilt> no just making changes that should have been
[22:04] < cchamilt> I have a butt load of packages and patches waiting on other things being implemented.
[22:04] < cchamilt> hopefully the package thing will get used.
[22:04] < tcr> moin rolla
[22:04] < cchamilt> tcr: has tla fixed its whitespace filename handling problem?
[22:05] < tcr> wait, I'm watching news on tv now
[22:05] < cchamilt> heh
[22:06] < cchamilt> who here wants wants regex based file selection in `mine -i`?
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[22:21] < tcr> cchamilt, (whitespaces and tla:) no it isn't yet. rationale is that a change would require some more or less major changes on code and changeset format which is quite nasty. Besides there're plenty of other things to do and the whitespace thingy hasn't been pushed from other people that much (though I think Tom may very likely change his mind concerning the priority of this feature once he gets a check with some $$$ on it ;))
[22:21] < tcr> cchamilt, (file selection and mine:) damn! not regexp but glob based selection has been though up by blindcoder and me some time ago, I actually wanted to code it but, gee, I forgot about it
[22:21] < tcr> s,though,thought,
[22:22] < tcr> wtf
[22:22] < cchamilt> Well I was just thinking that regex select or unselect would be easy.
[22:22] < cchamilt> I am looking at sed though and backing off of that statement.
[22:22] < tcr> mine is written in C after all
[22:23] < daja77> erh you can use regex in statement mine -i $regex, no?
[22:23] < cchamilt> I did do a simple string pattern match to optionally remove /doc/ /man/ /info/ and *.a and *.h from cli.
[22:24] < cchamilt> Clifford never replied to my patch...
[22:24] < tcr> daja77, ?
[22:24] < cchamilt> daja77?
[22:25] < cchamilt> My patch just checked if a file matched one of the patterns and skipped installing it if it did.
[22:25] < tcr> cchamilt, well blindcoder and me came to the conclusion that it would be best to add an option which takes a filename, and this file can contain lines like *.a etc
[22:25] < tcr> cchamilt, you sent it to the list?
[22:25] < daja77> maybe I confused sth
[22:26] < cchamilt> just clifford, I didn't test it well. Nor did I think it that useful at the time.
[22:26] < cchamilt> We are talking about selectively installing files from a package.
[22:27] < daja77> ah k. got it
[22:27] < cchamilt> Such as saying install any file that is /*.a/ or skip any file /*.a/.  Or in tcr's idea just *.a.
[22:28] < cchamilt> Globs would be fine I think too.
[22:28] < cchamilt> Any glob libraries or do we just make hand strstr matches?
[22:28] < tcr> well, we had some reason why the globs specified in that file are exclusive instead of inclusive. I'd have to rethink about that again, and I don't have time atm. Just FYI
[22:29] < cchamilt> I could implement (in my head) single * matches now.  Just *bob*bob* I couldn't
[22:29] < tcr> cchamilt, man 3 glob
[22:29] < cchamilt> sweet
[22:29] < cchamilt> this linux thing rulz
[22:30] < tcr> cchamilt, well it's POSIX according to "conforming to" :)
[22:33] < cchamilt> hmm, it needs to get info from opendir
[22:34] < cchamilt> If we did glob, it would need to be implemented separate from the filesystem (unless we install files and then delete them)
[22:35] -!- Lorini [[email protected]] has left #rocklinux ("Angels are bright still, though the brightest fell.")
[22:35] < cchamilt> mine has a list of files with names relative to root that it parses in a loop.
[22:35] < cchamilt> My patch just did conditional string searches.
[22:37] < tcr> well, we can still borrow code or when you look at GLOB_ALTDIRFUNC could write some functions which emulates filesystem access
[22:37] < cchamilt> heck I could do exec seds or greps, but I doubt anyone would think that smart.
[22:38] < cchamilt> Possible
[22:42] < deadOwl> guys - do you have by accident a idea for my final-exam's project? (work-time should be about 35-70 hours)
[22:43] < blindcoder> deadOwl: what about "Programming an interface for OS-independent configuration of ROCK Linux"?
[22:44] < deadOwl> blindcoder: *lol* nah
[22:44] < blindcoder> and forget the 35-70 hours, that's what documentation is for
[22:44] < blindcoder> deadOwl: you asked for a project, I gave you one. I have seen worse things been done...
[22:44] < deadOwl> e.g.?
[22:44] < cchamilt> That is a short project, especially for college.
[22:44] < blindcoder> with even worse titles *shrug*
[22:45] < cchamilt> That would be 1000 lines of code max.
[22:45] < blindcoder> deadOwl: "Setting up a Fileserver using license-fee-free software and redundand hardware inclunive a restore-concept"
[22:45] < blindcoder> cchamilt: 500 loc PHP
[22:45] < deadOwl> anwendungsentwicklung
[22:46] < blindcoder> s/Setting up/Intergrating/
[22:46] < cchamilt> what language should it be in?
[22:46] < deadOwl> c++
[22:46] < deadOwl> and it must be under windows
[22:46] < blindcoder> sucks
[22:46] < cchamilt> 200loc
[22:47] < cchamilt> don't do anything to low level and if you do use mfc, don't do anything not in the examples...
[22:48] < deadOwl> why?
[22:48] < blindcoder> because the people judging your work won't understand it
[22:48] < daja77> lol
[22:48] < deadOwl> why are they are sitting there, then?
[22:49] < blindcoder> because they have some kind of degree and a beard
[22:49] < cchamilt> visual c is not exactly a well built platform.  At the lowlevel, there are many wrongly documented things and threads are still bitchy.
[22:49] < deadOwl> hmm
[22:50] < cchamilt> mfc seems cool until you need it to do something similar to what you have seen and then spend a week trying to find out why you can't.
[22:50] < deadOwl> c# is even more horrible, then
[22:50] < daja77> hehe exactly what i thought about it
[22:50] < cchamilt> mfc is actually much crappier than gtk which should give you reference.
[22:51] < cchamilt> mfc is a flaky c++ wrapper to badly documented c.
[22:51] < cchamilt> Jocelyn works on windows these days, pretty much moved everything to cygwin.
[22:52] < daja77> lol /me making a quote of this
[22:53] < cchamilt> When she hooks up to other peoples' mfc code, she has to clean their code, but it works well.
[22:57] < cchamilt> I havent touched it in about two years (studio 6.0), but the new stuff isn't new according to Jocelyn.
[22:59] -!- A-Tui [[email protected]] has quit ("I like core dumps")
[23:07]   blindcoder -> bed
[23:08] < daja77> n8 blindy
[23:09] < deadOwl> gn8 blindy
[23:10] < tcr> cchamilt, heh you know what? we don't need glob(3) as there's fnmatch(3) :)
[23:13] < cchamilt> ok
[23:13] < cchamilt> That looks interesting.
[23:15] < cchamilt> OK, now to use it in mine.  I guess a multiple call cli flag would be best - ie.   -x */doc/*  -x *.a
[23:15] < cchamilt> mines getopt sucks, but I will work on that.
[23:18] < cchamilt> g and x arent taken, maybe do both inclusive and exclusive?
[23:18] < tcr> Hmm, I can give you a hand if you need (I feel a bit frustated that I forgot about this :/)
[23:19] < cchamilt> I did it once before and it was simple. - overload the cli switch, add some annoying globals, and then the search conditions in the loop.
[23:20] < tcr> Ok, just give a minute so that I can try to remember the issue with inclusive
[23:23] < cchamilt> OK, I am tired.  Maybe I will work on this tomorrow anyway.
[23:24] < tcr> Yeah me too :) And I don't think I can remember anyway. So it doesn't seem to be of high value
[23:24] < tcr> Gotta go. Have to wake up early
[23:24] < tcr> gn8 all
[23:24] < cchamilt> OK, n8
[23:24] -!- tcr [[email protected]] has quit ("Leaving")
[23:29] < deadOwl> <- sleeping
[23:29] < deadOwl> gn8
[23:46] < daja77> n8 you all
-!- Irrsi  Log closed Tue Oct 07 00:00:03 2003